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 Has Soundbars Improved to Usable Levels?

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Andrewtst
post Apr 15 2019, 09:54 PM

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QUOTE(GHOSTVIC @ Apr 15 2019, 09:26 PM)
I see, what about the sound delays i am hearing about... how it happens
OPTION A : astro / android box --> TV (hdmi in) --> soundbar (hdmi arc out / optical)
OPTION B : astro / android box --> soundbar (hmdi in) --> TV (hdmi arc out / optical)
both option giving different sound ha... LG spec desciption not detail enough as SONY saying about the ports and what sound can be delivered. Atleast user can have idea.

Example for SONY HTX9000F Audio Formats

HDMI input - Dolby® Digital, Dolby Digital Plus™, Dolby® TrueHD, Dolby Atmos®,Dolby® Dual mono,DTS®,DTS-HD High Resolution Audio™,DTS-HD Master Audio™,DTS-ES,DTS 96/24,DTS:X™,LPCM(2ch / 5.1ch / 7.1ch), DSD(2ch / 5.1ch)

Optical Input - Dolby® Digital,Dolby® Dual mono,DTS®, LPCM 2ch

USB - DSD(.dsf / .diff), Wav, Flac, Alac(.m4a only), AIFF, HE AAC, AAC, mp3, Monkey Audio, WMA, Ogg Vorbis

Bluetooth(Receiver) - SBC, AAC
[attachmentid=10227786][attachmentid=10227787]
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In the manual it only mentioned what setting can out Dolby Atmos. The rest didn't mentioned. Haha. You can get the manual here https://www.lg.com/us/support-product/lg-SK9Y

I think optical had limit to 2 channel even they is Dolby support. I not so sure. But pretty sure Dolby Atmos required direct connect device to soundbar HDMI in only.

They is sound delay when connecting device to TV HDMI in and later ARC to Soundbar. I Google seems this is common issue especially if your content is 4K which make it very obvious. That probably the reason why they is delay setting for you to adjust.

They is no sound delay issue when direct connect device to Soundbar HDMI in.

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 15 2019, 10:07 PM
Andrewtst
post Apr 16 2019, 08:43 AM

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QUOTE(skyforcerld @ Apr 16 2019, 08:34 AM)
I found there is delay even when using optical in from TV to AVR. Playing Netflix on my Android TV, output optical out to AVR. When both TV speaker and AVR speaker on, can clearly hear delay.

Problem is in AVR only can set delay the sound...which is already delayed...there is no way to move the sound a bit faster than what was received, unless there is some way to delay the video on the TV.

It is not that bad (compared to ARC which is giving me serious delay), but still noticeable a bit.

I think in the end, an external TV Box player is still the best to avoid so many problems!
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I didn't try optical. No idea. Probably only HDMI in at soundbar no delay.

Ya TV box is a must for full enjoyment in movies now.

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 16 2019, 08:44 AM
Andrewtst
post Apr 17 2019, 11:35 AM

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QUOTE(skyforcerld @ Apr 17 2019, 11:20 AM)
I see you survey survey, now ayam also poisoned....dang i can't get rid of my AVR...putting them in store room, also already full...waifu will rage....sweat.gif

Anyway, i have been thinking my setup also.

After much survey, i realized there is very little option to play Netflix 4K HDR and Dolby Atmos. Most of the solution is imperfect, expensive or lacking in some ways.

I realized there is one option to play it perfectly and i already have it.....using a PC...Windows 10 app Netflix is capable of all these (with the right hardware). My PCs are already capable of Netflix DD Atmos (it's shown in the app...on my Android TV, the Dolby Atmos won't appear). So all i need to do is connect my PC to a Soundbar and it should pass in as PCM or LPCM, meaning the PC will decode the DD Atmos from Windows 10 Netflix App. So voila! I don't care if the soundbar is not capabale of DD Atmos! I will pass decoded LPCM channels to it. Then i will have more options to choose from (as currently i am looking at soundbar with specifically DD Atmos).

Anyone care to comment? Is this workable?
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For LG, they is special setting for Atmos and it do sound different. It is more immersive compare with content not in Atmos mode. The Atmos mode is hidden and cannot activate manually.
Andrewtst
post Apr 17 2019, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(skyforcerld @ Apr 17 2019, 11:41 AM)
What do you mean it's hidden and cannot activate manually?

btw, does your soundbar have wireless or wired subwoofer?

I saw lots of SK8 for quite cheap used also, but it's 2.1 compared to 5.1 (or 5.2?) of the SK9, but rest of the features seems similar.
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It auto change to Atmos sound effect when detect source as Atmos. This Atmos profile is never a selection if no Atmos detect. Also others sound effect is gone when in Atmos.

Subwoofer is wireless.

SK9Y is 5.1.2 and big differences in sound quality compare with SK8Y.

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 17 2019, 11:46 AM
Andrewtst
post Apr 18 2019, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(skyforcerld @ Apr 17 2019, 04:37 PM)
Yeah, i think only Yamaha has such options, but then only a few specific models.

Btw, i read up on DTS:X on the YAS-207.

https://www.techhive.com/article/3244136/ya...207-review.html

This DTS:X really that good? Like these i can ignore Dolby Atmos already.

Most importantly in the review:
rclxms.gif
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Not many title in DTS:X, mostly is Dolby Atmos or DTS-HD only.

Actually not that important as long the output is awesome.

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 18 2019, 03:05 PM
Andrewtst
post Apr 18 2019, 03:08 PM

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QUOTE(skyforcerld @ Apr 18 2019, 03:00 PM)
My mistake, i meant DTS: Virtual X, which is supposely can be apply to any audio stream, no need special encoding.

Dolby Atmos titles not that many in Netflix also currently, but in future should increase.
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Oh ok.

Netflix and iTunes Dolby Atmos title is no way to compare to actual Dolby Atmos title from 4K UHD blu-ray because it is compress version, Stream version from Netflix and iTunes is Dolby Digital Plus with Dolby Atmos.

I had test same title and it is big differences. I don't said Netflix and iTunes are bad but once you compare then you know they is differences there.
Andrewtst
post Apr 18 2019, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(skyforcerld @ Apr 18 2019, 03:55 PM)
4. As long got pseudolistic surround sound, clear dialogue and looks neat is the main objective.
Another issue i have currently is dialogue from my AVR seems a bit soft, if turn on loud, the special effect suddenly like earthquake, waifu complain. I hope the soundbar can solve this problem? hmm.gif
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I think you need to have 2.0 soundbar or 5.0 soundbar, any good soundbar with .1 (sub-woofer) can make neighbor complain. Haha!
Andrewtst
post Apr 19 2019, 10:56 AM

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QUOTE(happyhaka @ Apr 19 2019, 08:20 AM)
Been looking at soundbars with about 2k budget. In my multiple store visits for some reason

Sony CT800 seems to sound better than HT Z9F

For similar pricepoints SK9 sounds better than Z9F

In this case then I find it a battle between CT800 and SK9 whereby both of then are at very diff pricepoints 1.2k and 2k respectively.

I wantes SK9 or Z9F since my main purpose is surround sound from my TV that has netflix and connected directly to the soundbar. Thought Atmos on both would sound better than CT800 only on dolby digital. What are your thoughts?
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Is your TV Netflix support Dolby Atmos as it depends on the playback device as well.

If your TV Netflix not support Dolby Atmos then you won't get Dolby Atmos output even though the Soundbar support it.

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 19 2019, 10:57 AM
Andrewtst
post Apr 19 2019, 10:38 PM

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QUOTE(GHOSTVIC @ Apr 19 2019, 07:36 PM)
Haa really ? So far i play netflix i can see 5.1 stated on title.
When check tv sound setting it automatically detects dolby digital, but for digital+ its saying need arc hdmi..

For the astro hd channels which dolby audio movies , got to enable audio setting in decoder. Change to digital5.1 so tv can detect.
That means my tv not capable of supporting dolby atmos so that is why i do not see any netflix title with dolbyatmos ?
Any movie which in dolbyatmos that you can see in your netflix app, so i can check in mine whether got any dolbyatmos sign or not..
user posted image[/url]

Ya none below shown dolbyatmos sign at title just 5.1

Okja (Dolby Atmos)
Blame! (Dolby Atmos)
Death Note (Dolby Atmos)
Wheelman (Dolby Atmos)
Another thing i read somewhere, LGSK9Y has trouble to detect ARC for samsung NU8000.
Just had plan of buying LGSK9Y, Now in dilemma of brand compatibility issue
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Your TV not support Dolby Atmos, actually most TV not support Dolby Atmos.

I had check the 1st one Okja and that title is Dolby Atmos title and you are correct it won't show you Dolby Atmos as label if they is no Dolby Atmos support in your system.

You can ask the shop test connection LG SK9Y with Samsung NU8000 to confirm working or not. No one can answer you this unless they is a person have NU8000 + LG SK9Y.
Andrewtst
post Apr 19 2019, 10:43 PM

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QUOTE(happyhaka @ Apr 19 2019, 09:11 PM)
I see. Well Im using a Sharp model 6800x. I checked specs and it says it has dolby decoder. Though it doesnt specify which dolby decoder specifically. Like if it is just dolby digital or what not. Do you have any idea how can I dig more into that?
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Most TV not support Dolby Atmos. From https://my.sharp/products/tvav/lc60ua6800x mentioned Dolby Audio which normally is Dolby Digital, if the TV support Dolby Atmos, I believe it will get big advertise about it.

From Netflix website, it mentioned following is support Dolby Atmos.
  • Apple TV 4K (requires tvOS 12 or later) <-- I am using this, I can confirmed the Neflix app inside this TV Box support Dolby Atmos.
  • LG OLED TVs (2017 or newer models)
  • Panasonic TVs (2019 or newer models) <-- My model is 2018 and I also can confirmed my TV Netflix not support Dolby Atmos.
  • Pixela 4K Smart Tuner
  • Roku TVs (2018 or newer models)
  • Sony BRAVIA Android TVs (2018 or newer models)
  • Toshiba TVs (2019 or newer models)
  • Vizio TVs (2018 or newer models)
  • Windows 10 computer or tablet (requires Windows 10 RS3 Build 16299 or later)
  • Xbox One, Xbox One S, and Xbox One X
https://help.netflix.com/en/node/64066

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 19 2019, 11:08 PM
Andrewtst
post Apr 20 2019, 01:08 AM

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QUOTE(GHOSTVIC @ Apr 20 2019, 12:55 AM)
aishh.. i should have got this ARC information earlier so that i could have tested LG SK9Y with NU8000 at harvey norman.. since they have demo units.

so even if i connect tv to soundbar which supports dolby atmos, i still would not be able to hear atmos since my tv not supports ?
what if i play netflix from android box which supports atmos, plug straight to atmos soundbar , then to TV... is it works ?
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To get Dolby Atmos in Netflix, you need either of following.

1) TV with Dolby Atmos support + Dolby Atmos Soundbar.
2) TV without Dolby Atmos support but with TV Box that support Dolby Atmos (currently only Apple TV 4K support) + HDMI in at Dolby Atmos Soundbar.
3) TV without Dolby Atmos support but with gamer device support Dolby Atmos (currently only Xbox support) + HDMI in at Dolby Atmos Soundbar.

They is no Android TV Box support Netflix in Dolby Atmos included Nvidia Shield even though Nvidia Shield can support Dolby Atmos in others apps but not in Netflix apps because Netflix not support it, not because Android TV OS not capable.

So you only have 3 options now for Netflix in Dolby Atmos
1) Buy Apple TV 4K
2) Buy Xbox
3) Buy New TV

* I exclude Pixela 4K Smart Tuner because that box is Japan country tuner box even though this box is running Android TV OS but I doubt you can get it or fully utilize it, the tuner part sure won't work but others apps in Android TV possible can but cannot guarantee if they set country specific.

Or don't buy anything now, wait for eARC, off course you need to get a new TV and also Soundbar using eARC that required HDMI 2.1 tongue.gif
With eARC, they is no compromise of sound output as it is big enough bandwidth to pass thru Dolby Atmos in Dolby TrueHD even you connect your device to TV and later to SoundBar. For the moment the reason why device need connect to soundbar HDMI-IN instead of TV is due to bandwidth issue at HDMI 2.0, I read further TV Dolby Atmos support is compress version of Dolby Digital Plus instead of Dolby TrueHD. Anyway Netflix is only running compress version of Dolby Atmos in Dolby Digital Plus not Dolby TrueHD.

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 20 2019, 01:58 AM
Andrewtst
post Apr 20 2019, 12:26 PM

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QUOTE(happyhaka @ Apr 20 2019, 08:03 AM)
Thanks for the response! Saw that you went for SK9. Have you also tried SK8? On paper it's on par with the Sony CT800
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SK8 sound not good, the sound a bit break in SK8. SK8 only have 3 speakers (2x Front and 1x Sub) but SK9 got 8 speakers (2x Front, 1x Center, 2x Side Surround, 2x Up Firing, 1x Sub). It is difference. As for Sony CT800, sorry I didn't test it, no idea.

QUOTE(skyforcerld @ Apr 20 2019, 09:47 AM)
Still got other options, use a Windows 10 HTPC or laptop. If already have one, no need to spend any more money.
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Haha! tongue.gif

QUOTE(rx330 @ Apr 20 2019, 10:10 AM)
I remember a few salesperson told me ARC mostly doesn't work , told me to use optical cable instead for soundbars

and it happen to my case as well, all my ARC doesn't work, end of the day, its because of the HDMI cable, get the correct spec one, all workable

a lot 3rd party hdmi cable state 2.0 or 1.4, mostly fake I think, non ARC workable
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Ya, ARC required high speed 18Gbps HDMI cable, else it keep failing. I face it also as I left only a normal speed cable that time and it is not working at all. So I change to high speed one and all settle.

QUOTE(GHOSTVIC @ Apr 20 2019, 11:06 AM)
Aduiii sakit kepala la fikir fikir fikir.. ARC eARC DOLBY...
Thanks for the brief explanation brother..
Feel like not getting anything just sit watch whatever default..
*
Haha!

QUOTE(GHOSTVIC @ Apr 20 2019, 11:28 AM)
Oh really ? What model sound bar and tv you connected through arc bro..
U mean all source connect to tv, from tv to sound bar use digital optical cable..?
If all source go to soundbar then connect to tv via optical ?
Certain things not pass through optical right..
*

Optical cable don't give you Dolby Atmos, Dolby Atmos only can pass thru HDMI cable, others all won't work. Optical only do normal DD and DTS.

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 20 2019, 12:32 PM
Andrewtst
post Apr 20 2019, 12:42 PM

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QUOTE(rx330 @ Apr 20 2019, 12:33 PM)
@andrew so many advert as high speed, all tipu

I have so many cables lying ard in house now, all not capable of ARC, really waste of time n money
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Yup, true, that why I don't go for lousy cheap one as not only ARC required, 4K HDR in Full RGB also required it.

So far my current 3 high speed 18Gbps cable is working well, one from Panasonic 4K UHD blu-ray player bundle, one is Belkin brand, last one is Prostar.
But I do waste 2 previously, one is unknown brand and it don't work at all, another is bundle by Xiaomi Mi Box, broken after some times.
Andrewtst
post Apr 20 2019, 09:25 PM

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QUOTE(GHOSTVIC @ Apr 20 2019, 07:59 PM)
Today i went to harverynorman.. so i asked the sales person to test LGSK9 connect to nu8000 demo tv. 1 person wanted to test. Another person stopped him wanted to know why ? So i claimed i worry if ARC doesn't works between.
3rd person suggested to use optical cable instead of arc. I claimed there is some restriction.
Then they claimed yes will have problem with ARC why not just get samsung sound bar should be compatible..

I condemn samsung tv sound system itself sucks, soundbar i have no confident.
Another person challenged me do you know who build sound system for samsung is "harmon kardon" own by them.
He showed me one of the samsung sound bar which written "samsung harmonkardon" top of it..

they want ppl use additional sound system ofcoz will not design highend in tv, business factor.
Then i had no choice went to check other bars again . now diff sales person.. he suggested to get YAS207.. tested side to side. with sony 9000F...
Ofcos YAS207 tremendous i agree.. this plug and play no settings needed..
He claimed 100% sure YAMAHA and SONY ARC works but LG not. YAMAHA is true dolby they just wanted to enter market with first dts surround sound bar to kill other brands. High selling model according to him.
He asked better dont get SK9Y.. if not much source connecting to sound bar then 1 hdmi in enough..
According to him he did fix soundbars at customer house and arc not detected so use optical..

None of them talked about high speed ethernet HDMI ARC issue.. damn it..

I think you guys should be sales person there to explain customer in detail..hahaha

Which brand hdmi is advisable brothers, i personally have 3. The last i bought is kameha brand..
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The first shop telling you the truth. One of the highest end soundbar by Samsung is design with Harmon kardon. This model is rate No.2 best soundbar for year 2019 by reviewer and it support everything include DTS-X. Too bad it cost too much. This model is RM 4.5K

https://www.samsung.com/my/audio-video/hw-n950/

No.1 best soundbar for year 2019 by reviewer is Bose Soundbar 700 which cost RM 3.7k the bar itself without the sub-woofer and even though it not even support Dolby Atmos but it get the best sound quality.

Yamaha always good in sound, this brand should nothing much to worried.

LG wise I read from internet, earlier firmware when just release got connection issue but in latest no issue. So far it working in my Panasonic TV. But got issue in Samsung TV or not, I not sure.

What brand HDMI good, I not really brand specific, as long it work, but I find Berlin very good build quality. Any high speed HDMI with ethernet in 18Gbps bandwidth will run fine.

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 20 2019, 09:45 PM
Andrewtst
post Apr 22 2019, 02:38 AM

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QUOTE(GHOSTVIC @ Apr 20 2019, 07:59 PM)
According to him he did fix soundbars at customer house and arc not detected so use optical..
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This is not a good solution provide by the sales person, only using optical if the TV don't have HDMI ARC.

Optical only support 2 Channel Stereo PCM, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, DTS Digital Sound and DTS-ES.

Optical not support 5.1/7.1 Multi-channel PCM, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos, DTS-HD MA, DTS:X and also Auro3D Audio and required HDMI due to Optical bandwith not enough issue.

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 22 2019, 02:41 AM
Andrewtst
post Apr 22 2019, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(skyforcerld @ Apr 22 2019, 10:10 AM)
Actually, current ARC implementation doesn't support any of those. It's pretty much same as optical, only DD and DTS 5.1. DD+ is hit and miss at best. Only advantage of ARC currently is CEC.

We have to wait for future implementation of eARC to get proper implementation.

https://www.lifewire.com/audio-return-channel-1846845

I am curious, do you get DD True HD, DD Atmos etc from your TV to your soundbar via ARC?
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I can't said it is support, it is required, you need connect your multimedia devices to the Soundbar HDMI-IN and later Soundbar HDMI ARC to TV ARC.
Direct connect device to TV ARC then not support.

eARC wise is implemented even direct connect to TV eARC also work, not necessary connect to Soundbar HDMI-IN as the bandwidth is enough for it.

I get Dolby Atmos TrueHD when connect directly connect my 4K UHD Blu-ray player to Soundbar HDMI-IN and the Soundbar is showing it as Dolby Atmos.
As for Apple TV 4K local movie playback, it is decode by the Apple TV 4K as Multi-channel PCM and later pass thru Soundbar.

The sound differences is obvious it is TrueHD or DD.

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 22 2019, 12:06 PM
Andrewtst
post Apr 22 2019, 12:06 PM

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QUOTE(skyforcerld @ Apr 22 2019, 12:05 PM)
ic, basically this means the traditional way of sending the signal to the soundbar/AVR for decode, not returning via ARC.
*
Ya, ARC is still very rubbish, not only it can't pass thru any lossless sound, it also have sound delay issue, need eARC for solving all this issue and run proper returning. Haha!

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 22 2019, 01:45 PM
Andrewtst
post Apr 22 2019, 07:32 PM

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QUOTE(rx330 @ Apr 22 2019, 04:41 PM)
till today, my cheapo ear can't tell diff btwn DD or TrueHD

last week, I change all my analogue cables to something of better quality, spending quite a bit of money for me, and.... sounds the same hahahah
*
If you can't tell, advice you test the same movie but different audio format. Then you will easier spot the differences.

Compression from Dolby is like MP3 where they is shaking noise there.

Compression from AAC wise is very ok and more closed to lossless track but still there is differences on it.

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 22 2019, 07:33 PM
Andrewtst
post Apr 24 2019, 12:19 AM

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Today I decide re-tune my LG SK9Y Soundbar with more options of movie selection and now I am very satisfied with it.

Really not easier to get the balance of 5.1.2 sound output.

Below is my new setting
  • Sound Effect: ASC
  • Woofer Level: 6
  • Center Speaker Level: 2
  • Overhead Speaker Volume: 2
  • Rear Speaker Level: 5
  • Rear Speaker Output: Surround
  • Treble: -5
  • Bass: 5

The main changes was Center Speaker Level from previous 0 to 2 and this give strong and clear vocal, Overhead Speaker volume also from previous 0 to 2 and this make more immersive and every single tiny sound clarity. Also I had return back Rear Speaker Output as Surround as I notice they is no sound from Overhead Speaker if I choose original sound setting and this is clearly mentioned in the user guide.

Now my output came with strong and clear vocal, deep and strong bass, immersive surround with high clarity background sound, no more over kill of high treble and over noisy background but with every single tiny sound clarity. It just simply nice and fit any type of movie.

Tested movie included
  • Blade Runner 2049 - this movie sound quality is mine blowing! Astonishing!
  • Arrival - the alien part sound is true deep.
  • The Greatest Showman - finally the singing part is enjoyable
  • Planet Earth II - it is so enjoyable listening to those animal, bird & insect voice
  • Pocahontas - finally it sound it suppose.
In summary, LG SK9Y is ounstanding Soundbar but need some tune as the default setting by LG is very bad except the Dolby Atmos sound setting where only activate when received Dolby Atmos signal.

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 24 2019, 12:23 AM
Andrewtst
post Apr 24 2019, 01:34 PM

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QUOTE(rx330 @ Apr 24 2019, 12:07 PM)
I see everything u own also very outstanding ler  thumbup.gif  thumbup.gif
*
I am satisfied with it. Normally I survey first before I buy. smile.gif

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