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 25 and Bankrupt (I need guidance)

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Artus
post Aug 7 2014, 05:16 PM

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NeedGuidance, your business doesn't sound like a Sdn. Bhd. or a PLT, or else if somebody sued the company, nothing would happen to the directors because of limited liability protection.

Many people made the wrong mistake of setting up their businesses as sole-proprietorships or partnerships instead of Sdn. Bhd. to save money, but if get sued, all ther partners would be exposed without limitation of liability.

Nowadays there is a far cheaper option to the expensive Sdn. Bhd. - the Perkongsian Liabilti Terhad (PLT), which have all the advantages of a Sdn. Bhd. minus all the disadvantages.

If your business was a Sdn. Bhd., the only reason I can think of that you can suffer losses personally is probably you have signed some kind of personal guarantee.


cdspins
post Aug 7 2014, 05:18 PM

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It is 60k, it is still workable, be tough, just crawl out of it. If you save RM500 a month, it will take you 10 years. Try 1k and it will take approximately 5 years.
Just postpone your dream of studying abroad for 5 years... you can still travel by the age of 30.
Have seen young adult like you go through hell, eating only bread on weekday, and get proper meal only on weekend in order just to save money for their goals. I am sure if you have the will, you can make it too. Be tough, be strong
mrlonely78
post Aug 7 2014, 05:19 PM

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QUOTE(Fadzy Kamaruddin @ Aug 7 2014, 05:08 PM)
I received notice of bankruptcy 2 months back. Luckily i managed to deal something with AKPK. Once declared bankrupt AKPK cant help u anymore. Go straightaway to JIM. Dont worry, it wont harm you. I met a guy who went bankrupt, he said everything was fine. He can go overseas. JIM will ask u to pay rm3000 per year as deposit if you want to go abroad. after cleared from bankruptcy they will return the money back lump sum.
Dont worry about bank ppl coming asking for money. Bankruptcy is made for the purpose to protect you from debtors. That is why for big businessmen, bankruptcy is done purposely, just to get rid of financial burdens.  blush.gif
*
this is correct, however, jim will question u this, if u can only make payment of rm50 a month to them when u bankrupt, how come u can pay 3000 to jim for overseas trip clearance ... and they will not allowed if its for holiday ... only for business case they allowed, and u need to have the letter from the company you work for also for this clearance ..


thanks.
christ86
post Aug 7 2014, 05:34 PM

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happened so often.... that's why u see so many ppl unable to success with such caliber.
Your current income. Make it cold cash n keep it safe under your other family name or cold cash under the bed.
Cut down your expenses to the max.
Don't bother paying the amount owed unless you have suffice amount to negotiate & fully settle it.
Like one of the guy said. Get married is your quick buck

but truth is without that, your only gateway is to earn more & settle it.
no shortcuts.
challenging part is , you will need someone you really can trust to ensure your future bucks are being safely securely saved.
even if you are enthusiast now to do mlm, part time, insurance, investment all at the same time. most of the time it can only be done n paid directly to you not by cash.

Suggest you find someone you can trust. Use his/her name & start earning your way out. At the same time if it's a he, he might just say i will save you.
Fadzy Kamaruddin
post Aug 7 2014, 05:36 PM

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QUOTE(mrlonely78 @ Aug 7 2014, 05:19 PM)
this is correct, however, jim will question u this, if u can only make payment of rm50 a month to them when u bankrupt, how come u can pay 3000 to jim for overseas trip clearance ... and they will not allowed if its for holiday ... only for business case they allowed, and u need to have the letter from the company you work for also for this clearance ..
thanks.
*
some ppl, like me, have to go overseas to earn my gaji. unsure.gif that is why i tried my best to avoid bankruptcy. hehe but do not be worried. and dont run from your problem.
TSNeedGuidance
post Aug 7 2014, 06:27 PM

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QUOTE(-ZeN- @ Aug 7 2014, 03:54 PM)
Don't mind me asking, trying to help ask some info for you from my insolvency friend.
1. How much is the personal loan amount that is unpaid?
2. The company was Sdn Bhd?
3. Are you only the director and shareholder also?
4. Do you borrow any money from the company itself?
*
I'm sorry I couldn't be more precise when it comes to the exact amount of loans and the amount that cause the company to be declared as bankrupt.

1. Personal loan is below 30k, but with the outstanding penalties and interest, up to now I couldn't give you the exact amount. This personal loan was taken for business investment, more to buy stuff for the company and what not.
2. Its Enterprise
3. Our parents named me and my brother (aged 24) as the directors. And yes he's declared bankrupt too, dropped out of college and is now selling burger to feed the whole family (my parents are helping him with the burger business).
4. No I don't borrow any money from the company.
TSNeedGuidance
post Aug 7 2014, 06:31 PM

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QUOTE(TOMEI-R @ Aug 7 2014, 04:08 PM)
If your debt is more than Rm30k, the amount is enough for the other party to sue you for bankruptcy. While I do pity you for it is your family who dragged you into this, I can say that there is no other way you can escape this predicament. What you can do right now is to ask your company to pay the salary either by cash or to some other people's account and you wont be able to solicit any loans or credit cards under your name. Your banks accounts will be frozen too and you will get constant harrassment from your debtors to recover their money.
*
Yes the debt is more than RM30k. The other party is an individual, and was a client of the company. Perhaps their motive is to bring my parents down (I honestly dont have the details as what really happened between them), but unfortunately the company was under mine and my brother's name.

Yes, my employer is giving me cash cheque for my monthly salary, as I've made them aware of my current financial situation.

Yes, I only realized that I was declared bankrupt when I found out all my bank accounts went frozen.. sad.gif
TSNeedGuidance
post Aug 7 2014, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(TOMEI-R @ Aug 7 2014, 04:13 PM)
AKPK is only for cases for credit cards, personal loans or car loans which are from financial institutions. TS is being sued by a debtor regarding previous business dealings. Totally different issue here.

Btw, for those thinking to going to AKPK, please be aware that most banks will internally blacklist you when they check your CCRIS/CTOS and there is an AKPK note there.
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Thank you for the info, I've checked my CTOS and yes, thats where I officially know that I'm declared as bankrupt..
TSNeedGuidance
post Aug 7 2014, 06:35 PM

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QUOTE(tabletman @ Aug 7 2014, 04:15 PM)
Find out how much you owed? If it is not too much just pay in installment until finish. But meanwhile you will have to say goodbye to your car. Only bus for you I am afraid.
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Even if I could pay them via monthly installment, it'd be way too long.. And thats the reason why I havent visited JIM yet, I'm just afraid I couldn't continue to use my car.

My work requires to travel here and there a lot..
simonlws
post Aug 7 2014, 06:39 PM

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You should just go to the Insolvency. Its not so bad at all. Just be humble but got to bear with the officer there. Sometimes they are just so careless.

You still can open a bank account, work and even travel after you place some deposit and payments.
They will restructure and deduct 10% of your salary monthly until to a time you proof to them that with the continuity deducts still cannot replay the loan, after five years you can apply for discharged.

But it is not all rosy simply because you now have to deal with the insolvency officer which some are just hopeless.

Just my two cents.


QUOTE(NeedGuidance @ Aug 7 2014, 11:25 AM)

I'm 25 years old and I'm bankrupt.

No, it isn’t because I owe the bank with credit cards debt or personal loan.

Here’s a backstory. I was 21 when my parents decided to put my name as one of the directors for their companies. They also took some personal loan from a bank to push business (invest in projects, events etc). By 23, I had a company under my name, loans under the company’s name and personal loan under my name.

By 24, the business went down extremely bad. No more clients. The worst downturn was when the company was legally sued by one of their clients. Without a black and white evidence from our side (my parents were naive when it comes to this, they never expected this kind of unfortunate event would ever happen to their business) we lost the case. With business going extremely bad, we barely had any money to pay for a better lawyer.
Take note that when all of this happened, I was just a student who is trying her best to finish her degree with honour. I wasn't directly involved in any of my parents’ business matter nor do I get to enjoy the benefit of being one for the director.

The legal damage was so huge, there’s no way that our family could pay. I just graduated from my college degree and started my career with only RM2500 pay per month. The legal damage was about RM60k. This doesn’t include the personal loan that was under my name that was left unpaid. Business wasn’t getting any better; my brother had to drop out of college, and started his own burger stall for a living.

My family had to move to my parent's kampung since living in the city is just too expensive, living me behind as I chose to stay and continue working at my current company. I barely have any savings now; I couldn’t even afford to get any insurance. I was living from paycheque to paycheque when I found out a few months ago my bank accounts went frozen due to direct order from the insolvency. That’s when I found out I am officially bankrupt.

I’m 25, never had any credit card or student loan. Personal loan was made by parents (with my consent of course, but I was too naive to figure what were the risks), and a business legal matter that I wasn’t even a part of (except for the fact that my name was listed as one of the directors).

I’ve talked to my parents about this but they asked me to give them some time to handle it even it is clear that we are basically living in poverty and survive from what they could get from the burger stall business (their business just went down the drain and new project is almost non-existence). Part of me wanted to go to insolvency and discuss what could be done, how do I get out of this. But part of me knew I could barely pay back with the amount I earn monthly and all my other financial commitments (car loan, house rent, groceries, gas, bills)

I just don’t know what to do, all I want is to clear my name but it wasn’t even my “fault” in the first place that made me fall into this situation.

With so much humility, I ask for some financial guidance and advice on how do I get out of this.
My dream was to really continue my master degree abroad (as the course I'm planning to take isn't in the country) but with my current situation, it looks like its close to impossible.

Thank you for any advise and I'm sorry for the long post.
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simonlws
post Aug 7 2014, 06:41 PM

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As long as you car is under installment and the bank doesn't tarik and you are paying it promptly. No problem at all.
Only thing is that your car is fully paid, then they will want to sell your car to repay but can talk to them because nowadays, without a car how to cari makan?

QUOTE(NeedGuidance @ Aug 7 2014, 05:35 PM)
Even if I could pay them via monthly installment, it'd be way too long.. And thats the reason why I havent visited JIM yet, I'm just afraid I couldn't continue to use my car.

My work requires to travel here and there a lot..
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evinkar
post Aug 7 2014, 06:43 PM

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What type of car; Year; Monthly commitment?

Maybe I interested.
TSNeedGuidance
post Aug 7 2014, 06:43 PM

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QUOTE(mrlonely78 @ Aug 7 2014, 04:19 PM)
when you bankrupt; this will happen.

1) total assets under your name cant be more than rm5k, if got, it will be taken away by the bank soon. example the car, house etc.
2) once you bankrupt, you cant nego with the bank, as bank cannot accept any payment directly from you.
3) u need to see the jim, meet the officer in charge, report your income and expenses, and prepare to pay monthly payment as small as rm50 to them on monthly basis.
4) whatever bank account u have, will be freeze, they will give u 1 letter for u to open the bank account, on which this bank account can be use for salary payment etc, but insolvency will instruct the bank to deduct the money to pay to them on monthly basis.

so, its either;

1) solve it using full payment to jim, and jim will get a court order to release u if the banks all agree with the payment.
2) solve it by monthly payment paid until certain stage, and try to appeal for release, then banks still need to agree on this.

if the debts is under 2 name, try to clear the account using the other name, by paying direct to the bank on the nego amount as full settlement, then u get court order to release u. make sure the bank stated in the full settlement letter that your name will also be clear from this account.

i am bankruptcy before, same as u, due to my parents, but i got released after make full settlement with the bank under my other join name in the account, then get jim to get court order for release.

now 2 years free from my bankcruptcy status and started to live carefully when it comes to money and loan ...
*
Thank you so much from your insights and telling us your experience.

I'm afraid they wouldn't take my care soon, by I'm still obligated to continue with my hire purchase? Plus I really need the car, since my job require me to travel a lot in the city.. Using the public transportation will only deteriorate my work productivity.. Eventhough, yes, I've been thinking on letting go of the car..

There's no way our family could get it clear in full payment. Its just impossible, especially with our current situation. The other director for the company is my brother and yes, he's declared as bankrupt too. But he's living with my parents now and flipping burger to survive. We do have many family relatives, but under some circumstances, I don't think I would bring them into this matter, even if I would, I think none of them could do anything about this..

Do let me know if you have any other tips. What else can I do, and what to expect when I go for a visit to JIM..

Thank you so much again..
davinz18
post Aug 7 2014, 06:45 PM

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QUOTE(Fadzy Kamaruddin @ Aug 7 2014, 05:08 PM)
I received notice of bankruptcy 2 months back. Luckily i managed to deal something with AKPK. Once declared bankrupt AKPK cant help u anymore. Go straightaway to JIM. Dont worry, it wont harm you. I met a guy who went bankrupt, he said everything was fine. He can go overseas. JIM will ask u to pay rm3000 per year as deposit if you want to go abroad. after cleared from bankruptcy they will return the money back lump sum.
Dont worry about bank ppl coming asking for money. Bankruptcy is made for the purpose to protect you from debtors. That is why for big businessmen, bankruptcy is done purposely, just to get rid of financial burdens.  blush.gif
*
really? shakehead.gif
simonlws
post Aug 7 2014, 06:45 PM

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Correction, the RM3000/= they will treat it as part of your repayment. They won't pay you back. Only the guarantee fee of RM1,000/= paid by your guarantor can be refunded.

Ya one more thing, once you fully settle your outstanding, you still need to pay them, if not mistaken 10% fees before you can be discharged.



QUOTE(mrlonely78 @ Aug 7 2014, 04:19 PM)
this is correct, however, jim will question u this, if u can only make payment of rm50 a month to them when u bankrupt, how come u can pay 3000 to jim for overseas trip clearance ... and they will not allowed if its for holiday ... only for business case they allowed, and u need to have the letter from the company you work for also for this clearance ..
thanks.
*
TSNeedGuidance
post Aug 7 2014, 06:45 PM

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QUOTE(TOMEI-R @ Aug 7 2014, 04:23 PM)
Btw TS, the only way right now for you now would be to meet your debtors and the financial institution your personal loan is from and negotiate how to settle this. You could offer them to settle your debts by paying them back in monthly installments. If they are reluctant, tell them that you wont be able to pay them either. By suing you also they are incurring extra costs. So ask them to weigh the pros and cons and work out an amicable solution.
*
It's an individual that was previously my parent's client, he sued the company. Yet, it costs mine and my brother's name. I believe we can't directly nego and pay them directly, since I've already been declared. So I still need to go to JIM, no other option, tell me if I'm wrong..
TSNeedGuidance
post Aug 7 2014, 06:48 PM

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QUOTE(tabletman @ Aug 7 2014, 04:24 PM)
If you are already bankcrupt, it may come to a point that all your assets are seized and sold off. If that happens, try to get a relative to get your a car (under his name), while you promise to pay in installment. But the amount you can afford might be small as you also need to pay back the other debts.
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Getting a relative to get my car is just a huge favour to ask and none of my close relative could help. This has tainted my family's image enough between our relatives. If I could, I would want settle this without bringing any other family members into it..
TSNeedGuidance
post Aug 7 2014, 06:56 PM

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QUOTE(champu @ Aug 7 2014, 04:45 PM)
Where are you renting room right now? And what are your expenses for your car? i.e. petrol, maintenance,time to travel?

Consider moving closer to where you work, that way you won't have to rely on your car to transport you around. Assuming you work in Klang Valley, the public transport would be your best bet.

Since your car is your only tangible value, have a relative or someone you know will help to buy it off if possible (i'm aware it's bought under the company)

Perhaps you can consider one of these two things;

1) speak to your CFO to see if there is any other assignment that can earn you extra income (if not within the organisation, other companies may be able to offer something on the side. CFO's would know where to help you look)

2) Depending on whether your current status is with the employment dept (i.e. bankrupt), try sourcing for a higher paying job
Lastly, talk to AKPK. Any one of the consultants should be able to guide you on where you can go from there.
*
Thank you so much for replying.

I've considered letting my car go but unfortunately I really need them as my work requires me to travel here and there a lot.

Yes I'm currently looking into better offer elsewhere. Yet I'm still in the process of blasting my CV around.
I'll try to speak to my CFO and see if he could give me any advice on this (eventhough he could be a cranky man sometimes, nevertheless, wish me a luck!)

And based on from many replies, I guess there's nothing AKPK can do, my next step is I should be seeing JIM..
Fadzy Kamaruddin
post Aug 7 2014, 07:24 PM

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QUOTE(davinz18 @ Aug 7 2014, 06:45 PM)
really? shakehead.gif
*
Really. Go study on bankruptcy. U'll be surprised.

QUOTE(simonlws @ Aug 7 2014, 06:45 PM)
Correction, the RM3000/= they will treat it as part of your repayment. They won't pay you back. Only the guarantee fee of RM1,000/= paid by your guarantor can be refunded.

Ya one more thing, once you fully settle your outstanding, you still need to pay them, if not mistaken 10% fees before you can be discharged.
*
My friend got back all the deposit money. Totalling to 30k. Maybe different ppl different case. wink.gif
cybpsych
post Aug 7 2014, 07:31 PM

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TS, though u wouldnt want to enlist help from your relatives, probably you should reconsider that.

bad or worse, they are the one that can help, to some extent.

regardless of family face or whther they will help or not, just disclose your issues to them.

before doing do, 1st step is to go to JIM. if your brother is available, bring him along to testify as well. if your parents are OK, bring them as well.

dont know JIM's processes, just wondering if it can help you out if your parents willingly to admit their issues.

best wishes.

p/s: get a decent, cheapest car, if possible.

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