Hi all, I'm new here and new to the strength training. Having signed up for a gym recently and been doing a lot of reading. Just want some opinions on between Starting Strengths and StrongLifts 5x5, which one would be better for a beginner?

My main goals is to drop some body fat and increasing lean muscle mass on the same time. Used to run a lot (common misconception), then after some reading here realized what a mistake that is and seldom done cardio ever since.

My current stats:
Height: 157cm
Weight: 65.2
Body fat percentage: 21.6%

Gonna start with having clean diet, intend to skip off carbs directly..done that before so shouldn't be a problem. Anyway, the ultimate goal would be dropping body fat percentage to 10-12%, then only see how far can I drop it even more. So, can anyone advice me if I should follow SS or Stronglifts 5x5? For a beginner, I think isolation is out of the question right? Appreciate the feedbacks

Nice to see that somebody been reading before opening a thread to ask questions

About the workout, you can choose either to do a Starting Strength or SL 5x5. Both of them are a good routine but I've done SL 5x5 before and I'm impress with it. With the 3rd revision update (Mehdi add a new workout on both workout day), I think it would be more complete.

About your goal, I would highly suggest that you go for a bulk option first. Clean bulk, not dirty. Why? Because at your current weight, the amount of muscle mass is low and having a 10-12% body fat would only show your abs and that's it. If you bulk first, probably until you reach 75kg or 80kg @ almost 27% body fat, then you start to go for cutting phase. Sure, there would be a lot of fat accumulated on your body but having a non-muscular body on a low bf% ain't good either.

lol. I've been here long enuff to see numerous people getting flamed for asking funny questions when the answer is just at the stickies Based on your reply, maybe i'll try SL 5x5. Moreover, SL 5x5 have an iphone app which i think will make my life easier to track the progress.

The bulk option that you mentioned, does it mean by having a clean diet and eating more than my daily calorie maintenance? I intend to plan my diet to be mainly consist of protein (chicken breast/pork cutlet), vegetables and some healthy fats such as nuts. Never tot of counting calorie, probably just eat whenever i feel hungry. Will that work? In the same time, i'll probably continue to workout hard to burn off those unhealthy fats. I was at first thinking of cutting first because most of my body fats are concentrated at my tummy area, and it's very unsightly
Can you explain more on the clean bulking part?

even a 1000+ senior member had been flamed before cause asking noob questions. lol. Yeah, SL 5x5 got an iPhone apps. My lecturer used it and it's neat

When in bulking period, of course you had to eat well above the calorie maintenance. How much and what you ate define the cleanliness. You can go more than 20% of you calorie maintenance for bulking but that would resort to more fat accumulation than by just having a 15-20% more calorie above calorie maintenance. Since you are already in 20% bf range, having a dirty bulk will increase your bf% too high but with low amount of muscle mass.

Further more, having more muscles make it more easier to cut because you already have a high BMR and it will lead to higher calorie maintenance and more calorie deficit can be created.

Whatever is your current goal, counting calorie is a must. How could you know that you already reach your daily protein intake if you aren't counting your calorie?

Hmm, true also. Based on your advice, guess I need to start to do some further research regarding calorie counting as well as how many percentage of protein/carbs/fat I should take per day.

Yeah, more than 20% of my daily calorie intake would be quite hard to handle. Moreover, like you said..my bf is already in the 20% range, so I'm not too keen to increase it further. I'll try to increase my daily calorie intake by 15% and proceed from there. Definitely not gonna bulk it by dirty food, perhaps chicken breast all the way.

SS all the way. Don't change programs till you hit a 2 plate bench/3 plate squat/4 plate deadlift (you can hit this goal in six months if you're consistent and dedicated). Though if I were you, I'd do some rows instead of power cleans and incorporate some front squats + accessory work.

Forget about your bf% till you have a respectable strength base. If you cut now all you'll see is skin and bones.

Bulk 10% above maintenance, track macros, consume min amount of protein daily, get in your fish oils/vitamins and sleep.

oh and disregard 'healthy' foods. you can eat anything really. Be it burgers/pizza, just anything!

track macros with a calorie calculator app, such as myfitnesspal.

Use the katch-mcardle formula to measure your TDEE (total daily energy expenditure)

This post has been edited by fabians94: Sep 17 2012, 04:27 AM

That statement is totally the opposite. First you ask to stick with SS and don't change the program but then you asked him to do rows replacing power cleans and add front squats + accessory works. Which one would it be? Stick or change?

I'm abit concern regarding my diet to be honest. Based on you all's advice to bulk up, I understand the need else my muscle would not grow. However, I intend to base my diet on only protein and healthy fats only onwards, omitting carbs. Is it possible to bulk up by having such a diet only? Some said need carbs as well, so I'm a little bit confuse

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.p...35564721&page=1

Fine if you must attack, I'll be more specific; Modified SS. Power Cleans is useless unless you're going to compete in some weightlifting competition. The program lacks some accessory work.

When I said don't "change" the program, I mean switch to a different one like a useless bro split or madcow 5x5. Modification for the better is never a bad option. Read that thread.

you need a balance of everything. As long as you get your min amount of protein and eat 10% above maintenance and sleep well, you'll be growing regardless.

This post has been edited by fabians94: Sep 17 2012, 03:45 PM

Don't mean to attack you on my previous reply but what you said was contradict. If that answer was given to me, I would understand it but for a newb, it isn't.

Even I do a modified SL5x5 after 6 months on it because it lack of the accessory works.

It seems that what you have in mind is that carbs are bad. Carbs is not bad at all. You gain fat not because all the carbs that you consumed but the calorie surplus that you have; contributed by the food that you ate. Even when someone is one no carb high protein can be fat because of the excess calorie intake.

Who says power cleans is useless?? Power cleans is one damn good exercise.

You need to do it right though. Or else you run the risk of pulling or hurting something nasty.

Not for noobs, especially noobs not training with an experienced lifter.

Even if done lightly, you still need perfect technique to work the upper back and rear delts.

Rows is superior due to it being much easier and the ability to perform it with heavier weights.

It's not going to be easy to find a certified coach who can train you to be a perfect power cleaner.

"Cleaning a weight is a method of lifting a barbell from the floor to the starting position of the Military Press. The clean and press is an important exercise that starts off with a lot of leg movement to get the weight moving, then involves the traps, arms, and back as well as the shoulders to help you develop a truly Herculean look." - Arnold. Yes, Mr "Ah'll be Bahk" himself.

"This is not a low-level or medium-level movement. It is a high-level movement, comprehensive and systemic, meaning in simple terms a full-body, major-muscle, multi-joint exercise responsible for sending messages throughout the entire body to grow - to adapt - and meet the demand. This includes enzymes, neural pathways and hormones. Clean and presses growl. They bad." - Dave Draper.

While I don't do cleans (and rarely DL) myself, no reason to say they can't work.

I do like rows though. Kroc rows FTW!

1) Starting Strength is a beginner routine.
2) The Power Cleans Rippetoe incorporated into his routine was mainly to develop upper back and rear delt muscles.
3) Since it's a very technical movement, it should be discouraged for beginners. Most "pros" barely know what they're doing anyway. (I have no idea how to clean/want to know/give a damn/been lifting for less than a year)
4) You should deadlift often. lol

5) Oh and.. don't quote arnold lol. Physique does not equal knowledge.

This post has been edited by fabians94: Sep 19 2012, 12:16 AM

why?

It's a major component in strength training?

So Arnold doesn't know shit what he does, that's why he got that kind of body. I wonder if he knows something about bodybuilding, maybe he can become as big as the HULK?

This post has been edited by alien9: Sep 19 2012, 12:47 AM

Who made it a "major component of strength training" and not something like pullups, farmer's walks, cleans (yes) instead?

I used to deadlift but only occasionally. Doesn't fit into my routine since I'm hitting a 6-day split.

Most of Arnolds training consisted of pure bro useless shit. If his training is as useful as you might think it is, why was he a bodybuilder and not a coach? Why doesn't he have a large follower base only following the training he proposes?

Powerlifting consists of 3 major movements. The bench press, squat and the deadlift. These 3 lifts are the major compound exercises in determining ones strength level.

The deadlift works the entire body thoroughly. Traps, lats, lower back, quads, hams, glutes, shoulders and core.

Other movements are mainly referred to as accessory work. (farmer's walk, pullups, etc.)

Bottom line is, if you can't deadlift 4 plates, you're still a beginner.

Ha ha ha ha ha
Still a beginner?!??! Ha ha ha.

Ok then. :smh:

If Arnold's workout is useless shit then he wouldnt have been who he was to begin with. He is not a coach coz he is making LOADS MORE MONEY as THE TERMINATOR! Come on man, if his workout is USELESS, he wouldnt be Mr Olympia 7 times and 6 of it back to back year over year!

And not being able to deadlift 4 plates doesnt mean anything. If you could lift 4 plates but with crappy form, makes u a bigger idiot compared to anyone who deadlifts 30lbs but perfect form.

Yes. The whole point of Starting Strength routine is to hit 1RM of these goals:

2 Plate bench. (225lbs)
3 Plate squat. (315lbs)
4 Plate deadlift. (405lbs)

If you can't hit these, whatever you have achieved means nothing.

It's not about how much you look like you can bench. It's about how much you can bench.

---

Added on September 19, 2012, 10:55 amMy argument is in the terms of training. It's ridiculous to bring up the fact that he is a celebrity.

1) Back then, information from proven scientific studies based on nutrition and training were limited. Bodybuilders went with whatever their instinct told them to do.

2) He is on juice. Anyone with a shitty routine and diet will have much better gains than those who are natural, regardless of their training regimen, sleep time and nutritional intake..

3) Not everyone is as gifted genetically as Arnold was.

4) If physique = level of knowledge, why not listen to the roidheads in the gym who preach rubbish to back their ego up?

5) If you can deadlift 4 plates with a crappy form, you for sure can deadlift at least 3 plates with perfect form. Therefore, far more superior than a scrawny deadlifter who can't even deadlift the 45lbs bar.

This post has been edited by fabians94: Sep 19 2012, 11:04 AM

1) most "pros" don't know how to clean......

2) "You are a beginner......"

3) Calling out ARNOLD!

I don't know who you are pal, but unless you just received your IFBB Pro card or competed in the 2012 world powerlifting federation, you're making a mighty lot of assumptions here. And you know what they say about assumptions and asses.....

I am a beginner. I stand by the fact that most "pros" don't know how to clean. Bringing Arnold into this debate is ridiculous.

Could you clarify what assumptions I am making? Or if I'm making any stupid remarks? I'll be more than happy to cite my claims.

another SS fanboy. it never ends. madcow is nuts when done right. kaspersky is a reg here and he does madcow. unbelievable strength when i trained with him. dont diss programs because you read too much.

bro splits? like the ones 90% of the people here are using? post up a pic and show us how well you fare against the regs here.

most programs work. its just finding one that you're comfortable with. bodybuilding isnt -just- about strength. it depends on the individual goals. if yours is strength then fine, doesnt mean everyone thinks the way you do.

and the way you emphasize "if you dont deadlift 4pps you're nothing" pretty much says you can do it. Prove it. I want a vid by next week else whatever you say here is null and void. Play with your pokemon cards instead.

The assumptions that unless somebody deadlift 4 plates still considered beginner assumption. The Arnold on juice assumption, that his workout is bro science bullshit assumption. Too many assumptions on your side while you are merely a beginner. Read too much?

if a 7 time mr olympia were to give me advice, and you doing the same, who would you think im gonna listen to? He's not a coach because he went into the movie business, making a crap load of money. He does not have a large following for his training routine because hes not a coach. get the cycle here?

Last i checked, strength was checked against your bodyweight, not how many plates you could lift. So. Much. Ego.

and on the contrary, bodybuilding isnt about strength. its physique. its not how much you can bench, its how much you look like you can bench.

its ridiculous for you to argue why is he not a coach in the first place.

i dont get why you're trying to discredit a 7 time mr olympia. he forgot to shake your hand when he passed by you?

with more knowledge, you obtain the ability to differentiate between crap and good advice.

crappy form does not improve with lesser weights. not all the time.

maybe fabians94 is Kai Greene? He didn't yet got Mr. O title, that is why so much hatred for Arnold.

Madcow is a terrific program. However it's frequency and volume is too much for a beginner to handle. I was only using it as an example for OP.

I am only 159lbs and therefore I have nothing to prove.

I'm emphasizing strength because there's really no point in training if you're jacked as hell and benching less than a 140 pounder.

I don't deadlift 4plates. I haven't even reached the 3plate mark.

Pokemon cards are fun, lol.

You can flame all you want and be defensive. An intellectual debate is all about standing your ground and proving what you think and feel is right.

Anyways my stats as of today:

Bench: 140lbs 3x5
Squat: 230lbs 3x5
Deadlift: 285lbs 1x5
Military Press: 100lbs 2x5
Front Squat: 155lbs 3x5

Here's a video of me deadlifting 125kgs. 1x3, 1x2. My form has its flaws.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqAeBhu97Ik&feature=youtu.be

I'm going to drop the topic on Arnold.

In Rippetoe's book, there was nothing pertaining to weight to strength ratio. Those were the target lifts.

This post has been edited by fabians94: Sep 19 2012, 11:19 AM

Do you think that a 220lbs man who bench 225lbs has reach the target when a 165lbs man can bench the same? Those poundage, albeit it is quite big, doesn't take any consideration on the lifter's weight.

Strength is based on the person. If he can bench 1X his bodyweight, that ain't gonna be impressive compared to 1.5X or 2X. Sure, SS is good with all the Mark Rippetoe fan based but everything is not about strength.

You want to go for strength style, go for it. It's your choice but having made some bs assumptions make you look stupid.

LMFAO @ "bro split". That one always cracks me up.

Dude some advice - just because people emphasize physique doesn't mean they aren't strong. Since you're only a beginner maybe you should shut up and lift for a few years before you start calling people out.

Everyone has different training philosophies because we all have different goals.

oh now you're saying its terrific?

you know why you're getting flamed right? you got your vision set up so narrow that you believe what you do its the best way and therefore everything else is wrong. Even arnold.

wrong mentality for a public forum.

why are u telling us your weight? by your standards of strength, BW shouldnt even matter. the number of plates you deadlift does. am i wrong here?

dont come in here guns ablaze bible thumping and expect us to nod our heads and acknowledge you and your advice. reading and actually doing it are two different things.


and dropping the barbell after a set of deads? really?

i wonder what your gym owner would say if i did the same thing with my max.


FYI
in powerlifting, the very event to measure strength. your total poundage for all three lifts are divided by your BW for the total score.

This post has been edited by mikehuan: Sep 19 2012, 11:39 AM

Like I said, I was merely using it as an example. Madcow, wendler's, SL, anything that is proven IMO, is good.

My vision is narrow, only because I'm emphasizing the fact that SS is the right program for a beginner.

I told you my weight because you wanted proof or smth like that lol.

I'm not advising, my case in point is that SS is the ideal routine for a beginner.

I know how powerlifting is measured. If you can't perform those lifts that a beginner should aim for, your weight shouldn't be taken into account IMO.

you should be a politician. in malaysia. right wing. nuff said.

Clear rounded back on the last rep. Congratulations, keep that up and you're headed for a hernia.

Now you know why I don't deadlift regularly. I like to push to failure and the last few grinds usually lead to sloppy form. In deads sloppy form = really bad news.

dude your legs are skinny
time to eat more and less typing

and FYI alots IFBB bodybuilder they dont do bench press and deadlift
physique is their goal
strong can be alots of term,they can be strong in particular lift
what if you can deadlift 4 plates but when move house i ask you to carry 2 tables from 1st floor to 6th floor
in this time i am sure a crossfit people done better than you
strong ? nah.just different goal

This post has been edited by theCrab: Sep 19 2012, 12:34 PM

DB presses and other chest movements are far more superior compared to bench for optimal hypertrophy. Which is what an IFBB pro is aiming for.

I don't know about the perks of crossfit. So I can't say anything.

I understand your view when you mention different goals.

But IMO, even if someone intends to focus on hypertrophy, a stronger strength base will lead to much better gains.

That's true. Doing Dumbbell Row with 110lbs is far much more better gain than using 50lbs but compound movement isn't the answer. Sure, it does helps the overall muscles built but saying that you need to deadlift 4 plates so that it can help you do 110lbs one arm dumbbell row is nonsense. The carry over isn't that great. So, the only way to train to lift heavy weight is to, train that exercise.

I disagree. Carryover is more than you think.

Speaking from experience, I didn't do squats until my gym acquired a power cage few months ago. Hit a pr immediately on the first session itself.

My deadlift poundages went up considerably during the times I didn't squat.

For squats, the deadlift sure helps it but for one arm dumbbell row? Owh yeah and bench press too. My deadlift and squats are good but bench press are sucks.

This post has been edited by alien9: Sep 19 2012, 12:54 PM

At least u can carry your jacked body around even if u cant bench 140lbs, but if you're skinny, what do u gonna do?carry the bench around to show people u can bench 200lbs?

Well maybe that is too much. Probably show a video he bench 200lbs?

This.

Doing triceps isolation exercises and even delt work will also help increase your bench more than you think.

let me emphasize this yeah, since "newbies" is the scope of discussion.


There's a difference between a bodybuilder and a powerlifter.

A powerlifter does not need to look like he can lift 1000lbs but he can actually do so,

A bodybuilder may not be able to lift 1000lbs but he sure as hell looks like he can.

Know who you are, a weightlifter or a bodybuilder. Strength is a good indicator for bodybuilders but not the main objective, a bodybuilder's main objective is his physique.

If you want to be a powerlifter by all means, ignore your physique and work on your strength, but if your goal is to be a bodybuilder , then put the poundages you can lift as secondary.

The biggest mistake "newbies" make is to put too much weight on the bar trying to be a powerlifter but wanting to be a bodybuilder and they end up snapping all their shit up.

SS, madcow, 5/3/1 , HVT, GVT, HIT bla bla bla bla etc are all means to an end. All tools for your to put stress on your musular and nervous system to stimulate new growth. In terms of a bodybuilder, more muscular growth, in terms of a weightlifter, more strength.

Know your objective and work from there. Why complicate things?

I think the TS for this must be damn confused by now... LOL!

This notion is called accessory work.

---

Added on September 19, 2012, 1:40 pmThis is where opinions vary. I'd be so ashamed of myself if a guy half my size can bench more than me.

I understand where you're coming from.

But like I said earlier, the heavier you lift the more stress you put on your muscular and nervous system. Which is why I jumped on the bandwagon of SS in the first place. Even if my main objective was size.

Even so, lifting heavier weights every session acts as a strong source of motivation. You'll be more motivated to eat, sleep and lift more.

This post has been edited by fabians94: Sep 19 2012, 01:40 PM

That is your opinion and everyone is entitled for theirs. There is nothing wrong that but belittle others because they have different opinion or understanding than yours is wrong.

So by your statement, people who go for bodybuilding route doesn't have strong source of motivation? You are not there so you didn't know shit and you shouldn't talk shit. Powerlifter aim for strength, bodybuilder aim for muscles. That is their motivation. And saying that bodybuilders doesn't lift more weight/reps than previous workout sessions prove that you are being blinded that powerlifter pawned all.

If you want to have a discussion, don't be one sided bias judgemental assumptions person.

I did not belittle.

What I'm saying is SS will be beneficial for beginners who aim for size as their primary goal. This is because you will still gain size on SS and more once you move on to hypertrophy as you have a good strength base.

I did not touch on lifetime goals.

Neither did I say bodybuilders have no strong source of motivation..

This post has been edited by fabians94: Sep 19 2012, 02:12 PM

LOL if you think SS "accessory" work is the equivalent of a one day bodypart focused split.

You're in for a biiiiiiiiig surprise.

Source: 4 yrs lifting experience.

PS: Mark Rippetoe doesn't look like he lifts.

There is no fixed number for accessory work.. you do it at your own discretion.

Mark Rippetoe does not have a great physique. But his training methods are top stuff as his clients can vouch for it.

Which is why I linked to a modified SS version in the first few posts.

After scrolling through this thread. The only thing i can add is....

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee.........

Dear TS, go on and do SL or SS, either one is fine. At around 20% bf, I would suggest that you lose the body fat a bit before you bulk because I don't think you gonna like how you will look if you start bulking at that level. Have a good diet, stay motivated and have fun lifting. And another thing, cardio is fine, just don't over do it.

Fabian. I'm sad. You're implying i'm weak.

Well there's your problem. You're doing that useless nonfunctional "bro split" instead of SS.

Sorry for asking noob question, but what's "bro split"? i think i know about split workouts where something like isolation workouts, split by days..but what's bro split?

This post has been edited by mikazzz: Sep 19 2012, 04:09 PM

A derogatory term used by hardcore purist powerlifters/strength trainees who only think compounds are the means to an end to categorize conventional bodybuilder splits.

You're right! I definitely need to get more advice from Fabian now.

whatever you say. =)

It's just a definition. I don't agree nor disagree. Heh. B!tch make sure you turn up later for shisha. MJ at 9.

I can barely deadlift 4 plates, but I've been training for 4 years. Pray enlighten me. Show some pics/ vids of urself doing the big 3.

Oh, I just saw the vid. Lol. Just another keyboard warrior apparently.

This post has been edited by John91: Sep 19 2012, 07:30 PM

Just saw the video, are you sure you're preaching SS Rippetoe style? Because the way you deadlift is NOWHERE near rippetoe's preaching. Your setup itself is wrong.

Cut feet in half with bar, 1 inch apart between shins and bar, hands down gripping the bar without lowering your hips, drop your knees until your shin touches the bar, look at something on the floor approximately 5 to 7 feet infront of you at all times to keep your head neutral, squeeze your pecs and pull.

I suggest you go to the pinned 101 thread where there's instructional videos of Rippetoe's methods of lifting before you come here and start preaching about how everyone should go about doing SS.

don't get me wrong, SS is a great program, it's just you that's making it look back. ala crossfit zealots. again, crossfit is a great program by itself, but grew a bad name because of its "fanboys ( mikehuan, 2012)"

This post has been edited by razorboy: Sep 19 2012, 08:29 PM

I've seen the way he teaches how to deadlift. But I find that way easier. It's based off an elitefts video.

And after saying that Mark Rippetoe is far more better than Arnold cause of his training method have fanboys all around the world, you ain't doing what he says? How about you walk the talk first before condemning other people training routine.

Actually I don't want to comment your video cause my deadlift ain't that huge and I didn't have any video to prove it but seeing how you place your hand between your leg on the first lift says that you ain't nothing but like most Mark Rippetoe fanboys. SS>all.

---

Added on September 19, 2012, 10:13 pmOwh yeah. And you said that your deadlift setup based on EliteFTS video? Are you sure??

This post has been edited by alien9: Sep 19 2012, 10:13 PM

if i see a guy larger than me doing bro-curls everyday, i would shut up and let him do his bro curls. I would bet money that this dude would not correct anyone's routine at the gym. It's way too easy to type .

Not everything he says is law. For example, I didn't agree with incorporating cleans in the program.

Which is exactly why I linked to the Modified version in the first few posts of this thread.

I placed my hand in the middle of the bar to increase tension while setting up my underhand grip. Here's a link to the video that I base my form off of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOhWfhvJPLE

Fabian. I rarely take sides but I think you should really stop. You're kinda making a fool of yourself. There are people on this thread who always disagree with each other but when they all have a general consensus of you putting your foot in your mouth, there's something wrong here.

For example, I don't bench press. I smith bench. I don't squat. I hack squat. And the only core I do is deadlift. Are you calling my training sh!t as well? And also calling me weak? You are offending a lot of people who have put blood, tears and sweat into this hobby/lifestyle. It's extremely disparaging and patronizing when you lecture people on absolutism given the fact you don't have the lifting numbers to back it up.

This post has been edited by darklight79: Sep 20 2012, 12:31 AM

You obviously have the knowledge and information to back your decision up.

1) you're swole as fck
2) you're way beyond any beginner routine

This whole dispute started because I was encouraging SS but I discouraged cleans. Everything else was based off mere misunderstandings.

I do remember your statement where you said "physique=/=knowledge'.

I stand by that claim. However that doesn't mean everyone with a desirable physique has no knowledge whatsoever.

And there you said that Arnold didn't know shit about training. I guess darklight79 have better physique then Arnold eh?

You're analogies do not make sense. srs

This post has been edited by fabians94: Sep 20 2012, 01:10 AM

I dunno about you but the only time i use clean is when my food is dirty.

u say wot m8?

idk why I find this funny lol

The only thing a newbie needs to know:

Lift big, Eat big, Sleep big = Get Big.

It's not rocket surgery lol.

No misunderstandings from what I can see. You simply ignored every point made againstt you and where you couldn't ignore, you brush it off as a mere "misunderstanding" or deny you made the point in the first place.

The "misunderstanding" is you promoting SS as the best and only program for beginners, and all other programs are "useless", hence me calling you out as a fanboy.

Read back a couple of pages, most of the gist is there anyways

The only comment I'm gonna make about your deadlift is that its more or less the same way I did it when I started out deadlifting. Easier, yes, but deadlift ain't meant to be "easy".

Absolutism is a good description of what's going on here. Though I am following a strength based routine as well does not mean I don't believe other programs don't work. I simply followed what I liked, not because its the "best".

Edit: @djjd: wtf is rocket surgery lol
@razor: basket don't anyhow quote me =.="

This post has been edited by mikehuan: Sep 20 2012, 09:52 AM

Just saw the carroll vid. Its good. Try comparing your technique with his, its not the same. U basically stiff legged your way up when the bar reached your shins.

Never a dull moment in this thread
Newbie question..when you guys say 4 plates...what's the weight per plate? 25? 35? 45? pounds?

45 pounds

Oh boy i missed this thread.

But seriously , this SS , 5x5 nut hugging needs to stop really , i can't even post something on BB.com before getting a "Do SS faggot , then move on to Madcows".

damn i'm demotivated now...i deadlift about..let's see 35x4 (2 each side) = 140lbs!!!! and even that kills me...

Why should you , we all have to start somewhere.

You should see my bench , only 65kgs for reps after 2 years of benching. Now that is bad

Well you can try dividing it into three 10 pound plates and one 5 pound plate on each side and voila! 4 plate deadlift?

Read my first post in this thread. On the phone now so I can't quote it for you.

yes sir..got it..was too taken up by the drama brewing...

@dl: grrrr...!!