They keep bringing up Dr M, Rosmah, and that princess of Pahang, whatever her name was. They gloss over the fact that none of them have spoken up in their defence.

Not quite sure how they got Dr M involved since he's usually savvy enough to see through bullshit. Or maybe he did it on purpose because he wants the Chinese to get scammed, who cares if a handful of Malays and Indians get dragged along as collateral damage.

Rosmah, you just need to make a big donation to her precious Permata program and she'll grace you with her presence. She just loves being treated like a VIP in a big function anyway.

The Pahang Princess, well, there's a company willing to make her chairman for no reason. That's a fat salary just for a title. What exactly were her responsibilities supposed to be for Genneva? None whatsoever, which was why she was so willing to accept. Who wouldn't? But now that Genneva is dragging her name into the muck, she seems to have disappeared. Not a peep from the chairman.

http://forum.numyx.com/Thread-genneva-from...rm1million-cash

Good article, and it was linked by someone on the GMS page too asking if it is true.

I dunno about this. It could be true. We don't have the statistics and customer info anyway. We just assume that its majority Chinese since they make the most noise and are the most public face.

Are you referring to that one who was interviewed on BFM, called the issue a 'national crisis', who's first name starts with 'Pat' and surname is 'Lu'?

So anyone got the scoop on what the Genneva directors spoon-fed to the senior consultants that they have renewed vigor in defending the sham?

Have you ever studied accounting? Do you know what a balance sheet is? Do some research before we take this any further, else you're just wasting everyone's time.

DO IT! Don't just post about it, you gutless coward.

I wonder why is it that I never ever hear of any dodgy MLM or ponzi scheme until it blows up in a very public way. I've never even heard of Lampaberger until it was brought up here.

Than again, I'm pretty selective about my friends and who I mix with. Anyone who would dabble in this kind of nonsense, I would have cut ties with them ages ago. Heck, I even warn my friends to never forward any chain letter/jokes/stories to my personal e-mail or I will punch them in the face when I next see them. If the e-mail is not personally written by them, I'm not interested in reading it.

Suffice to say, I have minimal exposure to scams and spam even.

Glossing over the fact that RPK not just called their operation ponzi, but also accused them of only thinking about themselves instead of the country when it comes to choosing a govt.

I have to salute RPK here. The target that he is slamming is still singing his praises.

I have to disagree. Gold only has value because modern civilization perceives it to have value. If we were to regress back to a primitive state, gold is next to useless. In a way, that makes it no different from fiat money.

Think about it, what practical use do people actually have for gold? It has a unique property of being both conductive and is chemically stable. This makes it useful it electronics, along with some minor uses in medicine and dentistry. However, the amount needed is actually very small and for the most part, recyclable (except for tooth fillings which don't get recycled until the owned bites the dust).

Aside from that, the fact that it is shiny and does not corrode makes it suitable for jewelry and coinage except that it is rather soft and needs to be alloyed. However, I think you will agree when I say that this is not very practical at all and jewelry really doesn't use that much gold as well.

That is the reason why gold, as a commodity, mostly just sits around in vaults. We have no reason to convert the bullion into something else. Petroleum, as a commodity, will eventually be pumped into vehicles. Copper, as a commodity, will also be eventually used. There will be a point when demand for copper outstrips supply for it. Why do you think there are people in the US who are hoarding pennies by the millions? Supply is running low, and people expect the penny to eventually be taken out of circulation as the production cost far exceeds the face value. When that happens, those copper hoarders are going to earn far more than any gold trader.

I really wish I hung on to those 1 sen coins but I don't think their copper content was as pure as the US penny.

Well, the thing is copper bullion is not exactly cheap. On the other hand, a US penny is just well...1 cent. However, the value of the metal in a penny dated before 1982 is about 2+ cents at current market value.

Essentially, investing in US pennies means you are buying metal at a 50% discount. Sure, you will need to process the coins later to separate out the copper and zinc but if you have hoarded them by the millions...well, your investment has effectively doubled.

You just need to wait for the US govt to take the penny out of circulation else it is a federal offence for you to smelt it.

Who the hell is talking cock?

Bank's cash reserves are less than liabilities, yes. That is normal. Assets less than liabilities? Never - not without it being a major scandal once the auditors pick up on it. There is a reason why it is called a balance sheet. It must balance. A = L + E.

To give a real-life example to those thick-skull GMS folks. Let's say they take out a loan from the bank to buy Genneva gold. They will not hold physical gold as an asset (assuming Genneva delivered) and owe a liability to the bank.

As for the bank. the bank's cash reserves goes down, but the money that you owe them goes back into the balance sheet as an asset (Accounts Receivable, or something like that. I don't fully remember the accounting details). The value of their assets actually doesn't change at the point of the loan.

So you see, the bank's balance sheet balances. By right, your own balance sheet should also balance. Except...well, I do believe Genneva doesn't always deliver the gold on time. So you have no gold, no money, and a loan on your hand. You're broke and you owe people money. Yet you still seem to think you made a good decision to trust in Genneva.

Actually my point is that while gold is used in tech, the actual amount is not at all that much. Also, while the other rare elements like lithium are expanded in the production of tech, gold can actually be recovered and recycled from old circuit boards. The process is rather toxic but not any more than the actual extraction of newly mined gold itself.

This is why I said that gold is overvalued as a commodity. Fact is most of the gold mined so far does nothing but sit around in vaults while people speculate on its value. That's the reason why gold was used for currency in the first place - civilization had no other practical use for it in history. There was a copper age, a bronze age, and an iron age in history but no golden age except as a metaphor.

We're not ever likely to use up the gold that has been mined so far unless tech progresses to the point where we are building vast starships. Maybe in a few hundred years...

This post has been edited by arubin: Nov 2 2012, 02:30 PM

Yup, and to be frank its getting rather boring too. These GMS folks aren't providing any new sources of entertainment. C'mon, march already you bunch of pansies.

Pat Lu & Co have no balls lar...figuratively and literally.

In all fairness, if you owe banks money and cannot pay back, they will take your house, your car, and maybe even your dirty underwear in order to settle the debt.

Like that guy whose house got auctioned off because he used it to finance his gold purchase with Genneva. Poor sod...

Someone did suggest they all chip some money to collectively hire a lawyer. They estimated their own number at 60k, so if everyone contribute RM20 than they would have RM1.2 million to hire a top lawyer. Someone even proposed they get Karpal Singh.

Once again, this is all talk. See anyone stepping up to take charge of this task? Takde. Not even the one who proposed it. Useless, the bunch of them.

How GMS perceive themselves:


What they really are:

Supposedly, they have submitted audited reports to BNM on a regular basis. Question is, audit by who? Madoff was also audited regularly. The firm responsible has also been charged and sued for perpetrating the scam.

Anyone can hit the like button. Even those without a Facebook account. Quite a few have done so just to slam them.

I was wondering why someone mentioned the Thai royal family in the GMS page. Didn't know it was because they invested heavily. I don't care if it causes a diplomatic incident. We are not compensating them from public funds. However, if bnm wants to pay them back first ahead if other victims, than its none of business.

That is true, but nevertheless the Royal Family of Thailand is a tricky issue. I do not know if our government dares to anger them. I suspect that they might indeed be compensated fully for their loss in order in avoid a diplomatic incident. Even if they can't be compensated now, it might happen later at the expense of every other victim - y'know, pay out whatever is left to the Thai royals first, than only divide to the rest. While I do think that this is unfair, it is also none of my business. They can blame whoever was responsible for bringing the royals on board.

Also, I don't believe its fair to blame BNM or LYN forum for allowing these scams to pop up in the first place. Even the courts have to presume innocence until proven guilty. No one had absolute proof that Genneva was a scam when it first started.

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Added on November 4, 2012, 11:10 amWe have a right to suspect they are scammers. We have a right to warn people that what they are investing in might be a scam. We have a right to tell people to use their common sense. If it weren't for such warning, there might have been more victims who are exposed to it.

Nobody might know the truth, but that does not mean that we are not allowed to take an educated guess at what it is either. We are allowed to speculate on the outcome, else what did you think a forum is for?

This post has been edited by arubin: Nov 4 2012, 11:10 AM