Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 25 and Bankrupt (I need guidance)

views
     
Artus
post Aug 7 2014, 05:16 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,985 posts

Joined: Jun 2010
NeedGuidance, your business doesn't sound like a Sdn. Bhd. or a PLT, or else if somebody sued the company, nothing would happen to the directors because of limited liability protection.

Many people made the wrong mistake of setting up their businesses as sole-proprietorships or partnerships instead of Sdn. Bhd. to save money, but if get sued, all ther partners would be exposed without limitation of liability.

Nowadays there is a far cheaper option to the expensive Sdn. Bhd. - the Perkongsian Liabilti Terhad (PLT), which have all the advantages of a Sdn. Bhd. minus all the disadvantages.

If your business was a Sdn. Bhd., the only reason I can think of that you can suffer losses personally is probably you have signed some kind of personal guarantee.


Artus
post Aug 7 2014, 08:53 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,985 posts

Joined: Jun 2010
QUOTE(NeedGuidance @ Aug 7 2014, 06:27 PM)
I'm sorry I couldn't be more precise when it comes to the exact amount of loans and the amount that cause the company to be declared as bankrupt.

1. Personal loan is below 30k, but with the outstanding penalties and interest, up to now I couldn't give you the exact amount. This personal loan was taken for business investment, more to buy stuff for the company and what not.
2. Its Enterprise
3. Our parents named me and my brother (aged 24) as the directors. And yes he's declared bankrupt too, dropped out of college and is now selling burger to feed the whole family (my parents are helping him with the burger business).
4. No I don't borrow any money from the company.
*
As I had suspected, your business was not registered as a Sdn. Bhd., or else you would have avoided personal liability and the eventual bankruptcy.

From your description, it looks like your business was registered as an ordinary partnership, with you and your brother named as partners (not directors). This meant that both you and your brother had no limited liability protection.

Maybe this is a bit of a late advice for you, your parents should have just registered a sole proprietorship with either you or your brother as the sole owner, instead of a partnership, which requires a minimum of 2 partners, so that only one person could have ended up in financial ruins.

Of course, the best way was to register a Sdn. Bhd. or a PLT, which could have prevented the whole disaster in the first place.

Anyway, legally, your brother cannot own a business and also cannot work for any spouse, children and relative. So, you better know what to do about the burger stall.


Artus
post Aug 7 2014, 10:46 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,985 posts

Joined: Jun 2010
QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Aug 7 2014, 09:41 PM)
Does it mean if it is a sdn bhd..  If the company bankrupt,  the directors wont be consider bankrupt?

Sorry noob here..
*
Normally, the directors of a Sdn. Bhd. would not be liable for any debts of the company.

But they can be liable if there is an element of dishonesty. For example, if you knew your company is insolvent but you convinced a supplier to supply goods to your company even though you knew that the suppliers won't get paid, you are personally liable to pay for the debt.


Artus
post Aug 7 2014, 10:54 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,985 posts

Joined: Jun 2010
QUOTE(davinz18 @ Aug 7 2014, 09:48 PM)
if I'm not mistaken, Perkongsian Liabiliti Terhad (PLT) juz 1-2 years only got in Malaysia. TS parents biz reg already longer than that. If that time got PLT, sure tis problem would have.
*
Yes, PLT is still considered a fairly new business structure. Of course, the PLT would not have been an option back then for TS.

But many would still choose to register sole proprietorships and ordinary partnerships today because operating a Sdn. Bhd. is costly. I think this is because accountants and secretaries have a vested interest not to tell clients about PLT because PLTs do not need secretaries or auditors, so no need to pay thousands of ringgits in audit and secretarial fees every year.


Artus
post Aug 7 2014, 11:09 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,985 posts

Joined: Jun 2010
QUOTE(NeedGuidance @ Aug 7 2014, 10:05 PM)
Thank you, I just learn about the whole Sdn Bhd & PLT here for you and from other replies. Really opened up my mind about this.

And you caught me when you say, legally my brother shouldn't do any business. Even if its just burger stall..?  sad.gif
*
Yes, what your brother is doing should be considered illegal because he is a bankrupt. I suppose your father was probably also in the same position back then by working for a company owned by both of you because he was a bankrupt. If someone makes a complain to the Insolvency Dept or if the dept found out about it, somebody could be charged.

You better figure out what to do.


Artus
post Aug 7 2014, 11:26 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,985 posts

Joined: Jun 2010
QUOTE(yuen1985 @ Aug 7 2014, 11:01 PM)
If possible, try don't declare bankruptcy..as for your existing personal loan..will suggest you go to AKPK as soon as possible..not sure about company loan and hope others can guide u here..just don't give up and all the best!
*
Pay attention lah. TS already officially a bankrupt. So no AKPK lah.
Artus
post Aug 7 2014, 11:53 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,985 posts

Joined: Jun 2010
QUOTE(Hapeng @ Aug 7 2014, 11:47 PM)
so TS, can you confirm if its is a Sdn Bhd?
*
Didn't you read her reply earlier that the business was registered as an enterprise?


Artus
post Aug 8 2014, 04:14 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,985 posts

Joined: Jun 2010
QUOTE(mrlonely78 @ Aug 8 2014, 11:55 AM)
ok here is my story..

i graduated on 2001, so after that, i help my parents refinance house, so my name become the main loaner while my mom as 2nd name.

in 2004, they stop servicing the loan, that time, the bank is southern bank. then southern bank bought by bbmb (bumiputra commerce), then to cimb.

so during this time, i dont know about this, even at 2009, i still can get housing loan on my own and 2010 a credit card on my own.

then i think end 2010, i try to get personal loan, so during this time, suddenly bank reject the application. than only i know about this unpaid loan on the property.

so i go to bank negara and print my ccris, and contact the bank and meet the offcer. i try to nego for them to allow me take charge to pay back on monthy installment, but bak said, cannot as this debt is too old already. so they ask me to pay lump sump of rm90k

the house bought only rm40k, but now need to pay rm90k. then the bank advised me to get someone to buy the house with a new loan, but no one able to do that. so i tell my parents and they promise to settle this.

so the issue left untouched until 2011, suddenly i see my bank account balanced become 0.

so i contact the bank and bank said, bank negara instruction to freezed my account and all my money paid to jim. they said i am bankrupt now.

so i went to jim. then they interview me, and etc, fill up declaration form how much to pay to them on monthly basis, income, expenses, loan i have, company i have etc.

they also telling me that the house loan that cause me bankrupt is now bank claimed at RM150k (with all interest etc).

during this time, jim said will not touch my own house (loan i start on 2009), as its only house i got, however, its up to the bank to decide if they still allow me to serve the loan or they will take it back as i already bankrupt.

however my credit card or car loan and all, they will stop as i cant have it due to bankrupt rules. so they will settle the credit card for me using the monthly payment i paid to jim.

they will also communicate with all the bank i have loan or account with to inform them to collect any payment due to jim.

so i stop my credit card, car loan, however my house loan i still serve.

then on 2012, suddenly after i served my home loan for a year after bankrupt, then bank dont want to accept my payment anymore, they said their legal dept said this is not right.

they plan to take my house as well, so this has cause me big problem now. on which i decide that the only way to stop all this is by settle the issue fast. i have 3 months before bank start to serve me final notice about unpaid loan.

to be continue ...
*
Sometimes I wonder why so many people get into deeper and deeper problems when the initial problem was a small one. I suppose many simply chose to ignore the problem and refused to deal with it. What are they hoping for that would happen? That a debt is magically forgiven?

Instead of meeting with bank officers to renegotiate the loan or to visit AKPK, these people would just simply chuck away every letter from the bank that they have received.


Artus
post Aug 8 2014, 10:17 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,985 posts

Joined: Jun 2010
QUOTE(NeedGuidance @ Aug 8 2014, 06:31 PM)
I personally think Malaysian need to educate themselves on proper financial planning. And even though I didn't blame my parents for what I'm going through, they are however in my eyes, are poor at financial planning. Our family, excluding me has this overly optimistic kind of mindset. They think that problems somehow, will easily solved (especially on our financial situation). I guess part of them are in denial that we're hitting rock bottom. I, on the other hand more of a realist. Hence thats why, I'm doing all the search for guidance and advices and do it all alone, because I know if I were to just rely on them, things will remain as it is, or worst.

And I think most people who end up being bankrupt, somehow started from a point where they never thought things will be as bad as this. Instead of ignorance, I think most of us simply unaware on how bad things can become from a simple financial issue.
*
Your parents probably have never heard of Murphy's Law:

"Anything that can go wrong will go wrong."

If they have heard of that adage before, they would have registered a Sdn. Bhd. instead of an enterprise, and never have taken a very expensive loan. Personal loans are usually very costly and should not have been taken.


Artus
post Aug 12 2014, 05:17 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,985 posts

Joined: Jun 2010
QUOTE(dkk @ Aug 12 2014, 03:46 PM)
Rich bf. The debt is actually quite small. smile.gif
*
It certainly looks like the family were ignoring the legal problems or else some negotiation with the creditors could have prevented the bankruptcy.



 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0193sec    0.40    6 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 15th December 2025 - 11:07 AM