Other than using a device to test out the graphical chart. I find is a debatable topic for clean and dirty. Well, everyone have own defination of clean and dirty. Is a individual hearing isn't it?

So maybe can more explain on it, or compare them?

clean or dirty? i think it is more to can you audit the difference or not... i can't... so to me every amp with-in the same price range and power sounds more or less the same...

and i thought someone ever correct me tht the difference between SQ and SPL only involves how loud is the low sub-bass...

cheers...

Hrmm...with the same range of amp, is about the same, but if the combine with diff component set, I can tell the different.

Different betweer SQ and SPL are not just on the sub-bass pressure level.

I still tent to combine those 2 but it won't work.

Haiya.. Clean or dirty.. I also using cheapo audio system... Can listen can edi.. You think i really go hardcore testing meh?
this fella said wan swap from SPL to SQ.. i just saying the Prokick not suitable for SQ.. Cheerz

For me, clean mean I can listen the music & vocal separatly & clearly without interuption...
Dirty mean sound noisy... Moslty SPL, I can't hear vocal clearly

Corect me if I am wrong.

This is what I do. Fine tune the sound of front comp set to more SQ clearity. Well, to me still ok, can diff vocal and back ground music. And myself don't like high trible sound. Sub-Woofer, tune up to 55dB with seal box. Can imagine how's the output?

your front component is runing active or passive? as far as i know prokick active crossover only can go 2/3 way... if you are running passive then you can't tune much on your front component except for the EQ... those frequency point cannot do much to it...

why not like this... try to run 2 way active... like this better and easier to tune... well if you are not really tht hardcore... then dun change anything on your setup...

cheers...

Yeah lor.. Same lar.. Woofer dun so loud.. if all bass only .. better get vibrator ..

Woofer need to be solid and can come to front seat..hehe
Maybe boardtune can help...

The only problem i having now is rear seats over bass liao coz i turn louder as front seats not enuff power.. no balance..

i think the problem is just tuning, with the helps from experienced installers im confident the current system can sounds great if tuned towards SQ
why change things when a little finetuning can solve the problem?
just visit any SQ-knowledgeable shops in your area & ask them to tune the system

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any amps can sound clean if set below audible distortion level
human cannot hear distortion anything below 1% for sinewaves & even 3% for musics
cheap amps, expensive amps all be be SQ amps as long as it play below 1% THD
only thing is cheap amps usually overrated in terms of power ratings

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sub SQ is usually related to box design
a chapalang sub can sounds great if mated with a properly designed box based on the sub TS parameters
is your box custom-made for your sub? or a universal box?

whats your crossover settings? your highpass? lowpass?

Even how you final tune the existing amp, it only help a bit only.
If you need tune as SQ amp... I can say it really hard..!

i think u made a big mistake by going for a 3way system with your current setup .....u should have gone for 2 way .....
in a car environment in order to get a good 3 way u need a lot of EQ adjustment for your mid as a mid require an enclosure and most of the time d installation of mid in car couldnt give u d enclosure u need .....most of the time, its highly recommended that to play 3way in full active system ....

i think the easier way is to ditch your back speaker ....then change to a good HU ....if u wan to go for SQ the u should go for a pioneer 8650,9650 or p80r (if u still wanan stick to pioneer lar).....use the active crossover in these players n play semi active with your passive crossover.....the EQ in these players should be enough to control your system ....try these first before u change your amp .....your system sound very bad now is cos of a wrong setup for SQ .....i have heard of a Prokick setup that sound quite good.....a good HU with a very well balance setup could make an amp shine even if the amp is lousy .....

This post has been edited by Fusion: Aug 29 2006, 11:09 PM

Somehow, to use the 3 Pioneers you mentioned to run bi-amp is not really a good idea after i'm played with one of my cars as i was initially planning on going bi-amp via the 8650 as well, BUT, the lowest choice for highpass for the front/tweeter RCAs is at a very high 1.6kHz(if not mistaken, can't remember now) as the lowest setting, the P80 only got slightly better but still above 1kHz, so far i only find that Alpine has the capability to go below 1kHz for the front/tweeter highpass

yupe.....d 8650 n 9650 can only go down to 1.6k but u could try using d the mid and midbass together .....u can use the passive internal crosspoint for the mid and midbass and use the tweeter as the active......but this way your mid and midbass have to quite close together ....it good for mid which is at kick panel ........the lowpass filter for the mid bass range from 1.6k to 16k....

Hmm..I duwan 3 way system but my installer recommend me inorder for the staging to come up. (I guess that guys wanna save job) Now, mid at door, vocal n tweeter on top of dashboard. When I look at it, is like I also can be installer liao..whole vocal speaker put on dashboard, no need tune also get staging d, am I rite?

I really noob in technical, how I determine active crossover and semi active? Or any website reference I can go read.

Ok decided change HU before amp.

Edit: So the 3 way position ok?

This post has been edited by DeReturner: Aug 30 2006, 12:54 PM

3 way is even more complicated in terms of angling, tuning

Gee, abit too technical for me to understand.

I know HU pre-out is important. Need 3 RCA output to get better tuning, am I right?
Does output Voltage on HU important too? My installer told me my HU Voltage insufficient (currently 2V). I found that pioneer 9650 n 8650 both out 6.5V and Alpine mostly all 4V. I personaly like pioneer, as it not so choosy on CD.


Been having problem on positioning my speaker. Even till now I can't get my bass to front.

bass to front is done through the tunings mostly... easier way would be overlapping the sub frequency with the front mid frequency... and also the phase control...

3 way is a harder setup than 2way anyday... thts why i recommend you to use only 2way full active setup for a start earlier... then as you learn switch to 3way setup later...

the pre-out voltage for me i think 4v is enough... as when we are listening to music we dun use up to 4v... will jus use slightly around 2v... unless when the bass comes in hard and loud then it will use till 4v or more...but believe me this is very rare case... you can check with a multimeter to confirm this(i hav check one numerous HU thts why i am sure about it...) but contrary believe is tht bigger voltage rating is better...

as for the HU... 3 pair of RCA out doesn't mean tht it is easier to do the tuning... i have a pioneer 5750 with 3 pairs but i only use one pairs as i use the alpine 701 only allows me to use one pair of them... and i tune everything from the 701... but of cuz the 701 has 4 pairs of RCA...

so my advise is plan ahead... if you really think you really wan to run 3 way active later... then dun get HU with built in 2/3 way active crossover... get a 3/4way ones... or optionally get one HU without any crossover and and get an external crossover with 2 channel bandpass...

and as for the tweets crossover point till 1.6khz and 1khz... tht is because the HU only can go for 2/3way active... so no point for it to put the tweeter Hz till as low as 500hz... as i never encountered a twweter tht can go tht low... even 1khz i never come across... so basically its pretty useless for them to put it till so low...

and one more thing to add... it will never be perfect in ICE... but its using the most optimum point... ie. your sub... sometimes you will jus need to feed them with 100Hz in order to get an upfront bass... but 100 Hz is not low sub frequency... but who cares when they sound good...

but then i am not pro like some... correct me if i am wrong...

cheers...

This post has been edited by craziechild: Aug 30 2006, 06:41 PM

3 way need to align the tweeter & mid positioning & also tuning...!
This is the most hard way to do it..maybe need cut the dashboard or door or kickboard...