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English Clubs Liverpool FC- The Kop Talk 2012, Liverpool 1-2 ManU

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sKyWiR3pT3lTd
post Sep 5 2012, 09:12 AM

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Just to share with everyone.

user posted image

How It Will Work

This is the most straightforward out of all five options, and will use the same players that Rodgers started with against Arsenal on Sunday. With Steven Gerrard taking up the final slot on the right-hand side of the three-man midfield, this 4-3-3 simply involves Fabio Borini and Luis Suarez changing positions up front. Borini will move into the central striking role with Suarez out on the right, and Raheem Sterling will continue in his left forward position.

Why It Will Work

Suarez isn’t cutting it as center-forward, plain and simple. He doesn’t have the clinical finishing required to take advantage of the chances available to him and the ones that he creates by himself. Borini has displayed the work-rate and positional sense previously seen in Dirk Kuyt, and like Kuyt, his main position is central striker. A simple switch of positions will see Suarez turn into creator-in-chief rather than finisher-in-chief, leaving the chances for the more clinical (hopefully) Borini to finish off.

When It Will Work

Instantly.

This doesn’t involve any change in Rodgers’ starting players and would be the easiest option right off the bat. Indeed, before Sterling’s rapid rise into Liverpool’s starting XI, Suarez took up a left-sided position with Borini in the center in their preseason and early Europa League games.

Read further here

This post has been edited by sKyWiR3pT3lTd: Sep 5 2012, 09:17 AM
dillonyong
post Sep 5 2012, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(sKyWiR3pT3lTd @ Sep 5 2012, 09:12 AM)
Just to share with everyone.

How It Will Work

This is the most straightforward out of all five options, and will use the same players that Rodgers started with against Arsenal on Sunday. With Steven Gerrard taking up the final slot on the right-hand side of the three-man midfield, this 4-3-3 simply involves Fabio Borini and Luis Suarez changing positions up front. Borini will move into the central striking role with Suarez out on the right, and Raheem Sterling will continue in his left forward position.

Why It Will Work

Suarez isn’t cutting it as center-forward, plain and simple. He doesn’t have the clinical finishing required to take advantage of the chances available to him and the ones that he creates by himself. Borini has displayed the work-rate and positional sense previously seen in Dirk Kuyt, and like Kuyt, his main position is central striker. A simple switch of positions will see Suarez turn into creator-in-chief rather than finisher-in-chief, leaving the chances for the more clinical (hopefully) Borini to finish off.

When It Will Work

Instantly.

This doesn’t involve any change in Rodgers’ starting players and would be the easiest option right off the bat. Indeed, before Sterling’s rapid rise into Liverpool’s starting XI, Suarez took up a left-sided position with Borini in the center in their preseason and early Europa League games.

Read further here
*
3 games already and we can see the apparent weakness in our defence in handling opponents' quick counter attack. We are very exposed at the back and we are toothless upfront. Our passing is still suspicious and we are doing very badly in a 1 on 1 situation. Nowadays, whenever we have players on a 1 on 1 situation with the goalkeeper, I really dont fancy us scoring, even in penalty because of lack of confidence. The team morale is low.


Petre
post Sep 5 2012, 10:04 AM

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we are moving the ball too slow and making the wrong choices.
carloz28
post Sep 5 2012, 10:06 AM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Sep 5 2012, 08:27 AM)
My point is that Kenny wasn't doing as bad as some suggest. Of course if a person doesn't watch our games, only highlights, then their opinion would differ.
*
So I guess majority of the Liverpool fans worldwide only watch games highlights then i suppose?
twtang
post Sep 5 2012, 10:07 AM

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QUOTE(dillonyong @ Sep 5 2012, 09:59 AM)
3 games already and we can see the apparent weakness in our defence in handling opponents' quick counter attack. We are very exposed at the back and we are toothless upfront. Our passing is still suspicious and we are doing very badly in a 1 on 1 situation. Nowadays, whenever we have players on a 1 on 1 situation with the goalkeeper, I really dont fancy us scoring, even in penalty because of lack of confidence. The team morale is low.
*
I think it is lack of confident. Imagine, we used to play different style of football, like cross ball, long ball, direct football. Suddenly, the boss want us to pass to each other more often. Either, you lack of confident on your teammate because you worry they cannot handle it, or either yourself lack of confident. In short, it is in a uncomfortable situation and need time to go through this. Unless, the players are bought already used to this kind of style like Allen.

For Gerrard, I feel that is going to be tough for him imagine he has been playing with different type of football for a decade, and so many teammates beside him have left. He need to get used to new teammate, new football philisophy, and at his age it is challenging.
reehdus
post Sep 5 2012, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(vcj1992 @ Sep 5 2012, 01:15 AM)
KD turning things around? He would have continued playing Henderson, Adam and Downing no matter how bad they played. I just wonder if it was another manager who actually spent the 100 million King Kenny has basically WASTED, where in the table would we be in? We are talking about 100 million pounds.
*
The weight of the price tags made Kenny think he had to justify the purchases. And the amount spent, was it really Kenny's doing?

QUOTE(Cloud0890 @ Sep 5 2012, 02:02 AM)
If you think that finishing 8th after spending 100+ million is turning around then yeah, pretty sure that's an improvement over a 6th place finish. And that was a time when we arguably still have some pulling power on some of the bigger name players so big money moves for Henderson, Downing and Carroll are pretty shrewd moves I guess.


Added on September 5, 2012, 3:53 am
Suarez and Gerrard should take note. Stop dribbling and passing it out of possession at every opportunity.


Added on September 5, 2012, 4:04 amOf all the free agents available I'm especially keen on the legendary Del Piero. Not an out and out striker but a supporting trequartista. Slotting him into the team will allow Borini to move into a more central position because he seem to be our only natural goalscorer. He is also a set piece specialist and have been known to score goals from outside the box. Its no secret we have problems not just scoring but also creating goals. As the City game has proved, set pieces are good alternative to go to when you can't score from open play.
*
I think finishing 8th and reaching two cup finals is turning around the club, yes. Especially comparing the way we played under Kenny to Hodgson. The bigger name player moves stopped once we became a midtable club, i.e. when Hodgson took over. Whoever thought he had the pedigree to manage Liverpool was sadly mistaken. People keep bringing up the money side of things but come on, if FSG was really a shrewd business group, they wouldn't have sanctioned the buys. I don't think Kenny is to blame. And it's also nice to see how people conveniently forget Kenny also brought in Suarez and Enrique.

QUOTE(Duke Red @ Sep 5 2012, 08:27 AM)
Dalglish's side suffered from the same ailments we have now, an inability to put the ball in the back of the net. We outplayed our opponents 75% of the time, dominating possession and having the most number of shots on goal. We also contrived to hit the post more times than anyone has in a season. His signings may have been questionable but often, we played some pretty decent footy. Rodgers has since come in and looks to be suffering from the same problem - that we simply cannot score. Not much has changed yet but just 3 games into the season, it's too soon to judge so come what may.

My point is that Kenny wasn't doing as bad as some suggest. Of course if a person doesn't watch our games, only highlights, then their opinion would differ.
*
I agree, following the matches I thought there was a world of difference. But then they sacked KD and here we are back at square one, or should I say square -1 considering we only have a 19 man squad now.

dillonyong
post Sep 5 2012, 10:15 AM

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QUOTE(twtang @ Sep 5 2012, 10:07 AM)
I think it is lack of confident. Imagine, we used to play different style of football, like cross ball, long ball, direct football. Suddenly, the boss want us to pass to each other more often. Either, you lack of confident on your teammate because you worry they cannot handle it, or either yourself lack of confident. In short, it is in a uncomfortable situation and need time to go through this. Unless, the players are bought already used to this kind of style like Allen.

For Gerrard, I feel that is going to be tough for him imagine he has been playing with different type of football for a decade, and so many teammates beside him have left. He need to get used to new teammate, new football philisophy, and at his age it is challenging.
*
Yup. Unless we score a quick lucky goal early on, then we can sit back and pass the ball around from behind and let the opponent's defense open up. Or else most of the games are going to be frustrating for us.

I believe the lads are doing everything they can but at the moment, the confidence is really low. You can also see it in Pepe Reina's performance.
Petre
post Sep 5 2012, 10:18 AM

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3 things to attract bigger names - bigger manager, bigger wallet or more success. clubs above us have either one, two or all the criteria...

just look at us now - do we even have one?

players dont go to a club with history, or so called ambition alone.. those factors are behind the 3 above
dillonyong
post Sep 5 2012, 10:23 AM

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QUOTE(Petre @ Sep 5 2012, 10:18 AM)
3 things to attract bigger names - bigger manager, bigger wallet or more success. clubs above us have either one, two or all the criteria...

just look at us now - do we even have one?

players dont go to a club with history, or so called ambition alone.. those factors are behind the 3 above
*
We have Louise Redknapp and The Beatles. Hehe. All your suggestions involve money, buddy. That is what we dont have at the moment. sad.gif
We need mega rich oil king who treats Liverpool like Football Manager 2012 but in reality not virtual. biggrin.gif
Cloud0890
post Sep 5 2012, 10:26 AM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Sep 5 2012, 08:27 AM)
Dalglish's side suffered from the same ailments we have now, an inability to put the ball in the back of the net. We outplayed our opponents 75% of the time, dominating possession and having the most number of shots on goal. We also contrived to hit the post more times than anyone has in a season. His signings may have been questionable but often, we played some pretty decent footy. Rodgers has since come in and looks to be suffering from the same problem - that we simply cannot score. Not much has changed yet but just 3 games into the season, it's too soon to judge so come what may.

My point is that Kenny wasn't doing as bad as some suggest. Of course if a person doesn't watch our games, only highlights, then their opinion would differ.
*
If memory serves me right this problem goes way back to Rafa's last season after the sale of Xabi Alonso. Deprived of his creativity and passing range we were struggling to score goals but still able to do decent because we still have the Torres-Gerrard partnership although declining in form but still effective. Then injury problems to Torres severely affected his form especially after returning from WC '10. The situation worsen when Hodgson encourages long ball defensive tactics that drained every last bit of creativity we had in our team. Torres never recovered from his dip in form, was sold. Gerrard too was having injury problems of his own. So there we have it, Xabi our best playmaker sold, we are a one-two man team in Gerrard and Torres, injured and sold. Who do we have left to lead the team???

This is where Kenny and Comolli failed badly. They weren't sacked because we weren't playing good football, they were sacked because of their shambolic transfer dealings which directly affected our on-field performance. They were given a huge amount of transfer funds that was meant to strengthen our weakening squad, a squad deprived of star players which every club needs to lead the team. They brought in Henderson, Downing and Carroll as if these big money buys are as good as Xabi, Stevie and Fernando. Had they made better purchases I'm sure the team would've gotten much better results as evident of our improving passing play under KK. Saying that we can't make big name buys for the likes of Hazard, Mata etc. is nonsense, if you have 100+ million to spend on superstar players they will come even if we are lingering in midtable because we are spending on quality players and they know its gonna propel us upwards and on a personal level they wanna play with big name players too. Ask any of our signings now they will say they are looking forward to playing alongside Gerrard and Suarez, does Carroll, Downing and Henderson give us that same appeal? Man City did just that! Signing superstar players sends a signal and one will lead to another like a snowball effect.

Now BR is suffering from the failings of previous regimes. If you were to ask KK today, given the chance to turn back time would he have made those signings? I'm pretty sure deep down he knows he could've done better. So in a way he led himself to his own demise. It doesn't matter if Comolli was the one who negotiated those deals because we know KK has the final say, no one dares challenge the legend himself. And we have heard of all those stories saying KK pushed for local British lads when there are better deals out there for foreign players.

This post has been edited by Cloud0890: Sep 5 2012, 10:54 AM
dillonyong
post Sep 5 2012, 11:02 AM

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Looks like Del Piero is still waiting for us to make an offer. Coolness. Perhaps he can show Borini and Suarez how to score from long range, back heel and bicycle kick. biggrin.gif
reehdus
post Sep 5 2012, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(dillonyong @ Sep 5 2012, 11:02 AM)
Looks like Del Piero is still waiting for us to make an offer. Coolness. Perhaps he can show Borini and Suarez how to score from long range, back heel and bicycle kick. biggrin.gif
*
Where did you guys get the news on Del Piero from? I can't find anything much about that.

Also, I just read this. I have to eat my words about Dempsey being too old:

(About Dempsey)He turned 29 last March, and he acknowledges that his body was “beaten up” by the demands of last season.

Manchester United has just paid £24 million for a striker, Robin van Persie, who on Sunday scored a hat trick in the 3-2 victory over Southampton.

Van Persie is also 29.

mkaz
post Sep 5 2012, 11:25 AM

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Del Piero to pick Sydney over Liverpool, according to club CEO
The executive of the A-League team is optimistic that his club will complete a deal to sign the veteran attacker who will refuse a last-ditch offer from the Premier League club

gOAL.com

owen to stoke,del piero sydney fc
so who's left?

dillonyong
post Sep 5 2012, 11:29 AM

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QUOTE(reehdus @ Sep 5 2012, 11:20 AM)
Where did you guys get the news on Del Piero from? I can't find anything much about that.

Also, I just read this. I have to eat my words about Dempsey being too old:

(About Dempsey)He turned 29 last March, and he acknowledges that his body was “beaten up” by the demands of last season.

Manchester United has just paid £24 million for a striker, Robin van Persie, who on Sunday scored a hat trick in the 3-2 victory over Southampton.

Van Persie is also 29.

*
Here you go.
http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/news-d...dneys-way/48896?
Duke Red
post Sep 5 2012, 11:31 AM

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QUOTE(reehdus @ Sep 5 2012, 10:08 AM)
The weight of the price tags made Kenny think he had to justify the purchases. And the amount spent, was it really Kenny's doing?


Whether it was Comolli's decision or his, the bottom line is we paid a lot for players who weren't up to mark. I don't think anyone has denied that mistakes were made in this department. My opinion on the matter however is that I saw enough positives to give Kenny a chance to right the wrong. Yes, I stand strongly by my belief and understanding of the game that we were playing good football, the pass and move of old. We just weren't clinical and there was a fine line between success and failure. If we had converted half the chances that came back off the post, we could potentially have finished in or thereabouts the top four. We certainly weren't playing the crappy, negative football we had been under Hodgson.

QUOTE(reehdus @ Sep 5 2012, 10:08 AM)
I think finishing 8th and reaching two cup finals is turning around the club, yes. Especially comparing the way we played under Kenny to Hodgson. The bigger name player moves stopped once we became a midtable club, i.e. when Hodgson took over. Whoever thought he had the pedigree to manage Liverpool was sadly mistaken. People keep bringing up the money side of things but come on, if FSG was really a shrewd business group, they wouldn't have sanctioned the buys. I don't think Kenny is to blame. And it's also nice to see how people conveniently forget Kenny also brought in Suarez and Enrique.
I agree, following the matches I thought there was a world of difference. But then they sacked KD and here we are back at square one, or should I say square -1 considering we only have a 19 man squad now.
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I never quite understood Hodgson's appointment despite him taking Fulham to the Europa Cup final. His away record was appalling and he never showed the steely mentality required by a big club manager. Although Rodgers is way younger, you can feel charisma oozing from him and after reading his interviews, you get a sense that he is determined to do it his way and he displays no fear. He almost sent Raheem Sterling home from our tour in the US after the young lad continuously interrupted his debriefing (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2194616/Liverpools-Raheem-Sterling-barracked-Brendan-Rodgers.html). Whether he'll still be here come end of the season or not, I can at least respect Rodgers for the man that he is.

Hodgson's biggest contribution was Raul Mereiles who was quite easily our player of the season before we sold him.

In terms of FSG sanctioning Kenny's buys, I'm sure you're right, however FSG had very little understanding of the game and the transfer market at the time, hence why they appointed Comolli as Director of Football to advise them on such matters. His appointment in itself was a surprise given his spell at Spurs but axing him clearly showed that whilst Kenny may have suggested which players to buy, Comolli had the final word. Both of them made a mistake but the person who had the last say bit the bullet in the end.

What I find dodgy about Kenny's sacking is this. In his letter, John Henry reiterated that they are looking long term and that it will take some years to re-establish us as a force. This came in light of our inability to sign a striker after the close of the transfer window, and our recent run of poor results. He even suggested that we may have to move backwards to move forward. The question then is, if Rodgers is unable to improve on our league position, will he be retained? Henry said the same things about time and planning for the future when Kenny was at the helm and after just one season, he got the sack. This suggests that regardless of what he says, Rodgers will go if he cannot at least match Kenny's last league finish. I for one would like to see him retained even if he doesn't because I think we need some continuity. We aren't cultivating success the same way the likes of Chelsea and City are. John Henry has already said we aren't going to splurge and pay over the market rate. Therefore, we need continuity and consistency and I say whether this season is regarded as a failure or not, we should persist with Rodgers at least until the end of his contract.

QUOTE(Cloud0890 @ Sep 5 2012, 10:26 AM)
If memory serves me right this problem goes way back to Rafa's last season after the sale of Xabi Alonso. Deprived of his creativity and passing range we were struggling to score goals but still able to do decent because we still have the Torres-Gerrard partnership although declining in form but still effective. Then injury problems to Torres severely affected his form especially after returning from WC '10. The situation worsen when Hodgson encourages long ball defensive tactics that drained every last bit of creativity we had in our team. Torres never recovered from his dip in form, was sold. Gerrard too was having injury problems of his own. So there we have it, Xabi our best playmaker sold, we are a one-two man team in Gerrard and Torres, injured and sold. Who do we have left to lead the team???


Your sequence of events seem about right.

QUOTE(Cloud0890 @ Sep 5 2012, 10:26 AM)
This is where Kenny and Comolli failed badly. They weren't sacked because we weren't playing good football, they were sacked because of their shambolic transfer dealings which directly affected our on-field performance. They were given a huge amount of transfer funds that was meant to strengthen our weakening squad, a squad deprived of star players which every club needs to lead the team. They brought in Henderson, Downing and Carroll as if these big money buys are as good as Xabi, Stevie and Fernando. Had they made better purchases I'm sure the team would've gotten much better results as evident of our improving passing play under KK.


If I understand you correctly, you agree that the team was looking more positive and we played some decent footy, only to be let down by poor players? Thing is if the problem was only the latter, why not just appoint a new Director of Football to oversee signings? I think Kenny was sacked because FSG didn't care if we played good footy or not. In the end it was down to the results. If we lost a game, we lost, regardless of how we lost. It's not my money invested in the club and it's easy for me to say this, but if you ask me, how we lost does matter. The fact that we played well despite losing is a positive.

QUOTE(Cloud0890 @ Sep 5 2012, 10:26 AM)
Saying that we can't make big name buys for the likes of Hazard, Mata etc. is nonsense, if you have 100+ million to spend on superstar players they will come even if we are lingering in midtable because we are spending on quality players and they know its gonna propel us upwards and on a personal level they wanna play with big name players too. Ask any of our signings now they will say they are looking forward to playing alongside Gerrard and Suarez, does Carroll, Downing and Henderson give us that same appeal? Man City did just that! Signing superstar players sends a signal and one will lead to another like a snowball effect.


The reason we aren't signing superstars isn't just down to us not being an attractive destination for them, what with no Champions League football and all.
1) Trimming the wage bill - Signing superstars isn't just about shelling out a huge transfer fee. You have to pay them exuberant wages each week. Ask Yaya Toure how much he's on. He's a superstar an an amazing player but earns the combined amount of 4-5 average first teamers.
2) FFP - The club needs to be profitable and a high wage bill is the main reason clubs like Chelsea and Man City were in the red last season, despite winning trophies.

vreis
post Sep 5 2012, 11:41 AM

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Looks like I'm not alone in seeing that we're unlucky last year. Sure we're never going to challenge for the crown, but in converting half of the strikes that hit post/bar/stanchion, I'm sure we'll be thereabout jostling for top 4. Actually I see good football in KD team, perhaps not every match but most, in fact most of the match I watch we mostly bossed the game just to let down by poor finishing. As a matter of fact would like to see how this season will shape for the team under KD. But at last most just seeing the result not justifying the spending, hence someone have to go.
Therefore I cant brain when ppl said KD tactical knowledge even worse than Rodgers....really ????doh.gif

P/S: I still think FFP is just a scaremongering tactic by Platini. Doubt he'll have the balls to exclude RM/Barca/Ski

This post has been edited by vreis: Sep 5 2012, 11:42 AM
murishige
post Sep 5 2012, 11:53 AM

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I agree on we were unlucky last season, if only we finished our chances we'd be the contender for 4th.

There's also myth about Downing, he didn't have a bad season. He created many chances but the problem was the finishing. Well like Duke said, if you only watched the highlight you wouldn't know.
maranello55
post Sep 5 2012, 11:55 AM

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QUOTE(dillonyong @ Sep 5 2012, 09:59 AM)
3 games already and we can see the apparent weakness in our defence in handling opponents' quick counter attack. We are very exposed at the back and we are toothless upfront. Our passing is still suspicious and we are doing very badly in a 1 on 1 situation. Nowadays, whenever we have players on a 1 on 1 situation with the goalkeeper, I really dont fancy us scoring, even in penalty because of lack of confidence. The team morale is low.
*
also skrtel backpass and Reina 2 faulty saves
dillonyong
post Sep 5 2012, 11:57 AM

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QUOTE(murishige @ Sep 5 2012, 11:53 AM)
I agree on we were unlucky last season, if only we finished our chances we'd be the contender for 4th.

There's also myth about Downing, he didn't have a bad season. He created many chances but the problem was the finishing. Well like Duke said, if you only watched the highlight you wouldn't know.
*
I watched most of the matches last season, banging my sofa and table till it is almost broken. While I agree we played well on most occasions and were unlucky, I have to disagree with the Downing part. He was predictable and he keeps losing possession easily by trying too much. His crosses were nowhere near the targeted players most of the time and he scoffed his shots like rugby.

As what I said last season, Downing is drowning the team.
vreis
post Sep 5 2012, 12:03 PM

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QUOTE(dillonyong @ Sep 5 2012, 11:57 AM)
I watched most of the matches last season, banging my sofa and table till it is almost broken. While I agree we played well on most occasions and were unlucky, I have to disagree with the Downing part. He was predictable and he keeps losing possession easily by trying too much. His crosses were nowhere near the targeted players most of the time and he scoffed his shots like rugby.

As what I said last season, Downing is drowning the team.
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Actually tot Downing did his job, ie to send in crosses, but there's nobody attacking the crosses bar AC who we're mostly heavily marked most of the time. Downing is a 1 trick pony so its pointless expecting him to be a flying winger though he is a disappointment but he's not as useless as ppl put (based on last season). But he did put some decent crosses. Prob was & is there's no one attacking crosses unlike some other teams that have 3 or 4 players swarming to attack crosses.


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