i seriesly connect cppa with hardwork/effort but not intell cus intell only helps but effort is doing the job all the way...ignore me if u think i never met genius cus i know even malaysia top no 1 hiding in his room doing study but still ppl think he's a genius

IMHO too, cgpa doesn't prove much.. im a 3rd class with 2.56 cgpa..yeah my cgpa is not good but hey, my programming subjects are mostly B+s and As..not to boast, but i trump my colleagues in those subjects during lab tests..but as i'm quite weak with subjects involving maths, my cgpa is as i mentioned before..I do respect people that got high cgpa but not those nerd ones that only can score during coursework and paper examinations but failed miserably when applying it practically. God knows how annoyed I am when those people boast about their cgpa and later going panic and clumsy when asked to apply practically.

I agreed with some of the post that 3rd class cant make the opportunity to enter giant MNC. With a 3rd class deg, one prolly has to aim for smaller companies that have less 1st class ppl applied.
And yes, I was one of the 3rd class in engineering. I screwed my studies during my time in U due to too many unhealthy influences. I admit that is one of the biggest mistake I did in my life.

When I tried to find my 1st job, out of expectations I was offered 2 jobs for 3 interviews that I went. Maybe i should call that luck. I choosed to become an engineer and my salary sits comfortably at 2k/month. After few months of working, I felt so stressed when I heard that who and who (those with 1st & 2nd class) were earning like 2.5-3.0k working in large MNC. I was really depressed and regret over my attitude during my Uni time. I realized what is past is already past and cannot be undone. During my time in that company, I observed that engineers drive proton and ppl from the sales department drive better cars range from 80k-150k. With some courage after a year of working, I resigned as an engineer for a sales position in another company.
It is not that easy as many ppl would think to build the so-called business network. The pressure as a sales representative is much heavier especially with that sales target marked on the white board hanging in the office. After a year despite all the ups and downs, I managed to earned that I believed is more than average engineers in Intel with 2 years working experience. That is when my basics + commision. Not to add my travelling allowance that will make the numbers even bigger.

To TS, please take this as a motivation and self comfort. A 3rd class in engineering may not excel but there are a lot of other jobs that can provide same the opportunity. It's normal to get discouraged over your bad results. All it takes is how you would view the world outside there.

Anyway who STEAL the kitchen...conform 3rd clas ni...english kantoi mer

talk about second chances!

yeah we cant deny that people with high CGPA are more deserving. they go the extra mile, might not be much, but they put more than the lower CGPA people do. intelligence alone cant get you high CGPA. these people obviously work hard for whatever they have. nobody cant really complain about the distinction. its only fair. now 3rd class people they might have something going on. be it bad influences. stress. or life taking its toll when u're young and whatnot. people understand and wont label you, if they do then screw them. but its still your loss if you get 3rd class. so deal with it. but its not that bad either. its your degree. its like your child you gotta be proud of it. few years after college, it wont matter anymore.

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Added on February 8, 2007, 12:54 pmhaha you pun confirm 3rd class.

This post has been edited by emememe: Feb 8 2007, 01:05 PM

y its me..
i kno laa its suppose 2 be steel....apa la u...

you mispelled confirm. its not comform. 3rd class la you

A degree or diploma or cert will indicate which minimum level salary will u get fo a job..."for me alwis dont bring academic knowledge to the career world" BE proud of what u obtain & stand firm to the market that u deserve for. I am a third class student & now im working in a MNC company with a start work at 2K & currently employed with 4k..
I have a experience during my graduates:
I requesting for RM2000k for starting & the employer throwing me that u just a 3rd class student, he claim that he can just employed a first class student which can do better than me. I just throw back my fired to him.If u think u can hires a first class student with 2k pay, then go ahead. By the end of the day, the employer called me back for second interview & i said sorry i get offered which is true.
In short i would to streess here is be firm of yourself.Higher % of first class student unemployed compared to lowered class student.

I, too, am a 3rd class graduate. Not only that, I actually failed a couple of subjects (multiple times in some cases) and got pushed back a year due to very dismal results. The humiliation that I endured, entirely through my own faults, was rather great. To make a long story short, I graduated a year later than my colleagues who scored much better grades than I did. I suffered greatly during my uni years because I simply hated the position I was put in. Plain and simple.

Fast forward 2 months......

I'm now working for a prolific IT firm, earning a more comfortable sum and set of benefits compared to my other university colleagues who were more booksmart. The only reasons I can think of? It's either because I'm more confident, have more hands-on experience, much less arragont and demanding, or better spoken than they are. The thing is, a 1st and 2nd rate degree isn't necessarily an automatic ticket to a good job. It's the amount of work applicable knowledge you have in that skull of yours that counts. Would an employer hire:

A) a 3rd class, well-dressed, down to earth guy who can troubleshoot virtually any Windows/OS related problem, build a PC from scratch in 10 minutes, melt his customers like cheese on a hot knife and work like a steroid-pumped bull

OR

B) a 1st Class Honours, arragont and ultra-demanding kiddo who attends the interview dressed like a disco reject, whose PC knowledge revolves only around CS and DOTA, acts like the world owes him a favour, and sleeps on the job more than a 3 month old toddler?

I've actually seen a lot of the B) type candidate during my uni years. Some 2nd Class Upper candidates I know can't even install a fresh copy of Windows, format or partition a HDD, or even update an anti-virus software's definitions. I'm not trying to glorify myself as a lower ranking bum, but merely to show all those dejected 3rd Class graduates out there that just because you don't look good on paper, doesn't mean you can't get a decent job or excel in your career. It's your attitude towards your future career that matters most.

rcky, very well said. I couldn't agree more. However you cannot deny that cgpa is the simplest mechanism of filtering potential candidates. Like it or not any large company will pay attention to it. Second class is enough to get you into most interviews. 3 rd class however works as a disadvantage of getting you an appointment.

That's quite true, but I'd like to think that a good resume is what large companies filter through the pile of garbage they get. A diamond in the rough, so to speak. Think of it as a very good preview for your prospective employer to gauge how well you communicate, how good your grammar and vocab are, and how convincing you can be. If your English is excellent, it's possible to overtake even the most promising guy who's got a good degree but crappy communication skills.

I've been counting on my resume as my ONE AND ONLY trump card in getting even an interview. Don't get me wrong, my resume is by no means the greatest out there, but I try to write my resume as straightforward as possible. No beating around the bush, no unnecessary information that will give even Sherlock Holmes a 2-week migraine attack, and certainly no unneccesary sob story on why you want the job. If you can't even make good sense about what you want and expect of your company, you're basically wasting the employers time, earning your resume a one-way ticket to the shredder.

I agree on the part that CGPA is very important in securing jobs in high-profile companies. I notice that such compaines tend to be ones involved in R&D, corporate players and those who rely heavily on new innovation to progress. Siemens is one of them, IIRC, because they pooh-poohed my application right away when they heard I got less than 3.0 (this was during my internship). Who can blame them? R&D is a very touchy field where new and better ideas are crucial to their survival. It's the ability to think critically for long periods of time that matters most to such companies.

Yeah, and employers hate hiring ppl with high cppa bcos they got it through "hardwork/effort", and not brains.

3rd class holders are smart but lazy. Companies love them!

But seriously, let me ask you one thing. Why do ppl get 3rd class?

2 possibilities. he is damn lazy, or he couldnt score despite working hard. Either way, it's not a good sign.

This post has been edited by Squidward: Feb 15 2007, 06:21 AM

RCKY ROCKS!

This post has been edited by emememe: Feb 15 2007, 07:47 AM

With regards to the bolded statement:

Back in my uni, most of the high scorers are genuinely smart. Make no mistake about that. Their killer blow is their propensity to work much harder than their rivals as well. It's what you call the ultimate combo. It's smart AND hardworking people like these that possess the best of both worlds, and that's why they have jobs running after them, not the other way round. An E&E faculty acquaintance of mine actually had 4 big-shot companies (Intel included) calling HIM for recruitment because of his superb results, plus he's really smart. Some people have it all.

3rd Class Degree holders aren't actually lazy. They just lack the physical drive to do something that clashes with their interest (I know, because I'm one of them). If you force a whizgeek to do anything other than building and overclocking PCs, what are the chances he'd do it wholeheartedly? Zilch. They also tend to be ones who 'live for the day, leave the rest for tomorrow'. They possess the right material for success (dilligence, streetsmarts, survival instincts and a undemanding stance), but not the ability to see far ahead. Perhaps we can tag this attitude as being lazy, lazy to think about the future, that is.

I don't think it's right to lump 3rd Class Degree students with lazy people in general. Most of these students make a 180 degree turn when they start their career because they're not working for intangible numbers (exam results and grades) anymore. They have to work hard for the 'bling-bling', tangible figures in the bank account, and that's why we shouldn't be surprised when some lazy punk turns into a hustler at the end of the day. Cutting of their allowance sure works miracles. Hey, think about it this way: if a student is truly lazy, how did he manage to get a degree at all? He could have just slacked off and got his sorry a$$ kicked out right away. THAT'S genuine laziness.

Ho ho ho......thanks. I'm happy for your compliments.

more power to the 3rd class! i dont wanna be one but i'd be proud to be one. they have amazing survival skills, and they succed with minimal efforst, and they are manipulative too. and whats more, they are more resilient coz they've been through a lot more than people would have thouught.

third class=no value? hmm ..remember back in my University times, i've got several friends who graduated with third class degree, now many of them working in oil&gas industry, engineering company, markerting company,IT compnay and all driving nice car . i envy them. so my point here is, wether it's 1st class degree or whatever, all have value. few years after college, it doesn't matter anymore, it's your experience and proffesional certification that matters the most. only if 1st class then have higher chance to get an interview.

It's just numbers. But an important numbers. I could simply put it this way, based on malay proverbs,

1st class/top scorer = bersusah-susah dahulu, bersenang-senang kemudian

3rd class/Lazy bump = bersenang-senang dahulu, bersusah susah susah susah kemudian.

I'm a recent graduate in mechanical engineering, and in this profession what i see the most important is passion. I believe that it applies to every profession and if you have this, no matter what class you are, you could sell your self better than any other competitors.

Let me give an example. I got friend in college who is definitely smart, have good interpersonal skills, communication skills and a first class degree. The whole package but she's a girl (i know i'm sexist). She's a mechanical engineer like my self, but frankly speaking she couldn't even differentiate between a radiator and carburetor. The reason why this happens is because it is not being taught in the course. The reason guys know it because of their passion.

I am in the third class club, but one thing that i have in me that i can see as a helping factor in my career is my passion. Most of the knowledge i gain throughout the learning process is not in lecture halls or books. It is from exposure to the real world of engineering by working and handling pressures.

I've asked several friends while in college, yes there are what we call the genius or memorizer and whatever you may call them, about what is the reason they put to sort of fins at the side of the BMW M3 where normal 3 series have none. First answers, answered with a question, what is M3? Second anwer, probably decorations? You don't even have to go to school to know the anwers but apparently this sort of anwser are no way to be found in books or never mentioned by lecturers.

What is this gotta to do with being an engineer? Nothing, with passion in a certain aspects will let you know that fins could improve airflow to the piping hot engine revving up to more than 7000 rpm and definitely improve performance. Take Proton for example, took only 3.0 and above engineers to work with them. But do this excellent engineers produce the best car in the market? Take Orange County Choppers for the next example, I'm pretty sure most of those guys don't have even have a degree don't even mention a 3rd class, but with their passion they design and build their choppers from scratch and it is one the best in business.

I sell my self this way during the interview by telling them i may not be a good student, but i'm sure im a good engineer.

First of all, my apologies if you are offended by what I said. I'm just trying to give you a likely scenario

The interviewer will have just two questions for you.

-
Why then with all this passion in engineering that you ended up with 3rd Class? If you are passionate, I'm sure you will be revising day and night and at least this can land you a 2nd Lower.

Passion eh (with a smirk looking at you)? So tell me, what have you achieved until today?
-
This is how people will interview you. Congratulations if you can answer this or else, you'll be ridiculed by the interviewer.

My point being, it's important to sell yourself. Just remember not to brag.



Are you saying BMW only employs people with 3rd Class?



What sort of real world are we talking about and what sort of pressures are we talking about?



If a typical girl knows more about it than you, guys would all be out of jobs now. It's in the guy's gene that they love and worship cars.

good example tydell. nothing beats having passion in what you do. and way to contradict geminist. apparently people dont buy passion alone.

This post has been edited by emememe: Feb 16 2007, 04:38 AM

Question 1, The reason I ended in 3rd class is because I'm lazy. I just happen to miss class lots of time, but again who don't? I'm young at that time and book just not an interesting past time for me. I do lots of part time job to gain some money to buy unnecessary things and so on. Let's just say I'm more practical man than theorist or mathematician. By the way, do you know where mostly the first class engineering students went? They further studies and become lecturers. Most of the engineers working as engineers today are mostly 2nd - 3rd classes. I bet you most of these Professors could probably never lift a spanner.

Question 2, With my passion, it's already 3 months working with Shin Etsu Handotai Shah Alam. CGPA doesn't impress interviewer that much but I manage to "passionate" my way by telling them I've been involved in the analysis of wiresaw machine (a silicon cutting machine) in my project and how much I like to be a part of the production team, bla...bla...bla... and that's pretty much it. The truth is I never knew what wiresaw machine is, but a week before the interview I researched their site and internet to fully understand the machine and it seems its working. I'm working with the same machine now.

Question 3?, I do not know the details about BMW employment, but i'm pretty sure they employ someone who is at least knows cars. What i mean knowing cars not just the technology, but also the history of cars from the beginning. Do you know that a car production team consist of different types of people? It involves race car driver, normal driver, car journalist, critics and so on including team of engineers. Do they have CGPA standards for race car driver or normal driver or any of the important figures? How about the designer? Can we really judge an art by number? Having passionate engineering team would surely bring out more passion in the creation process rather than by the book concept. Heck, probably even the BMW founder doesn't have a first class degree or degree at all...

Question 4? The real world is a dog eat dog world. Having 3rd class degree sure make the dogs come closer to you. To compete with the first class degree holder, you must at least have the thing that they don't. The sort of pressures that I've been dealing is how I can win the competition with the just talk but no papers to proof it. I've been interviewed 11 times with 11 companies in the course of 5 months; I can assure you it's definitely not like a walk in the park. It just happens to be I converse quite well in English and again, my passion. Emememe is right, people don't buy passion alone, but it helps.

If a typical girl knows more about it than you, guys would all be out of jobs now. It's in the guy's gene that they love and worship cars.

Like I said, you probably go to college to learn everything, but if you have no passion in what you do, you will only be punishing yourself. A passionate person do the things he loves and get pay for it rather than work to be paid.