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 EPF DIVIDEND, EPF

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Wedchar2912
post Apr 13 2023, 11:49 AM

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QUOTE(Unkerpanjang @ Apr 13 2023, 08:14 AM)
Good morning, Bro.

Yes, even at my advanced age.

It's everyone aspiration to improve from multi-millionaire to be multi-millionares. (Same as improving my Inggeris)
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You want to be a deca-millionaire is it?
multi usually implies more than 1 and is understood within the finance circle to just mean that.

Centi-millionaire is the other level you can aim.


Wedchar2912
post Apr 13 2023, 12:51 PM

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QUOTE(Unkerpanjang @ Apr 13 2023, 12:04 PM)
Walau! Unker trying to digest all the interest vs loan msg. Already headache.

Now kena like WWE, tag team champion (Commodore Char) beat me up.

Unker beg for mercy. I know Poor English is my fault.

Unker actually decimal-millionaire.
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haha... no lar... no tagging of any kind....

btw unker... decimal-millionaire technically implies something like
0.1 million
0.7 million...

lol.... unker definitely is a deca-decimal-millionaire.... 10.8 million... rclxm9.gif tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Apr 13 2023, 12:52 PM
Wedchar2912
post Apr 15 2023, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Apr 15 2023, 01:10 PM)
Almost half of 74,392 applicants qualify for MBSB Bank’s FSA2 loans amounting to RM722m  rclxms.gif

The Employees Provident Fund (EPF) said almost half or 34,643 of the 74,392 applications received under MBSB Bank’s Ihsan-i Account 2 Support Facility (FSA2) are qualified to obtain loans amounting to RM722 million.

In a statement on Saturday (April 15), EPF chief executive officer Datuk Seri Amir Hamzah Azizan said the number of applications for FSA2 is expected to increase with the launch of Bank Simpanan Nasional’s (BSN) MyRinggit Insan-i facility on the same day.

“We want to clarify that this facility is targeted towards EPF members who have savings in Account 2, and are supported by a reasonable income to ensure they can afford the personal financing and committed to the monthly repayments without compromising their retirement income adequacy and security. It is essential to note that the monthly repayments are necessary to ensure that the loans are repaid on time,” he added.

Members are required to pay the monthly repayments as per their agreements with the banking institutions[B],” it added.  brows.gif

https://www.theedgemarkets.com/node/663487
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nice... on average, each person borrowed almost 20K rm.... MBSB stands to make like 7 million net rev each year...

but the credit/money supply creation is too small.... need to fast fast ramp it up to 100 billion please... spur the economy!!!! tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Apr 15 2023, 02:29 PM
Wedchar2912
post Apr 15 2023, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Apr 15 2023, 04:19 PM)
well...
baby steps...
now only opens...
after Raya u see... then where the fun starts  tongue.gif
maybe those applied read from LYN...
take up the offer & dump the $$$ into EPF back  laugh.gif

small numbers probably boycott.... many want direct withdraw....
these who applied is pro-madani???  innocent.gif
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I was thinking the bulk of the applications would be before Raya... to spend for the celebrations.
But it could be that just 1 bank is not able to clear all the applications/meet the full demand.

hopefully this liquidity helps those who really needed it, while in the same time spur the economy.
Wedchar2912
post Apr 15 2023, 08:11 PM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 15 2023, 07:44 PM)
If you think by taking loan to spur the economy 🤦‍♀️ then you are in trouble

Then only way to spur is to have more quality FDI, raising wages and quality of life instead of thinking borrowing out of your to stimulate the economy 🤦‍♀️

The debt spiral will keeps on going till death if thinking this way
No it is Personal Loan payable monthly

If 3 months failed payment it will be converted to conventional rates and then once debt spiral will go on and on till one is declared bankrupt

The banks still need a court order to offset using the EPF balance only after a certain period but after 10 years term is ended then it is automatically applied to EPF directly to collect the amount owed
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I am surprised that you think FDI is the only way... truly surprised.

it is not the loan but the spending that helps with the economy. GDP is made up of spending. eg: I make my own chair from old woods, no gdp increase. Now if I buy a chair.....
Wedchar2912
post Apr 15 2023, 10:03 PM

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QUOTE(gooroojee @ Apr 15 2023, 09:00 PM)
So does it work per Xanders explanation below?
Ok, so meaning bank will claim the debt inclusive all interest from our EPF after 10 years.. so someone can still take a 50k loan, use it to buy a car, then refuse to pay, and just let the bank reclaim from his EPF funds 10 years later la... still a withdrawal lah, except with additional costs incurred..

-------

On the flip side.. the rich can get richer if someone who doesn't need money can just take a 50k loan at 4.5%, then put it right back into EPF as self contribution and make above 5%...
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in Malaysia, there is a timeline/period where one can be discharged from being a bankrupt. i hardly did any research about personal bankruptcy, but I don't think the period is as long as 10 years.

I wonder how this is going to pan out.... maybe next year we will read news about persons who borrowed 50K and then declared bankrupt. but his funds in EPF is still safe????
Wedchar2912
post Apr 15 2023, 10:22 PM

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QUOTE(Super2047 @ Apr 15 2023, 10:11 PM)
It's still safe, until age50/55 where the bank can tarik the money from the person EPF. Actually this loan will be a 'poison' for those that don't manage their money well. Once they start defaulting and kena high interest rate compounded, age of 50/55 will be a night mare for them. Imagine a 15-18% compounding interest charge on RM50K. That would easily become RM200-300K owe to the bank after 10 years.  shocking.gif
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This is the part which I don't understand....
say today person A went and borrow 50K rm.... he also have a few other loans elsewhere... he spent the 50K rm, and next year he declares bankruptcy. According to the bankruptcy law, they will salvage whatever but money in EPF cannot be touched. In the same time, whatever bankcruptcy status will be discharged within like say 7 years (this part I am not sure if it is 3 or 5 or 7 years etc). So after the period ends, he is a free man again.

so it is kinda interesting if my understanding is accurate.

Any bankruptcy specialists here???? can share if my understanding is close to any reality?
Wedchar2912
post Apr 15 2023, 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(leo_kiatez @ Apr 15 2023, 10:55 PM)
Epf is untouchable, but to withdrawal need to goes through bank account & eventually be confiscated? How bankruptcy status can be discharged after 7yrs?
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funds from EPF can go to any bank account under one's single name in any bank... Doesn't have to go through MBSB for example.

a bankrupt can apply to be discharged from bankruptcy after certain number of years...
Wedchar2912
post Apr 15 2023, 11:18 PM

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QUOTE(Rinth @ Apr 15 2023, 10:57 PM)
How come bankruptcy status will be discharged after whatever amount of years?

The bankruptcy need repay all the outstanding loan before he can discharged from the status no?
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By applying to court.... its like asking for pardon I guess....

no idea about the requirements of paying back all the loans... pretty sure that is not a requirement, as bankruptcy is frequently used to protect oneself from creditors.... (that's what I sometimes read anyways)
Wedchar2912
post Apr 17 2023, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Apr 17 2023, 12:15 PM)
In a sense, this is very good news for those of us who already know that contributor's fund in EPF is creditor proof. This news just reinforces this.

Now how the FI is going to "insure" the loans distributed out, we shall need to see how this pan out as time passes and how our financial system/court system decide.
Wedchar2912
post Apr 17 2023, 03:40 PM

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QUOTE(dwRK @ Apr 17 2023, 03:20 PM)
eh... i remember not too long ago got ppl bash me... say this is super low risk sure win bank laughing all the way... lol...
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that's the distinction between a person with experience and logic, vs others simply main tembak...

The "insurance" thingy is a small matter really.... based on how much is disbursed out as personal loan (last news was like 700 million ringgit type), it is nothing and any NPL can be absolved by the FIs in Malaysia. It is part and parcel of what a bank does.
... can even call it national service if wish to... console.gif


But I am really glad that the creditor proof concept is still upheld... I would think many of us here would be very annoyed if it is not so... suddenly someone entity can go claim your funds in EPF due to some docs you signed...
Wedchar2912
post Apr 19 2023, 02:23 PM

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QUOTE(Super2047 @ Apr 19 2023, 02:17 PM)
MBSB is charging 3% upfront for the takaful insurance. Applied RM50K, only get RM48500 .... Really potong stilm... biggrin.gif
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so on the first year alone MBSB/FIs would have made 3% + 1% (rate spread) = 4% from the 700 odd million notional approved.
nice weh...
Wedchar2912
post Apr 19 2023, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(CommodoreAmiga @ Apr 19 2023, 02:29 PM)
No free lunch. Sokong MBSB.
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errrr...... its ok.... my exposure to MBSB via EPF is adequate... smile.gif
Wedchar2912
post Apr 19 2023, 11:38 PM

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QUOTE(virtualgay @ Apr 19 2023, 10:50 PM)
2.75% for 100k i think same rate for 50k as well you give it a try

user posted image
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2.75% here is the flat rate (same type like car Hire Purchase).

that's why the Effective rate is 5.04% (this rate is closer to FD or EPF dividend yield rate, and should be the one used to do comparison).

In this case, hardly any arbi between taking 50K out from epf vs borrowing 50K this method.
Wedchar2912
post Apr 20 2023, 11:44 AM

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QUOTE(Super2047 @ Apr 19 2023, 11:51 PM)
Just found out this Rize loan can be up to 7 years. Very good.
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It is worst actually... if the rate remains as 2.75% flat for 7 years, then your Effective rate will be higher...


https://loanstreet.com.my/calculator/flat-t...rest-calculator
here's a online calculator to explain.
the flat rate is like the rate you would use for hire purchase/car loan...
Effective Interest Rate is like home mortgage rate (reducing term loan).. this rate is the rate one should use to compare to FD and EPF div rate.

edit: technically there is a tipping point where longer will be better (but the effective rate will always be higher)... because flat rate formula is a linear formula, while effective int rate is compounding.

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Apr 20 2023, 11:51 AM
Wedchar2912
post Apr 20 2023, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(dwRK @ Apr 20 2023, 01:30 PM)
go try 50 yrs... come back let me know... wink.gif

the longer the loans... they converge to same number...
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it becomes a perpetuity... so flat or not, just paying the interest component. smile.gif
MBSB should offer this and force the applications to buy life insurance only.... lol...
Wedchar2912
post Apr 22 2023, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(virtualgay @ Apr 22 2023, 02:26 PM)
Masuk another RM50 to EPF

user posted image
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why lar you send today? should do it on Tuesday... it will still be starting on 30th April the div accrual calculation.
Wedchar2912
post Apr 22 2023, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(virtualgay @ Apr 22 2023, 02:42 PM)
I dont know must send on month end
I just do it on a weekly basis if I have left overs then I put inside
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oh... don't misunderstand...
one can send anytime, but no matter when you send during the month, the dividend accrual calculation will only start at end of the month.

ie say you send on 1st of April or 10th or 22 April, it is the same as you sending it on 25th of April.
Money must just reach EPF by the last day of the month, as all deposit for the month of April gets calculated starting on 30th April.
Wedchar2912
post Apr 23 2023, 04:25 PM

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QUOTE(koaydarren @ Apr 23 2023, 02:54 PM)
Allowing epf withdrawal it's like a drug. They will find any excuse to support their points instead of working. Apart from medical, education, and housing, I don't see a point at all for allowing early withdrawal. All these reasons are allowed for withdrawal in fact.
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too much attention focused on epf... the root cause, imho, is that the majority of us are already addicted to various form of drugs called free money, donations, gov freebies, etc... that it is now ingrained into the society as part of our dna.

it used to be one needs to be honest, loyal, hard working, do the right thing and get rewarded fairly.
Lets honestly ask ourselves if you want to be associated with any of the above attributes this day and age by your manager? lol... the next word from your friends would be you are stupid. sad.gif

oh well... back to epf withdrawal, the dam has already start leaking. may as well hope the liquidity flow will help those downstream to enjoy whatever short term gain they can enjoy.

(ie no solutions but then again, it is government's worry... not mine as an individual in the system)
Wedchar2912
post Apr 24 2023, 12:47 PM

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QUOTE(Unkerpanjang @ Apr 24 2023, 12:30 PM)
Wah! Unker can only explain in terms of Marvel Multiverse.

We forumers are all wired differently, hence respectfully debating in different  backgrounds, Multiverse reality, different frequency.

Will a bank go bankcrupt, sure why not, but whats the probability vs possibility?

Hence, we have high profile forumers very financially inclined, that will siphon all RM$ to USD, SG because of perceived risk with Malaysia. Does this risk involves banks, etc going into financial ruin? Likely ar. We oso have high  profile forumers that buy Physical properties,  Gold, Crypto, as alternate Wealth. Why do so? Does this include counterparty risk, RM going into tailspin? Likely ar.

When a forumers, wealth n financial  horizon expands...that person will likely build more financial moats. Some of scenario planning, will seem improbable to others.

Age is another reason...ada anak, etc risk toletance oso different.

What the mind perceives...will ultimate drive the beliefs and hence subsequent actions. What we dont believe, doesnt mean its not true.
Unker uses LY to see both sides of an arguement.
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haha...

so Unker... you hinting to us that certain persons is living in their own reality and hence talk in their own frequency?

tongue.gif

edit: apparently someone is feeling the heat and kept on reporting on my reply whenever I call out lies. Hope it is not you unker... tongue.gif
nonetheless, even if it is you ( we know who it is and it is not you right unker?), I am fine.... public forum here and I try my best to help inform people about EPF and investments.

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Apr 24 2023, 06:46 PM

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