woaaaa....dammm so affordable. This is prob the 2.0L.
so tempting.....

Actually a NEP that target the extreme poor across all races will help. Then tax breaks based on income structre. More income = no tax break, low income more tax break in phases. As it currently stands, undergraduate students are the poorest people in urban areas. RM2.5k does not qualify for cheap housing etc as not considered "poor".

I don't mind GST/Petrol prices going up so that Thais/SG don't "steal" stuff here, and bring back there. The only problem, assistance needs to be given to Malaysians so that they are not that effected. BR1M is one method. Only Malaysians can get it. You cannot introduce GST/Petrol prices without figuring what will happen to the extreme poor. Bank Negara should have/had run simulations by now if the scenario does happen.

Unfortunately, I can only talk here. Talk is cheap. I am not in a position where my actions can affect outcomes. People higher up of the society must be doing this.


Budget? Super cheap would be a used Kenari. Sorry, I missed this reply.

Sorry, I was busy driving outstation yesterday. Still outstation today. Just got online. Poor net reception here. Hotel also no free wifi. What budget you have in mind? What kind of car?

Will be doing long distance driving tomorrow also. If no reply = busy moving around.

kadajawi will reply on my behalf
Or dares
or sleepwalker
Or anyone else

Or you could make a proper thread with the requirements you want. In order for this thread to stay on topic. Also, I don't know everything

Wah.... reading this thread makes me feel like I am back in college..

Bro mystvearn...your post damn keng la! this one worth reading many times

back to topic, looks like Gomen already making "plans" to reduce car prices.. there's some announcements made, like this one here : Car price drop to take time.

What I dont like about reading that is that Gomene "will take some time to implement a plan" to reduce car price. I have a feeling that it will not be that big of a reducetion by 2017.

Read carefully...REDUCE PRICE BUT NOT EXCISE DUTY. How much can price reduce? RM500? RM1000?? It's the Excise duty that is the killer, not the car price.

Just a long shot, but isn't the excise duty based on the car price? If the car

let's say a 50K car attracts 100% excise duty making it 100k. Now if the car price is reduced by 30%, making it 35k and adding a 100% excise duty makes it 70k.

Doesn't that mean that there is still a reduction?

Sorry...not good with maths but sifus, pls correct me if I am wrong.. Thanks.

This is fiction, wake up guys. Wake up

Price for expensive cars will go down a bit. Woohooo...

Price go down, petrol go up.

Wake up peeps.

mystvearn, i like your reply. Very informative and logical.

we can not have cheaper car due to Currency, healthcare and pretection to the country economy? It is nothing to do with Protection to Proton, APs and Cronism? Nothing at all?
Though I am not well educated, but don't bull on me please

Perodua supports car price reduction …. wah lau eh...

Sure bo? If reduce will we see sub 20k car from them? Hopefull reduction will be across the board, not limited to certain model or segment.

We wait and see lag!

Back in 60's and 70's, there is no such thing as no spare parts despite no IT, no hi-tech communication but only phone and paperwork. In the 80's and early 90's, carmakers would setup plants here and also there is no such thing as no spare part yet. Mid to late 90's onwards, some Japanese carmakers no longer setup plants here when car price began to increase like mad. 2000's onwards more and more carmakers turned to Thailand it became ASEAN automotive hubs. The P1/P2 protection policy and overly high car price eventually turned carmakers away and we lost much of the business and jobs opportunities.

AFTA 2005 did reduced car price a bit and that time many shop for Japanese cars CKD or CBU from Thai. Those who bought earlier paid dearly while used car dealers were all mad.
D-segment Camry 2.0 RM160k to RM130k
C-segment Altis 1.8 RM128k to RM110k
C-segment Altis 1.6 RM112k to RM97k
B-segment appeared for the first time City RM87k then quickly reduced to RM78k after Vios '03 launch priced at RM69k became the cheapest Japanese made ever. Vios later forced to increase to RM75k for being too close to Waja at RM67k.

Conti made remained expensive due to fully imported. Pug406 at RM160k while Volvo S40 at RM169k, they were priced at earlier Camry '01 pricing. Mazda 6 priced at RM160k due to imported sold as premium sports sedan.

Whenever there's facelift, car price up RM2k and when brand new replacement came, up another RM5k. Now car price slowly moving back to square 1. Camry 2.0 priced at RM150 to RM160k. C-segment also slowly moving up crawling back to RM130k. The same goes to B-segment. AFTA is ASEAN treaty therefore, the old management has no choice but to obey.

I thought thread was dead

Like I said previously, it ain't gonna happen. PR wants to remove 70% over 5 years. I cannot agree with Rafizi on this. I go as far to say that it is madness to insane. That is suicidal to used car salesman and car owners. Even if you remove RM5k/year for RM100k car already suicidal for used car salesman. Lets say car X is RM95k next year, but used car salesman already bought it at RM50k. Now need to wipe out another RM5k from selling price of lets say was supposed to be RM60k. Now need to sell RM55k. Of course used car salesman still can make profit, but margins will be very tight.

Lets say you know the price will be cheaper 70% over the next 5 years like PR's manifesto, so a RM300k Mitsu Evo will cost about RM100k, people without cars will buy used cars just to cover the 5 years, then buy that RM100k evo People with new cars will keep on using their cars, come time to sell, they also tension bought RM300k, loan 80%, 5 years their car is worth RM80k. If sell more than RM 100k, no one wants to buy, cause why buy used car since new car worth only RM100k. To make matters worse, new car salesman also pening kepala because very few people will buy new cars. In fact, I can only see people all buying new Perodua/Proton while waiting the price to drop to afford that Merc.

People don't understand that, if you want cheaper car prices everyone who owns a car will suffer. those with outstanding loan/continuing will be hardest hit. You buy Honda civic also cannot guarantee can get higher resale value. People who untung are those doing undergrad now getting free car from parents. After 5 years study, keluar2 dapat beli kereta murah.

Since gomen now under pressure to remove that 30% like in their manifesto, I will not buy a car now until I hear the budget 2013 which is around Sept-Nov. Might as well borrow other people's car or use parents car. If I can save RM5k if buying a car next year, I might as well do that. If confirm 30% remove over 5 years, then a RM75k car will be about RM50k at the end of 5 years. Instant devaluation of car. Now, if that was the case, I might as well borrow my parent's car until after that 30% is removed-just to minimise the loss suffered-if I am the kemut type, want to save money. I doubt many people will be that ultra conservative, though people with cars now, will just keep their cars for 5 years more, just to get a better car later. So, if I buy a RM75k car today, want to sell it some 5 years on, I may be selling it at RM30k. So, RM45k lost in 5 years. That is a lot to loose for resale value. Assuming I can sell for RM30k (RM20k less than new car-which after 5 years is unlikely). All cars, regardless of high RV or not will have resale value like Volvo (or worse) after 5 years ownership. The moment gomen announce the budget cut for cars, people will stop buying cars until they see price reduction. Car salesman new/used will tension. People who want to sell cars also will tension, knowing that they need to knock off certain % from their cars. People who have no car/loan will say, "bitter pill need to swallow so that people can get better cars". I'm sorry, but you are an idiot. You don't have car/loan, no problem la. People who have cars/loan, who use current cars as a finance method for a new cars will all suffer. Want to talk big, come back when you can pay me the amount I loose on the car. Imagine a 90% loan for a RM75k car, only to see that your loan is worth more than the car itself after 2 years. Madness. It is not like the loan will automatically go down following the new car prices yearly.

That is why, I have to agree with gomen on this. You need to look at the big picture. I also suspect Bank Negara already have this scenario I just described simulated. Next 5 years, if PR want to go announce a 70% cut in 5 years, then might s well comment them say-ini gila punya kerja. You see what happen to Venezuela. Sure Hugo Chavez, a socialist made the country have the most balanced pay structure, in the process, cripple the country's output. HC say to multinational car company-say must sell cars cheaper so that people can afford. They are too reliant on oil now compared to before he took power. Read more below.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20795781

Actually HC has good intentions, the problem is the whole world is playing capitalist (even Cuba and North Korea), but he is the only person seems to be playing socialist. Will not work. If whole world like socialist, can.

Sorry if I very blunt/kasar bahasa, but there comes a point when people need to understand drastic price reduction over short amount of time = is not healthy for the economy on all scales. Actually the worse off is not the super rich. Sure they loose more, but they can afford more. People who don't actually need a loan to buy a car are not that affected. Normal people like us who buy the <200k car, who use their current car as downpayment for new car and those with 90% loan are worse affected. Forget buying T, H for high RV, all will have low RV.

I really hope those PR politicians/those connected are reading this, and can start to be sensible for a change. If you know them, please show this thread. I'd be happy to discuss more. I think I covered all points. Personally, I want to see cheaper car price, but I don't want to foot the bill which is unlikely since I need/have a car. In fact, I'd go as far as say 30% over 10 years is better. Or, 70% over the space of 25 years. That way, at the end you will get cheaper car price, but since it is so gradual, the car devaluation will not be felt immediately. I don't think someone is willing to use their car for 25 years just to get a 70% tax discount. Though I might be wrong

Now, another important point to note is that, even gomen announce removal of tax in stages, there is no guarantee that car makers will price their cars lower. When NAP was announced/ino effect, PM had to actually tell car makers after few months, you must price your car lower. That is the problem with any reduction, severe or not. Mitsu will be happy sticking to that RM300k price rather than offer it at RM100k immediately after tax removed. Surely some desperate person will still buy that RM300K evo. Can make RM200k untung. Car salesman will be millionaires

If people still berkeras about that 70% car price, then does not understand how it will impact them, or does understand but not affected by it (generasi muda). They are the ones who will gain the most, at the expense of other people who owns a car.

This post has been edited by mystvearn: Jun 1 2013, 07:42 AM

I do not agree with your thoughts on reducing the car prices with 10 or 25 years time frame as it is way too long and may not happen at the end. It is because of this high car price that we are in this big loan with long repayment period predicament. Just because the current car owners which includes me that are the shorter end of the stick due to this policy then we should object is not logical, do remember that this is short term pain, long term gain policy. I can't comprehend that anyone would enjoy going into 7-9 year loan for 1st and 2nd car or more and this could happen if it is 10 to 25 years price reduction as you mention. If the reduction period is 5 years, after servicing the current loan then anyone will get to purchase a better car there after.

As for the 2nd hand car dealers, as you have said many will buy 2nd hand car to be their ride until the car they desire becomes affordable which means they can get rid of their current stock and plan accordingly. They will get trade-ins at lower price point too due to the car reduction and they can sell those. I do not agree there will be instant wipe off of value and they are business owners and will have to innovate to remain competitive or go bust.

You kept stressing that the grads/younger generation are the beneficiary of this car price reduction policy but do you think that when it is your turn to change car or to provide your children cars, you too, benefit on the lower price point?

Using the current car as a financial tool to buy a new car is because of the high car prices otherwise this should not happen if the car prices are affordable. If anyone would really need this kind of re-sale value to purchase the desired car then it is clearly that person cannot afford that car which he/she should re-think that decision.

The reason of after the NAP is in effect and require the PM to instruct the car sellers to reduce price is a clear indication that there are always buyers at all price points. Just this forum alone there are always ppl asking recommendation of cars and booking cars even though the government agreed to reduce the car prices. Even with the NAP in effect, do you feel that the car prices has gone down? If no, who do you think benefited from this?

You have given thoughts about drastic price decrease is not healthy for economy which as a consumer is always a boon but I do not see you giving thoughts that due to drastic price increase of the car prices back then have created the debts we have today. Perhaps you enjoy paying loans then that will explain your frustration.

I for 1 is going through a 7 year car loan and yes, my car will suffer a major devaluation if this car reduction comes into exercise but on the bright side, once i finish my loan, i will have more options which perhaps current 200k-300k price range will be within my affordability rather than waiting another 10 years for it! When my children is old enough to drive then i can buy a better and safer car than P1/P2 for them.

I do not think we're paying the price just for the younger generation, we're also doing it for ourselves too. Sorry for my wall of text.

Sorry, I actually missed this reply.

I agree with you. Not everyone will feel the pain and not everyone will agree with me also. Even those with outstanding loan may not feel the pain. My bad for not putting the caveat in there. I support 100% tax removal over a couple of years. I still do not support 20% removal of tax in a year. Today I read Proton announced 10% reduction in price tomorrow. Is this true?
http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/232914

Yes, everyone will benefit from lower price point. No question there. Even I will benefit. Only problem not everyone will be willing to stomach it head on. There will be people cursing themselves for finalising car payment today, only that 10% knocked out of price of Proton tomorrow. They will have to accept that, either they like it or not. So their 90% loan now = 100% loan.

Nope. Cars have always been used as a financial tool in the purchase of new cars. Except of course if the car is totalled. Easy point-just look at F&F forums, you will always see the RV thread pop-up from time to time. Even rich people use it. As long as there are stuff which can be resold on, people will resell it. Notice in international car reviews like whatcar/topgear/etc, people always mention "resale value". That RV is something whether you like it/care about it or not is a different matter. Lets say you don't care about RV, but time to sell your own car, you too will be hoping it gets a high price, so that you can use the income on other stuff.

Another example is the games industry. You see people get mad at Microsoft for not allowing used game sales. There are gamers who buy games by cashing in on their old games. Only problem with that is that Steam has made "digital selling" once owning/used the game kind of impossible. Then again, games are cheap enough that people can forgive to not see the RV. Also, there are some people who think that games should be treated like going to the cinema. You cannot sell back the ticket. You are getting an "experience" from going to the cinema. I myself fall in the earlier camp. Only buy games on steam <$10 and used PS3 games <£10 and only watch movies when it comes out on Astro/on the plane. Also will sale games back on ebay. Usually I am able to sell back at same price or slightly higher which is very good as technically I play games for free. I will not go to the cinema just to "see it early"-unless being invited by other people to go see. A year down, you can get Bluray versions cheap or just borrow from other people. So what if other people are talking about it and I'm out of the loop. Not a problem here. At the end of the day, if I go to cinema, need to spend money on transport, pay to watch and spend money on other stuff at the cinema. Does not change a single thing that you still get to watch movie at home/cinema. Want cinema experience? Get a projector, turn volume to deafening levels, sit in dark at home.

One thing people forget is that a car is an expenditure, it is not an investment. RV exists because people think a car is an investment. Well if you buy rare cars then yes. Some rare cars like the Ferrari 250GTO increases in price by quite a lot. So yes, you can buy it, keep it and sell it off to make more cash.

On the NAP, car prices did go down, but insignificant. I did not say I did not agree on this. I did say that even though prices go down on model X, it will still increase in price in future due to inflation. Only the Golf Mk7 remains the same price with the Mk6 which is kudos to VW which manages to maintain the price and still make a profit. The reason PM had to say car makers to decrees prices are everyone selling at same market price, so you lower tax, but if everyone are still selling at that price, you make more income. The problem here is actually why carmakers do that in the first place? This is because when the gomen first announce NAP, they did not say how many % tax was removed. It would be better if the gomen not only say how many % tax but also give immediate RRP on cars after % tax removal. That way, car makers are forced to sell cheaper-because everything is transparent. Going forward, I really hope gomen will come clean say we remove x% and this is the RRP car makers should sell cars after tax removal.

On the frustration bit, I actually have never bought a car in my entire life Motorbike yes (Modenas Kriss only), car, nope. I am thinking of other people. I actually am like the young undergrad you bring in 70% today, I will benefit instantly..even though people my age should have 3 kids by now . That is not said, I have not driven cars. I have been given cars to drive either by person/company and also maintain other people's cars. If I need a car, I rent. I benefit from having a 4 km workplace which I can commute by motor. In 5 mins I am in my office. Using a car will take 15 mins and that is just after parking. I dread that by the end of the year, I will need to make my first car purchase due to growing family. Good thing is that Proton already announce 10% discount, so can use that extra money to buy a new gaming rig to go with my DFGT. Only problem I face now is that, can I hold on until next year to see more price drops, after Bajet 2013 and get a 2014 car. That is my personal problem and due to the retard system we have in Malaysia, a 1st January 2014 car will have higher RV compared to a 31st Dec 2013 car. Safe to say, if you buy a car Oct>> and don't get discount, find agent that will give you discount. I cannot say I don't care about RV, but it exists and if I can get the most out of a car then yes.

Or maybe, since I have no experience on having any sort of loan over my head, then I may be wrong about that drastic price cuts. Could be true. Then my entire point about this is wrong! I also don't work for the car industry.

On the last point, I think for some even though car prices drop across the board, people will still buy proton. As a parent, I think my kids will get a P1/P2. Cheaper car better what. Can use the money for something else. I don't think the market will change dramatically in favour for overseas marques just because price goes down across the board. This is because, P1/P2 will still be cheaper than other makes. As long as you have a cheaper item, people will go for it. If not those Tesco Value/Kedai rakyat 1 malaysia/Mydin lingkup long time ago. There will always be a market for them. Same as there is a market for people who only go to Jusco. Now if people start complaining that is disadvantage P1 get protection. Go read history on US/Jap even german and korean cars. All got protection/incentives by own government. That is fact. Gomen will always give kickbacks to these companies. These companies provide jobs. Jobs make people happy cause they can buy stuff-Politicians happy cause they can run country. If no job then become like Greece, everyday riot. I am not pro proton, but I am pro "barangan buatan malaysia"/patriotic. It just so happens that Proton has more buatan malaysia than perodua. If VW own proton, then that is another matter. Cannot be patriotic there. I see that the small way I can help is buy buying local content. I think there is where you see the frustration from. Malaysians are one weird bunch of people. The moment you have equal items, they go for overseas one because it is "imported". I have to also mention that as much as I want to support local, I will buy that Honda Future 125cc motorbike as my next upgrade, and have samsung phone because even though malaysia can make smartphone, it does not have the ecosystem to support it. Unless of course, Modenas can source a very economical engine and a space to put helmet in seat, then I see myself going to get a Honda. There are more features on that Honda/Samsung phone over Modenas and the malayisan made phone.

That is just me. I live by the principles that a car = expenditure, not investment. Also, if car X and car Y have same spec, but car X cheaper, I will go with car X. That is just being prudent. Brand recognition is a powerful tool that car manufactures are too happy to exploit. Just because you can afford something, does not mean you should buy it.

Np, I kind of like to talk lengthy about this:) Differences exists because everyone will have different opinion.

Sorry for another lengthy reply

This post has been edited by mystvearn: Jun 14 2013, 06:28 PM

On another note, just to add:

Notice that a lot of car makers release their new models around Q3-Q4 and rarely Q1-Q2.

Reason:
Die hard fans will buy the car the moment it comes out at Q3-Q4. When it comes to Q4, car makers are reluctant to lower price because of "new model".
Then those a bit sensible will wait next Q1 to get the car. It also allows people to organise their finances after viewing the car.

On the preve hatchback-though coming out after raya is bad, I don't agree. However it does fall within the Q3-Q4 logic window. I agree if its release date is delayed due to testing and training purposes. Not delayed because "some bloke" diary is full and cannot commit time to just go launch the car. Then again, to get maximise press coverage you need the presence of "these" people.

That is really a good news for me.Many people are really looking for a cheap price because now a days many car are quite expensive.In Finland country many are saying that buying a cheap car is same as having a expensive car because everyday you are using it as travelling ,you park it in a pysäköinninvalvoja ,you pay for gasoline etc it is still expensive everyday that's why many of them is really into cheap but has a quality car.

You won't be able to afford a 100k car when you can just afford a 100k car with a 9 year loan now. Maybe then loans will only have a max of 3 years, perhaps 5.

Interesting discussion. My analysis concludes that the excise duty isn't the main source of our high car price problem. Would welcome any debates here:

http://www.kensomuse.com/the-fuss-about-new-car-prices/