Potential ISPs will still follow Unifi's model since they are the owner of the HSBB network. None of them will try to do something funny like routed multicast or encapsulated DHCP assigning with a passive optical network. That'll bring extreme headaches to come. It might get them into serious security issues on a public passive optical network as well with ID spoofing.

That is the extra benefit of point to point active ethernet that PON will never get to have.

A routed approach on a passive optical network will lead to many vulnerabilities.

Yeah, the FXS port on BTU only works for UniFi because TM owns the BTU. TM will not allow other ISPs to run their voice service on the BTU, hence the Maxis approach of VoIP. Same goes for IPTV. That's why I'm saying L2 segregation will have to go all the way to the router because of this access network sharing arrangement

Have you seen any ISP that encourages open usage of any routers on their residential service? I don't think so, eventually it's not technical, it's about business. Monopolizing every part of it is what they will always try to do. Easy for them to support, more profit for them.


This post has been edited by gogetter83: Jul 29 2012, 06:26 PM

Because there is no need for the end-user to know things like that. Only one port needed to be used on the BTU, and its the one that the router should be connected to. I think D-Link and TP-Link already have their own UNIFI-certified routers out there, all you have to do is to connect things to the router and you are done.

Sheesh, you can do that already if you have the money for that. If I so desire and if the service is available at my place, I can get myself 3 VIP20 accounts, then connect them to a single Cisco or Mikrotik router and do channel bonding with them. I believe nothing in the ToS will prevent me from doing so. Point me to the specific section in their ToS that forbid channel bonding from being done.

I can do so already with Streamyx service, so why not with Unifi?

I will also get of course 3 cordless phones and 3 IPTV STB that I will probably never use.

You can already do so today, so what's the problem? Do you actually want to replace the POS DIR-615 with yet another POS router?

Can you give me an example of your 'favourite router'? Don't tell me it is something like D-Link DSL-2542B or ASUS RT-N15.

Say I'm at the clinic dispensary and you're supposed to pass me my medication from your room which you won't let me in to see inside, you don't want to tell me what you're going to pass me and which hole you're going to use? Then what's is this supposed to mean? You want me to figure out myself by self discovery or just take whatever you throw out?

The least you can do is tell your customers what VLAN ID is bound to which port and what they are used for. Not leave them in the dark.
There are those who are more knowledgeable who wants to configure their own switches/routers will find this very useful for their work.

Then the T&C you signed will include 3 times the install visits, 3 sets of equipment and 3 separate billing?
Are you talking about customized arrangment by sitting down and discussing with a TM manager?
That's an entirely different story and I'm not sure he'll allow you to do so unless you're willing to pay for the leasing of a single fibre strand all to yourself. Again this is isolated rare case of provisioning not meant for the masses.

Please la not that kind of cheap stuff. I know you're going to say the expensive ones will have VLAN untagging capabilities so what's my problem but no, what if I choose not to complicate things and have them turned off?

The VLAN IDs is very well known, and all 3 of them are bound on one single Ethernet port at the BTU. If you use UNIFI-certified routers, you do not even need to know what the IDs is. This is no different really when you buy a STreamyx-certified modem router and get it to work without even knowing the VPI/VCI of 0 and 35.

Yes, 3 set of equipments, 3 set of everything, and 3 installation visits (which can be reduced to one if you ordered at one go). 3 bills too. Is there any proof you have that disallow you from having more than 1 UNIFI account in a household? Nothing I have heard about that one. What is so wrong with having 3 UNIFI accounts on a single house?


Because you want to complicate things by wanting to do VLAN untagging at the BTU level. The current UNIFI setup is OK as it is, if IPTV and VOIP is taken into account. I know already you won't want to answer this question hehehehe. Come on, give me an example of your 'favorite router'.

what's the problems?

my friend already installed with 3 different services (UniFi, Maxis, P1) simultaneously from 1 BTU.
BTU port 1 for unifi, 2 for maxis, 3 for P1..

The intention of this thread is to ask WHY would TM want to lock up the BTU and at the same time keep the VLAN settings of the ports away from the user while requiring them to have a router that have VLAN tagging capability that complies with them?

-Then you have answers coming in and say it's because the BTU can be used by many ISPs who shares the same network with it so it must be locked up to allow the provisioning of multi ISPs on a single BTU allowed only for 1 household.

-Next another person is telling me that his close friend is using 3 different ISP internet accounts on 3 different ports of the BTU by gaining exclusive access to the BTU changing its settings inside.

I'm not saying that router tagging is a problem but why complicate a set up by having additional hardware when you can do it with less boxes?

You can already configure your BTU to provide the necessary ports and accomplish VLAN untagging, I don't mind if it's because you want to provide a wireless access point and internet sharing with the additional router. But why get the router to untag the VLAN services when you can do it already with the 1st device which is the BTU?

I know with Unifi, there are already compliant routers being sold that comes preconfigured to work with Unifi, but how about the other HSBB ISPs?
They need to rely on their routers instead for the FXS phone ports as well as configure their own routers accordingly to work with the different VLAN IDs instead.

Is this some sort of a dirty monopoly strategy that TM keeps itself from the other players? They maintain better support and keeps a simpler setup for themselves in order to stay ahead of competition?

Why am I asking this? It's because there's no official guidelines and VLAN ID lists for all the different ISPs just in case the other ISP users want to configure their routers. They need to keep playing the guessing game, they are stucked with a crap router supplied by their ISP, they are getting different results in different areas. They don't even know which port is configured to have what at the BTU suchas which has port binding to which VLAN ID, which has it tagged etc.

I am not bothered if you can configure your BTU to gain access to 3 different ISPs on 3 different ports or even bind them all because it's ILLEGAL to do so. How you managed to gain access into it is also not a concern probably because it's done by inside staffs.

The only interesting thing I want to know now is what is being pumped out of those ports that you secretly keep in your locked BTU for users to use and why can't you just make BTU pump out clean ethernet packets stripped of their VLAN tags from those ports to make everything simple for everyone?

What is the problem? Your friend has broken into other people's property and did something illegal.

How you did it I don't want to know but I know the user has all the rights to make use of the ports of the BTU assigned for internet with their own devices. Yes you might find life easier with Unifi, but other ISP users are not.

What are you going to do about it Maxis, P1, Celcom, RedTone about your wholesale leasing from the incumbant HSBB wholesale provider? They selling you something and held back added advantages to themselves to downplay competition?

If VLAN untagging is done at the router level, if a user want to have more than one HSBB account (let say, 3 UNIFI accounts) he/she needs to have 3 fibre cables and 3 BTUs to the house. This is extremely inefficient. Why do 3 cable runs if one run is enough for everyone? Why is that you want to complicate things with having more BTUs when one is enough? Please answer this question: why is that you want people who wants multiple HSBB accounts to have extra BTU boxes? If VLAN untagging is done at the BTU level, and I want to have 3 UNIFI accounts, I will end up with 12 boxes (3 BTUs, 3 POS routers, 3 STBs and 3 VOIP phones). If VLAN untagging is done at router level, there will be only 10 boxes (1 BTUs 3 POS routers, 3 STBs and 3 VOIP phones). I can cut down the router count to one if I were to do load balancing or channel bonding.

FACT: Your method will cause more boxes. The current setup doesn't.

There are also Maxis-compliant routers out there, dunno about P1 ones though. But in the future, I believe the UNIFI/Maxis/P1 routers will be more widespread once the coverage increases. It is just like when Streamyx first become available, the modems is rare at first and all you can get is the Ericsson one, now everyone and its dog produced one. Surely you are around in the likes of tmnet.communities when the HSI project first being beta tested back then. Oh no, you didn't....

Another complaint of yours is about VLAN IDs being a top supersecret information (it doesn't really - as if the ISPs think there are no people out there who will not find out the info straight away) and not being made available publicly. My argument against this is that people doesn't need to know those info, mainly because of the reasons mentioned above. People can go out there and buy Streamyx/Jaring router modems and just connect it to the phone line without even having to change VPI/VCI values. This is already the case for UNIFI and Maxis (again, dunno for P1). The selection is sparse at the moment, but the same also happens when Streamyx was introduced.


Citation needed! Else, I will just assume that you are talking out of your ass here. Show me how is it illegal to have more than one Internet service in a household. As long as you have the money, you can do so.

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Added on July 30, 2012, 7:35 pmYou better has any proof that having 3 services in one BTU is illegal. There are times I wonder whether you really know what you are talking about.

This post has been edited by asellus: Jul 30 2012, 07:35 PM

This is what I am talking about exactly. Kudos mate

As an end user there is no need for me to know all these information , all I want is a unifi-capable modem which handles. If people want to get their hands dirty , this is why we have communities like LYN , whereby geeks come together and explore the device and post up guides and hack our existing device to work with it. Do you think an average user out there would want to do the same ? I don't think so

When UniFi first came there weren't any compatible 3rd party routers , now you have people like ASUS and TP-Link making em UniFi compatible. Plug it in and enter your unifi details and bam its taken care of. I don't need to sit and worry about creating bridges , untagging this , untagging that , writing some script , etc...

TM has made it clear that BTU belongs to them. I don't know if it's illegal to access and gather info about the BTU setup, but definitely they don't need to let you know how the BTU is setup, they are not obligated to do so because those are not user information. They should let you know your access username and password, because that's pertaining to each user, but network setup? Don't need to.

I don't know if they are doing it for the wrong reasons, but TM's approach is correct as that simplifies open network concept. They make it clear that demarcation point is the BTU and segregation of pipe are up till that point. If they un-tag the VLANs at the BTU, other ISPs will have trouble to offer all service on the same access network. L2 segregation is quite necessary all the way to BTU.

Almost every ISP that I've worked with does this kind of network setup. If you want to use your own router, no ISP will encourage it because it will put the burden of support on them. When they don't encourage it, why should they give you this information?

This post has been edited by gogetter83: Jul 30 2012, 08:33 PM

This is an easy challenge. Please ask TM to start providing subscribers with the necessary user/passwords needed for accessing their BTUs then. I don't want to start hearing stupid excuses from then for denying me the password saying you can't touch the BTU.

Please allow current Unifi users that have their contracts ending soon or have ended to apply for Maxis Fibre 10mbps. Tell them there's no need to arrange a TM contractor to come to their house. Just have the Maxis technicians come over and give them the new router settings to connect. Oh yeah, can I skip the initial installation charges?

I already have a BTU sitting here ready to just make the switch by just changing configurations. Will I be entitled for further savings because you're not going to give me a new BTU, waive the charges for pulling another new drop line and contractors spending another half a day at my house?

I wish to continue using the DLink DIR-615 for my Maxis service. Do you think the Maxis technician will allow me to keep my new Thompson and continue using my DLink?

Huh, if you already have UNIFI, then want to cancel it and want to have Maxis HSBB, just go ahead and call your Maxis agent to arrange for installation. This is what going to happen:-

1. Maxis contractor will come up to your house and install the router/VOIP.
2. TM contractor will come to your house to reconfigure port 1 to be used with Maxis.
3. You cannot use the DIR-615 anymore because you are cancelling the UNIFI service. You did know right the D-Link did not belong to you? But if you have your own D-Link DIR-615, tell them to configure the router. After all, D-Link doesn't make Maxis-certified router as of today.

Just call your Maxis agent and tell them you want to switch from UNIFI to them (tell them a BTU is already at your house). If they know you already have a BTU, Maxis will make an appointment with TM to reconfigure your BTU to add their VLANs to the BTU, and the Maxis contractor will show up with the router and VOIP and install them. There will be no new cable run to you.

If the Maxis agent tells you otherwise, then you are just getting ripped off.

This sentence is all we that wanted to here right from the very start of this thread.
The ability for the Unifi technician to reconfigure the ports when he makes the appointment to your house.

I would like to know is, can the customer make a simple request to the techncian to leave the tagged option for a particular Internet VLAN ID unchecked to facilitate the unstripping of the VLAN tags inside the BTU itself?

I am most interested in this because it'll allow the customer later to use any router he wants on port 1 without the need have VLAN untagging features. Can? Is that too much of a request to ask?

Are you sure? I've heard that some Unifi users had to pay for their damaged STB and routers after having their getting damaged after a year or so. The BTU is confirmed to be TM's property with a lifetime replacement.

Equipment warranty : Lifetime
Price: RM 500
http://www.tm.com.my/unifi/home/Pages/equipment-BTU.aspx

But the Residential Gateway aka router:

Equipment warranty : 1 year
Price: RM 120.00 (effective 25th April 2012 onwards)
http://www.tm.com.my/unifi/home/Pages/equipment-RG.aspx

STB:
Equipment warranty : 1 year (only for STB)
Price: RM 400.00 (effective 25th April 2012 onwards)
http://www.tm.com.my/unifi/home/Pages/equipment-STB.aspx

The customer will not be able to request that, because it will render the BTU useless for provisioning multi-ISP services. And as I said before, it will cause more boxes to be used.

Oh BTW, multi-ISP services on one BTU is COMPLETELY LEGAL. Therefore, if you so desire, with only one BTU, you can have UNIFI + Maxis + P1 all in one BTU.

Cancel your UNIFI service, even after you exceeded your contract duration, and TM will ask you to return the router, STB and VOIP phone. While the warranty for them isn't unlimited, the devices is still isn't yours.

Your answer is fairly straight forward. At the end it's just all up to the TM installers themselves giving different treatments to their clients. They may choose to do it if you pay more, they want to help you a not or keep it to themselves.
Like they say, "ikut suka hati lah sajelah I suka".

Great, that would mean TM is refusing to entertain replacement claims and at the same time wants to hold the ownership of all the equipments supplied to HSBB users?

Well, if you want to bribe them (illegal, unlike having multiple ISPs in one BTU), you can always do so. Just don't expect it to become SOP.

Nope, TM will entertain your request to replace them, as long as you pay. After all, while you can replace the router yourself, the STB and VOIP devices cannot be replaced easily. If the VOIP use standard like SIP, maybe you can, but how about the STB?

to be honest TM should have leave the VLAN tagging on the BTU itself, and leave the router for user to choose their own router(with an option to supply TM router if the customer is too dumb to get their own router).

D-link 615 cost money, I dont like them but I am FORCE to pay for them when I subscribe any services.

From what I understand, the router, DECT Phone & IPTV STB belongs to the customer after 1 year. If you cancel within the first year, you will have to return them. But after the 1st year, its yours to keep even if you cancel.

Only the BTU belongs to TM and must be returned if you cancel your service.