sos

sos2

but so far i heard, even if the recall them and replace with a new one, problem still persist so how??

This post has been edited by weakmeal69: Jun 12 2013, 05:30 PM

even Audis?

that's a surprise, a car at that kind of level/price having such devastating problem as well.

not just audi..most of conti car that's using DSG got recall.. VW, audi, skoda etc..

i dunno about Ford yet.. they experiencing problems too but till now no recall has been made

That's why Audi all over the worlds are slowly switching to 8AT supplied by ZF. (if not mistaken)

In Malaysia :

A6 hybrid -> 8AT
Q5 -> DSG7 to 8AT (yup, even the quattro DSG which did not know to have problem)

Lower price range like A1 still using SDG7, unfortunately.

Most new BMW are using 8AT from ZF as well.

This post has been edited by amdxp: Jun 12 2013, 05:42 PM

its really troubling considering this issue has been brought up for quite some time and previously they were very firm on denying these allegations spontaneously. Now they are eating their own words and doing the recall.

Have they no concerns for the abundance of owners who are driving their cars daily which could result in a situation like the lady who drove the Golf?

Do they prioritize profits/image over customer's safety?

The more I think of it, the more I realize how wrong and troubling this is.

Ford did a low profile fix on their tranny.

Ford Powershift is made by getrag & DSG is made by borgwarner.

u expect expensive cars to not have problems? in fact i think a lot of expensive cars have more problems than cheap cars

Er...got one small detail.

Audi also use the same mechanical as VW.

Skoda also affected too.

No news in Seat though.

sooner or later bro....

Yikes! Be afraid, be very afraid. VW and Audi, Skoda and SEAT. Seriously no laughing matter this one.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-12/volk...-recall/4747694

This article even mentioned engine rebuild


Mr Makris says he has had the engine rebuilt and gearbox replaced on his Golf.

Case study: Ross Gulliver owns a 2006 Passat

"We had problems over a number of years with the car cutting out when stationary. [It ] wouldn't restart.

"My wife was driving it in most of the instances and it is frightening if you have kids on board.

"I had to drag them (Volkswagen) kicking and screaming to get my car fixed and it is a 2006, with a six-speed and DSG.

"I can't see that the problem is limited to 2008 and beyond."
"I know of some people who have had up to five engines replaced. It's out of control," he said.

"It started initially with a few people, then it blew out to 40 or 50 people, and now it's in the hundreds.

"I believe the cars are very dangerous. I think the DSG (direct shift gearbox), no matter how many times they replace it, it's not going to solve the problem.

"My car's shuddering again. I think it's only a matter of time before we have another tragic fatality on the road."

It is not unexpected. It was something that was bound to happen and just about every mass manufacturing automotive company has to go through this issue.

I've said it before, I think in their drive to become the world no.1 automotive manufacturer, their quality have taken a dip. It might not be directly their fault, might be with their suppliers in trying to keep up with demand, certain steps of QC were skipped in order to meet timely demand.

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/arti...jectid=10890044

NZ too recall

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/10-largest-...alls-in-history

Yes, GM, Toyota, VW, Ford and Honda has all been in the top recall records

Caption:
Volkswagen has a good recall history relative to other mainstream brands in Australia, given it has issued only two notices since 2007. The notices were for flat batteries in Transporters earlier this year and cracked diesel injector pipes in about 7000 VW and Skoda models in 2012, However, Europe’s biggest car-maker is likely to attract criticism for its delay in issuing the DSG recall in Australia, where it has undertaken a number of ‘service campaigns’ to fix a variety of issues.

Today’s recall notice follows a similar recall of almost 400,000 cars after a Chinese television program investigation and subsequent DSG-related recalls in Singapore, Japan, Malaysia and Taiwan. At the time, VW said Australian models were fitted with different transmissions.

Full article:
http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2013/volks...-dsg-cars-37051

not surprising. Audi is under VW and some of them sharing the same engines,etc with luxury price.

VW, Audi, Skoda all the same company, so they use the same gearboxes.

Renault has DSG now too, Ford has, Volvo has (same as Ford I believe), ...

Perhaps the issue with these DSG gearboxes of VW has been fixed, and owners are getting new parts that do not have the fault anymore?

@dtna7: Come on, having an accident like that is highly unlikely. The car doesn't accelerate anymore and she dies because of that?! (That is if that is the case. If the car suddenly slows down quite violently then it is very serious.) Normally I don't believe in luck, but... that's very bad luck. Most likely you'll just slow down and stop at the roadside, confused and angry but unhurt. The issue that some Toyotas had... stuck pedal, so the car would keep accelerating, was much more serious IMHO. Or think about the Ford Pinto in the 70s, which would explode when rear ended. Construction fault where a part of the bumper would be rammed into the fuel tank, creating sparks and... a bit of an explosion I suppose. Ford tried to cover up and thought it'd be cheaper to pay compensation than to issue a recall. Needless to say that did backfire.

I think the problem is that the DSG might not be fully matured, and perhaps a different driving style is necessary for it to be reliable. AFAIK not too long ago Mercedes had introduced a new engine, which was, or is very advanced. Sadly too advanced, so there was a major problem that led to mass death of these engines. Mercedes replaced them and tried to keep owners quiet.

yes i do believe that is very unlikely. (car decelerating suddenly and coincidentally a truck behind slam on the car in this case)

but what troubles my mind is their state of responsibility here. To say "that is untrue at all, we are confident that there is nothing wrong" and then coming back shortly to say, "Ok there is something wrong, we will be doing something about it as being responsible" is just pure bullsh1t coming from such a huge brand like VW affecting so many lives.

This post has been edited by dtna7: Jun 12 2013, 09:11 PM

As a business, what do you expect them to say? "It's completely our fault, our car killed our customer, we shall immediately look into the matter.". It will open a floodgate of class action lawsuits they can't win (well they did go on record to say it is their fault) and hugely negative publicity. They cannot afford to claim full responsibility for those cases.

They didn't even admit "something is wrong". Instead of saying "send your car to the nearest dealership for our recall exercise because one of our customers got killed" They spun it as "As a responsible carmaker we are launching this recall exercise to give our customers a piece of mind."

Welcome to the world of PR.

I already mentioned numerous times before....Manual gears pretending to be Auto gear is a disaster...It doesn't work (realibily). AMT, DSG....all proven cases....
Ford, VW, Renault etc....

Man I love to hear those butt kissing fan boys here still saying they will buy vw no matter what

so many manufacturers using dual clutch gearbox also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission

bmw m3, evo x SST, sls amg, a45 amg, mp4-12c, ford powershift, ferrari 458,
nissan GTR, Porsche PDK, vw/audi dsg s-tronic

that works

Reuters

I loled at this statement. Your dirty & disgusting country is not worthy of awesome DSG!

Just adding up numbers – all recent recalls due to a DSG-related problem

91,000 Japan,
384,181 China,
25,928 Australia ,
2,500 NZ ,
6,181 cars in Singapore (accounting for 35% of its car population in the island nation),
3,962 Malaysia,

Audi 6,000.


It is already about half a mil, Anymore?what was Taiwan's recall number, what was USA's?

No need to explain so much bro.

Many manufacturers have recalls. Just that some are considered soft recalls, whereby only owners know about them or those "hard" recalls you see in the news. After all, it's up to them to decide whether to take responsibility, acknowledge issues from owners and formally announce a recall. Apa lagi you mau?

Initially I wanted to buy used bmw 5 series, alas got lemon problem. Then after, wanted ferrari 458, but alas, can catch fire by itself. So I go with toyota prius... alas got acceleration problem and floor mat issue.... BUT proton seems perfect coz no global recall wor...naive la some ppl...

Put it this way. Technology has a curve that companies need to overcome. Toyota has invested heavily into hybrids, while VW has done other stuff. If nobody innovates, then basically it becomes a refinement and enhancement of existing technology and the Japanese have done just that with their cars. Not very interesting at all is it?

Every subsequent generation will improve upon the previous generation to give a better product. And it is always the bystanders that gains from the innovators mistakes and drawbacks, DSG gearbox is no exception to this rule.

agree to this. Automotive Tech has to move on, its one of the slowest actually, compared to other techie industry. Oil has to be taken out from the equation sooner than later.

DSG is a great tech, just that its not ready, and the whole world knows about it now.

THink of this scenario, which is likely to happen to a DSG and not other gearboxes.. you are cruising on the highway at 110km/h on 5th gear with a truck following you. Most people would think that if you have a gearbox problem, you would cruised to a standstill in neutral. So people are wondering how she could have gotten hit. What if the DSG switched from 5th to 1st or 2nd gear (it's all electronically controlled and not locked in place by mechanical means). That would lock wheels when the engine over revs. It will not be a gradual slowing down. The reports of the accident stated sudden slow down and not a normal 'switch to neutral' and cruise type slow down. This could happen to any faulty DSG.

I tot the girl in the Aussie incident was driving a manual

But since a DSG is a manual gearbox with 2 clutches and a robot, how can it hammer in 1st or 2nd? I doubt that is so easy. Plus the lady was driving a manual car...

Wouldn't the ECU prevents that from happening? Or i was wrong about the DSG concepts

Yeah, it's manual, just checked. I got it mixed up with the other DSG issues.

That's the whole issue that is causing the problem with DSG gearboxes. It's drive-by wire and when the ECU and electronics screw up, who is actually in control of the gearbox then? You or the microchip? There is no manual override like we see in movies installed in every electrical device. Ford owners have reported of their Fiesta DSGs refusing to go into neutral when the car was slowing to a stop.

The ECU is all that controls the gearbox in the DSG and unlike a manual gearbox where you have physical mechanical barriers. For example, in a normal 5 speed manual where the reverse is located below the 5th gear, the gearbox linkage is made such a way that you can't shift from 5th straight into reverse without first going to neutral to unlock the linkage.

So if a DSG decides to freak out, anything can happen. The worse thing is that there are no signs of imminent failure.

So in the simplest term, is it the computer system failure? you know computer that hangs and needs reboot... despite all our advances in IT, it always happens

When I look at this vid, all i see can be the problem is the computer

According to VW, the DSG gearbox will only defect in certain country such as Asia because of the humid and hot weather plus heavy traffic, eg. traffic jam, hump, traffic lights, that's mean the DGS gearbox cannot withstand those start stop traffic condition. The problem now is what kind of method VW will use to repair the DSG problem? Will they just repair back the DSG and redesign the whole DSG gearbox?

Agreed with innovations. ..but must weight risk and returns. Dsg is not new...started in 1980 . There are something which simply doesn't works and should be dumped. ...Malaysian buyers pay high prices for cars...almost 100k at least for these dsg cars...in the end, gets a lemon which can't sell, too expensive to fix,
or worst. ...can't fix at all going by the feedback of some owners.

I m not saying other gearbox tech has no failure rates,
It just that DSG failure is a question of when rather than "if".

true. more gadget..more electronics. that's why T&H is reliable..because less gadget means less problems.

It went global yo. US previously kena, Europe also kena.

Nvm la, those people rich enough to dump the car

Not true at all. Even T&H cars full of electronics nowadays....especially Hybrids...got a computer under the car boot or something (which explains most hybrid car boot damn small)...But small gadgets problem...can live without...if things like auto wiper, auto aircond spoil...no problem. Just use your hand to set lah. But gearbox problem...nothing can do.

This post has been edited by Matrix: Jun 13 2013, 07:24 PM

We know that for better fuel efficiency and emissions then dual clutch is the way of the future. The question is - is it an inherent design flaw with VW DSG design or component problem? Whatever it is, it is a hurdle that manufacturers need to overcome and there's only so much data you can gather in a simulated environment.

If it isn't VW then it would be someone else. It's unfortunate but it is a process which they have to go through in order to improve upon existing designs.

Yeah...in the meantime, for us Malaysian, unless you are really rich and don't mind living with a piece of junk which cost you RM100K(+RM25k bank interest) which can't move after a few years while still serving loans....i think we should stay away and let the rich gwei loh be the guinea pig themselves.....

This is a clear admission the DSG gb is faulty. If it is unbale to operate under certain conditions,then it is a faulty product. It certainly needs further development. The call backs are a testament to it's defect.

As callbacks are numerous and in different countries, fixing the gb with the same designed parts is unsatisfactory. It only delays occurrence of the same problem. Research and redesigned of the defective parts is necessary.

VW owns a duty of care to customers. If by use of VW products a customer is endangered,VW will be liable to legal action. These sorts of legal actions may be rare in Bolehland,at least buyers beware!

hybrid is one thing. my example based on vios (90k) vs forte (90+k)..or honda accord (150k) vs pug 508 (155k).

Those gadgets are non-critical features...spoilt already, car still can work. No biggie. Except maybe the safety features like VSC, TSC, VAS, 6 AIRBAGS blah blah....which involves more electronics and sensors....eventually even T&H will also have to include all these safety features as it's becoming standard globally....Even Preve got more safety features than a T&H....

In Europe 6 airbags were pretty much standard in entry level C segment cars in 2002. Accord and Camry elsewhere come with 6-10 airbags as standard, and have done so for a long time.

Btw. the most reliable Toyota is supposed to be the Prius... their most advanced car.

Also, seriously, the brake failures, stuck accelerators etc. that constantly plague Toyota are IMHO way worse. This issue is mostly a problem with reliability and can cost dearly later. They shouldn't be life threatening.

to put things in perspective.

Here is the recalls of all makers
http://autos.aol.com/info/recall/
Among others are:
Chrysler To Recall 630,000 SUVs Worldwide, o6-06-2013
Nissan Recalls 841,000 Vehicles, 23 May 2013
Chrysler Recalls Almost A Half Million Jeeps, 13-05-2013
Honda Recall Affects 205,000 Vehicles, 19-04-2013
Air Bag (made by Japan Takata Group) Recall Affects 3.4 Million Cars From Several Automakers: Toyota, Honda and Nissan .11 Apr 2013
Hyundai and Kia Recall 1.9 Million Vehicles,3 Apr 2013
Honda Recalls Nearly 250,000 Vehicles Over Brake Issue, 14-03-2013
Subaru of America is recalling more than 47,000 cars and SUVs,07-03-2013
Ford is recalling 230,000 minivans,07-03-2013
BMW Recalling Nearly 570,000 Cars, 19-02-2013
Toyota Recalls 1.29 Million Vehicles For Air Bags, Wipers,30 Jan 2013
Honda Issues Major Recall For Airbag Problem (748,000 vehicles), 18-1-2013

you can read all about it if you have time. But if you would like to know the nasty ones, here is top 5 top notorious recall of all time by popular mechanics
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/news/...4345725#slide-1

no french???

French cars ? what do you expect? not selling in USA since 1980s, staying put in Europe , never really mass produced per se for the rest of the world. Until China...

only italians are on sale in USA

fiat 500, plenty of them in LA area

I am pretty sure there is recalls for French & Italian cars too, but in the biggers scheme of thing, since the numbers are smaller in comparisons to The American, Japanese and Germans, it becomes very tiny puny barely audible little 'pops'

Just wonder Indian cars got recall ? or Chinese even?

PSA is on position 6 or so of the worlds biggest car makers though.

But yes, they too issue recalls, of course. Maybe just not recently... Italian car makers too. Chinese I'd be sceptical... Chinese manufacturers (and their customers) seem to have a throwaway mentality. Once broken, throw away. No need to fix.

not according to Forbes

not even in top 10 also according to brands

http://www.mbaskool.com/fun-corner/top-bra...ml?limitstart=0

not according to Forbes
http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/20...ding-automaker/


not even in top 10 also according to brands

http://www.mbaskool.com/fun-corner/top-bra...ml?limitstart=0

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/...0420-1xc14.html
The above show these for 2012

Forbes’ top car makers for 2012
Volkswagen – 17
Toyota – 25
Daimler – 37
Ford – 44
Honda – 59
BMW – 61
General Motors – 63
Nissan – 85
Hyundai – 96
Volvo – 183
Renault – 187
SAIC – 232
Kia – 253
Fiat – 314
Tata – 348
Dongfeng Motor Group – 450
Peugeot – 458
Suzuki – 514
Isuzu – 721
Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru) – 805
Mahindra and Mahindra – 918
Mitsubishi – 1046
Mazda – 1055
Porsche – 1056
BYD – 1266
Great Wall Motors – 1476
Huayu Automotive – 1779

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Jun 14 2013, 05:22 PM

That's weird. Every source is saying something different... one even had Ford behind other brands, despite the arcticle claiming they have produced more cars?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_in...By_manufacturer
But at least for 2011 PSA was on the 7th spot, Renault 9th.

The top 5 positions are dominated by VW, GM, Toyota, Ford and Hyundai. But look at the gap between Toyota and Hyundai and then Hyundai and Ford. That's how much numbers these manufacturers are pushing.

0.05% defect rate for Hyundai is definitely not the same number as 0.05% defect rate for Toyota or VW.

Forbes does not define largest purely by sales number but if u only want to look at production output . This is 2012 situation :
And I must caution u : time has changed.

The top 3 are still VW or Toyota or GM all three making output in excess of 8 mil (Toyota claimed 9.9 m) and I am not surprise with their recovery after the devastating tsunami and earthquake of 2011.

Then the next 3 spots i.e. seat no. 4 , 5 and 6 belongs to Hyundai-Kia or Ford and Nissan with output level of 5-7mil output each or thereabouts, e.g. Nissan made 4.889 mil, Hyundai-Kia at 7.12 mil and Ford a bit less at 5.67 mil

The remaining 4 spots gets interesting as it is where the 3 mil to 4 mil makers all stands a chance.

Fiat-Chrysler was a little over 4 mil at 4.2 mil took seat 7.
Honda also about 4 mil so seat 8 is taken

Can the French take 9 & 10? Afraid not, why ? the no 1 car maker in China SAIC that owns MG with output 3.6 mil took seat no. 9

2012 happened to be a bad year for PSA where output drop from 3.5 mil to 2.97mil so out they go from top 10 because another Chinese Dongfeng with 3.2 mil makes more so sit at last spot 10.

I must add it was a bad year for Renault too as output 2012 was just 2.6 mil.

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Jun 22 2013, 12:12 AM

Yeah, it fluctuates quite a bit. But still, even if they are not in the top 10, they are quite significant.

if it was me i will sue the gearbox maker instead

Yeah. Both PSA and Renault are not insignificant. And like I said before have made recalls too

Here is what I have dug out from the great www

http://m.wardsauto.com/psa-peugeot-recall-around-100000-cars
http://m.wardsauto.com/peugeot-recall-2400...-model-307-cars
http://wardsauto.com/peugeot-recall-some-b...-406s-boot-lock

http://m.wardsauto.com/renault-recalls-400...r-nissan-defect

Looks like Renault is the Better French

Nah. Could just be that Renault is a bit more reluctant to issue a recall. We bought a new Renault in 1993, which would occasionally have a flat battery. You go somewhere, park the car, 1 hour later the battery was dead. The SC checked and checked and checked... replaced several batteries etc., nothing. The issue went up to Renault Germany headquarters, they too were clue less. IIRC they then checked back with Renault France, who told them it's a known issue and that there was some few cent part that was defective. They just didn't bother to inform their service centers... Of course everything was done under warranty, but still, it was annoying and troublesome. And it wasn't like it's some obscure car no one bought anyway, it was the most popular non-German car at that time. They sold tons of them...

Of course that happened 20 years ago, and the company is probably different now. The car btw. turned out to be reliable, once the bugs were fixed...

Btw., The one recall you found is because of a defective Nissan engine.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jun 15 2013, 09:51 AM

Hahaha, so possibly the recall-reluctant Renault can blame it on Nissan.

Volkswagen examines water leakage problem in new Golf

Germany's weekly Auto Bild reported today (-5-09-2013) that the company's best-selling model is prone to leakage of water into the co-driver's footwell because of wrongly installed drainage tubes linked to air-conditioning technology.
The magazine report had said about 300,000 VW Group cars could be affected, including its Audi A3 and Seat Leon compact models.

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130905/A.../#ixzz2e4XTKDJE

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Sep 6 2013, 09:35 AM