and my points above still stands

FoT is only good if you got good enough survival stats and/or offensive stats/dps.
being lesser, deadly reach will always be better in terms of buffing 50% armor or 18% dps.

and hell, deadly is aoe, have a bit of range, FoT is single target (for the most part) until the 3rd hit that has a small AoE

Barbs has a LOT of skills for close ins and most of them are very very practical without much drawbacks. (leap lets you go 33k armor, no?)

33K armor is still toufu when it comes to elites fight. Likewise 1500AR.
As I told you, it doesn't work that way.

To prove that your points stand, I think you need to play Barb.
Have you played Barb before? If not, try it and share with us how it goes.

i havent played a barb myself, however i have many friends who do and i team/coop up with a barb very very frequently.
and form my experience on those barbarians, they can tank better when i do and in fact, they LOVE IT when they get mobbed because of how OP revenge is. in fact some of my barb friends tell me NOT to blind unless things get out of hand because he love to spam revenge/healing from revenge. dps wise? lets just say frenzy/WoTB > anything a monk has. and my biggest dps boost (MoC) benefits him as it isnt that exclusive/special to myself anymore. granted, i benefited greatly from his warcry

again, if you're dying like toufu having 10k armor 1k AR compared to your monk, the only thing happening is you're not playing your barb as well as your monk. how else other barbs (lol my sister is reaching inferno soon on her alt barb w) are doing DECENTLY fine/finishing inferno act 4 in the very first place? initially i bring in kripparrian because he is CLEARLY doing something right for barbs when he is clearing inferno act 4 with MUCH LESSER STATS. should i say monk class is horrible because i only clear inferno post 1.0.3 with almost DOUBLE of what kripparrian has on his budget barb?

if you invalidate my points because i dont play a barb, that would be very sad as diablo3 isn't a very difficult game to be very honest and imho you don't really need to play that class to get an idea on how things work. (eg: 10k armor does x dmg reduction, ignore pain does x % dmg reduction and so forth)

I speak from my experience. I am no pro like kripparrian.
Perhaps you can share with us how you sis does in A3/A4 later. Show us the gears she has too.

By the way, do you have the video clip on kripparrian clearing A4 with lesser stats?
The last one I saw is the one with whirlwind.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Jul 26 2012, 11:30 AM

look up his budget barb videos

hmm, i tot is topic Tank DH...

I have never played a monk, but i did spend alot time with my barb before rerolling to my wiz.

I generally think monk has better utility as in teleporting and constant interrupt on mobs not to mention serenity. While barb is a more in your face kinda tank which requires alot more gear to take hits. In the end i've ditched sword & board and went 2handed to clear act3.

Bottom line will need to look at the amount of ehp require to clear both a3 and a4 with both classes.

- no monk can spare hotkeys for dash teleport, and if you choose FoT + thunderclap rune you wont have deadly reach + keen eye for armor boost (which is VERY much needed for lesser geared monks)
- barbs does better interrupts via stun. monk generally ONLY has blind which is on hefty cooldown and has shit effect for elites/bosses
on that same page, wizards does the best with their "stun lock" frost nova abuse

arguably, due to serenity, barbs do require slightly higher e.hp to be equally effective. however again, due to the scalability of barbs, they WILL become much better tank than monks in the longer run (that is how gear dependent classes work in almost every game, start out bad, end up god mode with god like gears)

Until u have killed diablo with naked dh on ur own then i'll agree with u.. otherwise i'll assume ur comment is full of shit.

Typical response of people who have no substance to their arguments.

Fact: DH can kill diablo while naked (as proven by Athene)
Fact: He did it with 400 total dex and 4000+ hp (or whatever a naked lvl 60 base character has).
Fact: No other class has done even a "blue itamz only" diablo kill.

What proper arguments do you have other than "you kill nekkid first then only talk?"

@Aleune: id suggest you spending more time on monks before you comment about skill set, not EVERY monk set thunderclap for hotkey, they actually do lack hotkeys to skill the skills they "want". this is based on my experience and observation

generally imho both classes has its pro and cons, in terms of general mobility, barb do have that advantage, leap to be specific

AR and armor ration has a specific balance, as a barb you should know that, stacking up maximum AR and armor doesnt mean that you will do better tanking than another that is having lesser.

why most barb goes for dps on later acts are very obvious, tanker barbs arent as efficient as dps when you are soloing for obvious reasons, the enrage timer. makes not sense if you are gonna tank a shitload of mobs/elites/champ but cant kill it when you are alone before the enrage timer hits.

Of course, others can choose the skill they prefer.
I just pointed out monk can teleport and healing skills that give better survival in A3/A4.

As for Barb, as you observed, we hardly see a tanker.
Or we only have tanker with low DPS.
Yes, high DPS is the direction for Barb. As I said, that comes with a cost.

For normal players (who have no budget to spend on godly gears), I think they will have more problem with Barb than Monk.

ive seen a ton. all my barb friend started their barb as tanks. I to started out purely tanking, until recently converting/acquiring more of my gear for dps.

when most, if not all my friends has beaten the game, we hardly do massive 4player coop runs. its theoretically more efficient to farm solo with no 115% hp bonus/player.

when i was a tank, i had way less than 20k dps (about 5-7k buffed going full tanking gear coop with friends, they do the dmg, i just make sure they dont die). when i finished diablo inferno as a tank, i had maybe 20-21k BUFFED DPS.

yes, dps comes with a cost, but what makes barb so special compared to monk? (or DH, for this thread's sake)
you either pick tanking, or DPS. if you want both, prepare to fork out money. (gold or usd alike, depending on your preference of AH)

monk heal comes with cost

revenge/charge dreadnought no cost, lower cooldown

im not even gonna touch the passives


thunderclap single targeted, unable to bypass waller

leap/charge, bypass wall & breaks jailing


ignore pain against serenity


etc etc etc etc

as i have said previously, you cant gauge a particular build based on AH pricing, its just dumb to do so when its controlled by player themselves

barbs role again is segregated to 2, tanker or dps, hybrid is just dumb in inferno, alot of barbs would agree with me

you either go full tanker in coop, or go dps in solo

if you still insist on hybrid, get ready to feel the enrage timer punishments

each class has its pro and cons

one can argue that dps gears is expensive, i dont think tanker gears are cheap either, heck all barb gears are expensive due to idiots pricing barb gears, that doesnt mean monk gears are cheap either, overall the AH econ is fvcked up, if you get ANYTHING good that is cheap, just thank the luck god

id beg to differ, the elite among elite are ALL hybrids, barb or monk alike. clearly though we arent those "elite players" and so is ALeUNe, and i guess that is where he paid for trying to be one when he gear his barb (assuming so, as he seems to want EVERYTHING from his monk too lol)

It is low to dish like that.

im not an elite player too very obviously. so if im dishing myself, i guess that's fair play right?

ya... i saw alot... but max also 15k dps.

yea i had 5-7k. didnt even have WoTB to put myself 10-14 even if it only last for mere seconds and have a few min cooldown to it. i didnt even had that "choice" unless i roll barb

i think this apply to all classes. my tanking DH only has 30k dps ... unlike those glass cannon 100k+