Asking a question like this here in LYN will not get you any closer to a decision. Both Toyota and Kia fanboys will come in here and slug it out claiming each is better. So im not gonna walk down that path. What i will give you is the 13 key criteria's in choosing a car and you can then decide from that which car to go for:

The key word with any car purchase should be VALUE FOR MONEY meaning what ure getting for what ure paying for. Generally there are 13 criteria which are important when choosing a car:

1) Price
2) Safety
3) Specifications
4) Design
5) Interior space
6) Build quality / durability
7) Ride, handling, power
8) After sales service
9) Overall maintenance cost (not just periodic maintenance)
10) Warranty terms
11) Comfort
12) Resale value
13) Future models / facelifts

There is no car in the market which has all 13 criteria’s. So the idea is always to list your choices against these criteria and then compare against how much ure paying for it.

You also need to take into account your specific needs. For instance, if ure not a driver who drives fast, long distance or spends a lot of time in the car then don’t bother getting a car which is powerful and excels in ride & handling. It will be a waste.

Also give importance to long term needs not just the present. Look at least 5 years ahead and see where ull be. Cars are a 100% loss from Day 1 so the idea is always to minimize losses by choosing the car which satisfies most of the criteria above and yet keeps the price affordable. In saying this, I don't mean that resale value should become the primary criteria hence why its No 12 on that list.

Use these 13 criteria’s when listing down your choices. Never ever choose a car based on 3 or 4 criteria’s. U'll just increase the risks of making the wrong choice. Test drives actually don’t help much because most of the time ppl don’t know how to test drive or what to look for in a test drive. But do your homework and then test. Ull get a better idea then.

Hope this helps you in your decision.

And btw, ive been a Optima K5 owner for the past 21 months after being a loyal Toyota customer for 9.5 years. Do i regret my decision to switch? Except for after sales service which Toyota excels in, i dont. And please give alot of importance to safety and especially the Stability Control function. It saved my life last year.

Eh friend dont u get tired with this same crap over n over again ah? Dont u have more important things to worry about? Keep on and on about resale value. Instead of just talking about poor resale value why dont u provide actual figures comparing original purchase price with current 2nd hand selling price for each make e.g Forte, Sylphy, Civic and Altis? Provide at least 3 examples for each (with links) then let them see for themselves. Figures cannot lie so why dont u just provide them the actual info instead of going on and on trying to prove them wrong? Damn sien listening to the same nonsense on all Kia threads la.

Do a simple table with the original selling price vs the current 2nd hand selling price for each make. U can get info from Mudah. Give at least 3 examples for each. Then easier for everybody to see and judge for themselves. If not this will just be a never-ending boring discussion.

Segments are not determined by the equipment range in the car la. Segments are mainly based on dimensions. Equipment range is not always determined by an individual's wants and needs. Its given to add value. Its silly to start this discussion about wats needed and whats not needed. Most Malaysians will say they dont need stability control also. How many of us have been in accidents that require airbag deployment? Does that mean we dont need airbags also. My point is dont bother with the 'i dont need this' argument. Doesnt get you anywhere.

I dunno what u refering to as old Cerato. There is only one Cerato in Malaysia and thats the current version. Both the Forte and Cerato are C segment cars the same as the BMW 320i.

This post has been edited by cybermaster98: Feb 3 2014, 03:32 PM

Do you know how many different dimensions are taken into consideration? U are only refering to legroom. What about hip room, head room, shoulder room, etc? What about the total length of the car, wheelbase, width, etc? All these need to be taken into consideration. You need to also consider seat design, dashboard overhang, size of side panels, etc as well. So you cant just use legroom. What about the legroom in the BMW 320i? Have u sat in one? Go sit and tell me how much legroom you have inside. If u only compare legroom, then the Sylphy is surely D segment while the BMW 320i is B segment cuz its quite cramped in there. What about the new Ford Focus? Thats gotta be the most cramped C segment in the market.

Btw, i dont know what problems you get entering the new Cerato unless ure very tall. Im 183cm and ive had no issues entering the Cerato.

This post has been edited by cybermaster98: Feb 3 2014, 03:43 PM

Nobody is getting fooled and nobody is blindly supporting anything. You are connecting the wrong dots here. For you segments are determined by legroom which is NOT the case. There are about 10-15 different dimensional criteria which determine segmentation. Legroom is just one of them.

Even within the segments there are different classification now. There is compact, entry level, luxury, etc. All this you can get even within the same segment. Previously segments were driven mainly by the engine capacity. ANything which was 2.0L and above was D segments. BUt now its different. There are C segment cars with 2.0L engines. There are also B segment cars which are as powerful as D segment cars although engine capacity may be smaller thanks to the inclusion of turbo engines.

The point im trying to make is that segmentation of vehicles is determined by a range of criteria. Legroom is only one of those criteria.

Nope sorry. I dont agree with you here. Why dont you provide us with actual dimensions both external and internal to back up your claims? There are many websites which will provide these dimensions so you should be able to easily find it.

I am right. You said that based on legroom, the Cerato is NOT a C segment. 100% wrong. Then you said this Cerato is MUCH SMALLER than the previous Forte. Also 100% wrong. Now suddenly u are changing your line of argument and talking about comfort. Common la friend.

Let me give you some actual dimensions to prove my point to you. This is comparison between Cerato vs Forte. First set of data is for Cerato and all in inches.

Front head room - 39.1,40.0
Front leg room - 42.2, 43.3
Front hip room - 53.8, 53.0
Front shoulder room - 56.1, 55.7
Rear head room - 37.3, 37.6
Rear leg room - 35.9, 35.0
Rear hip room - 53.1, 53.3
Rear shoulder room - 54.9, 54.7
Width - 70.1, 69.9
Length - 179.5, 178.3
Wheelbase - 106.3, 104.3

Ive given you actual FACTS. So now please share with me how you came about with your statement that the new Cerato is MUCH SMALLER than the previous Forte? Lets see your facts.

Dimensions tell you something, comfort tells you something else. Both are different set of criteria and influenced by different factors. I suggest you do some reading up before commenting further.

U are just being childish. The purpose of my last few posts is to prove you have made a mistake in 2 things:

1) Legroom is not the ONLY factor which determines vehicle segmentation
2) The new Cerato is NOT MUCH SMALLER than the Forte

And i believe that i have proven my points above beyond doubt. I have never said that the Cerato is a good car, or that it is better than the Altis or that its a worthy buy or that Cerato sales are better than any other car out there or that we should buy cars based on dimensions.

You have made 2 mistakes and i have proven you wrong. Learn to admit your mistake and move on. LYN is a forum to discuss and learn in a matured manner. Everybody makes mistakes. No big dea and no need to get emotional.

Cheers!

(Btw, you dont know what the actual sale numbers are for any of the makes in the country so try not to claim something when you do not have the data to back yourself up. And just to be clear in case you fail to understand simple English, im not saying that Cerato sales are better than Altis or any other car out there)

This post has been edited by cybermaster98: Feb 3 2014, 10:14 PM

Tis again is another silly statement but this time im not gonna rebut using my argument. Ill let the expert Paul Tan deal with this false accusation of yours. So please read this article to the end and then come tell me that Paul Tan is wrong and you are right.

Can i bring your attention to Paul Tan's exact words in the this article in the 3rd last paragraph:

'On the comfort front, the Cerato has them all licked'

The article itself:
http://paultan.org/2013/07/04/driven-kia-c...alaysian-roads/

But then again, what does Paul Tan know about cars and comfort right? he's just a noob right? Ure so much more of an expert than him.

(Btw, again im not saying the Cerato is a great car worthy of top sales or purchase so dont mince my words yea?!)

Why dont you get Jeremy's review and post it here? Till now you have yet to provide any tangible data to suport your argument besides your 'i feel it so it must be true' line.

Btw, did i ever say that the Cerato is bigger than the Forte? If i have, please copy and paste my exact comment here.

When its clear that you have been proven wrong and with proof, be man enough to admit and move on la. The more you argue the more ure embarassing yourself even to the extent of claiming that Paul Tan is biased in his reviews.

Again, did i say that Cerato sales are better than Altis or Civic? The more you talk the more ure embarassing yourself la. Aiyoo its not even funny at more.

He already knows he has made a mistake and he knows he is screwed. Best thing is that he assumes that im a Cerato supporter just because i whacked him with facts which didnt support his notion that the Cerato was crap.

But wht really baffles me how he can claim that Paultan is biased and therefore his review is crap but what his 2 brothers and 'expert' friend are Gospel truth?

This is clearly a case of shooting ones mouth off without having sufficient knowledge about cars or doing proper research. In any case im still awaiting his response on the legroom factor which he brought up earlier. Ive provided the raw data and measurements of all dimensions but till now no response.

Still pending his response.

Yes bro. Ure perfectly right. Resale value should be the ONLY factor which determines a car purchase. Safety, specs, value for money, etc should NEVER be considered at all. Great on ya!

Yes i dont quite like the overall design of the Cerato. The rear lights are oversized for sure.

Why does the FL K5 look weird? Seems alright to me.

The price increase is justified since there were a few good additions e.g 2 ventilated front seats, better leather quality on all seats, electronic parking brake, drive mode select, electric power steering, better rear combination lights and new sports rims.

Nowadays most car manufacturers offer 5 years unlimited mileage warranties. So not a real issue. Plus warranties only cover defects not wear & tear except for BMW's BSRI package.