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 4 Critical Signs of a Bubble Market V7, UUU still trounced DDD

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SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 09:43 AM, updated 12y ago

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This is a continuation from V6:
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3212945

The collapse of the US housing market bubble emphasizes how important it is to figure out what property is really worth, from a fundamental perspective. Make sure you’re not over-paying!

There are 4 yardsticks of bubble markets:

•Price to Rent Ratio (or Yield)
•Relative Prices
•Affordability
•Price of new builds


VALUATION TOOL 1: THE PRICE TO RENT RATIO

The gross rental yield) is the housing parallel to the price/earnings ratio. Here is a set of rules of thumb for the housing market:

VALUATION YARDSTICKS FOR THE HOUSING MARKET

PRICE/RENT RATIO GROSS RENTAL YIELD (%)

5 20 Very undervalued
6.7 15 Very undervalued
8.3 12 Undervalued
10 10 Undervalued
12.5 8 Borderline undervalued
14.2 7 Fairly priced
16.7 6 Fairly priced
20 5 Borderline overvalued
25 4 Overvalued
33.3 3 Overvalued
40 2.5 Very overvalued
50 2 Very overvalued

But there are exceptions to this. When strong future growth in value is expected e.g in areas where transport infrastructure is being upgraded then relatively weak present earnings can be acceptable.

There are several good reasons why people should pay attention to the 'valuation parameters':

Higher rental yields push the housing market higher

If rental yield levels are high, this will tend to mean that the interest cost of buying a house is low, compared to the cost of renting a house:

•Potential buyers will pay less to borrow from the bank (in order to buy) than they pay when renting a house. Many will move from being renters to buyers.
•Entrepreneurs will find it makes sense to buy houses to make money, i.e., buy in order to rent them out.

Both these factors put upward pressure on house prices.

Lower rental yields put downward pressure house prices

If rental yield levels are low, this will tend to mean that the interest cost of buying a house is high, compared to the cost of renting a house:

•Potential buyers will find that to buy a house involves paying much more to the bank, than it costs to rent a house. Buyers, especially first-time buyers, may have difficulty financing housing. Banks will be worried about over-lending at loan-to-income ratios which mean that a slight increase in interest rates will mean financial crisis for the borrower.
•Entrepreneurs will find that buying-to-let won't pay.

The house price can be viewed as a kind of circle, with houses prices moving from yields of (say) 4% to 11%

•Yields shifting down to 4% would represent danger.
•Yields rising to 11% would signal opportunity.


VALUATION TOOL 2: RELATIVE PRICES

People tend to actively look for cheaper and better alternatives. Where houses are very highly priced, people will seek more affordable alternatives. So if you’re buying property that’s amazingly expensive on a sqaure foot basis compared to its surrounding developments – BEWARE!


VALUATION TOOL 3: AFFORDABILITY

If house prices are so high that few people can actually afford to buy them, then their value will likely fall in future. A reasonable measure of value is a country’s GDP per capita. In a country where the ratio of house prices to GDP/capita is high, it’s a fair bet that houses are overvalued.

Relative to GDP/Capita levels:
•House prices in Luxembourg, Belgium, Norway, Denmark and Austria seem cheap.
•House prices in the UK, Italy, France and the Netherlands seem comparatively expensive.


VALUATION TOOL 4: PRICE OF NEW BUILDS

If house prices are much higher than the cost of building (construction costs), developers are motivated to put up buildings. So when you see a rush by developers to build, that’s a danger sign. As new supply comes into the housing market, that tends to put pressure on prices. So when house prices are far greater than new-build costs, it's a very clear signal that prices are likely to come down.
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(satrianeo-x @ Jun 16 2014, 10:34 AM)
I see that it will not crash currently. Instead, I see genuine buyer (own stay, hong haul) still buying for kids, with parents. I see flippers stopping, and/or busy selling off as fast as they could the props they bought once VP. Still it will not be crash, maybe they take less profit due to government policy. Current pricing of new launches are future price, thus leave very little room for substantial appreciation unless previous launch price point.

I see SoHo/Small-studios, turned into MINI HOTELS, perhaps whole floor renovated. A new type of short/long stay, with good service and high-speed WiFi and even privatised room-service (if that property do not have such service already) Effectively turning it into some kind of TIME-SHARE kind of stay. But this is in reverse order of TIME-SHARE.  This is due to so many of them swarming the market. Good enough for short-stay (1 - 5 years) but not for a family of 4. SOHO will become a sort of 'PIT STOP' prior to a bigger (approx 1025 - 1500 sq ft) living space.

Just thinking out loud here.
*
If you talk about SoHo/Studio, I think they called it Homestay.

SOHO is not pitstop. Its not really suitable for family with kids. Only for newly weds yes. But I think most wife will kill you if you buy studio as wedding house. Hahaha...

Currently the price is not crash because no transaction or no buyer in the subsale market. I don't know what the buyer waiting for. Crazy la.

This post has been edited by gogo2: Jun 16 2014, 10:44 AM
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(bearbearwong @ Jun 16 2014, 10:57 AM)
So.. v7 already.. bubble bubble.. picture is getting clearer
*
Not really clear though.

I see from thread https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2967053/+260

still got a lot of people buying new property.

Just that subsale got not much transaction. LOL...
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(AppreciativeMan @ Jun 16 2014, 11:25 AM)
How sure are u???  blink.gif  blink.gif  blink.gif
Because your parent didnt buy for u then u think parents buying for kids very low??
Vice versa, I think parents buying for kids these days are very high......  whistling.gif  whistling.gif  whistling.gif
*
Not only that. Non-parents also buying for their non-existing kids too. rclxms.gif rclxm9.gif
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 11:53 AM

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QUOTE(KLsooner @ Jun 16 2014, 11:51 AM)
Anything but no bubble. My own family members and few colleagues just bought million and multi million dollars worth of property each. Another colleague is viewing units thinking to buy for son graduating soon.

It is a different ball game now, people are buying for own stay and hedging against inflation. Less hit and run flippers.

Now you see the real deep pockets in action.
*
That's why you don't see much house in auction. rclxms.gif
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(Rabel @ Jun 16 2014, 11:55 AM)
Reach which version bubble only will burst ??😄😄
*
Maybe won't burst.

But the objective of this thread is achieved. We now have a bubble market. Congrats to me and other UUU forumer. Also thanks for suiyi for snapping up all our VP'ed house. rclxms.gif rclxm9.gif
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 12:00 PM

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QUOTE(cfa28 @ Jun 16 2014, 11:58 AM)
if you are using Dept of Statistics, 80% of MY earn less than RM3K per mth

but majority of these folks are not in KV, Penang, JB, etc

You must focus on whet segment you are referring to

There re are Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics

For all intend and purpose, we are referring to Hot / Popular Spots and in these places, more and mope Parents are buying for their children.

Many are forgoing their own luxuries such as Cars, holidays by investing in Properties.
*
True. I see many business chaplap because spending by household is getting less.

Only property can huat huat huat.

Hoh seh liao!!!! rclxms.gif rclxm9.gif
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 12:10 PM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Jun 16 2014, 12:05 PM)
The day when all other threads in lowyat forum are dead, left with this as the only active thread.
*
Hey, this make a lot of sense.. laugh.gif
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 12:24 PM

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QUOTE(HuiChyr @ Jun 16 2014, 12:16 PM)
By then bubble already pop.
But one thing I'm sure of is that banker with strong connection to rich ppl and vice versa buy up the properties under water even before it was auction off. And these props are usually good location and rental. Props auction off are the ones that rejected by these rich dudes.

Understandable bcoz long auction list doesn't look good for the banks.
*
Oh I see.

There's an auction in Penang with a landed house in good housing area dropping from RM650k to Rm585k to RM527k.

I'm very interested. Unfortunately my wife decided otherwise.

So means, the rich people not interested with that house. Must be very bad fengshui.
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 12:29 PM

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QUOTE(bearbearwong @ Jun 16 2014, 12:21 PM)
New launcheas though can finish all units some do not. It takes longer time ..

subsales is the one worring.. subsales market are 80% for home stay and not investment.. subsales slowing down could br many factors

a) price too high
b) loan too strict
c) anticipating burst
d) too many new launch choices
e) oversupply
f)etc..
*
All the factor seems like logical

QUOTE(HuiChyr @ Jun 16 2014, 12:21 PM)
So isn't that a bad scenario?
Sub-sales cannot sell but new launch can?
So question is; these buyers for developers, are they really home stayers or investors/flippers?
General knowledge (not universal though) is that there's price appreciation from new launches bcoz it's like buying from wholeseller or direct from factory. Moreso, loan approval is easier compare to subsale because influence from developer on valuer and banks.
*
Actually people want to buy new because buying subsale feel like being suiyi although many discount from subsale. Huhu...

Especially if you buy old area (RM200k landed) at high price (RM600k). Imagine you are high class earner living in low class area. Many avoid buying this type of subsale I think.

QUOTE(icemanfx @ Jun 16 2014, 12:22 PM)
If parents are truly buying for their children now means there will be less demand for property in the future.
*
Sound logical also. But their children will buy for their children's children's children?
But parent house who stay? Maybe sell?

QUOTE(kokwah18 @ Jun 16 2014, 12:22 PM)
I think this thread will continue until 2020 as the properties will still remain strong and growing. I will buy properties now, won't wait until burst coz that time, all people will further trim their pocket and won't spend $$$ on buying properties due to uncertainty (such as interest growing up, job retrenchment and etc). Even I have $$$ during properties burst, I would rather spend on investing in shares rather than buying properties. What properties can do for u when it burst? Lol

Hopefully, this admin won't continue this thread until death.
*
Yes bro. Buy property more important. Trim pocket. No need to spend on expensive food.
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 04:22 PM

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QUOTE(accetera @ Jun 16 2014, 04:13 PM)
Over the weekend, I felt like the BBB scenes are coming back again.

This time, there are people who will buy CASH.
*
I heard from DDD that some of them are actors hired by developer. But I don't believe DDD. Some of my friend DDD say that when I show them you post.
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 08:10 PM

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QUOTE(bearbearwong @ Jun 16 2014, 08:06 PM)
Dis one I notice as well. 1 prop auction.. but many post but the same property.. subsales mkt bo good.. manu agents see got good auction then advertise.. even those waiting for sale by owner and good prop oso many agent..
*
By the way, who pay agent commission? Bank? I think buyer no need to pay commission right?
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 08:13 PM

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QUOTE(AppreciativeMan @ Jun 16 2014, 08:12 PM)
adui..... your last life got killed by agent isit? sweat.gif  sweat.gif
Its new flat.... not agent prob la..... u m'sian or not? kno how this country works or not?  doh.gif  doh.gif
*
so knowing how country is corrupt, you just support the corruption? LOL.. rclxms.gif

Geng liao!!! rclxms.gif rclxm9.gif
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 08:21 PM

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QUOTE(AppreciativeMan @ Jun 16 2014, 08:16 PM)
read my earlier post la.....  doh.gif  doh.gif
And u mean u NEVER pay kopi money b4??  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif
*
No wor. I got my own principe. biggrin.gif
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 08:26 PM

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QUOTE(AppreciativeMan @ Jun 16 2014, 08:23 PM)
i believe i believe...... LOL
rclxms.gif  rclxms.gif  rclxms.gif
*
Seems like someone step on your tail when agent is mentioned. LOL.
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 08:27 PM

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QUOTE(kradun @ Jun 16 2014, 08:26 PM)
without these principle u can reap ur profit earlier. wakakaka..
*
Well, profit can be reap anywhere and anytime. Miss one. Another one came. Don't worry one. Money is out there. Just don't give up. flex.gif
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 08:29 PM

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QUOTE(AppreciativeMan @ Jun 16 2014, 08:29 PM)
Seems like u r jus like those DDD who likes to do prediction.....  laugh.gif  laugh.gif
*
What kind of prediction did I do? blush.gif
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 08:32 PM

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QUOTE(AppreciativeMan @ Jun 16 2014, 08:32 PM)
u meanu dont kno wat u written all the while?....  tongue.gif  tongue.gif  tongue.gif
*
Well, you have to point it to me. Maybe what you think is prediction, to me it isn't. hmm.gif
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 08:36 PM

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QUOTE(ManutdGiggs @ Jun 16 2014, 08:33 PM)
1st one back in early 90s. Follow kawan blur blur bot it. Thereafter bot a few more together with shops. I blif if u dare to start early, the rewards ll b fantastic.

M2c.
*
Early 90s is very early. I'm still in my secondary school. LOL..

I think follow friend that love property is a good thing.... rclxms.gif
SUSgogo2
post Jun 16 2014, 08:38 PM

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QUOTE(AppreciativeMan @ Jun 16 2014, 08:37 PM)
Be a grown up and mature man, do your own evaluation.....  whistling.gif  whistling.gif  whistling.gif
*
Evaluate what? LOL.. better evaluate what I want to buy next... rclxm9.gif

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