4K BLuray DRM Encryption With Online Validation And/OR Activation

My comments here may contain errors or mistakes so please do correct me if I am wrong in any part. Feel free to disagree with me.

A "feature" in AACS 2.0 for 4K blurays is the inclusion of online activation and verification which is mandatory for manufacturers of any 4K bluray players or "hadware". THAT feature IS already inside the UDP-203. Its NOT compulsory for film companies to include such activation in the 4K bluray disc. Its the same thing for Cinavia... to get the bluray license, manufacturers of bluray players are compulsory "forced" to add in Cinavia BUT film companies can decide whether or not to put Cinavia into their blurays so that is why not all blurays have this "virus" inside.

What this means for 4K blurays is that the film companies CAN (if they want to) add in online activation inside the disc. When this happens, the player (UDP-203) tries to read a "key file" (I put it simply) stored in the disc.... and when its "missing", the player will request to go online to get the "key". This key is saved in the player which identifies that particular disc and only then the disc will be played as usual.

Right now, such activation process is not necessary because the film companies have not add in such activation requirement in the current 4K bluray releases. The "key file" is already stored inside the disc, so the player can play it without requiring any activation. At least not yet for now. In my personal opinion, I guess the reason is "partly" because they want 4K bluray to become popular and its still "too early" to add in activation. Who knows?... once 4K blurays becomes the mainstream popular format, then we MAY or MAY NOT suddenly get hit with this grrrr.... monster!

What is the big problem with such online activation of the 4K disc? Actually no problem... if you look at what many computer software at already doing such as Microsoft Wndows 10 which requires internet to activate. When any OEM software is bought together with the pc hardware, the software cannot be "transferred" to another pc. You can transfer if you buy the Retail Version BUT have to pay much more.

What does this mean for 4K bluray (or 1080p bluray) discs that have the requirement for online activation? Well... I saw a discussion about this in a forum (the link is below). There are a few issues that troubles me. What happens when the disc is "locked" to a specific player to play and we cannot use another player to play the same disc? What happens when the player is spoilt and needs to be replaced? What happens if we need to be online each time we play any disc? What happens when people legally rent such discs? When happens IF we are not allowed to play a disc purchased in the US eventhough its the same Region A player (location identified using IP check)?

DRM encryption already exist in DVD and Blurays but it has been broken, allowing ripping. AFAIK, AACS 2.0 is still unbroken and the "additional DRM" online validation or activation is new to 4K bluray. If anyone were to ask me whether such online validation/activation will appear in the future... eventough not now, I don't think it will show its ugly head in 4K blurays BUT... there is a possibility that it may come. So... I will continue to keep my BDP-105D player to play blurays and YES, I will still buy the 4K bluray player with its damn good picture quality. IF it does appear in the future... I can only curse those film companies. At the present moment, we cannot backup a copy of the legally purchased genuine 4K bluray to a NAS harddisk because AACS 2.0 has not been cracked yet.

Such online validation/activation makes me feel a bit reluctant to embrace 4K blurays... the problem for me is... this 4K thing really makes me fall in love with it!

Reference Links...
Oppo 103D/105D last model without online activation
Connect to internet to play disc
Sony reveals AACS 2.0 details



This post has been edited by jamesleetech: Dec 17 2016, 04:09 PM

can we use hdmi and rca at the same time on a LED tv?

basically hdmi for video, but sound using my external speaker connecting to rca?

Yes

The tv can auto detect which to output the audio? Or both TV internal speaker and external speaker will have sound?

Not sure if you need to configure the setting of the player.
Another option is HDMI to TV, and output RCA from TV to external speaker.

Mmm... I want to understand more clearly on what you want here. Its confusing without enough info.

Ok... I will make assumptions here so do correct me if its not what you want.

Assumption 1
If you want to use RCA audio out from TV to your speakers, then not possible when RCA Analog Stereo out is not available on TVs. Normally there are TVs (not all) which do have Optical Audio out or (maybe) Co-axial out which allow connection to an AVR. Connecting Opt Out in this way allows a "smart TV" with internet browser or online apps (Netflix) to output sound to the AVR instead of only the TV speakers.

Assumption 2
Mmm... bluray players now already do not have RCA analog stereo out to connect to any AVR or active speakers.

When you say "using my external speaker connecting to RCA"... you meant your speakers are "Active" ones which have its internal amp and can accept input directly from source players.

Assuming your "old" player have analog RCA stereo out, you want to connect...
"bluray or DVD player" HDMI >> directly to your TV.
Same "bluray or DVD player" RCA out connect to "active" external speakers.

Yes, you can when active speakers are used. No, when passive speakers are used, that need an AVR or Pre+Power Amp.

If correct, I assume that you do not have an AVR. So you want to use your player to use your external speakers instead of sound from your TV. I guess you set your player to decode audio as "PCM" out (not bitstream). Mmm... you want better sound from your speakers instead of your TV when playing DVD, bluray, etc.

Assumption 3
You have an older Astro Decoder which have analog RCA Stereo Out.

You don't want to use any AVR. You just connect Astro HDMI directly to TV and then Astro RCA out to your active external speakers. The Astro "Digital Audio" settings must use "Stereo (Analogue and Digital). So you want better sound for Astro by using your external speakers, not from TV speakers.

Yes, you can. Obviously no 5.1 surround audio for 2 external speakers.

▓▒▓▒▓▒▓▒▓▒▓▒▓▒▓▒▓▒▓▒▓▒▓▒▓▒▓

If none of the above, then please let me know in more detail such as...
(1) what player or source is used?
(2) player connect to what?
(3) is there any TV out connection?
(4) active or passive speakers?
(5) is there any AVR used?
(6) what is the purpose you want to use HDMI for video and RCA for audio?

If possible, it will help by drawing a simple diagram showing all the hardware connections that you want.

This post has been edited by jamesleetech: Dec 20 2016, 03:30 PM

thanks for your reply and effort on putting up assumption.. basically my tv internal speaker quality is very bad, and i just want to simply output the audio to external speaker which using RCA ports.. at the moment most of the time i'm watching @stro.. so i think Assumption3 applicable to me though it is not an older decoder..

another question, if i also have @ppleTV connected to the tv second hdmi, can the sound output to external speaker as well?

i think my tv doesn't have optical audio out nor co-axial out, but the speaker does.

hope u und me

You can use your Astro decoder HDMI out to TV for the video... and Astro RCA (Red and White) out to external speakers for the audio. Astro digital audio setting must NOT use "Dolby Digital 5.1 (Digital only)" which will cause no audio out from the decoder RCA.



If you want to connect "anything" to your speakers RCA, whether can or cannot will depend on the source (Astro, AppleTV, DVD Player, CD Player, etc)

That AppleTV or any other source must support RCA stereo output and its setting must be set to Analogue Stereo. Do not set source audio to Digital or Bitstream.

If the source output audio ONLY in Digital 2.0 or 5.1 or 7.1... then cannot use RCA. Must change source setting to decode and change the digital audio to analogue stereo.

When your 2 stereo (Active Type) speakers with builtin amp only have 2 stereo RCA In, then you can only get sound from the source Stereo Analogue.

5.1/7.1 Active Type External Speaker System (with or without builtin Dolby Digital decoding)
If you want better sound from the Active type speakers, get a 5.1 external speaker system with Optical/Co-axial Digital Input. If the source (AppleTV, Astro, etc) have Optical/Co-axial Out, then it can connect to the 5.1 speakers using just 1 cable. Many reasonably cheap 5.1 speaker types can be found in PC shops (Lowyat Plaza). If the 5.1 Speakers do not support Dolby Digital and/or DTS, the source audio setting MUST set to decode audio as "Analogue".

For Astro, no point getting 5.1 external active type speaker system. When Astro decoder is set to "Dolby Digital 5.1 (Digital only)"... no sound out from Astro Co-axial. Setting to "Stereo (Analogue and Digital)" is only 2 channels. My Astro PVR do have 1 Co-axial Out but I don't know if the new ones have Co-axial or Optical out or not.

This post has been edited by jamesleetech: Dec 20 2016, 05:38 PM

thanks alot mate! this is good explanation.. i think i will go with the easiest setup - You can use your Astro decoder HDMI out to TV for the video... and Astro RCA (Red and White) out to external speakers for the audio. Astro digital audio setting must NOT use "Dolby Digital 5.1 (Digital only)" which will cause no audio out from the decoder RCA

You are welcome. Mmm... my problem is usually writing too long explanations or comments. Bad habit.

Mmm, whenever I see your name in tracking notice, I won't open it until I find time to read. TLDR?

TLDR?

Oh... TL;DR ... just found out... Too Long, Didn't Read.

Up to you, its your right to ridicule so its not a compliment. You are smarter than me. No problem. I deserve it for trying to help others here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TL;DR

This post has been edited by jamesleetech: Dec 20 2016, 06:56 PM

Hey, James, you misunderstood. I read all your posts actually. Just that I have been hearing this ad about TLDR on BFM lately, and think there could be others who might skip long posts. No offense intended.

No problem. No harm done.

I actually didn't know about TL;DR until I found out from Wikipedia which "generally" mean negative view of people who write too long. That is why I misunderstood you.

Still no problem... nobody can expect everyone to agree or disagree. Anyone do have the right to choose not to read my post loh. Yes, no offense intended by you BUT you ARE right in saying that I write too long. My Bad.

This post has been edited by jamesleetech: Dec 20 2016, 07:06 PM

Keep them coming, I am sure there are many like me who enjoy reading your posts, especially the experience you shared in them. Cheers!

Not all bad habit is bad, they are good some times. I'll try it out the method and let you know again if it works wonder.

Hi sifu, is there anyway we can turn off the smart function of our smart tv.tq

Thanks.

Good or bad depends on how each person thinks. I respect that. Anyway, when it works, I "believe" the audio should be better than the TV internal speakers. Yeah, you expect the same too.

Depends on the TV. Most TVs from 2016 probably cannot, because the TV functions on the OS itself. It's no longer an overlay like say with TVs from 2013.

Usually disabling the smart TV features requires going into the debug/factory settings mode. How? I don't know, too many variable different ways.

I am not expert on Smart TV features and settings. I can just tell you a little on what I know on my Samsung 4K 3D TV Series 8 (55 inch).

You mean "disable" the whole "Smart Features", no internet browser, no YouTube, and ALL the apps ?? I don't think they allow us to disable or remove the whole TV Smart Apps feature. Samsung TV calls it "Smart Hub". If this is what you mean, then I believe NO because its integrated into the TV firmware. I also cannot find any setting in the TV to disable it.

For Samsung, different apps appear in its "Smart" categories which changes regularly. Before you can run (play) any app, select it to download and then install it. After installed, you can delete (uninstall) apps that you don't want by using remote, point to app to be deleted then long press the remote "OK/Enter" button until a menu appears that shows the "Delete" selection. My TV remote has a invisible pointer that shows on TV screen as a bright spot which is used to select any choices.



But... what is usable on my TV do NOT mean different brands and also different models work the same way. Different TVs have different settings so I really don't know for other brands. Even my Samsung Series 8 may work slightly differently when compared to other Series 7 or 9.

Mmm... why you want to "turn off" the TV Smart function? Annoying you when it appears after you pressed the wrong remote button? The Smart function do not slow down the TV processing speed. Also, when TV is disconnected from the internet, no app will work so it won't bother you. If you don't want your kids to "play" with the "smart apps", I think the only thing you can do is disconnect the LAN cable from the TV or change the WiFi password so that the TV cannot connect wirelessly.

This post has been edited by jamesleetech: Dec 20 2016, 09:09 PM