From understanding the BTU that is in use has the ability to work as a VLAN untagging switch.

If TM is so paranoid about letting users gain access to these BTU which you want them to remain as your termination property, why can't you just untagged the ports on the BTU specifically for internet, TV, and phone allowing users to plug their own HGW, devices and phones to use on them?

Saves you the effort to supply crappy HGW router that requires VLAN untagging and so much complications.

As far as I know, the latest deployments of FTTH in Vietnam etc only supplies a single unit of ONT that comes with 4 port switch/wireless and FXS VoIP phone ports built into a single box.

Can someone explain why?

so that.. if router spoil you still can make phone call

If router spoil, I'll go out and buy a new one to replace instantly.

Phone still works because it's connected to the BTU(ONT or VDSL2 modem) FXS analogue RJ-11 port?

Consumers should be given the freedom to do what they want beyond the BTU ports?

customers are dumb.. nuff said

Like maxis, why da hack need limit us to use router for VoIP function? I see the gpon can VoIP also what? And now they don't let us touch the 850a settings firewalled ..... frustration....I dunno if my problem can solve by getting a new gpon/btu unit...

coz unifi got two kind: one fiber then VDSL...

they want to make thing easy so use same router always... jus the modem is different..(fiber or vdsl) .

if all house using fiber maybe tm will use single box also...
but coz high rise and like that need vdsl.. so need another kind

using router as fixed device always same... and hypptv connected to router.. so config on router is fixed on all unifi

the only difference is modem depend on technology used. simple right?

Because Maxis has no right to access the ONT device, so they have to use everything on the Thompson. If Maxis have access to ONT, we probably be getting DLINK DIR 615 as well..

coz there are user in malaysia use both maxis and tm,

yes,, one unifi and one maxis,, using same fiber..one BTU 2 services, need two different router right

This post has been edited by amirsubhi: Jul 27 2012, 11:02 AM

Doesn't your VDSL2 modem also have 4 ethernet ports + FXS phone port?

I'm talking about VLAN untagging the ethernet packets using the switches on the BTU and leave the rest to the home gateway for routing.

Not only Maxis has no rights over the BTU, even consumers also are not allowed to touch it due to claims that TM reserves the rights over its ownership.

That said, if you don't want users to touch your BTU/modem/media converter/bridge, your customers should at least be allowed to use their equipment on its ports thereafter.

Beyond the ports of the BTU, it's up to the customer to set up their network the way they want it.

That depends on how you configure the BTU and the virtual connections in it.
The extra ports allow you to plug in different devices at the same time depending on your setup inside the BTU.
There si also an alternative method by using a multi WAN load balancing switch. However for simplicity reasons, isps will issue you 2 lines unles they could provide line bonding which is unheard of for fibre internet

I am getting confuse here, does that mean any router will work on the modem? So why don't they allow such? Definitely their controlling right ? I wan to use my own router, to do so I need to change setting of modem right? And this is where they block access to it.

Of course if they strip the VLAN tags away from packets from the BTU(bridge/modem) ports, you can install any router you like beyond them.

Why do they make the home gateway(router) do it instead?

If you can do that aren't you saving the customer 1 less device and see some drastic cost reduction?

In UNIFI/Maxis context, VLAN tagging is used for traffic and service segmentation, and probably QoS purposes too. Without VLAN tagging, if the IPTV, VOIP and general Internet traffic are mixed into one single pipe, guaranteeing reliability for the first two services is going to be hard if someone in the household started his/her BT sessions.

The untagging process has to be done on the router level instead of the BTU level is because the HSBB is supposed to be used by many ISPs, not Telekom only. This will allow the usage of only one BTU per household, even if the household subscribe to multiple ISPs.

I don't really see why router-level untagging can be a problem. The only problem that can come out from this is the quality of the provided router, which is not really good. Just because the DIR-615 is a crappy POS, doesn't mean that the router-level untagging concept is flawed in any way.

That's a pretty lame excuse given by TM themselves. You saw how simple the 3rd party router guides by both Unifi and Maxis users overcame this simply but logging into their BTUs and untick VLAN tagging and select port binding for the supposed ports.

Is it hard for the installers to configure these settings according to which isp the customer selects? It only takes less than 10minutes to configure the 3 VLAN IDs(internet, voice and IPTV) if you have access to the BTU and untag them at the desired ports so that you can use any routers after this point at the built in switch ports on the BTU. Another suggestion is to ask your vendor to write a simple firmware update/flashing software to automatically pre-configure the different VLAN IDs according to different ISPs.

Why is it so hard to train them when they can already set up the accounts inside your home gateways? If they are not up to it there's always the vendor to pre configure your BTUs according to which ISP you're going to set up for with proper sticker labelling.

If they can do this customers don't even need to touch their BTUs because they can freely connect their favourite routers to the BTU ports as the wish. You get to save the cost of having to supply a POS router and force it down to customers.

Is there any guides out there that allows you to go into the BTUs legally? Most of the guides out there use SOHO-grade routers with its own VLAN tagging capabilities to replace the POS routers that TM gives out to their customers. I have not seen any guides out there that allows you to get into the BTU legally and allows you to do things like untagging the VLAN there.

If the untagging process is done in the BTU, then if a customer need to have UNIFI and Maxis at a household at the same time, there will be a need for two BTUs, or the tagging process will need to be redone again, you didn't address this issue. Plus, you didn't even want to address the QoS issues that will result from having Internet traffic + VOIP + IPTV on the same virtual line. I can already see the usual 'The IPTV service broke because my housemate starts Bittorrent!' whine if TM adopts your VLAN untagging suggestion.

As far as I'm concerned, the VLAN scheme that TM and Maxis used for for their HSBB service is a solid one, and the only problem that usually plagued those service users are the POS routers they give out to their customers. And you know what, if any customers out there are not satisfied with the POS routers TM/Maxis gives out to them, there are quite a number of third-party routers out there that can replace them. In fact, if I ever get to have UNIFI at my place (2020 at the earliest), when the installer comes to my house to install it, I'll tell them to keep the DIR-615 outside my house, and will use my own Cisco gear instead as the replacement. Feel good man to be a CCNA engineer!

Don't like the DIR-615? Get a better router! You can already do so today. You don't even have to touch the BTU. No need to ask TM/Maxis to do VLAN untagging at the BTU level.

Well legal or not it's because they themselves made the whole setup so troublesome that encouraged this sort of attempts. Right?
All the customer wants is that they want to plug in their own favourite routers into the the BTU switch port. IF you've done it correctly and lock it up no one will one to touch it because they get to play around with their routers instead.

You know the HSBB contract? If you want both services from ISP they'll have to pull another fibre line with another BTU into your premise.
A whole new set of equipment will have to be dispatched to you from your BTU, router and cordless phone all stated in the contract.
I've also never seen cases where you can subscribe both Streamyx and Jaring DSL on the same phone lines. you can do that with FTTH?

QoS? That's already well taken care of with the different VLAN IDs on the ethernet packets. The separate VLAN ID for IPTV is to ensure uninterrupted bandwidth needed for TV when you use the internet.It's already taken care of Bit Torrent sessions never interrupts the TV or the phone.

The strategy they're configuring the BTU is really bad and inflexibly troublesome. That's what I have to say. You don't want customers touching the BTU then you preapre a nice port for them to plug in any router they like.

With the current setup, what prevents you from putting a better router than DIR-615 to the BTU? Nothing at all! There are plenty of third-party UNIFI routers out there, just buy one to replace the one TM gives to you.

You do not need to pull another fiber cable to your household once HSBB fully rolled out. Of course there will be new routers/STB/VOIP phone, but only one BTU is needed for multiple ISPs. The only reason why two fibre cables need to be proviosioned to your household is if those two ISP has different infrastructures.

You cannot run Streamyx and Jaring ADSL on the same phone line, but you can with UNIFI and Maxis HSBB. Remember, ADSL != FTTH!

You say different VLAN ID will take care of QoS, but what you want in the first place is to remove those VLAN IDs in the first place so that you can put your 'favourite routers' to it.

You can already put any router you want to the BTU. All that is needed is for the router to support VLAN tagging feature. Plenty of those seen at Low Yat Plaza or LYN forum Garage Sales. Just buy one and replace the DIR-615, and problem is solved.

Oh BTW, if a router doesn't support VLAN tagging, then that router is no better really than the DIR-615.

You can run Streamyx and Jaring ADSL on the same phone line, with 2 vpi vci, higher port speed cap, or just easier, use a multi-dial able modem/router.

it's the same with unifi, just need to get all the config done from top to bottom.

actually, your idea will most probably work if a single service such as internet only is offered. For a multi service environment, L2 segregation has to go all the way to the router. The BTU is just a bridge, untagging the VLAN there will cause a problem to the router to bring up all services; Internet will work, but voice or IPTV?

You also need to consider if bridged multicast IPTV or routed multicast IPTV is being offered. In case of Unifi, still bridged but more and more ISP will shift to routed multicast scenario, because it's more flexible and allow the offering of more than one set top box.

TM wants the BTU locked up and they are not being open enough to their customers. All the VLAN IDs that they have and protocols are all these while hidden and if it was not the contribution of some veteran knowledgeable users here doing self discovery it would have been kept secret till everything is blurred caught up in a smoke.

Talk about professional. Why isn't all these clearly explained in their user start up guide and provided users a detailed information of what ports is to be used on their BTU, what kind of settings is to be done(untagging, what protocols are used in place, which 3rd party routers are certified with what firmware versions can be used to replace the POS DIR-615, Thompson?)

They just hid every detail that is from users letting them to find for themselves.

Again as I said if you want to lock up the BTU then at least tell the customer what comes out of your ports.

If you can many people will be delighted to subscribe multiple residential Maxis 10mbps packages to bond them for cheap 30mbps instead of buying expensive.
I would also like to bond a 10mbps Maxis Fibre + 20mbps Unifi VIP20. All together I get 2 fixed phone lines(with 2 cordless phones), 30mbps bonded speed, HyppTV IPTV all at once.

You know their T&C never allowed this in the first place.

By removing(stripping off the VLAN) on a specific port of the BTU, it allows you to buy ANY wireless router you like and use.
Why do you want to complicate it for your customer? If they want to control and lock the settings of the BTU, consumers have no issues with that but they want their own plug in their favourite routers beyond your property(the BTU).


This post has been edited by Ahn3hn3h: Jul 29 2012, 05:02 PM

Technically yes, but the T&C doesn't allow you to subscribe both a Streamyx account + a Jaring account on a same TM line.

The wholesale structure that TM leases to Jaring requires them to buy a physical port for every account they rent from TM on their DSLAM equipments even though you can dial both a Streamyx account or the Jaring account on the same line.



This post has been edited by Ahn3hn3h: Jul 29 2012, 05:20 PM