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 [OFFICIAL]Rig Suggestion Q&A Thread V5!

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mykchin8
post May 5 2014, 08:11 AM

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QUOTE(rav3n82 @ May 5 2014, 07:09 AM)
Just ignore the 4GB variants of the GTX 770. You will simply run out of GPU processing power long before hitting the VRAM wall (limit). Go for higher clocked 2GB models, the Gainward GTX 770 Phantom is a good choice, also being nicely priced. smile.gif

Here's my suggestion for you. biggrin.gif

Intel Core i5 4440 - RM579
Asrock B85M Pro4 – RM279
Corsair Value Ram 8GB DDR3 1600MHz - RM229
Gainward GTX 770 Phantom  – RM1199 (lingloong)
Seasonic S12 II 620W PSU - RM299
WD Caviar Blue 1TB HDD - RM189
Plextor M5S 128GB SSD - RM284
Cooler Master K380 Casing - RM149
Lite-On 24x DVDRW – RM59

Total - RM3266 (prices are from Viewnet)
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Tom's Hardware has a report indicating that the Phantom's cooling solution is not as efficient as MSI's Twin Frozr or Gigabyte's WindForce, based on measurements, there is up to 10degC delta in performance. Does anyone have any issues with the temps of Phantoms that you are using now?
mykchin8
post May 5 2014, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(Clem1982 @ May 5 2014, 10:19 AM)
Hardly the issue unless someone is gunning for high OC clocks, most of us will run our GPUs at stock or mild OC so a little higher temp compared to the Twin-Frozr or Windforce series is not a concern so long as it's better than stock cooler
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Generally, the above is true. If we see the data here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforc...104,3542-6.html

The stable temps for reference cooler is 76degC, Phantom is 70degC, TF is 60degC, and WF is 57degC. This is at 22degC ambient temp, which is actually low. In a country like Malaysia without air conditioning, the ambient temp would be about 28 to 30 degC, I would not consider the Phantom temps to be a "little higher" than TF or WF solutions.

I have not had experience with the Phantoms before, so hopefully someone out there with actual experience of the Phantoms versus TF and WF can help to share. I have experience with TF, WF, as well as DCII, so I can say they are good.
mykchin8
post May 5 2014, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(Minecrafter @ May 5 2014, 10:23 AM)
+1
Even the Phantom GTX770's price from Lingloong beats them all. biggrin.gif
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Yes, in this specific case, I can only say that we get what we pay for. The question is whether the additional cooling performance is worth the additional cost for our own specific application.

This post has been edited by mykchin8: May 5 2014, 11:46 AM
mykchin8
post May 5 2014, 11:50 AM

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QUOTE(rav3n82 @ May 5 2014, 10:31 AM)
I would personally consider cooling solutions from Palit, Gainward and Zotac as 2nd tier compared to the ones from Asus, Gigabyte and MSI. After all, you get what you pay for. As we have discussed before many times, the cooler from e.g Asus is usually superior in all regards compared to the competition. smile.gif
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Yes, I was just wondering if someone had the experience with the Phantoms in Malaysia, and whether there was a problem encountered for the cooling performance. The Phantoms are recommended quite often in this forum, so it is quite popular. I was wondering if the lower cost is worth the lower cooling performance.
mykchin8
post May 5 2014, 10:53 PM

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QUOTE(creative zn @ May 5 2014, 01:40 PM)
I use Phantom GTX760 previously. The temperature during Unigine Heaven 4.0 is about 81C. While in real gaming about 86C+- i guess. Can't recall.

Now im using 280X TF, and temperature during Unigine Heaven 4.0 is about 74C. While in real gaming top is 83C.

Well this is no fair comparison as AMD card run hotter than Nvidia. Plus ambient temperature, casing airflow counted. My ambient was 30C+-.

Hope this helps. biggrin.gif
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Thanks for the feedback ... this is interesting, since the R9 280X supposedly runs hotter than the GTX760, yet the MSI TF cooler is able to reduce the temps further by about 5degC or so compared to the Phantom, assuming all other variables are the same.

I would prefer to pay the ~RM100 premium for a MSI TF cooler (GTX760 Phantom is RM845, MSI GTX760 Gaming is RM930), since as you use the GPU over time, there is dust buildup on the cooling fins, and reduces the cooling efficiency further. So long term wise, it is better to get a more efficient cooling solution.
mykchin8
post May 5 2014, 10:59 PM

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QUOTE(rav3n82 @ May 5 2014, 10:24 PM)
I think it would be best to get it all from a single reseller, since it would be easier also when it comes to warranty claim. Also, getting all from one shop, perhaps you could also get them to build it up for you, if you wish. And ask for discounts...if you're getting it all from one place. smile.gif
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Yes, fully agree with rav3n82 on getting all of your parts from a single retailer. Prices are not that much different nowadays if you do know the retailer well and can get discounts, since the cost price is the same from the main distributor and is normally not a big secret. The services most good retailers have are to assemble the rig for you, and especially if you are unlucky enough to have problems, and need troubleshooting as well as warranty claim support.
mykchin8
post May 5 2014, 11:03 PM

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QUOTE(moondevil999 @ May 5 2014, 10:44 PM)
Ya, but im still trying to ask another seller whether they still have stock for it. Although Gbros is selling RM870, RM21 higher then lingloong, i think i will just get from him, dun wanna wait for 2 months. HAHA, is abit too long.  icon_rolleyes.gif

Not more than RM50 discount offerred if getting all from one place =( more discount would be offerred if total price is higher i guess.
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Normally you can get between 5% to 10% off the advertised prices from the retailers if you buy the whole rig ... so if your whole rig is RM3K, you can get about RM200 off. And you will get better service if the retailer thinks that you are a loyal customer.
mykchin8
post May 6 2014, 08:12 AM

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QUOTE(moondevil999 @ May 5 2014, 11:58 PM)
Ok, will try to get all the parts from single reseller, either Idealtech or Gbros, if possible. Most of the time I bought the stuffs from C-zone, but too bad they do not have Asrock B85 Killer, NZXT case, Gainward/Zotac graphic cards and FSP PSU. With my tight budget, couldn't get seasonic or silverstone PSU that available at C-zone.

But these specs seems over my budget  sad.gif

Processor: Xeon E3-1230v3
Motherboard: Asrock B85M Killer
RAM: HyperX/Corsiar  Fury 1600Mhz 8G
PSU: FSP Raider 550W
Graphic: Gainward GTX760 Phantom/Zotac 760AMP
Case: NZXT H230
HDD: reused
Accessories: reused
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If you are on a budget, then maybe reduce the CPU to an i5 (-RM200), use a lower spec'd B85 board (-RM50), buy a Zotac GTX760 standard (-RM100) ... so you can shave off RM350 from your budget. RAM price between Hyper and Value is only like RM20, so if you want to save there, you can too ...

There will not be much significant negative impact to your gaming performance ... you will have more noise from your rig, due to the standard Zotac GPU cooler, so if you want less noise, then spend more money to get a lower noise cooling solution.
mykchin8
post May 6 2014, 10:37 AM

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QUOTE(rav3n82 @ May 6 2014, 10:25 AM)
Can consider Gainward reference GTX 760 also. IMHO, looks better than the standard reference card. brows.gif

Zotac GTX 760 reference
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Gainward GTX 760 reference
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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Yes, the Gainward does look better than the Zotac. The Zotac GTX760 costs RM765, so if the Gainward GTX760 is about the same price, and can be found in your favourite retailer, then it is a better buy.

Of course, once you install the video card into rig, it will be hard to notice the difference, even if you have a window, since the cooler will be facing downwards.
mykchin8
post May 6 2014, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(mykchin8 @ May 6 2014, 08:12 AM)
If you are on a budget, then maybe reduce the CPU to an i5 (-RM200), use a lower spec'd B85 board (-RM50), buy a Zotac GTX760 standard (-RM100) ... so you can shave off RM350 from your budget.  RAM price between Hyper and Value is only like RM20, so if you want to save there, you can too ...

There will not be much significant negative impact to your gaming performance ... you will have more noise from your rig, due to the standard Zotac GPU cooler, so if you want less noise, then spend more money to get a lower noise cooling solution.
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Another option which will save more money is to consider an Asrock H81 board, like the H81M-VG4 ... this will save another RM100, so you can actually reduce almost RM500 from your current budget. If you have extra budget, it is better to consider spending like RM100 to buy a better cooling solution for your GPU, which is quieter, and cools better than the reference cooler.

The performance difference between a H81 and B85 is very small, less than 3% I would say, but you do lose some connectivity, like less USB3.0 ports, and less SATA 6Gb/s ports, but if you do not need it, then it does not matter.

This post has been edited by mykchin8: May 6 2014, 11:20 AM
mykchin8
post May 6 2014, 01:10 PM

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QUOTE(moondevil999 @ May 6 2014, 12:13 PM)
Thanks for the help of considering the parts for me due to my tight budget. But instead of saving more money on getting cheaper and less performance parts, I now try to increase my budget rm200-300 more. I gonna use it for 7 years perhaps and due to my heavy multitasking everyday, tons of tabs in chrome and mozilla, words & excels, Visual studio, Web programming, VMwares, light photoshop, Bluestacks, and sometimes gaming on FSP, strategy and PS2/PS1 emulator. My 4 years laptop couldn't serve me longer with these heavy tasks  cry.gif
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If you are a heavy multi-tasking user, running multiple programs at the same time, with "tons of tabs", then it makes sense to increase your RAM size, and since you are already at 8GB, you might want to consider getting 16GB.

I would also ask that you consider better cooling for your GPU if you want to use your PC for 7 years.

I am not sure of the details of your budget, but it would be good to review again in detail.
mykchin8
post May 6 2014, 01:14 PM

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QUOTE(wira_laju @ May 6 2014, 11:44 AM)
is normal psu in very low power consumption(idle)sometime have hiccup?.my two difference psu have symptom like that.some say it not reach efficiency,its true?
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It is hard to provide an answer if you do not provide more details of what you mean by "hiccup", please provide more details if possible.

All PSUs generally have lower efficiency when the power usage is lower (<100W), but once the PC starts up, then the efficiency improves, though I must say that this is quite rarely an issue which can be considered a "hiccup".
mykchin8
post May 6 2014, 06:47 PM

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QUOTE(wira_laju @ May 6 2014, 02:03 PM)
sometime led blink & fan stop spinning for 1 @ 2 second..
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Led blink happens when windows goes to sleep so that is a good thing. Some mobos will even stop the fans, so that I considers good thing as well. As long as the pc comes back on when you want it, then all OK.
mykchin8
post May 6 2014, 09:13 PM

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QUOTE(TheHitman47 @ May 6 2014, 08:29 PM)
well i believe the prob that guy having are the fan stop 1-2 seconds then continue spinning and not in sleeping whatsoever. i think thats what that guy trying to said.
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I did not see any clear information from him on whether the PC was in sleeping mode or not.

However, if the symptom of the issue is the fan stopping for 1 to 2 seconds, and if the fan is connected directly to the power supply, then it is possible that the power supply could have issues, and this would need to be verified that the PC should also be seeing issues (unstable, hang). If the fan is connected to the mobo, then it is possible the mobo is causing the fan to stop, since some mobos will slow down the fan and possibly stop it if the temperature is below a set target. LED blinking is basically due to the PC going into sleep mode. All these need to be verified ... or if he has bought his PC from a good retailer, he can bring the PC to the retailer, and ask the retailer to troubleshoot.
mykchin8
post May 9 2014, 05:49 PM

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QUOTE(cle900706 @ May 9 2014, 01:22 AM)
most of the stuff u can get from viewnet, but go other other shops like cycom, czone and others then go back viewnet say their offer. did that, and got quite a bargain. or u can purchase separate parts from cheaper shops in lowyat
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It is very common for buyers to go check the prices among all the shops, and then go back to one shop and tell that shop what is the cheapest prices, and most of the time, that one shop can match the prices or come close enough that it doesn't matter much.

However, I do discourage from buying from multiple shops, since if there is an issue, you will need some help to troubleshoot, and then claim warranty. If you buy from one shop, you will get better service, so the better approach is to buy from one shop.

Viewnet, All IT, Thundermatch, Sri Computers and all the large shops in LYP have an advantage because they stock a large variety of computer parts. However, large shops with many sales persons will find it more challenging to provide good customer service consistently, unless you deal with the owner of the shop, who also might not always be there. Also the larger shops have a higher overhead (rental in LYP is very expensive), so this will also translate to higher average sale prices.
mykchin8
post May 10 2014, 03:46 PM

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QUOTE(rav3n82 @ May 10 2014, 03:12 PM)
Well, SSD is definitely a very nice luxury to have. But at a RM3k budget, I would go with stronger GPU anytime. brows.gif
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This is something that should be given a little more consideration, based on my experience.

If you are to decide where to spend RM300 - on an SSD or higher level GPU (GTX770), then it makes sense to ask what is the experience that you get in return for that RM300.

If you game at 1920x1080, there is very little difference in gaming experience between a GTX760 and GTX770 for most of today's games. Yes, you can possibly run at a higher AA level, or even go to Ultra Quality levels from Very High Quality levels, but in all fairness, there will not be much difference that you will experience when you play that game. Even less difference if you are not playing the high end demanding games, like Battlefield 4 or Crysis 3 ... like if you are playing DOTA2, FF14, etc. Of course, if you game at 2560x1440, or even plan to game at that level, then you will need buy the GTX770.

If you install an SSD, the experience that you get is very different compared to a HDD. Windows boots up very quickly, you can switch between programs so much faster, load times for programs are almost instant, etc. The whole computer just feels more "snappy" ... For example, now I am not playing any games on my computer, but surfing the Internet, typing this message to the forum members, checking some news, reading up a couple of tech reviews, checking up on the new movies/TV shows, running WinRAR, doing some financial work ... etc. The whole experience of doing these things is much better and faster on an SSD compared to HDD.

I actually do not play that much games, maybe a few hours a week, so that also is a factor. It depends on what you use your computer with, but it would always be good if you were to ask yourself what is the return on the RM300 that you will spend, and that will help you to decide if you should spend on that higher end GPU, or buy the SSD.

mykchin8
post May 10 2014, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(rav3n82 @ May 10 2014, 04:22 PM)
Seems like we have quite the similar experience as well. smile.gif Yes, I have personally experienced the intoxicating effects of a SSD. tongue.gif See, the problem with a SSD is that once you have felt one, you'll never go back to regular HDD. How fitting and true. Snappier is coincidentally the same word that I liked to use to describe the overall experience of a SSD as well. Ever since I intoxicated myself with a SSD now nearly 3 years back, everything that I run on feels just so fasta, from the booting of OS, opening programs, opening files, surfing the net and the list goes on and on. Working on a normal HDD is a dread, as unfortunately my working laptop offers me that fate. laugh.gif Heck, even my now HTPC runs on an old Kingston SSD. tongue.gif

And yes, despite the much touted Battlefield 4 being an AMD optimized game and all, I actually completed the entire single player campaign on an Nvidia card; GTX 760 @1080p, all at full settings with 4xMSAA (which usually kills framerates). But there are games that actually stresses out that very same GPU on some other more graphically demanding games as well, namely Crysis 3. And yeah, no one is going to stop to admire the anti-aliasing at its full glory when all the alien cephs (or human players) are trying to obliterate you, but I personally find a very profound difference going from FXAA (free anti-aliasing) to some of the more refined ones, e.g MSAA / SMAA. I don't play multiplayer games, on which you will never ever have the luxury of stopping by and admire how beautiful the graphic engine actually renders that particular scene. I love to admire my games though. wub.gif And the 760 unfortunately struggles when going to MSAA / SMAA settings for some of these games.

That is why I personally recommend going for a GPU first (if gaming takes precedence), and if there's really additional budget to be added later on, then go for a SSD, for the many reasons cited above. I have an underutilized GTX 780 plugged in, and most of the things I do these days is just online, reading and that's all. Hardly game much myself these days too. Now that I've mentioned it, it's time for me to frag a thing or two. brows.gif
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Thanks for sharing your experience, I'm sure these inputs will be invaluable for the forum members!

mykchin8
post May 13 2014, 10:04 AM

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QUOTE(TheHitman47 @ May 12 2014, 11:10 PM)
Most here doesnt even recommend oc cpu.
Whenever i7 was mentioned, xeon will be mentioned as well.

Love to see more i7 in this thread.  flex.gif
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Hitman, the main reason that i7 is rarely recommended, is that it is very poor value for money.

For 99.9% of gaming needs, an i5 is more than enough. For workstation type tasks, a Xeon is better, as it is the same core, but without the IGP, cooler, and more importantly it is cheaper, if you can source it.

The only reason I can see for an i7 is for the overclocking, so the i7-4770K is the CPU to recommend, and it is mainly for bragging rights to overclock it and have one of the most powerful CPUs in your rig.

Also, K-series OC CPUs are not recommended unless you want to overclock, and if you are a serious overclocker, this is normally not the forum that they will ask for advice on. You also do pay a premium for K-series CPUs, so it will only be recommended for overclockers, otherwise it is a waste of funds, which can be better spent on GPU or SSD ...

I hope this clarifies the general situation on why i7 CPUs are not recommended as often.

This post has been edited by mykchin8: May 13 2014, 10:04 AM
mykchin8
post May 13 2014, 12:22 PM

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QUOTE(Zgames @ May 13 2014, 11:49 AM)
2.3k. Intel have slight performance when it comes to gaming. Here's my suggestion.

Proc - i5-4440 RM 579
Mobo - Asrock B85 Killer RM 299
GPU - Gainward GTX 760 ref. RM 799 [ IdealTech ]
HDD - 1TB WD Blue RM 189
PSU - Antec VP-550w RM 199
RAM - 8GB Value RAM RM 229
Casing - CM K380 RM 149

All for RM 2,443. Better than the R9 270. And the sleek design of the Gainward brows.gif Prices from Viewnet cept GPU from per said. A lil' bit out of budget but it's a solid build.
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If you buy everything from a good retailer in LYP, you should get some discounts, and possibly be RM2.3K plus.

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