I think that will be ok as a start. In the past, I did give an example of the person who is a father, engineer and husband, that comes from someone as an example ... and it catches on ... which later I kinda regret.

These examples all have a subconscious distinct separateness of the Trinity, unfortunately. And yes, you can say that there is no physical illustration in the universe to illustrate the mystery of the Divine Trinity, but, one in the Bible came close.

Deuteronomy 8:7 speaks of the good land as "a land of waterbrooks, of springs and of fountains, flowing forth in valleys and in mountains." The fountain is the source, the spring is the issue of the source, and the waterbrook, or the river, is the flow. The source of the Jordan River is in Mount Hermon. In Israel, you can see the spring of water gushing out from the fountain to become a river. In its verbal form spring means to gush out or gush up.

Exodus 15 speaks of the children of Israel arriving at Elim on their journey in the wilderness. At Elim there were twelve springs of water and seventy palm trees (v. 27—ASV). The source of these springs may have been one fountain. The water in a fountain comes from the heavens. This water comes down to the earth and gets deeply into the earth. Eventually, it becomes a fountain under the earth, and this fountain springs up to become springs. The Father is the fountain, the Son is the springs, and the Spirit is the river of water of life. . There is a distinct manifestations of all three at the same time yet they are all one.

The example of H20 ... they can only exits at one form at the time. But the Father, the Son, and the Spirit—are coexists simultaneously.

The example of the different roles of the a man falls short of the reality of coinherence. The Father is in the Son and the Spirit. The Son in the Father and the Spirit. And the Spirit in the Father and the Son. (John 14:20).

Cheers!

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jan 26 2013, 11:07 AM

The Riches of the Triune God Overflowing in the Flesh to Become the Fullness of Christ as the Embodiment of the Triune God— John 1:14, 16

There are two terms in the Bible that are very difficult to understand. One of them is the riches of Christ, and the other is the fullness of Christ. The two words are different from one another, but there is a relation between the two. The riches produce the fullness, and the fullness comes out of the riches. When something is rich, it becomes full. The fullness is the expression of the riches. Without the riches, there can never be the fullness. When something becomes rich to the uttermost, there is the fullness. For example, here are two cups, both filled with water. The water in them may be very rich, but the cups are not full yet. If we continue to add water into them until they overflow, we will see the fullness.

All of what Christ is are His riches. When these riches come into us and overflow from us, they are the fullness. John 1:14 says, “And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us…full of grace and reality.’’ Not only are the grace and reality rich; they are full. Most people think that to be full of something is the same as to be rich in that thing. Actually, there is a distinction between being rich and being full. Fullness means more than riches. For example, the cup on my right hand is rich, but we do not see its riches. The cup on my left hand, however, the overflowing cup, has the fullness, and everyone can see it.

When God became flesh, the grace that He brought was not only rich, but it was full. It was not only rich within, but it was full to overflowing. Hence, John 1:16 says, “For of His fullness we have all received.’’ Hence, when you pray, you should not say, “Lord, of Your rich grace we have received.’’ Rather, you should say, “Lord, of Your fullness in grace we have received.’’ Riches are what is hidden within, and fullness is what is flowed out. Riches are abundant, but not abundant enough. Fullness is abundance upon abundance, to the extent that there is an overflow.

What then are riches? Riches are simply what the Lord Jesus is. All that the Lord Jesus is are His riches. He is God. He is also man. He is light and love. He is holiness and righteousness. He is forbearance and patience. He is everything. That is why He is called the “I Am.’’ He is everything positive. He is the noble and the lowly. He is the length and the breadth. Hence, He is rich in what He is. What then is fullness? When the riches of the Lord are expressed, that is, when all that the Lord is overflows from us, the riches become the fullness.

The Riches of God Overflowing in Christ to Become the Fullness of Christ as God’s Expression; the Believers Having Received of this Fullness of Christ the Rich Grace—John 1:16

God’s riches are riches when they are in Christ; they become the fullness when they come to us. He is the Christ, and we are the church. For Christ it is the riches; for us it is the fullness. For example, the water in these two cups is identical; but in one cup, it is the riches, and in the other cup, when the water flows out, it is the fullness. It is Christ who is rich, and it is the church that is full. These two are actually one. Riches are hidden within, and fullness is expressed without. What is hidden within is Christ. What is expressed without is the church. Hence, the church is the expression of Christ. The expression of Christ is the fullness of Christ. His fullness issues forth from His riches. When it is hidden in Him, it is the riches. When it is expressed in us, it is the fullness. When we speak of riches, we refer to Christ. When we speak of fullness, we refer to the church. For the riches to become the fullness means for Christ to become the church. Riches and fullness, therefore, refer to Christ and the church.

The New Testament also shows us that the source of these riches is God. One day, this God became flesh and came among men. He is God, yet He expressed all His riches item by item in the human flesh. What was expressed was His fullness. In God they are the riches. In Christ when they are expressed, they are the fullness. The Jews received grace from God. We the Christians today receive grace from Christ. The Jews worshipped God for His riches. We the Christians today worship in Christ in order to gain His fullness.

God is the Word. When this God became flesh, He was full of grace and reality. It was not that He was rich in these things, but that He was full of these things. In God they are the riches. When they reach Christ, they become the fullness. Hence, it is not a matter that we receive of His riches. Rather, we receive of His fullness. Today, we do not receive grace directly from God. Rather, we receive God’s grace in Christ. Furthermore, the grace that we talk about is not God’s direct grace, but His grace in Christ. Hence, this grace is not merely rich; it is also full. It is not merely grace, but grace upon grace.

Christ is in the riches of God. When the riches of God become the fullness, that is the church. Hence, the church is not something of God’s riches. The church is something of Christ’s fullness. In God’s riches there is no church yet. It is only when we come to the fullness of Christ that we have the church. This shows us that the riches are Christ, and the fullness is the church.

I guess it is a known fact ... Ya

The present governments in the whole will end at Christ's coming

Let's hasten His coming by building up the church

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jan 30 2013, 05:08 PM

In the New Testament, there are some mysterious points that are easily missed by readers of the Bible. They are points that are difficult to grasp. For example, in the book of Ephesians Paul revealed the thought concerning the fullness of Christ as the Body of Christ, which is the church of Christ. When he spoke of the church, he said that it is the Body of Christ (Eph. 1:23). This is a very profound term. In chapter four of Ephesians, Paul used another profound word, “the fullness of Christ’’ (v. 13). He said that the fullness of Christ is the expression of Christ. This expression is fully a matter of the eternal and divine life of God.

In John 10:10 the Lord Jesus said that He came that the sheep may have life and have it more abundantly. Most Christians know that life is for salvation. Christ is our life for the purpose that we would be saved. Of course, there is nothing wrong in this realization. However, this is not enough. When Christ enters into us, not only is He life to us to save us, but He is also making us the church through this saving life.

The church is the Body of Christ. It is not an organization, but an organism. It is not a matter of outward things, but a matter of an inward life. The church can be compared to the human body. Outwardly speaking, the human body is composed of all the different organs and members. It may look like an organization. Actually, every part of the human body is a matter of life. Hence, the church is not an organization, but an organism. Look at my ten fingers. Not only is every finger joined to me; each one has an organic relationship with me. All of them have a circulation and a fellowship with the blood of the whole body. The whole body is a living organism that is full of the activities of life. The wooden stand before me is different. It is composed of pieces of wood as an organization; there is no life in them.

THE ORGANIC BODY OF CHRIST NEEDING THE GROWTH

The church is the Body of Christ. As the human body needs to grow, in the same way the Body of Christ needs to grow. In Ephesians 4, the word “growth,’’ “grown,” or “to grow’’ is used at least three times. First, Paul says, “Until we all arrive…at a full-grown man’’ (4:13). When a man is first born, his stature is very small. Day by day, he needs to grow, until he becomes a full-grown man. Since the church is the Body of Christ, it needs to grow day by day also. Following this, Paul says, “We may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, Christ’’ (4:15). After a Christian is saved, he is a person in Christ. But there are still many things not of Christ in him. For this reason, he has to give the Lord the ground in all things so that the Lord may grow in him.

Finally, we have “the growth of the Body’’ (4:16). The church is the Body of Christ. This body grows; it does not expand. Often we say that the church has expanded. Actually, this term is not that scriptural. The church does not expand; it should only grow. Something that has no life can be said to expand, but something with life should grow. When we speak of a nation, we can say that it expands. This is because a nation is an organization; it is not an organism. But when we speak of the church, we should speak of growth, because the church is the Body of Christ. It is organic, and not organizational.

Because the church needs the growth, and because we all have to arrive at a full-grown man, being full of the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, we need to know how the Body of Christ grows.

Welcome!

Is Ketepatan = Kebenaran?

"I rejoiced greatly that I have found some of your children walking in truth ...."?

TRUE PRAYER BEING A MINGLING OF GOD AND MAN IN THE SPIRIT

True prayer involves two parties—God and man. Such prayers are the issue of the Spirit of God being mingled with man’s spirit and of man’s spirit being mingled with the Spirit of God. When a man exercises his spirit to pray, he is praying with his spirit in God’s Spirit, or we can say that God’s Spirit is praying in his spirit. In such prayers it is difficult to differentiate whether man’s spirit is praying or God’s Spirit is praying, because man’s spirit and God’s Spirit are fully joined together. The human spirit and the divine Spirit are intimately joined during prayer. As we pray, God and man are joined together in the most thorough and perfect way. However, there are many prayers in which God and man are not joined together. These are prayers in which man is not praying in his spirit but rather praying by himself with his mind. These prayers are outside of God; they are merely human prayers in which God is not mingled with man. Prayer is absolutely a matter of God being mingled with man. Our prayers must be in the Spirit.

TRUE PRAYER BEING MAN’S RESPONSE TO GOD’S INITIATION

Since prayer is an expression of the union of God and man, no true prayer can be uttered without God’s initiation. If a prayer is not initiated by God, it is not genuine prayer. All those who truly know the meaning of prayer know that prayer is not merely a matter of God being mingled with man but a matter of God initiating something within man. Hence, when we pray, we must learn to be calm and not follow our thoughts. Instead, we should turn from our mind to our spirit and follow the sense within our spirit. In genuine prayer a person has a certain sense in his spirit even before he prays. This sense in the spirit is initiated by God’s Spirit within our spirit. When the Spirit of God mingles with our spirit, He initiates or suggests something in our spirit, which is not necessarily in the form of intelligible words. Many times it is merely a sense or a feeling in our spirit.

Therefore, when we pray, we must not only turn to our spirit, but we must also wait on God’s initiation. We should be calm and turn to our spirit. At the same time we should not be too quick to utter something. Rather, we should wait for God’s initiation and the sense in our spirit. Please remember that everyone who opens his mouth quickly speaks invariably from himself and from his own initiation. Whenever we pray, we must learn to turn to our spirit. Then we must learn to wait for God’s initiation. We should be calm and touch the sense in our spirit in order to pray according to that sense.

Hmm? I think it is quite clear. There is a need of a physical hall or place for the meeting of the church. But the very definition of church is never a physical building.

The church is the ekklesia, a Greek word referring to the church as the called-out assembly in its most basic definition.

Ephesians speaks particularly of the church and unveils the church in its seven aspects as (1) the Body of Christ, the fullness, the expression, of the One who fills all in all (v. 23; 4:13); (2) the new man (2:15), a corporate man, having not only the life of Christ but also His person; (3) the kingdom of God (2:19), with the saints as citizens possessing its rights and bearing its responsibilities; (4) the household of God (2:19), a family full of life and enjoyment; (5) the dwelling place of God, in which He may live (2:21-22) — universally, a holy temple in the Lord, and locally, the dwelling place of God in our spirit; (6) the bride, the wife, of Christ (5:24-25) for Christ's rest and satisfaction; and (7) the warrior (6:11-12), a corporate fighter, who deals with and defeats God's enemy to accomplish God's eternal purpose.

“You yourselves also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house into a holy priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ” (1 Pet. 2:5).

Romans 16:5 “And greet the church, which is in their house.” “Their” refers to Prisca and Aquila mentioned in verse 3. Here the fact is simple. The church in Rome, like hundreds and thousands of other local churches, first started in the house of a brother. We can't greet a building

1 Cor 1:2 says, “To the church of God which is in Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints.” According to grammar, “to the church of God” is in apposition to “to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus.” This indicates that “to the church of God” equals “to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus.” This strongly indicates that the church is a composition of the saints, and the saints are the constituents of the church. The two should not be considered separate entities. Individually, we are the saints; corporately, we are the church. Thus, the church is not only constituted of God, but is also composed of the saints.

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ was faithful as a Son over His house, whose house we are if indeed we hold fast the boldness and the boast of hope firm to the end.

Ephesians 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for the judgment to begin from the house of God; and if first from us, what will be the end of those who disobey the gospel of God?


This post has been edited by pehkay: Feb 1 2013, 05:11 PM

I will question that Greek rendering ... as "church through out". Since the word "KATH' OLES' didn’t modify the word church but they indicate unto where the peace was being enjoyed.

Anyway, since at that time (Acts 9:31) the church had spread only to the provinces of Judea, Galilee, and Samaria, and since the word whole covers all the places where the church existed, church in singular is used here in the universal sense, although there must have been churches in the local sense in a number of the cities of these three provinces.

Cheers!

THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS FOLLOWING THE SENSE THAT GOD HAS INITIATED IN THE SPIRIT

In genuine prayer the initiation and the entire process must be from God’s urging. An electrical sound system is driven by electricity to transmit sounds. Not only are microphones and loud speakers driven by electricity, but the entire process, including the amplification and transmission, is driven by electricity. In the same principle, God should be the initiator of our prayer, and the entire process of our prayer should be an experience in which God prays with us and mingles Himself in our prayers.

Since the presence of God and our mingling with Him are absolutely related to the sense in our spirit, we should learn to allow our inner sense to be the initiating and motivating element within us when we pray.

It is wonderful that we are often able to comprehend the feeling in our spirit when we pray. At times a feeling may lead us to confess our failures and shortcomings or to pray for the church. Another feeling may lead us to pray for a brother in difficulty or to pray for the message meeting on the Lord’s Day. We may even have a feeling to praise Him, thank Him, or exult Him. Sometimes we may have a feeling not to pray for anything, or even to praise or thank Him, but simply to bow down before Him and worship Him. There is no need for words or sounds. We simply prostrate before God in silence and worship Him. The more we worship, the fresher our spirit becomes, and the more we are satisfied. As we worship, we feel that we are touching God in our spirit. This is a prayer of worship that is generated by the feeling of the Holy Spirit within us.

As soon as we understand the meaning of these feelings from God, we should follow them in prayer. We should never restrict ourselves to the topic that we decided on prior to our prayer. If we restrict ourselves in this way, we will be in our mind, and we will be the initiator and motivator of our prayer. Our spirit is not the only requirement for proper and genuine prayer. Prayer must be a joint prayer in which God is mingled with our spirit. In this prayer God and man mingle together, and God is the Initiator and Motivator. Spiritual prayer is never directed by our mind, memory, or thoughts. It is directed by the sense in our spirit, and this sense comes from God’s initiation.

Hence, in genuine prayer we pray together with God; we pray by accompanying Him. We pray according to the feeling that God gives us. This enables God to pray with us in our prayer. We are praying, and He is also praying. He and we pray together. He is within us; He is praying one with us. This is indeed an amazing matter.

Whether or not such prayers are answered is secondary. The primary matter is that we pray by following the sense in our spirit; we allow God to pass through us and to mingle Himself with us. In this way we enjoy God and absorb Him. Even though we may offer supplication for the church, for a brother in dire need, or even for ourselves, our main sensation will be that we have absorbed God and have been filled with Him.

Of course, there are times when we misunderstand the feelings from God. For example, when the inward feeling urges us to pray, we may think that we should pray for our children. But as we begin to pray for our children, the inner sense wanes, and we feel that something is not right within. When a brother likes what he is hearing, his countenance is bright, and he is happy, but if something is said that he does not like, the expression on his face will change. If there is a change in our conversation, his countenance may become bright once again. We have all experienced this. This also happens in our fellowship with the Lord. Sometimes we may sense God’s presence, as if He is smiling within us. If our prayer is against the inward sense, we feel cold and withdrawn within. When this happens, we should change the direction of our prayer. We should never think that we must finish our own prayers before responding to the sense from God. If God is not praying with us, and our prayer is not touching God, we should stop praying as soon as the sense within begins to wane, in order to check the inner sense. If the sense is leading us to pray for the church, we should immediately pray for the church. If we do so, the inner sense will become bright, and we will touch God’s presence again. This is the way to continue in prayer. If we follow the inner sense, God’s Spirit will follow our prayer, and we will receive more feelings. Our responsibility is simply to pray according to these feelings. Verbalize the feelings one by one. This is genuine prayer that breathes in God. Through such prayer, we are in God, we breathe Him in, and God is in us. In such prayers we obtain God even before our prayers are answered. This is what it means to enjoy God and absorb Him through prayer.

Technically, we are those in the new creation. We lived not according to custom of the world. Christ is our new year

Well, your first questions kinda invalid (If u r Chinese that celebrating this event) ... I don't

Haha ... but yeah, I will join the Lord's Day meeting on Sunday morning as usual

THINGS TO CONSIDER CONCERNING THE SENSE OF THE SPIRIT

Those who are experienced in prayer know that there are many things to consider related to the sense of the spirit. If the sense in our spirit is for us to pray rapidly, we should pray accordingly; otherwise, we may lose the Spirit. Sometimes the sense in our spirit may be to pray slowly, requiring us to utter the words one by one; otherwise, we may lose the Lord’s presence. At other times the sense in our spirit may be to stop praying. If we do not stop, we will be cut off from the sense in our spirit. There are also times when the inner feeling does not allow us to stop, even if we have other matters to take care of. We should always follow the inner feeling when we pray, not praying according to ourselves.

There are times when the inner feeling may lead us to weep, even if we are not accustomed to crying. If we try to hold back the tears, we will lose the Spirit, but if we weep or cry, the Spirit will be released. We should follow the leading in our spirit regardless of our environment.

At other times we may not be led to cry, and if we do, we will lose the leading of the Spirit. Sisters, however, seem to be more prone to cry. Some sisters cry whenever they pray. These tears may actually frustrate the Spirit and cause them to lose the sense of the Spirit.

These are not exaggerations. One basic lesson in prayer is that we must always follow the initiation of the Spirit. If we follow Him, He will follow us. This experience is altogether in the realm of our spirit. Whenever we pray, we must stop and turn to our spirit. Next, we must not initiate prayer from ourselves. Rather, we must allow God to deposit His feelings within us and pray according to these feelings. Whether the feeling is to pray rapidly or slowly, to cry or to laugh, we should follow the feeling absolutely. All experienced believers know that we absorb God in such prayers, and we are brought into God; God fills our being, and we are saturated with Him. This is genuine prayer to which the Lord hearkens.

Regrettably, we are not always able to follow the leading in our spirit. Our memory, will, thoughts, and opinions form the biggest inward barriers. For example, we may decide to pray for certain matters or persons regardless of the feeling in our spirit. When we set ourselves to pray, we do not care for the feeling in our spirit. We care instead about what we have decided and what we can remember. There is a problem if we are unwilling to surrender our mind, memory, and decisions to the Lord. In our prayer we must surrender ourselves to the Lord and cooperate with Him. We must let Him lead us in our prayers; we should not take the initiative. We must be active only in following the Lord, in being submissive to Him, and in not taking the initiative. Even if the greatest enterprise in the world is about to fall upon us, we should not pray for it without the leading of the inward feeling. We should only follow the feeling in our spirit.

When we enjoy God through reading the Word, we need to drop our views and concepts in order to receive the central matters in God’s Word. This principle also applies to prayer. When we pray, we need to drop our decisions and thoughts in order to pray according the sense in our spirit. Regrettably, since most of our prayers are initiated by us, they are apart from the Spirit. If the Lord is not one with us in our prayers, we will not touch and absorb God in our prayers.

When we pray, we must learn to turn to our spirit. We must learn to set aside our feelings, opinions, ideas, memory, and decisions and pray solely according to the feeling in our spirit. Only then will God follow us in our prayer. As we follow the sense in our spirit, God will follow our prayer. We may utter a sentence, and the Lord will give us more feelings, which will lead us to utter another sentence. This sentence will lead to more feelings. This kind of prayer is breathing prayer, prayer that reaches God. The more we pray, the more we touch God’s presence and the more we absorb God Himself. The more we pray, the more we are filled with God. This is to enjoy God. The matters in our petitions are secondary. The important thing is that we have reached God, gained God, and absorbed God. This should be our experience every time we pray.

In order to have prayers that enjoy God, we must reject everything that disrupts the feeling in our spirit. In particular we should not be occupied with many thoughts. Sometimes we should even avoid considering many Bible passages. Instead, we should use the Word to calm our thoughts. However, under normal circumstances, we should exercise to be calm without relying on the Bible. Even praying with the words of the Bible can be a frustration if it is not according to the sense in our spirit. We may lose God’s presence.

We all need to see that when we turn to our spirit, are calm, and pray according to the feeling in our spirit, God will entrust many important matters to us for supplication. All we need to do is to follow the feeling in our spirit and pray the prayers that He initiates one by one. We will fulfill a great ministry of supplication in this way. Not only do we need to touch God in the morning when we eat, drink, and enjoy Him through reading and prayer; we need to touch God, pass through God, and allow Him to pass through us in our ministry-fulfilling prayers, our supplicating prayers. In our prayers, God and us, we and God, should be mingled together. Whenever we pray, our prayers should be inward prayers that come from touching God. All normal prayers are prayers according to the sense of the spirit. Such prayers come from our enjoyment of God and are actually an enjoyment of God. The more we pray this way, the more we will absorb God and enjoy Him.

. Gnostic philosophy refers the rudimentary teachings of both Jews and Gentiles, consisting of ritualistic observances in such things as meats, drinks, washings, and asceticism (Col. 2:8, 16, 20-22; Titus 1:14-15). Gnosticism is a composition of Greek and Oriental philosophy and Jewish religion. It deals with conviction that material things are inherently evil.

New Age? I think you are confused ... new age spirituality is pretty esoteric and nothing to do with even the concept of God. I think this is more a lack in Christians today toward the inner life writings (not Pentecostal).

To experience Christ is a matter in our human spirit (Rom. 1:9; 1 Cor. 14:14; 16:18; 2 Cor. 2:13). But to enjoy Christ is a matter when the sense of the Spirit / intuition though the abiding in Christ permeate our human emotion, that is why, there is enjoyment. When we pray to experience various attributes or virtues of Christ, we enjoy the peace, life, joy, strength etc in our circumstances.

There is a deep revelation in the Bible that God wants to be man's life and enjoyment. God is our life. Immediately after creating man in Genesis, God placed man in front of the tree of life (2:8-9). At the end of Revelation the tree of life is still present (22:2). The tree of life signifies God Himself. God is the source of life. When God says that He wants man to come to the tree of life, He means that He wants man to touch Him. God wants to enter into man to be his life.

The Bible uses food and drink to speak of the relationship between God and man. Man needs food and drink in order to exist. He needs to eat, and he needs to drink. Every day we depend on these two things. If we do not eat or drink, we will die. The Bible shows that God is our food, and He is our living water. He comes to us to be our bread.

In the Old Testament we see these types. When the children of Israel began their journey through the wilderness, they had no food or drink. Then God performed a miracle and supplied them with food and drink. Their food did not grow out of the ground but came down from heaven. Their drink did not come from wells, which they dug, but from a smitten rock. Those in the Old Testament did not know the significance of this. One day, however, the Lord Jesus came. He was God come in the flesh, God among men. His goal was to be received by man and to become man’s enjoyment. He said that the manna in the Old Testament was only a type and that He was the bread that comes down from heaven (6:48-51). He is the true manna. He can satisfy man’s hunger and fill man from within. The Lord also said that He would be lifted up and that His body would be broken and out of it would flow living water. The living water is the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit enters man, He satisfies man’s thirst and flows out of man as a river of living water to quench the thirst of others (7:37-38). These verses show that as God, Christ becomes man’s enjoyment. He wants to enter into us to be our food and our living water. He wants us to eat Him and drink Him every day.

The Bible says that God enters into us to be our light of life (8:12). The Bible also says that God is our strength (Psa. 18:1). In order for a man to live, he also needs love, joy, and comfort. The Bible clearly says that God is love (1 John 4:8), for our enjoyment by our abiding in Him (1 John 2:5, 27-28; 3:6, 24).

How can we substantiate God's riches except through prayer? (Eph. 6:18)

1 Corinthians 6:17 says, “He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit.” We also need to see the move of the Spirit in our heart. Galatians 4:6 says, “And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father!” Romans 5:5 says that “the love of God has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.” These verses tell us that the Spirit is moving in our hearts. Ephesians 3:17 says that Christ is making His home in our hearts, and 2 Corinthians 4:6 says that God is the One who shines in our hearts. John 14:20 is the classic verse showing the Triune God wants to be ONE with us.

Romans 8:23 says, “And not only so, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan in ourselves, eagerly awaiting sonship, the redemption of our body.” The thought in this verse is also that the Holy Spirit has been given to us for our enjoyment. Romans 5:5 shows that our enjoyment of the Spirit is a matter of love in the heart.

In 1 Corinthians 2:16 Paul said, “We have the mind of Christ.” Christ must saturate our mind from our spirit, making our mind one with His. We must give Him more and more ground to spread out of our spirit into our mind. That means our mind will be saturated with His mind, and we will have His mind. In the same principle, our emotion will be saturated with His emotion. In other words, our love will be saturated and permeated with His love. Thus, we will have His love in our love. Also, our will must be saturated with His will. Eventually, we can say that we have His heart as our heart because He has made His home in our heart. Our mind, emotion, and will must be thoroughly saturated, renewed, and transformed with Christ (2 Cor. 3:18). Then we will have the heart of Christ as our heart. This is the context that we need to put aside our opinions and ability and let the Lord's desire be our desire.

Isaiah 45:11 Thus says Jehovah, The Holy One of Israel and the One who formed him, Ask Me about the things to come concerning My sons, And concerning the work of My hands, command Me [God].

This is a prayer in ascension when one is fully one with God and God fully one with man ....


.... blah .... oh well ....

This post has been edited by pehkay: Feb 5 2013, 04:00 PM

This is the problem of funny things we come in contact with :/ . Things like ghost passing through things/person ... spooky veils

Romans 11:36 says, “Because out from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.” Some versions translate out from Him as “of Him,” and others translate it “from Him.” The meaning in the original language is “out from Him.” Through Him may be translated as “passing through Him.” This is similar to someone needing to pass through a bridge in order to cross from one side of a river to the other side. All things may be translated as “all,” including persons, things, and affairs. All persons, events, and things are out from Him, pass through Him, and eventually are unto Him.

Out = Source = All Work Being of God, Not of Man

Through = God Needing Man in His Work and Man Needing God in God’s Work ... what a mingling!

To = The goal, glory, eventually, what we or God gain is Himself.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Feb 5 2013, 06:01 PM

No lar. I was attempting to make a tongue in cheek. I am saying because we know/read all these things ... That become a veil to stop us from seeing a revelation or truth of God's working through us. Like we can touch God spiritually, not meant physically or some strange experience.

Hahah ... don't focus on these things .... we need more gold, silver and precious stones within us .... that is more crucial

INTERCESSION

Genuine prayers are prayers in which man is mingled with God in spirit. Hence, all genuine prayers are initiated by God. All prayers that are mingled with God are surely initiated by Him. In such prayers, God prays in man, and man prays in God. These prayers involve two levels.

In order to pray in this way, a person must be calm and turn to his spirit. He must learn to drop his own concepts and enter into God. When a person drops his concepts and enters into God, it is easy for him to sympathize with God’s heart, to be concerned for God’s interest, and to live in complete conformity to God’s desires. When this is a person’s condition, the Lord will surely be pleased to open His heart to him, and it will be easy for him to know the Lord’s will. He does not need to exert much effort to touch the Lord’s desire. He merely needs to contact the Lord, and he will know what is of concern to the Lord today.

This is the source of all genuine prayers. When the Lord’s mind becomes ours, we know what He wants, and we begin to care for His desires. Once we care for the Lord’s desires, we will intercede for them. Knowing God’s desire forces us to bear the work of intercession before Him.

Let us consider Abraham’s intercession for Lot. Abraham learned to live before God. He was one who knew God’s desire. When God visited Abraham, He said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?” (Gen. 18:17). Since God and Abraham were intimate friends, God opened His heart to him, and He told Abraham that He had come down to look at the condition of Sodom and to judge it. When Abraham heard this, he knew that God’s heart was focused on Lot, who was in Sodom. Although God did not mention Lot by name, the fact that He spoke of the place where Lot was gave Abraham a hint of God’s heart. Abraham knew that God cared for Lot, who was living in the city of Sodom.

As soon as Abraham understood God’s heart, he knew that God needed someone to be one with Him to pray for Lot. Abraham knew that if there was no one on earth to communicate with the God in heaven, God would have no way to communicate His heavenly will to earth. God needed a man on earth who was in touch with Him and in harmony with Him. There was a need for harmony between heaven and earth. In order for God to work on earth, He had to find someone who would echo His heart, who would be concerned for what was on His heart. Abraham was God’s friend; he not only sympathized with God but also was one with Him. Hence, God could confide in Abraham what He was about to do on earth.

As soon as Abraham knew God’s heart, he tarried before God and began his work of intercession. When we read Genesis 18:22-33, we see that every word of Abraham touched God. Abraham reminded God that He is the Judge of all the earth, who needed to act justly, and asked if He could destroy the righteous with the wicked. Abraham did not mention Lot by name, but Lot was one of the righteous ones. Strictly speaking, his prayer was not for Sodom but for Lot who lived in Sodom, in the same way that God’s heart was not on Sodom but on saving Lot who dwelled in Sodom.

When we enjoy God in prayer, we also enter into intercession. When we drop our thoughts and care for God’s inward parts, it is easy for us to know His heart. Once we know His heart, we must call on Him and intercede. In Ephesians 6:18-19 Paul says that we should petition concerning all the saints and, in particular, to petition for him the apostle. Few people can petition concerning all the saints. A person who can petition for God’s church and His servants is one who drops his concepts and ideas, turns to his spirit, and cares for God’s heart. Such a person knows God’s will and can pray for God’s desire. God cares for His church, His saints, and His servants. It is easy for believers who live in their spirit, who have dropped their concepts, and who have God’s mind to touch God’s heart concerning the church, to understand His care for His children and His expectation of His servants. Such persons can intercede and will intercede because God’s Spirit is moving in their spirit and stirring them up to pray for God’s concerns. God is concerned about the church, and they pray for the church. God is concerned about the saints, and they pray for the saints. God cares for His servants, and they pray for God’s servants.

Those who intercede for the church, the saints, and God’s workers can do so because they live in their spirit and touch God. It is difficult for a person who does not live in his spirit and who only hears reports and exhortations to approach God or intercede for others. If he tries to intercede, it will be apart from God. He will become drier and emptier as he prays, and he will not have the assurance that his prayers will be answered. Such intercession is a labor apart from God. It can be compared to Peter’s labor when he went fishing in John 21. His nets were empty even though he labored all night. His labor was in vain.

This is not proper intercession. If we learn to enter into God by dropping our concepts, turning to our spirit, and caring for His desire, we will touch His heart and know His interests. Spontaneously we will be motivated by God to intercede. Such intercession is solid and touches God. Moreover, we are inwardly fed and established in our faith, and we have the assurance that God has heard our prayer. We have the faith that God will bless the church, the saints, and the workers according to our prayers. These prayers are initiated by God. This is what the Lord meant when He said that if we abide in Him and His word abides in us, whatever we ask will be done for us. Such asking does not originate from us. When we enter the Lord’s presence, live in Him, abide in Him, and touch His heart, we have His desire. Then our asking is fulfilled because it comes out of His desire.

BEHOLDING

Most people understand beholding the Lord to mean looking up at a God who sits far above in the heavens and who sends His light down to men. They consider beholding God to be looking up to such a light. According to our spiritual experience, however, this is not the meaning of beholding God. Beholding God is to gaze and look at God.

When I meet with a friend, we typically look each other in the eye and measure each other before we say anything. Sometimes after speaking, we look at each other again before we depart. Our looking at each other conveys a kind of warmth and intimacy. It is impossible for two persons to speak to each other without looking at each other. In the same way, beholding God means to gaze on Him when we pray. After we pray a few sentences, we should turn to gaze on Him again. If we do not turn to God or do not fix our gaze on Him but instead hastily utter a few words, it will be difficult for us to enjoy God. When we pray, we must be calm, turn to our spirit, and gaze on Him. Then according to the feeling within, we can speak to Him under His gaze. We should continually behold Him. Such beholding is very precious.

Of course, beholding transpires only in our spirit. We do not behold with our physical eyes. Our eyes are closed when we pray; we do not see anything. In our spirit, however, we are before God and look at Him face to face. We gaze on God by exercising our spirit.

WAITING

Many people think that they need to wait on God when He does not answer their prayers. Generally speaking, this can be considered as waiting on the Lord. This is an outward waiting. However, we are speaking of the waiting that transpires in our spirit. Suppose we are calm and turn to our spirit, but we do not sense that we have the presence of God. As a spiritual fact God never leaves us, but in our experience we may sense that He is far away or that He is near us. At times we may feel that He is near, but He has not initiated anything. When this happens, we should not say anything quickly. Rather, we should spend some time to wait in His presence.

God should always take the full initiative in our prayer, and we should simply follow. We should pray according to the feelings He gives us. In the same principle, sometimes He purposely delays His coming so that we learn to wait on Him. We cannot care merely for our convenience. We must care for His convenience and wait. We should never be rash or impatient. For this reason the psalms say that we should wait on the Lord.

This kind of waiting is not an easy matter. We would not consider two hours to be too long to converse with a close friend, but we would consider two hours to be a long time to wait. Waiting requires patience. When we pray, there is also the need to wait on God. Sometimes God likes to test us in our prayer. If He does not seem to be near us after we turn to our spirit, and there are no feelings within, we should not initiate anything. If there is no feeling within, there can be no prayer. We should learn to wait. When He moves, we should follow, and when He does not move, we should wait on Him.

If we desire to enjoy God in prayer, we must learn these lessons. It is difficult for rough and rash people to pray. In the Old Testament the priest’s garment had bells at the hem. The sound of the bells was to warn the high priest not to be careless (Exo. 28:34-35). Those who come before God must not be careless. The Lord prefers us to listen to Him. Hence, He rebuked Martha for being so anxious and troubled about many things (Luke 10:41). I do not believe Martha could wear the priestly garment without there being the sounds of bells everywhere. Many people are like Martha. Those with quick and rash temperaments cannot pray. We have to learn to wait patiently on the Lord.

MUSING

Good prayer often does not need many words. At times we do not need to say anything when we pray. We can simply muse on God. He cares for our musing. Psalm 104:34 says, “May my musing be sweet to Him.” Prayers in which we continually speak to God may not be good prayers. In good prayer we behold God and muse upon Him.

We may think that musing is something of our mind, but it is actually connected to our spirit. We actively muse upon the attributes of our God in our spirit. He is fine, tender, careful, dignified, glorious, and great. We muse upon His dealings with us and His promises to us. As we muse, our inner being is filled with much feeling. Our musings are prayers, and at the same time they are not prayers. They are like words, yet they are not like words. They are thoughts that arise from our inner being and are a delight to God.

In summary, we should turn to our spirit to touch God in prayer. These prayers do not require many words. Sometimes it is best to spend some time to look at God or remain silent in His presence. We should learn to pray in this way. We should never pray with our own burdens; rather, we should set aside our burdens. We should say, “Lord, I give all my burdens to You and come to You with an unloaded spirit.” We should be calm, turn to our spirit, and behold Him. We should then pray according to the inward sense. As we pray, we should continue to behold Him. We should also wait and muse on Him. If we do this, we will touch and absorb God richly through prayer