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 Public Mutual v4, Public/PB series funds

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j.passing.by
post Jan 9 2013, 11:48 AM

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QUOTE(1282009 @ Jan 8 2013, 07:11 PM)
Thanks for the reply. Is the RM25 switching out (after 90 days) is charged regardless of the number of units to be switched?
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Yes, it is a flat RM25; if it is out (of any funds) and into a bond/equity fund.
Cost for 1000 units or 100,000 units is the same.

And if switching 100,000 units - most likely it is free as the investor would likely to have more than RM100k invested (I believed it has increased to 120k recently), and would have 18 free switches a year.

QUOTE(aoisky @ Jan 8 2013, 09:56 PM)
Public Far-East Property & Resorts Fund hit 0.3004 the highest since the fund being available in market almost 5 year plus. Any idea what trigger this fund price up
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Its price jump 1.04% from Friday to Monday.
Monday was 1st day back to work for many people...

QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Jan 8 2013, 10:24 PM)
......

BEWARE - IMHO, the REITs pricing VS NAPS (Net Asset Per Share) or NAV & DY% is getting bad - ie. paying more for something less (DY% or discount on NAPS/NAV). Personally, i'm going after general BRICs - still ada value below norm in my personal valuation.
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Wong Sifu, thanks for the advice. Switched in early last month... up nearly 5%, with help from monday's jump... dropped back 0.27% today (Tuesday's price)... intending to go heavy back into equity this year.

Portfolio was 60% bonds, 40% equities... planning to switch slowly by mid of the year to 20% : 80%... with 40-50% in real estate/property fund (currently about 30%).

Hope the snake will bring more luck this year. LOL. smile.gif


This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jan 9 2013, 11:51 AM
j.passing.by
post Jan 9 2013, 08:35 PM

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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Jan 9 2013, 02:28 PM)
I plan to do 60% bond, 40% equity (current 70% bond, 30% equity)..

Or should go 40-60, since everywhere predict this year equity will outperform bond...
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Have to be careful not to mix-up equity and bonds as mentioned by stock analysts with unit trust funds in equities and bonds...

The top bond funds are closed for fresh investments; and last year, something like 99.9% of their equity funds (in Public Mutual) outperform their bond funds. Average gain in equity funds for the year was about 11%; it ranged from 4 to 20+ percent. So still want to leave money in bonds?

This year should be same or better... but then again, almost every "professionals" got 2012 wrong.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-04/a...alls-wrong.html

==============

I think I better caution other readers (especially those new to this forum) that the percentage weightings in my funds were not meant for comparison or taken as a guide or benchmark. It is just empty chit-chat and also to put into words my own thoughts to encourage myself to follow through... You and me might not be in the same age group, mostly possibly with different financial background, different financial assets, different financial debts, etc. etc.; so what I do is most likely not suitable to you and your financial health...


j.passing.by
post Jan 17 2013, 12:01 PM

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yes, PMO is a little bit dumb and can only handle switches in 'units'. Maybe a bit too kamsiap to opt for a smarter system? As it is, we can never get neat round numbers...

rm8800 is so nice to start a new fund; but it could become rm8804.44. LOL.

=================

On the minimal units to switch, why do it if it is just several hundred ringgits and the switching fee is then no less than 5% of the switched out amount?

Say, invested amount rm5000, now increased by 10% to rm5500. To switch out rm500?

ok, we take out rm500 and pay rm25 as switching fee.

After deducting the switching fee, the switched out rm500 becomes rm475. Let's say, the nav price drops by 5% the next month, and the remaining rm5000 becomes rm4750. So, the total now is rm475 + rm4750 = rm5225.

But if we left it untouched, rm5500 drops 5% in following month to rm5225. End result is the same.

But remember this is PM unit trust funds we talking about. 5% or 10% in a month or a couple of months is a very volatile movement. (PM is conservative in nature, and their best funds are usually the conservative ones.)

Putting several hundreds of ringgits into a bond fund and watch it grow, is like watching wet paint drying. And it is not too often is there a bull rally... (and you're holding the right equity fund, LOL)

I'd rather switch out the whole amount (do a 'full' switch rather than a 'partial' switch) when the going is good; especially when it has gained 5% or 10% in a month or two, it can also drop 5-10%...

In short, in terms of percentages, anything around 5% is too high and painful to pay for switching at minimal units...

Lastly, IMHO, there are at least 3 stages to an investment: savings and building a nest egg, monitoring and growing the nest egg, maintaining the nest egg for regular income, exiting....

If you're in the initial stage of a savings plan and making regular savings, I don't think there is any real need of making switches. If it does happen, maybe the investment strategy is not right for the savings plan. The investment strategy is most probably wrong if needed to make switches at minimal units.

j.passing.by
post Jan 17 2013, 12:16 PM

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QUOTE(mois @ Jan 17 2013, 11:32 AM)
Just look at Public Far-East Property & Resort.

The rally just wont stop. Wonder if it is still the right time to top up? The property sectors are very diversified across the countries.
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Far-East... but looking into its year-end report, it is in sing, mal, indo & thai.

It seems that I am not receiving any financial year-end reports lately by mail (since July?)... did PM stop it? The e-reports in their website is no good - they don't have the last few pages showing the list of invested companies unlike their 'booklet' report by mail.

j.passing.by
post Jan 17 2013, 04:20 PM

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QUOTE(gen_ius84 @ Jan 17 2013, 01:52 PM)
j.passing.by, my thoughts exactly which is why I enquired the min amount that can be left in the equity. Little impact if small units switched as compared to the switching fee, but then isn't there 4 times free switching in a year? Or that is for cimb funds?
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It was 2 slightly different subjects... yours leaving behind a minimum amount in a fund probably occurs for a nostalgic reason; 1000 units at the highest price of about rm1 (in a bond fund) is about rm1000.

If we go by the lowest price around rm0.15 (in an equity fund), then it is only rm150. Even if the equity fund can rally up to 100%, the gain is only rm150. (And how long do you think it will take to rally up by 100%?) Switch and pay rm25? No, it would be better to "repurchase" and pay zero exit fee. So it's mainly for nostalgic reason if nothing else...

(Anyway, it is stated in the prospectus that the manager can force a "full" repurchase of the entire fund if a partial repurchase is done leaving less than 1000 units behind. Also any distribution amount less than RM100 will be reinvested instead of them taking the trouble to issue a cash-out.)

There is no free switches in PM - unless you have put in at least RM120,000 in funds that had incur a service charge of at least 3%...

"Little impact if small units switched as compared to the switching fee.."
I don't quite understand... "small units" as in less than RM500? It would have a big impact on the total investment in the long term if we keep switching often and paying around 5% for each switch. A 5% gain is not easy to come by...

0.75% gain (which is the cost of jumping out of an equity fund, less than 90 days; or at minimal RM50) is also not easy.... unless you have the midas touch... smile.gif

j.passing.by
post Jan 17 2013, 07:51 PM

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QUOTE(birdman13200 @ Jan 17 2013, 07:27 PM)
Did PM send u fund report by email? I only hv weekly review report by email. That report is different with what we can download from PMO?
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No, I was referring to the year-end financial statements - this is the link http://www.publicmutual.com.my/OurProducts...EquityFund.aspx

I used to get them by snail mail or post... also the half year interim reports... got a whole stack of these booklets, which is in 3 languages... and at the last several pages as notes to the financial statements, the whole long list of companies/securities/warrants, etc. invested with details of cost, market value & percentage of the entire fund.

The financial statements in their website is missing these notes showing this long list of companies...

j.passing.by
post Jan 17 2013, 08:25 PM

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QUOTE(birdman13200 @ Jan 17 2013, 08:08 PM)
Do u hv PMO account? I just check my fund report, the financial statement that u refer to is partial of the complete report. If u login to PMO and download the complete report inside it, u will see the company listing in the complete report.
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Thanks... yes, found it... never occur to me to look within PMO. doh.gif

j.passing.by
post Jan 17 2013, 08:59 PM

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QUOTE(birdman13200 @ Jan 17 2013, 08:30 PM)
wc. I think PM try to limit the report to PMO account owner, not everyone can see the report publicly.
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Reports for funds closing 30 Nov not there... after 1.5 months... I think they were faster by post. smile.gif

j.passing.by
post Jan 18 2013, 08:53 PM

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QUOTE(sunshine_tan @ Jan 18 2013, 12:22 AM)
Hai...I always heard about public mutual but not really understand about it.
May I know izit good for us who just start work and wanna hv some investment?
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QUOTE(Alfredkuok01 @ Jan 18 2013, 12:25 AM)
Public mutual no gud,they got no guaranteed return.my parents was bought 2years ago,but the agents told my parents sure earn money!!!but few month ago when I check for them their bal r negative!!!!
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Welcome to the forum...

Is Public Mutual good or not, and suitable for those just joining the rat race?
Yes and no.

To me, it is a financial vehicle to place my savings just like any other financial vehicle like savings account, fixed deposits, and EPF. It is a unit trust fund - a fund that pools our money to invest in financial instruments in the share market, bonds, warrants, securities, etc.

"Investment" has several connotations; as in investing in a business, or making savings. It is the latter context that would be relevant here - making savings.

We are building savings and placing them in appropriate financial vehicle to hedge the savings against inflation. It wouldn't be any good if we just keep our savings under our pillows - the monies will slowly loose their value against inflation over time.

Yes, unit trust funds unlike fixed deposits or EPF, do not have any guaranteed returns. Anyone who told you otherwise had given you false information.

To understand whether this particular savings vehicle is good or not, you will need to know your personal purpose and motive for making the savings, how much you can and want to save, and how long to build up the savings.

You should be able to get more and detail info from Public Mutual website and other investment blogs.

j.passing.by
post Jan 18 2013, 09:26 PM

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QUOTE(1282009 @ Jan 18 2013, 12:57 AM)
Hi guys, anyone bought the PRS growth fund? What's the potential/risk? I understand this is tax deductable.
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QUOTE(David83 @ Jan 18 2013, 07:53 AM)
All PRS from approved PRS providers are eligible for tax relief.
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did not thoroughly checked them out but it seemed like some of the them piggyback on other (existing) funds... so the potential/risk should be the same.

yes, good for the tax relief, and only if wanted to start another portfolio... half here, half there would not be good; can't play around and do switches between them...

to earn the tax relief, need to put up the money first, then request tax refund the next year?!!!

beware of the penalties of early exit... don't think you can bluff hasil by cancelling the PRS after taking the tax relief.


j.passing.by
post Jan 19 2013, 11:57 AM

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QUOTE(1282009 @ Jan 19 2013, 01:04 AM)
For me, I plan for long term investment, in this case until retirement ie. 55 years old. I was told we do not need to "subscribe" or buy every year which is something good as it does not incurr commitment like those insurance investment link. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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the tax relief is only for 10 years... we don't know whether it would be extended or not... it would be better to take advantage of it every year instead of skipping some years; maybe switch to a more conservative scheme if you think the market is at a level too high?

just as there are some series of steps in building savings, ie. savings account, fixed deposit, ASB (if eligible), then unit trusts... if solely to have more tax relief, another way is to request boss to readjust salary and pay more EPF on the employer's portion - it is usually 12%, some (enlightened) companies contributes 15%, but it is allow up to 19%. And employer contribution into EPF is non-income and not taxed.

say, current salary rm5000/mth, and employer's epf is 12%.
readjust it to rm4746 and employer's epf to 18%.
Employer is paying out same total amount (salary + epf)... but now, there is less rm254 x 12mths = rm3048/year and had reduced taxable income by same amount.

1. Slightly lower salary = slightly less epf payment from you, net savings (and going into epf) is rm226 every month.
2. You can take out from epf for investment into unit trusts. So your money is not really stuck there. And if into PM, enjoy paying lower service charge...

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jan 19 2013, 11:59 AM
j.passing.by
post Jan 19 2013, 02:15 PM

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PBDYNAF (PB Dynamic Fund) and PBINDOBF (PB Indonesian Balanced Fund).

- they are PB series. Public bank staff doing field work?

- PB dynamic just launched 6 mths ago. A bit different from the usual equity fund in that it allow the fund manager to hold equities in the range from 98% down to 30%. The range for other funds is usually down to 60%, though lately there is caveat stating the fund manager can hold equities lower than what is stated in their prospectus...

- PB Indonesian is classified as a moderate fund by PM.

- PM consultants are not financial advisers. And neither am I. It is like going into a pharmacy or chinese medical shop and asking them what is the best ointment or vitamin pills when feeling not well or tired. They are not doctors - who would only prescribe you medicine after the whole barrage of blood tests, sonar scans, etc. etc.

There is no one size fits all. So can't say for sure what is the best advice or best fund to hold... when we all have different motives and discretionary incomes.

- generally, if in the twenties age group, should be more aggressive and less conservative than older age group. It is so often we hear stories that one should have bought PB or Genting shares 20-30 years ago... well, there will be same stories 20 years from now.

- should also look up Dollar Cost Averaging method of investing...



j.passing.by
post Jan 19 2013, 11:12 PM

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QUOTE(birdman13200 @ Jan 19 2013, 06:15 PM)
From an employee view point, the basic cut may be look same in total income gain.
But for an employer, it may not hv same financial account especially that involve tax.
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No difference to the employer as the total labour/salary expenditure is the same, and is allow to contribute up to 19% for corporate tax computation.

For the employee, it is lower basic pay, and for those with higher incomes (managerial level) who don't have/claim overtime anyway...

The 3-7% increase to epf will make a big different over time from the extra contribution per month and compounding interest factor... not to mention the lower taxable income.

Best time to negotiate with boss is when there is a promotion... the company accountant would know what to do, but you must know how much to take out from your pay, and should take into account your lower monthly epf contribution and tax deduction with the lower basic.





j.passing.by
post Jan 20 2013, 05:48 PM

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QUOTE(birdman13200 @ Jan 19 2013, 11:19 PM)
Did u do that with ur company?
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I rather not answer that as there is an element of suspicious of me bullshitting here, in this serious thread, behind your questions. smile.gif

Anyway, a simple yes or no would not be of help to anyone... and it is best to verify all claims in the internet with other sources before accepting anything as facts.

The max. 19% I only learned recently from some financial blogs (yes, there is a couple of good financial blogs written by M'sians out there), and it's more or less verify by those new PRS sales pitch urging employers to buy for their staff using the same 19% figure....

j.passing.by
post Jan 20 2013, 05:53 PM

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=================

Alright. Another long story (or tall tale... you decide.)
(It's raining outside and I have nowhere to go....)

As mentioned previously many months ago, my portfolio was in shambles... took me like 6 months and 22 switches to get it right (or what I perceived to be right) after many to and fro, jumping in and out here and there (and maybe still in nowhere land!). Burnt over rm700 in fees alone.

I think I finally know what brilliant investors meant when they say not mix emotions in trading shares. Well, to me, switching unit trust funds can also be "trading" if we do it very frequently.

So I had identified one particular fund that's look good with "future so bright, we got to wear shades" category. So I plonked in 30%.

I have immediate doubts, whether it was right thing to do, the very instant I pressed the confirm button.

Yes, it indeed has a 'bright future' and I was right! It went up over 9% in a month, within 30 days. Hurray!!!

But... yeah, there's a but... I went in a bit too early. The fund went down before climbing up, up, and up...

The mistake was I put in too much and got "emotional" when it went down.

It was hitting -3%, and with 30% of the entire portfolio riding on it, the lost went into 4 figures rather quickly. Somewhere inside me, I knew it will climb back up from the hole... it's not burial ground yet... but I can't stand the red figure, so I chop 1/3 of it and chuck it back into bonds.

The 2nd mistake... yes, there's another mistake.

The fund did start to climb up, after what looks like ages and many, many grey hairs later; it was back to almost par to what I paid. This was where the 2nd mistake happened.

I was feeling a bit tired (another strong "emotion") of waiting for it to climb further, although the charts seems to say that it will climb much further; and as I spotted another "future so bright..." fund, I switched another 1/3 out into the newly "future so bright..." fund.

On hindsight (yeah, always on hindsight)... I should have switched out from a bond fund, and hold a higher percentage in equities.

So after pulling out 2/3 of the fund, it went up like rocket over 9% in a span of 30+ days... end of story. doh.gif

Moral of story: you only know what is your true risk appetite after leaving the table.

(Name of the "future so bright..." funds: Natural Resources and Far-East Property.)

j.passing.by
post Jan 23 2013, 07:40 PM

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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Jan 23 2013, 05:49 PM)
Yes.. always need to pay the sc. Some bonds do not have sc only, money market will be 0 sc.
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Sorry, need to correct above.

There is a service charge for every new purchase/investment, regardless whether it is through the office/agent or via the online service.

Equity funds 5.5%. If it is an EPF approved fund and the money is taken out from EPF for the purchase, 3%.

Both bond and money market funds are 0.25%.
If latter you switch it into a equity fund, there is no switching fee but there is a service charge of 5.5% (or 3% if it is EPF scheme.)

=====================

And for further clarification on these terms, which you will often see in PM, "low-load" & "loaded" units.
The units you get by paying the lower service charge of 0.25% is known as "low-load" units.
The units of the new fund you get after paying 5.5% (or 3%) is called 'loaded' units (and which Mutual Gold Qualifying Points is given.)


j.passing.by
post Jan 23 2013, 07:49 PM

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Now you can restart the debate why the high service charge, after knowing the ropes and doing it yourself online... biggrin.gif

j.passing.by
post Jan 30 2013, 05:24 PM

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Wong Sifu and other sifus as well,

Anyone done "transfer" to another party?

If I'm having units (and especially if the fund is closed), it would be a waste to just sell/repurchase them back to PM.

"A unitholder may fully or partially transfer his units in the fund to another
unitholder subject to terms and conditions. An administration fee of RM25
will be charged for each transaction."

- Is the above administration fee the only fee to pay?
- Is there any club/forum doing transfer or private trading of units? Maybe PM me if necessary...

Please note I'm not selling or soliciting... just curious to know.


j.passing.by
post Feb 2 2013, 12:23 PM

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Is the nav price a good indication of performance?

I'm no financial guru, but it seemed that it does have some merits and a quick way in narrowing down the long list of Public/PB funds to invest. See below, the latest price list as at 30/01/2013. The rightmost figure is their percentage over a (presumed) debut price of RM0.25.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

- PB Dynamic Allocation is not in the list as its debut nav price is RM1.00.

- those funds over rm0.50; they are over ten years old; local funds...steady growth over the years... maybe not performing well currently...

- those funds under rm0.20; better watch out even though they are on a steep rise currently; looks like they have not rebounded up with the benchmark since current share markets are at record high levels. When a nav price had fellen 50%, it will need to rise 100% to reach back its original level. Walking down is easier than walking up...

- those just below 0.25 to 0.40; this is the interesting segment to look into... it is a big segment, but it can be segregated down into local, foreign, public and/or pb funds...

And below is the top 10 horses for Jan...; fastest horse at the top.
Public Far-East Property & Resorts Fund
Public Indonesia Select Fund
Public Australia Equity Fund
Public Far-East Select Fund
Public Regional Sector Fund
Public South-East Asia Select Fund
Public Natural Resources Equity Fund
Public Global Select Fund
Public Singapore Equity Fund
Public Far-East Telco & Infrastructure Fund

Top 5 PB horses for Jan...
PB China Australia Equity Fund
PB China Asean Equity Fund
PB Asean Dividend Fund
PB Asia Real Estate Income Fund
PB Indonesia Balanced Fund
PB China Pacific Equity Fund

Public SEA Select and PB Asean appeared not affected by the sharp drop in the local market on 21st with many of the local funds dropped 2% or more. And all of them, except Smallcap, Islamic Opportunities, and Strategic Smallcap, is in the negative for the month.

Now, which fund to select and hold for the next 3 months? hmm.gif


j.passing.by
post Feb 2 2013, 02:07 PM

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gark, good counter arguments there... but any better way to narrow down the field before probing further into each of them?

For reasons only known to myself, am already in the stable and sticking to it (based on silly notion of "too big to fail..." LOL)... so the next best move is selecting the top horses in the stable... looking some quick small gains for a small portion of the portfolio for the short term; but it must withstand a riding period of 3 months to avoid the 90 days penalty fee if change horses in mid stream.

Yeah, some funds have specially created benchmarks and are skewed... but if they can't even beat their own benchmarks, I don't think I need to consider them further.

===================

Another story (or tall tail, you decide...)

Had previously held Public SEA and PB Asean; and watching them closely for the past several months, thinking they were closely linked to the local market; so the 21st event proved I was wrong, and see the need to have some units in them again, so I switched some units into SEA Select and poor heart skipped a beat when it closed 1.09% up... thank goodness it did not go down the next day but up another 0.84%.

Now, praying no bad news will foul things up for the next 90 days (LOL)... I don't mean GE13, as I'm not holding local funds except for bonds, which seemed to be dropping fast and the money market funds seem better than bonds.



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