TS, is this a recon Toyota Wish? How many airbags are there in this car? Did any airbags deployed during the accident?

thats the issue here..if the car compromise the safety of the passenger, wouldnt this considered the car is not road-worthiness anymore?
agree with one of forummer opinion here, this should be viewed as statutory loss, not economically loss.
But the reality is, i will be given unfavorable options and i am not in the position to bargain.
Just need to accept the fact that the lucky was not on my side this time, i was at the wrong place and wrong time..that the price i paid for despite other's fault..still glad due to the fact that im not the one that caused the accident, and this accident doesnt caused to any serious injury..thank God!

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Added on November 28, 2012, 3:37 pmhi, its 2008 version not 2009, so i presume only two airbags..
the car hit right at the left centre of my car, so i didnt notice the car coming from the left..the impact quite heavy looking at the collusion at the both door panel..
the airbag didnt deploy..but the other's car, yes...

This post has been edited by zack2381: Nov 28 2012, 03:37 PM

zack, what car hit you?

I do believe I'm in suitable condition to advise you on this matter.
I'm working in collision repair insurance claim workshop (franchise and non-franchise).

May I ask, what is the year of your car built? I don't think the car is not manufactured at year 2008 but registered at 2008.
For insurance claim, usually either serious structural damage or the car repair cost must exceed 65% of the sum insured value, else insurance company will most like to grant repair for this vehicle.
The jurisdiction also depend on which insurance company u insured the car with?
Certain insurance company very hard to total lost even the repair cost exceed 60%.


Nowadays for workshop, we do charge owner RM500 (towing + administration fee, storage fee [mind u, rental in KL is expensive] etc) if the vehicle being claimed total lost. Insurance company won't even pay us a single cent for the work we done to help owner to submit claim, etc. If you think its unfair for workshop to charge you so, then do the claim yourself.
Certain area, the charge due to different in towing fee, police documents fee (nowadays those sergeant is shark, if u dun give them RM50 to RM150, dun think about getting the police report and photo, usually we ask the owner to report and buy the report/photo him/herself).


Usually cars with structural damage, the workshop will only start the repair upon receive the approval letter.
Structural damage can be repaired, provided the correct technique and replacement part, it can done.
Malaysia may not have the proper repair manual to repair Toyota Wish but it can be obtained from Thatcham.Org
A proper workshop shall have the ability to repair the car back. To me, it isn't really that serious.
It shouldn't exceed in RM25k in repair cost, there are many used parts for Toyota Wish the market.

I had a Toyota Wish in my shop b4, something similar like yours but much more serious in damage. The repair cost is just below 35k.

Usually cars like this if being repaired back, owner will be required to apply for JPJ inspection for roadworthyness inspection to ensure proper repair has been done to the vehicle itself, mainly to ensure there isn't "kereta sambung" case that was famous and commonly practice back then in 1980s and 1990s.
The vehicle registration card will be stamped of "roof panel replaced, pillar replaced" and to do the inspection, the owner shall have to bear the cost for all the puspakom vouchers to perform the necessary repair.

I do really think your car is repairable but you have the rights to apply for total lost declaration.
Write in a letter to show your concern about losing confidence of driving this vehicle on the vehicle if it being repaired, etc.


p/s : I only read the first post of the thread, sorry for any words that I may typed wrongly due to not reading all the posts.

This post has been edited by allenultra: Nov 28 2012, 05:22 PM

thank you for sharing info..

the car built in early 2008, registered here in 2011. The workshop said the car already 5 years by now, hence replacement should be from used part, not new part, under BNM rules. (verification check: issit true the car already 5 years old for the insurance purpose?)

as for 65% mark, if the loss adjuster value the car lower and the workshop up the repair ost price, wouldnt it able to reach 65% mark?..pls note i had my other car repaired in workshop, not serious though, just change the front bonet and front lights and spray(nothing on the engine)- it costed the insurance co for RM7k already for used part (according to insurance claim).. for this kind of damages, i imagine the cost should escalate few times higher..

my insurance from etiqa, same also for the car that hit me, but singapore branch.. towing, police report are all done, im not the one being summoned.

yup, the workshop will only start doing the repair work once JPJ approval letter is obtained. In this case, the owner must do themselves, not the workshop (verification check: issit true?)

so the structure panel can be properly repaired without kes "sambung" case? Why i should be the one have to incur costs for JPJ or PUSPAKOM inspection? is it claimable to the insurance company? what happen if the car proceeded to repair and then thereafter PUSPAKOM reject it? what happen then?

[The vehicle registration card will be stamped of "roof panel replaced, pillar replaced"] - this will make the car is not saleable in the secondary market as peoples are car about safety risk too...i view this as a total loss due to this reason as well..

on the letter, to whom should i address the letter to? chances wise how?

Structural parts can be replaced if the workshop have the infrastructure to do it. Problem is when they don't do it properly i.e. just "ketuk & simen". In that case then you will be risking your life if you keep on driving the car.

Thats why its important the car to go thru PUSPAKOM inspection first. but i guess the PUSPAKOM inspection is owner's pocket money and not sure what happen if the car cannot passed PUSPAKOM. this question still left unanswered.

Toyota Wish Year 2008 Market Value

What workshop told you is correct. All for reconditioned vehicle, betterment effective date is calculated based on the 1st of January of the manufactured year.
Refer to the betterment letter attached, your car currently is under 15% betterment charge. Unless you willing to topup for the 15% difference, the workshop will use used/taiwan parts to refurnish and repair your vehicle.

Your car, currently at around RM105k. Based on 65% calculation, you shall know how much of the repair cost required to be certified as total lost.
Your car reach 65% of sum insured? To my experience, it will not. Not a single chance to reach 70k in repair cost approval letter.
There are retail price for adjuster/repairer to follow, Toyota Wish spare part isn't that expensive actually.
I'm not sure what car u used to have for accident claim collision repair, but if u talking about front impact collision sum up to RM7k isn't something special.
Bumper front, headlamp LH/RH, Grille Front, Front Panel Assembly, Radiator, A/C Condenser, Cooling Fan Cover, Cooling Fan Motor and LABOUR can be pretty expensive if you don't know.
I just had a Honda Accord front impact collision (latest model), Headlamp LH/RH, bumper front, fender LH, bumper beam, fog lamp LH + labour = RM8.6k
Radiator and A/C Condenser of the vehicle is intact and in good condition.

For the JPJ approval letter, its either owner apply himself or the workshop can appoint runner to do on behalf. (Runner incur cost, right?)

About the incur cost for JPJ/Puspakom inspection, unless insurance company willing to pay in the approval letter, else owner will have the bear the cost. Why? The workshop not gonna do it for free, it usually will cost few hundred ringgit if appoint a runner to do so. Puspakom will approve it, because JPJ has released such a letter than this vehicle has been repaired/replaced the roof panel, pillar, etc. That's the main intention of having such inspection, to ensure the car is properly repaired. If the car cannot pass, the workshop will be in deep trouble.

About the vehicle registration card stamp issue, its to prove that the car is properly repaired at those area after went through Puspakom inspection.
The car not sell-able, its more to economical reason but not the intention of JPJ/Puspakom inspection which focus into safety issue (proper repair).
This isn't a reason for total loss if you ask me.

The letter? Address to the insurance company.

Something that I need to share with you, it isn't compulsory for Etiqa insured vehicle to perform JPJ/Puspakom inspection for structural damage caused. You can choose not to perform the JPJ inspection, refer to your insurance company. Certain insurance companies like Tokio Marine, MSIG and AIG (used to known as Chartis) made their insured compulsory to perform the JPJ/Puspakom inspection upon any structural damage.

For instance if you choose not to do the JPJ/Puspakom inspection now, you can do it later. There isn't any expiry date (refer to Etiqa for this possibility).
Somehow if next time you want to sell off the vehicle and Puspakom hold you because u din perform any Puspakom inspection due to previous accident, you will need to do the inspection by then.

You, as the owner of the vehicle is the customer of insurance company. You have the rights on what to do with your vehicle, deal with your insurer - Etiqa.
We - body & paint shop (when involving insurance claim), your status are not our customers. Firstly, you are not the one who pay for the repair cost, insurance company does. We are entitle to perform whatever repair based on how they pay us. If the insurance company willing to include the JPJ/Puspakom inspection incur cost (We charge RM300 in Ipoh) into the approval letter, you yourself as the owner will not need to pay for that.

Hope my sharing clear your doubts.



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thanks for the valuable info..my comments in bold

Toyota Wish Year 2008 Market Value

Mine is 1.8 version, not 2.0.

What workshop told you is correct. All for reconditioned vehicle, betterment effective date is calculated based on the 1st of January of the manufactured year.
Refer to the betterment letter attached, your car currently is under 15% betterment charge. Unless you willing to topup for the 15% difference, the workshop will use used/taiwan parts to refurnish and repair your vehicle.

mine is currenlty is not yet 5 years old until next year January..the accident occur before it reaches 5 years. Do you agree?

Your car, currently at around RM105k. Based on 65% calculation, you shall know how much of the repair cost required to be certified as total lost.
Your car reach 65% of sum insured? To my experience, it will not. Not a single chance to reach 70k in repair cost approval letter.
There are retail price for adjuster/repairer to follow, Toyota Wish spare part isn't that expensive actually.
I'm not sure what car u used to have for accident claim collision repair, but if u talking about front impact collision sum up to RM7k isn't something special.
Bumper front, headlamp LH/RH, Grille Front, Front Panel Assembly, Radiator, A/C Condenser, Cooling Fan Cover, Cooling Fan Motor and LABOUR can be pretty expensive if you don't know.

Nothing to do with Radiator, A/C Condenser, Cooling Fan Cover or Motor whatsoever..


I just had a Honda Accord front impact collision (latest model), Headlamp LH/RH, bumper front, fender LH, bumper beam, fog lamp LH + labour = RM8.6k
Radiator and A/C Condenser of the vehicle is intact and in good condition.

I think mine is like yours..so mine is cheaper then..

For the JPJ approval letter, its either owner apply himself or the workshop can appoint runner to do on behalf. (Runner incur cost, right?)

How much it costed?

About the incur cost for JPJ/Puspakom inspection, unless insurance company willing to pay in the approval letter, else owner will have the bear the cost. Why? The workshop not gonna do it for free, it usually will cost few hundred ringgit if appoint a runner to do so. Puspakom will approve it, because JPJ has released such a letter than this vehicle has been repaired/replaced the roof panel, pillar, etc. That's the main intention of having such inspection, to ensure the car is properly repaired. If the car cannot pass, the workshop will be in deep trouble.

JPJ approved the layout repair, PUSPAKOM will check how its done..if the layout by JPJ is ok but the workshop didnot follow, how can it get pass PUSPAKOM then? In my case, the workshop told that the left A pillar and roof need to be replaced. The B pillar at the right got dent but not sure they replace it or not. According to them, JPJ rules doesnt allow 3 structural panel to be replaced. In my case, only 2, but let say my car get hit again, they wont approve further structural repair. This itself makes things scary in term of safety of the car..[verification check: issit true)

About the vehicle registration card stamp issue, its to prove that the car is properly repaired at those area after went through Puspakom inspection.
The car not sell-able, its more to economical reason but not the intention of JPJ/Puspakom inspection which focus into safety issue (proper repair).
This isn't a reason for total loss if you ask me.

If no buyer for my car due to its historical structural repair, its serious concern about the safety of the car, hence they wont take the risk of buying..am i as the driver shouldnt have the similar concern too? i should..

The letter? Address to the insurance company.

Noted

Something that I need to share with you, it isn't compulsory for Etiqa insured vehicle to perform JPJ/Puspakom inspection for structural damage caused. You can choose not to perform the JPJ inspection, refer to your insurance company. Certain insurance companies like Tokio Marine, MSIG and AIG (used to known as Chartis) made their insured compulsory to perform the JPJ/Puspakom inspection upon any structural damage.

Well, im not the one insist for the car to be repaired, but Etiqa could, as they dont want to pay full market value compensation. If the car structural integrity is compromised (as per PUSPAKOM report), what is my rights under this circumstances?

For instance if you choose not to do the JPJ/Puspakom inspection now, you can do it later. There isn't any expiry date (refer to Etiqa for this possibility).
Somehow if next time you want to sell off the vehicle and Puspakom hold you because u din perform any Puspakom inspection due to previous accident, you will need to do the inspection by then.

If i want to sell /trade in the car, this is cannot be avoided, anyway. my plan to go inspect right after the car finish repair.

You, as the owner of the vehicle is the customer of insurance company. You have the rights on what to do with your vehicle, deal with your insurer - Etiqa.

Seems like Loss Adjuster is the most powerful person..

We - body & paint shop (when involving insurance claim), your status are not our customers. Firstly, you are not the one who pay for the repair cost, insurance company does. We are entitle to perform whatever repair based on how they pay us. If the insurance company willing to include the JPJ/Puspakom inspection incur cost (We charge RM300 in Ipoh) into the approval letter, you yourself as the owner will not need to pay for that.

Hope my sharing clear your doubts.

dear TS,

if there is so many things you are worried..i guess you will insomia also if the car is repaired

so just discuss it for TOTAL LOST, do not need to repair at all

if you are going to repair the car, please do inspection at puspakom directly.with the approved jpj letter

lets say u din inspect now, and after certain years u wanna sell the car n the buyer sent puspakom and it failed ,and u din updated the car status(body panel changed but din inspected).

puspakom test failed and stamped (body panel disyaki diganggu)....more headache then..blacklisted right away


we as repairer is middle person/party between car insurer and insurance company...we do whatever insurer approved, and insurance approved based on what loss adjuster recommended.

so talk to both loss adjuster and insurance what you want to do with the car

allenultra,

im charging rm800-1500 for totalled lost vehicles normally.

and yet, puspakom test fee, jpj application fee etc we are still doing it free...as most owners do not want to pay, we still thinking a solution. since the association at my place is not doing the great job i seem.

This post has been edited by huakenny: Nov 28 2012, 07:55 PM

thanks huakenny,

seriously my main worry is about the safety of the car..u as the expert in repair works, what do you think? Should or shouldnt i worry about this thing?put yourself into your shoe..there many forummers ad frens here already warned me about the safety issue if get hit into 2nd accident, so im not sure whether its fair for me to hv such feeling or im too much worrying for something isnt serious at all...its about the safety of myself and my family members i'm care the most. not to mention as i dont want to cause risk to other road users too..btw, the actual car condition is worse than what u see in the picture.
but i will accept the reality if the car proceed to repair..well, i dont think the loss adjuster will buy the story about i'll get insomnia if the car get repaired, woudnt they? hehe..

i seen alot accident cases, and there all more serious than urs.

urs is like 'kacang putih' case only...close eyes also can repair actually

at my point of view (if its my car), i just repair n drive

My bad, saw it wrongly. You shall be entitle to new part, fight your rights then.
How much is costed for the JPJ application? We charge our customer RM300, in Perak.

About the 2 to 3 structural parts, for your information most of the insurance company people is not educated with that. You might be the first one among consumer if you bring this case to consumer court, we would be glad if you do so because we (workshop) are waiting for someone like you to appear.

For your information, Normally A pillar design consisted of three layers. The reinforcement is the centre layer and cannot be repaired. By looking at the photo, apparently A pillar outer RH can be repaired. A pillar outer is consider comestic part actually, not really consider structural part for your information. It just a soft layer of metal actually. I could not judge the damage of A pillar reinforcement though.

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_2008_TOYO...HPPNK_6101.html

A short checking over here shown that the A pillar is indeed consisted of total 3 layers for Wish Year 2008.
I'm not too sure with the JPJ rule about structural repair of 3 structural parts (max), whether it should be 3 for the whole life of the vehicle or 3 structural parts in the same accident. It does differs.

You and Etiqa basically have the rights to decide whether the car should be repaired or declare total loss. You need information by your side to fight for it, whether an independent adjuster report, or your findings on the JPJ latest regulation on how a vehicle should be repaired, to fight your rights.
We, the workshop only can assist you on that.

Loss adjuster is certainly not the most powerful person. Bank Negara governs all of them.
When I say Bank Negara governs them, I think you shall know where you should the letter to? To express your concern of the car safety if it being repaired.

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Added on November 28, 2012, 11:42 pmLet me reply to those who have mentioned to you about the safety issue if 2nd accident occurred on the same vehicle, same location.
As long as the parts that cannot be repaired (the damage is kinked, and certain material cannot be repaired & so must be replaced), the integrity of the vehicle is maintained as long as the correct repair process is being done. Puspakom can assure that by performing the JPJ technical inspection.

FYI, only mild steel and comestic parts (fender, door, quarter panel, bonnet, boot lid, bumpers) can be repaired if the damage is minimal.
Reinforcement of Pillars, runningboard panels, chassis, boot floor cannot be repaired and must be repaired.

Its more about proper repair.

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Added on November 28, 2012, 11:43 pmHey bro, your workshop in Kota Kinabalu?
I think I might have your Association President b4 in the FAWOAM annual dinner.

You guys charging RM800-RM1000 over there, is it mainly because of the 4x4 over there?
Checked your facebook, seem good business over there

I'm from Perak.

This post has been edited by allenultra: Nov 28 2012, 11:47 PM

Too dangerous. I wouldn't drive that car.

Can you get compensated for loss of resale value?

The issue that I have is that in modern cars every part seems to be important and designed to make the car safer. In the oldern days, yes, only a few parts so important. But these days from what I know the strength of every single metal piece is carefully chosen to absorb the most energy as smoothly as possible so serious injuries can be avoided. Any repair, even welding completely new pieces to it, should have an impact on the safety of the vehicle.

If the owner is not at fault, the insured is entitle to claim "loss of resale value, loss of vehicle use, loss of insurance premium etc" from the third party insurance.
How much will they pay is another matter though.

is not bout how much they will compensate...is how many years they are going to approve it...lolz

my customer claimed kurnia...6years....

by the way, im from kk. i visited ipoh Soo Kee before, i bought the same chassis measuring system like him too from d same supplier.

I just had State Association meeting with Soo Kee 2 hours ago.
What a small world.
I remember I visited a workshop in KK, with surname Loke more than 10 years ago.

Is KK president chong ah kau? I hope my memory serves me well.

Kurnia does takes very long.
My own car from Zurich, 2 months. It depends actually, not all insurance companies take forever. Owner has to follow up on that.

This post has been edited by allenultra: Nov 29 2012, 12:39 AM

how dangerous is dangerous bro?

if the A pillar is seriously damaged, ok la...i accepted your statement..its dangerous to replace/fix it back

but if just based on TS provided photos, it is just A Pillar outer layer problem only, its skin only bro....

but if skin damaged also considered dangerous, then i got no comment

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Added on November 29, 2012, 12:45 am10 yrs ago i still a kid

now me n my bro starting to handle the workshop edi, its family business.....

thats why my shop is updated in kk...the equipments i bought, only i got at kk. other workshops still canot accept new technologies, sad

This post has been edited by huakenny: Nov 29 2012, 12:45 AM

huakenny, you are over estimate the damage of the A pillar LEFT.
The A pillar reinforcement is kink and bent, it need to be replaced, not just the outer layer only. Its not just "skin" as you mentioned, its one of the structural part.
I'm not sure if you have attend TTS (Thatcham Time System) or VDA (Vehicle Damage Assessors), if you haven't, you consider do so. Or send your estimator for this course. Do consult MRC for it.

10 years ago, I'm in my high school anyway. Same here, family business.

cant really see it clear from d photos..need more photos actually if possible

no worries.i graduated in automotive and business field, same to my bro ..we all degree holder...just no time follow soo kee they all go oversea only

better ask TS sent the wish to ur shop la

This post has been edited by huakenny: Nov 29 2012, 12:55 AM