Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bump Topic Topic Closed RSS Feed
8 Pages < 1 2 3 4 > » Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 4 Critical Signs of a Bubble Market V2, Is Malaysia in a bubble?

views
     
icemanfx
post Jan 15 2014, 08:15 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(chengcheng @ Jan 15 2014, 08:08 PM)
Is there such thing as a car bubble?

I think nowadays many youngster will buy expensive car of RM 250 k then buy a property.

The installment is probably equivalent to buying a house.

And yet, I see so many new BMWs and Mercedes on the road.

Car bubble? Possible?
*
Car bubble existed in kangkong land but burst in 1997. At one period, a 6 months old potong wira could worth the same price or higher than brand new.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jan 15 2014, 08:16 PM
gspirit01
post Jan 15 2014, 08:34 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Senior Member
773 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(OPT @ Jan 15 2014, 04:35 PM)
"got price no market"?  hmm.gif

Means dreaming?  whistling.gif
*
Plenty of these in KL and Selangor.
twincharger07
post Jan 15 2014, 09:01 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
4,788 posts

Joined: Feb 2011
QUOTE(icemanfx @ Jan 15 2014, 08:12 PM)
After QE tapering, interest rate is expected to return to pre-2008 level e.g. 3% higher than current.

How many people will be trapped?
*
i think u r missing the point.. BLR may fluctuate, yes.. but pre-subprime era was BLR+1% n now BLR-2.4%..

even if BLR shoot up to 9%, effective rate is 9-2.4%, and if BLR was 9% in 2006, it will be 9+1%.. wat i m saying is there is already a 3% delta given any BLR fluctuation.. that is why I m comparing today BLR 6.6% vs BLR 6.75% in 2006 still pretty comparable, but the difference in effective rate by 3% can change the monthly commitment by hundred and for some thousand permonth..

I m not good or dont wanna predict QE or looking at crystal ball like you guys la.. just questioning, does pre-subprime affordability still comparable than now given rates difference that is regardless of BLR..
Maneki-neko
post Jan 15 2014, 09:32 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,816 posts

Joined: May 2013
QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jan 15 2014, 10:06 AM)
Continuation from Version 1 which was quite a hot topic with 2646 posts and 135,824 views since 15 Nov 2013:

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3031756
The collapse of the US housing market bubble emphasizes how important it is to figure out what property is really worth, from a fundamental perspective. Make sure you’re not over-paying!

There are 4 yardsticks to avoid buying in bubble markets:

•Price to Rent Ratio (or Yield)
•Relative Prices
•Affordability
•Price of new builds
VALUATION TOOL 1: THE PRICE TO RENT RATIO

The gross rental yield) is the housing parallel to the price/earnings ratio. Here is a set of rules of thumb for the housing market:

VALUATION YARDSTICKS FOR THE HOUSING MARKET

PRICE/RENT RATIO GROSS RENTAL YIELD (%)
5 20 Very undervalued
6.7 15 Very undervalued
8.3 12 Undervalued
10 10 Undervalued
12.5 8 Borderline undervalued
14.2 7 Fairly priced
16.7 6 Fairly priced
20 5 Borderline overvalued
25 4 Overvalued
33.3 3 Overvalued
40 2.5 Very overvalued
50 2 Very overvalued

But there are exceptions to this. When strong future growth in value is expected e.g in areas where transport infrastructure is being upgraded then relatively weak present earnings can be acceptable.

There are several good reasons why people should pay attention to the 'valuation parameters':

Higher rental yields push the housing market higher

If rental yield levels are high, this will tend to mean that the interest cost of buying a house is low, compared to the cost of renting a house:

•Potential buyers will pay less to borrow from the bank (in order to buy) than they pay when renting a house. Many will move from being renters to buyers.
•Entrepreneurs will find it makes sense to buy houses to make money, i.e., buy in order to rent them out.

Both these factors put upward pressure on house prices.

Lower rental yields put downward pressure house prices

If rental yield levels are low, this will tend to mean that the interest cost of buying a house is high, compared to the cost of renting a house:

•Potential buyers will find that to buy a house involves paying much more to the bank, than it costs to rent a house. Buyers, especially first-time buyers, may have difficulty financing housing. Banks will be worried about over-lending at loan-to-income ratios which mean that a slight increase in interest rates will mean financial crisis for the borrower.
•Entrepreneurs will find that buying-to-let won't pay.

The house price can be viewed as a kind of circle, with houses prices moving from yields of (say) 4% to 11%

•Yields shifting down to 4% would represent danger.
•Yields rising to 11% would signal opportunity.
VALUATION TOOL 2: RELATIVE PRICES

People tend to actively look for cheaper and better alternatives. Where houses are very highly priced, people will seek more affordable alternatives. So if you’re buying property that’s amazingly expensive on a sqaure foot basis compared to its surrounding developments – BEWARE!
VALUATION TOOL 3: AFFORDABILITY

If house prices are so high that few people can actually afford to buy them, then their value will likely fall in future. A reasonable measure of value is a country’s GDP per capita. In a country where the ratio of house prices to GDP/capita is high, it’s a fair bet that houses are overvalued.

Relative to GDP/Capita levels:
•House prices in Luxembourg, Belgium, Norway, Denmark and Austria seem cheap.
•House prices in the UK, Italy, France and the Netherlands seem comparatively expensive.
VALUATION TOOL 4: PRICE OF NEW BUILDS

If house prices are much higher than the cost of building (construction costs), developers are motivated to put up buildings. So when you see a rush by developers to build, that’s a danger sign. As new supply comes into the housing market, that tends to put pressure on prices. So when house prices are far greater than new-build costs, it's a very clear signal that prices are likely to come down.
*
notworthy.gif
Maneki-neko
post Jan 15 2014, 09:44 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,816 posts

Joined: May 2013
QUOTE(chengcheng @ Jan 15 2014, 08:08 PM)
Is there such thing as a car bubble?

I think nowadays many youngster will buy expensive car of RM 250 k then buy a property.

The installment is probably equivalent to buying a house.

And yet, I see so many new BMWs and Mercedes on the road.

Car bubble? Possible?
*
Car where got bubble 1? Modern ppl will always think that, live as if there's no tomorrow cool2.gif
bearbearwong
post Jan 15 2014, 10:30 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,533 posts

Joined: Jun 2013


Gud one cybermaster.. we shall brain storm for better ideas ok...
OPT
post Jan 16 2014, 06:55 AM

Wee wang wang
*******
Senior Member
2,065 posts

Joined: Feb 2011
More and more DDD news surfacing...


Property market to cool down: MIEA

Jan 15, 2014 - PropertyGuru.com.my

Malaysia’s real estate sector is expected to rebound in 2016, but it will need at least two years to get accustomed to the various cooling measures that took effect in January, according to the Malaysian Institute of Estate Agents President Siva Shanker.

“The market ground to a standstill after Budget 2014. There was a knee-jerk reaction in sales. It will probably stay in the doldrums for the first half of 2014. The second half may be better,” said Shanker, who is also CEO of real estate consultancy PPC International Sdn Bhd.

Nevertheless, he believes that the new property curbs have effectively curtailed rampant speculation.

“The days of 20 to 40 percent appreciation in property prices after only a few years are over. It is no more a joy to speculate.”

Another positive thing he noticed is that the secondary market is making a comeback due to its more affordable prices. For example, units at a newly-launched project in Bangsar is selling for RM1,500 psf, while the price range of an existing home is just RM800 to RM1,00 psf.

Meanwhile, CIMB Research is more optimistic. It believes that demand for houses will gradually return in 2H 2013, when buyers realise that a correction is unlikely due to prevailing market forces. Instead of price drops, the subsidy cuts and the inflationary pressure of the upcoming goods and services tax will result in higher property values.

“As these macro prudential and policy measures are meant to curb speculation and not restrain genuine demand, the impact (though negative in the short term) should be positive over the longer run because they should help to remove froth from some segments of the market.”

“Also, affordability remains close to its highest ever. Robust sales by developers should provide impetus for a re-rating of property stocks,” added CIMB.

Read it all here:
http://www.propertyguru.com.my/en/property...m_content=links

TScybermaster98
post Jan 16 2014, 09:40 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
4,440 posts

Joined: Jan 2010
From: Kuala Lumpur


Everybody in Norway a theoretical millionaire from 8 January

Can any oil producing country in the world make all her citizens millionaires via prudent management and savings? Norway achieved that on Jan 8 2014, 45 years after striking oil in the North Sea in 1969. But it only set up its oil sovereign wealth fund (SWF) in 1990, meaning it took the Norwegians only 24 years to be millionaires. The fund is called the Government Pension Fund Global.

According to a Reuters report, everyone in Norway became a theoretical crown millionaire on Jan 8 in a milestone for the world’s biggest sovereign wealth fund that has ballooned thanks to high oil and gas prices. The fund owns one per cent of the world’s stocks, bonds and real estate from London to Boston, making the Nordic nation an exception when others are struggling under a mountain of debts.

A preliminary counter on the website of the central bank, which manages the fund, rose to 5.11 trillion kroner (US$828.66 billion or RM2.7 trillion), fractionally more than a million times Norway’s most recent official population estimate of 5,096,300. It was the first time it reached the equivalent of a million crowns each, central bank spokesman Thomas Sevang said.

Not that Norwegians will be able to access or spend the money, squirreled away for a rainy day for them and future generations. Norway has resisted the temptation to splurge all the windfall since its oil strike. But what it does it ensure that the citizens of Norway will never experience an economic slowdown if the fund is managed well.

Finance Minister Siv Jensen told Reuters the fund had helped iron out big, unpredictable swings in oil and gas prices. Norway is the world's number seven oil exporter.

“Many countries have found that temporary large revenues from natural resource exploitation produce relatively short-lived booms that are followed by difficult adjustments,” she said in an email.

The fund, equivalent to 183 per cent of 2013 GDP, is expected to peak at 220 per cent around 2030 which ensures good times ahead for citizens of Norway.

“The fund is a success in the sense that Norwegian Government has managed to put aside money for the future. There are many examples of countries that have failed to manage that,” said Oeystein Doerum, chief economist at DNB Markets.

In Malaysia, only the Prime Minister has access to national oil producer Petronas’ funds and accounts not Parliament which ensures that oil returns from Petronas can be spent by the PM without having to get Parliament approval.

Malaysia is the 27th largest oil producer in the world, rolling out 693,700 barrels/day. Only 114 countries were listed as at 2009 and 2010.

Norway rolls out 2,350,000 bbl/day or 4 times more than Malaysia but what’s the financial position of Malaysia? A federal debt of up to RM700 billion! (as revealed by then Deputy International Trade and Industry Minister Datuk Seri Mukhriz Mahathir at end of 2012).

The Prime Minister’s Department also revealed that 16,306 people, or an average of 60 Malaysians daily, had been declared bankrupt in the first nine months of 2013. Standard & Poor also revealed in its report that Malaysia has one of the highest ratios of household debt to disposable income in the world, with its current level of 140% outstripping even that of the US (123%).

And what has Malaysia done with its oil money? Has the Malaysian Government set up a special fund to guarantee the future of Malaysia? Yes it has. According to a written reply in Parliament by Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak, Petronas had contributed RM3 billion to the National Trust Fund (or Kwan, the acronym for Kumpulan Wang Amanah Negara which was set up in 1990) as at June 2011. He also said the money had been invested in various financial instruments and that Kwan’s fund currently stood at RM5.43 billion.

If Norway has a fund size of RM 2.7 trillion with its 4X more oil production, then a simple calculation should put Malaysia’s fund at RM 675 billion and yet we only have RM 5.43 billion?

Where have the remaining funds disappeared? Mind you this fund we are referring to here is solely for the purpose of safeguarding the future of Malaysians not to be used for general over-spending on a day to day basis. That money should come from other revenues. But in Malaysia’s case, its oil money has been siphoned off into ludicrous projects and over spending rife with corruption thus leaving very little for the rakyat.

The Malaysian PM said Kwan was set up to ensure that revenue from dwindling natural resources would benefit future generations. How is RM 5.43 billion going to ensure the future of Malaysians when our Government debt has reached astronomical levels of RM 700 billion?

Now, let’s take a more detailed look at how other oil producing countries are managing their oil revenue:

Kuwait (10th at 2,494,000 bbl/day), Libya (17th at 1,790,000 bbl/day), Kazakhstan (18th at 1,540,000 bbl/day), Algeria (15th at 2,125,000 bbl/day), South Korea (64th at 48,180 bbl/day) and Singapore (82nd at 10,910 bbl/day).

Malaysia’s non-commodity Khazanah Nasional, founded in 1993, is ranked 23rd with only US$34 billion in assets

The world’s largest, Norway’s Pension Fund Global, was in 2009 registered with assets worth US$664.3 billion

UAE-Abu Dhabi’s oil-based Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, established in 1976, is ranked second with US$627 billion

At third spot, China’s non-commodity SAFE Investment Company, which was founded in 1997, now manages assets worth US$567.9 billion

Singapore’s 2 investment arms, Investment Corporation & Temasek Holdins established in 1981 & 1974 respectively have combined assets worth US$405 billion despite not having much natural resources.

Even countries like Kuwait, which was severely damaged by Iraq’s bombing and brief occupation, Libya, Kazakhstan, Algeria and South Korea, which were far poorer than Malaysia in the 80s, are all managing their country’s wealth better than Malaysia.

Isnt Malaysia’s economic and financial standing truly shocking? In light of this, can we be sure that the property market can continue to sustain itself in future or are we heading for a collapse the likes of Greece?

Just a thought!

This post has been edited by cybermaster98: Jan 16 2014, 09:41 AM
icemanfx
post Jan 16 2014, 09:49 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012



House prices in Hong Kong are overvalued by an estimated 30-40% - one of the highest overvaluations in the world. Based on the IMF estimate of the price-to-rent ratio, it's 33 times more expensive to buy a property in the city than to rent.

When the last bubble burst in 1997 during the Asian financial crisis, Hong Kong's property prices fell by more than 60% and continued to decline for six years. Now, house prices are 13 times the average salary - higher than even during the last bubble.

The trouble with bubbly markets is that once interest rates rise - which is starting to happen with the US Fed reining back on its cheap cash injections as of this month - so does the risk of the bubble bursting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25742539

Land in HK is more limited than kv.

Price to rent ratio of 33 is equivalent to rent is 3% of property value.


icemanfx
post Jan 16 2014, 09:55 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jan 16 2014, 09:40 AM)
The Prime Minister’s Department also revealed that 16,306 people, or an average of 60 Malaysians daily, had been declared bankrupt in the first nine months of 2013. Standard & Poor also revealed in its report that Malaysia has one of the highest ratios of household debt to disposable income in the world, with its current level of 140% outstripping even that of the US (123%).
*
Scandinavian Debt Crisis Waiting to Happen Puzzles Krugman

Scandinavia, which attracted investors during Europe’s sovereign debt crisis, is now coming under international scrutiny on concern that record household debt levels from Denmark to Sweden aren’t sustainable.

“You wonder if that’s a crisis waiting to happen,” Nobel Laureate Paul Krugman said in a Jan. 9 interview in Copenhagen. “I’m not sure, but it’s nervous-making.”

In Denmark, consumers owe their creditors 321 percent of disposable incomes, a world record that the Paris-based OECD said in November demands a policy response. In Sweden, debt by that measure is close to 180 percent, a level the government and central bank say can’t be allowed to rise. Norway’s central bank has struggled to find a policy mix that addresses its 200 percent private debt burden.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-13/n...sing-debts.html


TScybermaster98
post Jan 16 2014, 10:04 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
4,440 posts

Joined: Jan 2010
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(icemanfx @ Jan 16 2014, 09:55 AM)
Norway’s central bank has struggled to find a policy mix that addresses its 200 percent private debt burden.
Isnt Norway's debt at 28.80% of GDP at in 2012?
kochin
post Jan 16 2014, 11:09 AM

I just hope I do!
********
All Stars
10,318 posts

Joined: Dec 2009
From: Malaysia


QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jan 16 2014, 09:40 AM)
Everybody in Norway a theoretical millionaire from 8 January

Malaysia’s non-commodity Khazanah Nasional, founded in 1993, is ranked 23rd with only US$34 billion in assets

The world’s largest, Norway’s Pension Fund Global, was in 2009 registered with assets worth US$664.3 billion

UAE-Abu Dhabi’s oil-based Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, established in 1976, is ranked second with US$627 billion

At third spot, China’s non-commodity SAFE Investment Company, which was founded in 1997, now manages assets worth US$567.9 billion

Singapore’s 2 investment arms, Investment Corporation & Temasek Holdins established in 1981 & 1974 respectively have combined assets worth US$405 billion despite not having much natural resources.

Even countries like Kuwait, which was severely damaged by Iraq’s bombing and brief occupation, Libya, Kazakhstan, Algeria and South Korea, which were far poorer than Malaysia in the 80s, are all managing their country’s wealth better than Malaysia.

Isnt Malaysia’s economic and financial standing truly shocking? In light of this, can we be sure that the property market can continue to sustain itself in future or are we heading for a collapse the likes of Greece?

Just a thought!
*
boss, why use khazanah nasional instead of EPF?
is khazanah trusted with managing income derived from oil and gas?


bearbearwong
post Jan 16 2014, 12:23 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,533 posts

Joined: Jun 2013


QUOTE(kochin @ Jan 16 2014, 11:09 AM)
boss, why use khazanah nasional instead of EPF?
is khazanah trusted with managing income derived from oil and gas?
*
Hmm wat are you trying to say..? That we still should BBB? And prop is affordable or sth else???
evanesence117
post Jan 16 2014, 02:43 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Senior Member
769 posts

Joined: Oct 2006
From: Kajang, Selangor


QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jan 16 2014, 10:04 AM)
Isnt Norway's debt at 28.80% of GDP at in 2012?
*
Private debt here is probably referring to household debt, whereas the 28.8% refers to public (government) debt to GDP.

I think the ratios in Malaysia are around 55% public debt (excluding contingent liabilities) to GDP and 84% household debt to GDP.
kochin
post Jan 16 2014, 06:13 PM

I just hope I do!
********
All Stars
10,318 posts

Joined: Dec 2009
From: Malaysia


QUOTE(bearbearwong @ Jan 16 2014, 12:23 PM)
Hmm wat are you trying to say..? That we still should BBB? And prop is affordable or sth else???
*
How on earth did you derive to this conclusion basing on the question I posed? hmm.gif hmm.gif hmm.gif
SUStmdsad
post Jan 16 2014, 06:46 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,176 posts

Joined: Oct 2013
Today, we have revised our 2014 sales (res) down with 22% compare with our last year.

For Commercial. We have stop 2014 launching. Delay it to 2015.





bearbearwong
post Jan 16 2014, 06:59 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,533 posts

Joined: Jun 2013


QUOTE(tmdsad @ Jan 16 2014, 06:46 PM)
Today, we  have revised our 2014 sales (res) down with 22% compare with our  last year.

For Commercial. We have stop 2014 launching. Delay it to 2015.
*
Who are we in this sentence
value_investor
post Jan 16 2014, 08:24 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
493 posts

Joined: Sep 2010
I tell you the truth, when real estate crashes 90% of you will not have the balls to buy. When bubbles burst it usually comes hand in hand with, stock market crash, currency crash, job market crash, high interest rate, etc.

The good news is I'm in the 10%, which means the rich will always get richer!
AVFAN
post Jan 16 2014, 08:31 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,455 posts

Joined: Nov 2010
QUOTE(tmdsad @ Jan 16 2014, 06:46 PM)
Today, we  have revised our 2014 sales (res) down with 22% compare with our  last year.

For Commercial. We have stop 2014 launching. Delay it to 2015.
*
some may just brush off yr statement. i don't.

it's f'ing miserable for me to cut revenues yoy by even 5%.

22% - that says it all. well, it's not 32%, yet. tongue.gif

thanks for comment, appreciate it.

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Jan 16 2014, 08:33 PM
Wiredx
post Jan 16 2014, 08:33 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
592 posts

Joined: May 2010
QUOTE(value_investor @ Jan 16 2014, 08:24 PM)
I tell you the truth, when real estate crashes 90% of you will not have the balls to buy. When bubbles burst it usually comes hand in hand with, stock market crash, currency crash, job market crash, high interest rate, etc.

The good news is I'm in the 10%, which means the rich will always get richer!
*
Good for you man

8 Pages < 1 2 3 4 > » Top
Topic ClosedOptions
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0199sec    0.68    6 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 10th December 2025 - 09:20 PM