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 EPF DIVIDEND, EPF

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Wedchar2912
post Mar 4 2022, 12:09 AM

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QUOTE(Human Nature @ Mar 3 2022, 11:32 PM)
Can call it scam or leech or parasite program biggrin.gif

I don't prefer to use the term poor or rich member because it is simply misleading and becomes a mantra for the tier proponents to justify their cause.
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I prefer calling it the leech system... because when a certain ex-PM said it, it does sound to be like what he is asking is the same of story of asking the less endowed members to continue be leeches solely based on available balance in their EPF account.

Oh yes, i meant endowed EPF members.... they are endowed with what? a bit of luck but definitely lotsa hard work to accumulate such balances. biggrin.gif
Wedchar2912
post Mar 4 2022, 11:38 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 4 2022, 09:48 AM)
Oops . Got reported.
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lol.... damn funny lor...

What you meant is if tak suka about epf having tiering, then ambik keluar lor the funds.... right?

Wedchar2912
post Mar 4 2022, 03:10 PM

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QUOTE(!@#$%^ @ Mar 4 2022, 03:04 PM)
who knows. that's y not sure why ppl still wanna pump in money into epf.
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a better question is why people still keep money in CASA and/or FD.

those are even more dangerous... your money can simply be locked up and disappear....

(just trying to elicit some critical thinking on readers)

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Mar 4 2022, 03:10 PM
Wedchar2912
post Mar 4 2022, 03:22 PM

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QUOTE(!@#$%^ @ Mar 4 2022, 03:11 PM)
....
hmmm this is debatable actually.
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The debate is more on uncertainty and inability to fully predict the future. All things come with risks, whether we are aware or not.

For example: just because SGD is relatively liquid and freely tradable, it doesn't mean one should throw all of one's wealth into SGD (unless one is a singaporean and living there, but even that also may not be a great idea). All you need is a flareup of tension in SEA and there does the calm in SG.

Back to topic at hand, EPF is what it is... if one has a lot of free cash floating around, keeping it in EPF vs putting in CASA/FD basically contain the same kind of risk. If one thinks gov can simply take away EPF's funds, gov can also do the same on banks. But how probable is each scenario?

I in reality am very comforted by the fact that 60K members has excess of 1 mio in EPF and another 248 uber endowed EPF members have excess of 10 mio in EPF... these people statistically are not stupid. Some may just be lucky, but statistically no way they are dumber than the mass.

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Mar 4 2022, 03:28 PM
Wedchar2912
post Mar 4 2022, 03:42 PM

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QUOTE(Micky78 @ Mar 4 2022, 03:31 PM)
looking forward the 2021 statistic.. to see how many member had downgrade to lower tier...
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I am going to guess that there will be an increase of 10 to 15K members to 1 mio and above. So 80 to 90K people will have more than 1 mio in EPF. just curious how many more will be deca-millionaires in Epf balance.
Wedchar2912
post Mar 4 2022, 05:43 PM

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QUOTE(Ankle @ Mar 4 2022, 05:12 PM)
KWSP under system maintenance now.
Exact 6.1pct dividend amount to be known shortly.
bruce.gif  rclxms.gif  icon_idea.gif
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No need to wait... I already knows mine: self calculate. biggrin.gif
Wedchar2912
post Mar 5 2022, 02:40 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Mar 5 2022, 01:49 PM)
british and american pronounced the same?
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Americans always called it "flower"

British no idea.

But my English teacher last time insist it is flour. Not bunga.lol
Wedchar2912
post Mar 6 2022, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 6 2022, 10:53 AM)
i have not bought any SG mall REITs since then. However, i have Chinese mall REITs. Doing reasonably well.
The logistics REITs are doing very well.
European and US office REITs are doing very well too.
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Did you purchase them in SG (ie using a SG brokerage firm) and/or different accounts for the EU and US reits?

if don't mind, can share which brokerage you use?
Wedchar2912
post Mar 6 2022, 03:37 PM

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QUOTE(TheEquatorian @ Mar 6 2022, 03:27 PM)
I do 60k in January, never investigated if it affects the dividend differently but the amounts have been reflected properly. I suppose I would get 11/12 of % for that or according to a daily interest calculation - anyone knows?
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Essentially whatever you put in for the month, the interest calculation starts counting from the end of that month. So it doesn't matter if you put in on 1st or 25th, it will start on 31 Jan (for Jan month).

my dividend is off my 2 sen, so the calculation method above should be accurate. don't know why off by 2 sen, but I am not OCD, so don't care....
Wedchar2912
post Mar 6 2022, 10:16 PM

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QUOTE(c64 @ Mar 6 2022, 09:57 PM)
Hey! Mine also 2 cents missing! I think there is a conspiracy....11 million account x 2 cents=???
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dang... is that how they accumulate 10 million ringgit to fund their csr?
haha...

I wonder if others face similar shortfalls... kinda weird and too coincidental that our calculations is off by a few cents. Usually error would be much bigger if we get the logic/math off.
Wedchar2912
post Mar 6 2022, 11:57 PM

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QUOTE(cute_boboi @ Mar 6 2022, 11:38 PM)
My dividend for A/C 1 is off by one-cent. My calculation is xxx.279 round up to xxx.28
EPF calculation is xxx.27

A/C 2 is correct. My calculation is xxx.234 round down to xxx.23
EPF calculation is xxx.23

icon_rolleyes.gif
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oh... good catch.

i didn't not calculate based on separate accounts; so the "error" is a rounding problem based on 2 separate balance vs my excel using only 1 balance. makes sense now...

one less item checked. At least EPF is honest... :-P
Could that be why earlier theedge thought dividend was 6.15% vs 6.10%? lol... EPF likes to round round.....
Wedchar2912
post Mar 8 2022, 12:23 PM

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QUOTE(c64 @ Mar 8 2022, 12:02 PM)
Yeah, i also don't understand.
Why the manual withdrawal? Means with manual withdrawal, then you will need to do all the fingerprint scanning and ic checking? After manual withdraw can immediately online withdraw?

Minta pencerahan from magika

I will be going there in a couple of years to fight with EPF.
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The following is based on my experience, but it was like 8-10 years ago, so I cannot remember all the details.

Essentially went to a EPF office, ask the customer service person there on what to do. I was provided a form to fill (luckily I brought along the bank statement of the account I want to link) and after like 15 minutes at the counter, all was done. Need the usual IC, thumbprint etc.
a few days later i just tried withdrawing like 100rm and the money came into my account after a few days.

They have some cutoff time thingy, which I do not really care much. Since then, every once a while I will withdraw a few hundred just to make sure the facility/process remains the same. smile.gif

What i know is by forcing the member to "link" the bank account account offline(in person in EPF office) is a very good idea. A lot safer and less prone to online fraud.


This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Mar 8 2022, 12:27 PM
Wedchar2912
post Mar 8 2022, 12:26 PM

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QUOTE(KIP21 @ Mar 7 2022, 04:58 PM)
Yes, all in from month salary after whatever deduction... then if you are the 1mil and above team, then you just need to withdraw it from epf monthly on your expenses  smile.gif Its no amount limit and also number of times per year I guess. smile.gif

Very interesting info here indeed. smile.gif
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There is a amount limit... 30K rm per withdrawal. So essentially can only withdraw 30K per biz day.
But in all earnesty, normal people like us will not consider 30K per withdrawal as a limit/problem.

but overall no annual limit as long as balance remains above 1 mio for those below 55/60 years old.
Wedchar2912
post Mar 8 2022, 12:30 PM

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QUOTE(c64 @ Mar 8 2022, 12:26 PM)
Oh, so i just bring a bank book along in that case, since i still have this maybank account with a Bank book (but not updated for a long time...lol).
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Yes, should be. Bank book should work as well I think.

I vaguely remember the customer service person actually electronically verified that the bank and bank account number I provided matches my IC name. Apparently they have access to all the bank's account info somehow... (or maybe just name... much like giro or duitnow).


Wedchar2912
post Mar 8 2022, 01:46 PM

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QUOTE(KIP21 @ Mar 8 2022, 01:14 PM)
OH thanks. This is a concern then, having only 30k max perday which limits me for only maximum 22 days per month withdrawal only...

lol.

Don't think I reach even there... 🤣😁😅
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lol... when I told my old colleagues this, they also looked concerned....

until explained to them that this is the online limit: per day 1 withdrawal of max 30K rm.
If need say 1 million withdrawal, either takes like 1.5 months to do it (frankly, how nice to wake up everyday and login to just take out 30K rm) or walk in to EPF office and request 1 million withdrawal in person.

psk.... just make sure no one follows you home from EPF... tongue.gif sweat.gif whistling.gif


(so, for someone with say 20K rm spending requirement per month, just login daily and withdraw 1K rm per day for 20 days in the month. That way, one still get daily rest interest on the amount not yet withdrawn until end of the month mah...
10K rm at 6% dividend is RM 1.64 per day delayed. Can we still buy coffee at kopitiam at this price? lol)

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Mar 8 2022, 01:49 PM
Wedchar2912
post Mar 8 2022, 02:08 PM

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QUOTE(c64 @ Mar 8 2022, 01:55 PM)
17 years old can open EPF account? What's the minimum age?
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can... like what MUM mentioned, 14. according to the law....

i opened mine at 16 during Form 4 working part time during school holidays.... back then I thought Parkson was trying to steal my money... lol...
Wedchar2912
post Mar 8 2022, 07:43 PM

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QUOTE(Unkerpanjang @ Mar 8 2022, 06:54 PM)
Haha, caught unker attention. Lets debate the rational of that decision....
1. Member can easily nominate daughter to % of kwsp $. Why must transfer now?
2. Why to kwsp, the poor girl cannot touch the money except those exceeding $1M? $50-60k pocket allowance?
3. Unless, foster, adopted, good friend...daughter?
4. Hmm, unlikely for a person to just have $10m in kwsp, n no other investment?

Again, unker kaypoh...haha!
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for discussion sake.

Need to go back to the original and main purpose of EPF, which is a pension scheme of sorts. The aim is to provide a way for members/workers to save their income during the working life segment of their life for old age.

Inheritance and transfer of wealth is outside the scope of EPF, and it should remain that way. No point add salt and pepper.
Wedchar2912
post Mar 9 2022, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(shamino_00 @ Mar 9 2022, 08:45 AM)
The same group of people or would tend to have this line of mindset, I would say

1. They want to increase limit of the contribution to EPF, 60K or all kind of systematic abuse from employer side contribution or whatever
2. They want to preserve wealth in EPF buy passing around the money to transfer to their kins account or so on
3. They are very against the tiered dividend proposal hoo haa drums by the press and some writers

These are bunch of group my selfish interest first and only the rich will think of.

I would say if EPF allows 1. Unlimited contribution, and 2. Wealth can pass around in EPF to another account.

Then I would say option 3....Tiered dividend, to be FAIR...to be fair ya, EPF to implements it. Fair point?
YOu can stuff 1 milliion into EPF unlimited contribution, you can pass and transfer to whoever you want kids, daughter, son, favourite aunt whatever...

but then the higher your account, you get a CAP % (tiered) of that amount.....the investment dividend return EPF got out of that income then increase to the B40 or the lower.

Let say, this year EPF announce those below 100K in account gets 8%, between 100 to 1million 6%, above 1 million 4%.....fair deal? Then EPF really need to work out, and the Gov also need to see...can they get inheritance tax, so on, all party of interest will definitely comes in when talking about pie distribution and about money...will attract bosskur attention
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I just want to focus on the tiered div point as you seemed to get very confused.
Tiered dividend rate. Lets split the people into a few main categories:
a) rich and support : just do your own donation. no need to trouble EPF to do it for you
b) rich and disagree : it is their right. Being selfish is a lesser problem than being greedy and a leech
c) poor and support : I leave this uncommented
d) poor and disagree : I salute them
e) middle and support : lets cut off the teiring at 50K rm and see if you still support
f) middle and disagree : rare group

But I know one thing, lets try to implement this first for the Shariah EPF and see it is halal or not.


"...those below 100K in account gets 8%, between 100 to 1million 6%, above 1 million 4%..."
And if you know how to count, why not you count and see if your version makes mathematical sense? Thanks to BN government, there are not enough "rich" people anymore.
There is a reason why MLM is a pyramid scheme, not called a reverse pyramid scheme.

Wedchar2912
post Mar 9 2022, 11:34 AM

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QUOTE(Human Nature @ Mar 9 2022, 11:28 AM)
...

A member on RM1200 min wage, statutory contribution rate, working for 40 years (25 to 65 years old), avg dividend rate 5% - would accumulated RM265k.

....

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and I think you didn't even allow any salary increment right?

which also begs the question. whose fault is it that we are still a low income country?
Wedchar2912
post Mar 9 2022, 12:00 PM

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QUOTE(Human Nature @ Mar 9 2022, 11:42 AM)
Correct, just to show the worst case scenario and contra with inflation.

Now what if I multipy the salary by 2x (constant), that would put the end amount to be RM780k, which actually fall under the upper 3% tier. So is this what the leechers claim as rich?

Note: I will run the numbers again to double check later.
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leechers are the worst for the development of the country. kept on using excuses like being fair and claiming others being selfish and greedy.

Our politicians are damn good in manipulating this group.


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