This is really a hard case to settle because both party also have their reasons. I think it's best that both party discuss this over and try to compromise a solution. This is because PW and terms & conditions was not discussed properly.

One question that this raise up is, does PW includes defects due to another defects that has been settled?

Example here would be, minor keypad problem which already been negotiated by both party and agreed to deduct RM10. Later, withing PW period, the defect got worse up to unbearable condition. Is this worse condition covered under PW?

This is yes and no. Really hard to decide. You need human intepretation to decide depending on circumstances.

NO when HDD got 1 bad sector then later 10 bad sectors crops up. Cause it is common that when 1 bad sector occur, a lot will follow.

For eg, YES when screen have 1 dead pixel. Later, 5 more dead pixels came up.

Yet, this is still very debatable. Because the dead pixel could be due to problems on display chip or the board which if someone knowledgable knows will say no warranty or something.

So, it really comes down to having good faith with the deal.

No offence bro, just wanna ask DFlo.

Where did you get the RM10 repair cost from? Which shop quoted you that price? Just send unix11t there.

If there's no quote from any shop and the RM10 repair cost is based on your own assumption, then it's your fault.

Customer always right?

I think we must clarify wat is the real problem here.
The seller already told the buyer the phone got SPECIFIC problem and he accepted it nicely. Its a mutual agreement between the two of them. If not why is he selling at such low price, RM640? He could have jack up the price.
The seller already tested kaw kaw for 2 hours, not enuf?
Lesson to be learn is cheap stuff no good, good stuff no cheap.
just my another 2 cents here. no offence bros

yup... im behind Dflo... coz I always practice D.O.A. Dead on Arrival... buyer has tested it kaw kaw and already agreed to take the phone AS-IS...

and who knows what happened to the phone...1 day or even 1 hour after the transaction??

i was thinking about this case just now when driving..........

now i'm having some 2nd thoughts on what i said "seller, if you're reading this - for your name sake - just be kind enough to fork out 50% of the repair charges. "

why the 2nd thoughts?

here's why - IF the goods suddenly turned BAD. then unix11t should infrom Dflo straightaway and decide on next best move.

it's NOT FAIR for Dflo to pay any part of the repair charges as he did not have any agreement regarding sending for repairs.




and that is why he's complaining lor, cos now the phone is not AS-IS in the agreed condition. it went worse........

now it the phone went worse - that's where the personal warranty comes in IMO, but apparently anyone could easily finger the buyer and ignore the PW - that would be very convenient.



that's why in the end the buyer and seller have to negotiate already lor.

i think in this situation there's not only 1 to be blamed. as a seller sure u wont accept refund coz u already let the buyer know the problem and let him test it kaw kaw..

as a buyer surely u felt cheated coz the problem is not like the problem u appear during the 2 hrs test..

so the best thing is both of u slow talk and try to find a mid way.. help each other.

As I say earlier, if failed to show the quotation for repair cost of RM10, then it's the seller fault. Can be accused as fraud.

If seller is right, then I can simply assume any repair cost and sell all my faulty things lor.

suiteng, the buyer said the following............

as after nego he agree to reduce only rm10 of the price.which he give to me rm650. so it cost now 640. so rm10 discount for the repairing.

in which part of the 1st post did he mention that the seller say that repair cost is RM 10? what as mentioned is that the seller GAVE DISCOUNT of RM 10 discount for repairing of the part - it's like him chipping in RM 10 for the repair like that.

get it?

I don't agree with you on this. The seller already told the buyer about this problem and the buyer AGREED to take the item with RM10 as the deduction for repair. Buyer's lack of knowledge in repair fee is not the seller's problem. Seller also banked on this lack of knowledge sold it to him (intentionally or unintentionally). As a seller, he also want to sell his product. He might not be 100% honest here but hey..find me one seller in lowyat plaza that is 100% honest.

Moreover, we are talking about 2nd hand products here. Don't compare it with buying new products. It's totally different.

End of the day, both side is at fault.

ok sorry for the late reply since i juz got back from class.




than whut the perpose of the seller giving PW. DOA only apply when u do postage.

in this case, what i telling is that the problem is getting worse.

for what reason i willing to 50 50 with the seller if i dunt like the phone.

first of all, the problem as stated is the keypad not responsive at times and have to 1 time press up and then ok,but now altho pushing up, the keypad also not responsive later have to push push few times and with luck it manage to press the button.. the seller say its the rubber thingy in this thread, but when i bring to the o2 center they say it is a board problem.

for example.. u buy a car,the seller say aircon not cold due to gas finish.then u go to workshop they check and it was a faulty compresser.

whut do u feel. as at first u take the seller word saying its only a gas problem. now its a hardware problem. which will cost u quite alot.

do u think the price tat i get is consider cheap? rm640 with problem.

when u do the math 640+150= 790. i can get xphone2m for tat price.

first the reason i get this phone is because we were there already. and i belive tat it was only a keypad problem which can settle easily at the center and wont cost much.
but suprisely the center say it a board problem.how sad.

I agree to repair the keypad not repair the board. if the problem is because of the rubber. i wont post thos thread and make an issue out if it.


IMO the best way to settle this is by 50 50 fixing the problem or if the seller want the hp back juz refund me. as for me, both party is fault since i get the phone and the seller didnt know the real problem with his phone. so its a win win situation for both me and the seller. he is a good person but by having this issue it will not be nice.

p/s: wanna share with u. when in 2004 i sold a grafic card to a forumer here. i do cod with him. 3 days PW. then on the third day the buyer msg me saying the card burn already. i understand its hard to refund back the money. but what i do is, i refund back as its my responsibility to refund him since the stuff i sold got problem withing the PW period.have to take care of our customer maa.. Now in my case im willing to part with the seller to 50 50 repair it.


the actual time i tested was 1 hour. the rest is talking bout other thing and looking at the motorola v3 the seller wanna sell it.

and i was there not even 2 hours.
i pay my parking ticket for 1 1/2 hour.

and bro im not looking to eat up ur money or make play games. its juz i dunt feel satisfy with the way u do your after sales. its juz show how profesional are u in dealing with this kind of problem.

think bout it.

This post has been edited by unix11t: Apr 13 2006, 07:49 PM

[quote=vladimir,Apr 13 2006, 12:00 PM]
seller : i think the best is that u take back the hp and refund ( for both good sake )

for alternative solution :-

dont wan to coz more trouble here~ if u keep on defending for urself it wont help u to solve this problem. Customer always right. If your keypad/board doesnt have problem , your customer wont grumble here n there.

You did stated 3 DAYS WARRANTY for your client and if the problem happends within 3 DAYS of your personal WARRANTY then u better quickly solve this for your client. Since your client so good that he willing to open his wallet and pay ( 50-50 ) on ur behalf ( to be honest the buyer doesnt require to pay 1 cent during your 3 DAYS personal warranty )

Please be responsible and sporting thanks~ just my 2 cents~

[/quote]
Thank you for your views, vladimir, they're deeply appreciated.

First of all, the sentence "Customer always right." is not quite true in this case.

Why am I saying this?
#1: I stated the problem.

#2: If it wasn't stated absolutely clearly, it would have been when we did the COD. For nearly two hours, don't tell me that the buyer can't realise what sort of problem it is and how big the risk is?

#3: I've already did the discount. For what? For my customer to do the repair. It's not fair if I sell a faulty second hand Nokia 6680 at RM1150, right?

#4: If customer is always right, why don't you sell me the things you want to sell, at a cheap price and I return to you the next day (or any other day inside the warranty period?) and ask for either a full refund or a 50% repair claim? I'd be good (according to your quote) right?

edit #1: What do you actually mean by "if u keep on defending for urself it wont help u to solve this problem"?

Are you trying to tell me: "Aiyah, no need to argue lah. Argue for what? He right la." ?

Please think before speaking/typing.

No offence, brother.

[quote=abubin,Apr 13 2006, 12:18 PM]
This is really a hard case to settle because both party also have their reasons. I think it's best that both party discuss this over and try to compromise a solution. This is because PW and terms & conditions was not discussed properly.

One question that this raise up is, does PW includes defects due to another defects that has been settled?

Example here would be, minor keypad problem which already been negotiated by both party and agreed to deduct RM10. Later, withing PW period, the defect got worse up to unbearable condition. Is this worse condition covered under PW?

This is yes and no. Really hard to decide. You need human intepretation to decide depending on circumstances.

NO when HDD got 1 bad sector then later 10 bad sectors crops up. Cause it is common that when 1 bad sector occur, a lot will follow.

For eg, YES when screen have 1 dead pixel. Later, 5 more dead pixels came up.

Yet, this is still very debatable. Because the dead pixel could be due to problems on display chip or the board which if someone knowledgable knows will say no warranty or something.

So, it really comes down to having good faith with the deal.

[/quote]
Thank you for your views, abubin, they're deeply appreciated.

[quote=suiteng,Apr 13 2006, 12:18 PM]
No offence bro, just wanna ask DFlo.

Where did you get the RM10 repair cost from? Which shop quoted you that price? Just send unix11t there.

If there's no quote from any shop and the RM10 repair cost is based on your own assumption, then it's your fault.

[/quote]
Thank you for your views, suiteng, they're deeply appreciated.

I did not state that I can get a repair at RM10 for anywhere.

My point: OK, since you (unix11t) 're prepared to do the repairs, and you really want that phone, I'll give you an extra discount of RM10.

No offence, brother/sister.

[quote=gary_cheah85,Apr 13 2006, 12:28 PM]
Customer always right?

I think we must clarify wat is the real problem here.
The seller already told the buyer the phone got SPECIFIC problem and he accepted it nicely. Its a mutual agreement between the two of them. If not why is he selling at such low price, RM640? He could have jack up the price.
The seller already tested kaw kaw for 2 hours, not enuf?
Lesson to be learn is cheap stuff no good, good stuff no cheap.
just my another 2 cents here. no offence bros

[/quote]
Thank you for your views, gary_cheah85, they're deeply appreciated.

[quote=fariq_azad,Apr 13 2006, 02:09 PM]
yup... im behind Dflo... coz I always practice D.O.A. Dead on Arrival... buyer has tested it kaw kaw and already agreed to take the phone AS-IS...

and who knows what happened to the phone...1 day or even 1 hour after the transaction??

[/quote]
Thank you for your views, fariq_azad, they're deeply appreciated.

Exactly, I won't even know how the phone was being handled.

[quote=goldfries,Apr 13 2006, 02:45 PM]
i was thinking about this case just now when driving..........

now i'm having some 2nd thoughts on what i said "seller, if you're reading this - for your name sake - just be kind enough to fork out 50% of the repair charges. "

why the 2nd thoughts?

here's why - IF the goods suddenly turned BAD. then unix11t should infrom Dflo straightaway and decide on next best move.

it's NOT FAIR for Dflo to pay any part of the repair charges as he did not have any agreement regarding sending for repairs.
and that is why he's complaining lor, cos now the phone is not AS-IS in the agreed condition. it went worse........

now it the phone went worse - that's where the personal warranty comes in IMO, but apparently anyone could easily finger the buyer and ignore the PW - that would be very convenient.
that's why in the end the buyer and seller have to negotiate already lor.

[/quote]
Thank you for your views, goldfries, they're deeply appreciated.

[quote=irenic,Apr 13 2006, 03:06 PM]
i think in this situation there's not only 1 to be blamed. as a seller sure u wont accept refund coz u already let the buyer know the problem and let him test it kaw kaw..

as a buyer surely u felt cheated coz the problem is not like the problem u appear during the 2 hrs test..

so the best thing is both of u slow talk and try to find a mid way.. help each other.

[/quote]
Thank you for your views, irenic, they're deeply appreciated.


[quote=suiteng,Apr 13 2006, 03:22 PM]
As I say earlier, if failed to show the quotation for repair cost of RM10, then it's the seller fault. Can be accused as fraud.

If seller is right, then I can simply assume any repair cost and sell all my faulty things lor.

[/quote]
Thank you for your views, suiteng, they're deeply appreciated.

I believe I've made myself clear on your previous post.

[quote=goldfries,Apr 13 2006, 03:26 PM]
suiteng, the buyer said the following............

as after nego he agree to reduce only rm10 of the price.which he give to me rm650. so it cost now 640. so rm10 discount for the repairing.

in which part of the 1st post did he mention that the seller say that repair cost is RM 10? what as mentioned is that the seller GAVE DISCOUNT of RM 10 discount for repairing of the part - it's like him chipping in RM 10 for the repair like that.

get it?

[/quote]
Thank you for the defence, goldfries, they're deeply appreciated.

[quote=abubin,Apr 13 2006, 03:29 PM]
I don't agree with you on this. The seller already told the buyer about this problem and the buyer AGREED to take the item with RM10 as the deduction for repair. Buyer's lack of knowledge in repair fee is not the seller's problem. Seller also banked on this lack of knowledge sold it to him (intentionally or unintentionally). As a seller, he also want to sell his product. He might not be 100% honest here but hey..find me one seller in lowyat plaza that is 100% honest.

Moreover, we are talking about 2nd hand products here. Don't compare it with buying new products. It's totally different.

End of the day, both side is at fault.

[/quote]
Thank you for your two cents, abubin, they're deeply appreciated.

Thank you for bringing up a good point here, abubin.

I admit, I don't really know the exact problem. But in my explanation during the COD, I did not say that it's 100% this or that problem. I use the term "might".

[quote=unix11t,Apr 13 2006, 03:57 PM]
ok sorry for the late reply since i juz got back from class.
than whut the perpose of the seller giving PW. DOA only apply when u do postage.

in this case, what i telling is that the problem is getting worse.

for what reason i willing to 50 50 with the seller if i dunt like the phone.

first of all, the problem as stated is the keypad not responsive at times and have to 1 time press up and then ok,but now altho pushing up, the keypad also not responsive later have to push push few times and with luck it manage to press the button.. the seller say its the rubber thingy in this thread, but when i bring to the o2 center they say it is a board problem.

for example.. u buy a car,the seller say aircon not cold due to gas finish.then u go to workshop they check and it was a faulty compresser.

whut do u feel. as at first u take the seller word saying its only a gas problem. now its a hardware problem. which will cost u quite alot.

do u think the price tat i get is consider cheap? rm640 with problem.

when u do the math 640+150= 790. i can get xphone2m for tat price.

first the reason i get this phone is because we were there already. and i belive tat it was only a keypad problem which can settle easily at the center and wont cost much.
but suprisely the center say it a board problem.how sad.

I agree to repair the keypad not repair the board. if the problem is because of the rubber. i wont post thos thread and make an issue out if it.
IMO the best way to settle this is by 50 50 fixing the problem or if the seller want the hp back juz refund me. as for me, both party is fault since i get the phone and the seller didnt know the real problem with his phone. so its a win win situation for both me and the seller. he is a good person but by having this issue it will not be nice.

p/s: wanna share with u. when in 2004 i sold a grafic card to a forumer here. i do cod with him. 3 days PW. then on the third day the buyer msg me saying the card burn already. i understand its hard to refund back the money. but what i do is, i refund back as its my responsibility to refund him since the stuff i sold got problem withing the PW period.have to take care of our customer maa.. Now in my case im willing to part with the seller to 50 50 repair it.
the actual time i tested was 1 hour. the rest is talking bout other thing and looking at the motorola v3 the seller wanna sell it.

and i was there not even 2 hours.
i pay my parking ticket for 1 1/2 hour.

and bro im not looking to eat up ur money or make play games. its juz i dunt feel satisfy with the way u do your after sales. its juz show how profesional are u in dealing with this kind of problem.

think bout it.

[/quote]
Alright, my purpose of my personal warranty is clearly stated in page 1.

You keep saying that you can get a new phone at RM790. But you should have known, that this phone is NOT at its personal best (100%). You should have did the maths at home. I'm here to sell. I explain whatever I know about the phone, and be as honest as I can. I don't want to sell the phone and go back worrying. I believe in what I do, I get it back.

You believe that it was a keypad problem. That was what I believed too. You're actually taking a risk, do you know that? As a faulty phone buyer, I know what risks are. It'll mean that what you think might not be the reality. Ask my faulty phone sellers, did I open up the phone and check each and every parts? (e.g. Oh no, lower the price because this I.C. is missing or whatever.)

I'm quite impressed by your concept of personal warranty. Your client bought the card, and on the third day it burnt and you refunded him back? I think that's very ridiculous but since you said that you did it, I'm impressed. But no, sorry, I don't practise this unfair personal warranty.

Please take note that I said near two hours at the very beginning.

And, talking about professionalism.

By the way, I'm going to upload two pictures regarding the SMS thing which I stated in page 1.

This post has been edited by DFlo: Apr 13 2006, 11:48 PM

At first keypad, and then board?

Which to trust?


Attached thumbnail(s)

And for those who haven't given their views and wish to do so, please feel free to drop in your ideas but I suggest you read and understand everything before posting to avoid giving out misleading information.

Thank you everyone.

This post has been edited by DFlo: Apr 14 2006, 12:01 AM

Alright i think we can help decide who's at fault with some simple questions :

1) Did the seller say "Oh the key is sometimes unresponsive because of the keypad, it's pretty cheap to repair" or did he say "I'm not sure what the problem is, but i think it's the keypad la, got dust or something"
Well of course i dont mean in those exact words but did he tell u that he knows its the keypad problem, or it's just his guess?

2) You tested the phone for 2 hours and was happy with the keypad. When u went home it suddenly got worst?
How do u think the seller made it such that it only lasted good for that period of time?

This post has been edited by KilJim: Apr 14 2006, 01:33 AM

Well, for answer #1, I told him it might be the keypad, since if you push the navigation key down for a few times, the two top buttons (below the screen) become non-responsive. BUT when you push up, it's becomes normal again. It's like the rubber or something gets displaced. Push it up, good to go again. I definitely did not give him a 100% answer.

For answer #2, only unix11t (the buyer) knows what was going on. I really can't understand.

This post has been edited by DFlo: Apr 14 2006, 02:02 AM

Signing off for now. Will be back later.

I think I'm behind Dflo in this since it has been clarified thoroughly.

Buying a faulty phone doesn't mean the seller award you with a "perfect phone" warranty.

ok let me make u under stand whut the problem.

when cod tat day. i tested the thing and it have the non responsive problem as the seller stated. than after taking the seller words which he say might be a dust or a rubber problem. i took the phone and ask for a discount due to the problem. the seller dunt want to give discount at the first place. than later he only wan to give discount for rm 10. i accept it and thinking that the problem is like stated by the seller.

when using the phone , the problem occur more rapidly and at times it cant event response.so i went to the service center to check it up and wanted to repair the problem. i was shocked at the service center as they say the problem is because of the board. not like stated by the seller which is the rubber or dust under it.

so now i know the problem is the board not the rubber thinggy or dust as claim by seller.

i didnt test the phone for the solid 2 hour.estimated 1 hour. i pay my parking ticket for 1 1/2 hour. how do i been there longer then 1 1/2 hour?




i tested it for the whole nite. and still tested it for the rest of the day(saturday before go to the service center at 6pm) the problem getting worse.maybe its not my luck the thing get worse. is not like when i went back,i simply make the phone worse. what is the point i go and do cod with the seller.travel so far juz to get a phone and spoil it. pay for the parking and went tru traffic and rain juz for it.

whut im saying is that, the goods tat the seller sold is getting worse. the problem is worse compare at the time he sells it to me. and the service center stated its was a faulty board. which is not stated by the seller when we do the deal. and i contact the seller and let him know the problem within the PW period.

if i know at the first place it was a faulty board. i would not buy the phone.i buy because the seller manage to convince me its was a dust problem or the rubber problem.

so may i ask u.

1.what the point of giving personal warranty?

2.whut actually do u cover in your PW? (the phone cant turn on then u cover?mayb tat time u say im making it cannot turn on)

3.Why dont u check the actual problem in the first place.(u make ppl confuse when they find out the real problem)

4.on what condition will you cover your PW???

5. what kind of ways will u cover your PW??(refund/repair)



by the way when u read this guideline PW inlowyat thread you will notice in sentect 3
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=260354





i appreciated all the forumer comment. i try to solve this matter asap with the seller. if and only if the seller be more tolerate.

no point we comment so much already. everyone expressed their opinion.

IMO both of you have your points, i understand both sides but at this point it is difficult to actually say who's right and who's wrong.

up to both of you to negotiate something you can agree on.

for me - i see it that if personal warranty does not cover detriorated phone condition - what else does it cover?

ok laaa just a bit more from me...

Buying faulty phone = always risky
Agreed to buy faulty phone = accept the consequences
Faulty phone = BOTH dont know what the ACTUAL problem is...

so faulty phone = RM 640
err unfaulty second phone = RM 850 (lets just say) (I really dont know the market price for second Xphone2)

so if repair cost = RM 10 = 850 -640 -10 = buyer untung 200
so if repair cost = RM 60 = 850 -640 -60 = buyer untung 150
so if repair cost = RM 150 = 850 -640 -150 = buyer untung 60

err just a matter of getting a very very good deal for the phone or just a little good deal from it...

err can look at it this way ah?

respects to both parties

This post has been edited by fariq_azad: Apr 14 2006, 02:34 PM