Actually, ukemi-kei for taberu 食べる is taberareru 食べられる. In this form for this particular verb, it overlaps with the kanou kei　可能形

XX は食べられる means XX is edible.
to be eaten is 食べられた
to be made to eat is 食べさせられる

In general you need to be conscious of the differences when transforming Group I, II and III verbs

make a table, splitting between Group I, II and III verbs. You can use either jisho-kei or teinei/masu-kei as your base.

For group I, choose a minimum 1 or 2 examples of each pre-masu stem (e.g.: if using masu kei, "kakimasu";"hajimarimasu") or if you prefer jisho-kei, the endings (e.g.., "kaku"; "hajimaru")


Then add in in adjacent columns the te/ta-kei, ukemi-kei, kanou-kei, shieki-kei.

If you look carefully you should be able to discern certain patterns and reduce them into simple math-like formulae.

I could give you the formulae outright, but that wouldn't be any fun, would it? XD
Stuff you work out yourself sticks in your head much longer.

Since you are already learning ukemi and shieki kei, I would surmise that you are already at least at an intermediate level. You should be able to deduce by now that the Japanese language follows some very clear, pseudo-mathematical rules and have far less rei-gai compared to some other crazy mongrel languages (English comes to mind). If you are adept at math, using this formula approach will speed up your understanding of Japanese grammar.

This post has been edited by oe_kintaro: Apr 4 2010, 04:12 PM

mumeichan,
an interesting and detailed take, but I'm not sure if that is entirely kosher.

Within the context of group II verbs, passive (受身形) and potential (可能形) form are similar. My take on this, using 食べる:

食べられる - this form serves as both potential and passive depending on context of the sentence. Key to deciphering would be based on particles used, eg. に or が
Based on my understanding, the Japanese potential form does not differentiate between "edible" and "able to eat" - both are 食べられる. To decipher them would be based on context. Or, you can use the 食べることができる form to make things clearer.

The only notable special exceptions to this rule is 見られる (able to see)　and 見える　(visible) and the 聞ける (able to hear)　and 聞こえる (audible) forms

By detailing the forms above, you have basically alluded to a somewhat problematic and controversial topic in Japanese grammar: the [ら]抜き (omission of "ra") which I am not sure is entirely appropriate for the casual level of understanding of this forum.
But anyway here's what I know of it:

In casual speech form it is common to hear "食べれる" or "見れる" when used as potential form but this is not considered grammatically orthodox as it should still be written as 食べられる and 見られる. In schools, the [ら]抜きis still not taught despite it's pervasiveness in everyday usage.

just my 2 cents'


p.s. 食べされる looks wrong. される for exists for する (group III)

させる　form represents both "to make" or "to let" depending on context
させられる　form represents "to be made to do" or "to be forced to do" (essentially the same thing)

I'm not very sure about the above but I would say that 能動態 and 受動態 refer to active and passive voice. This may refer to the sentence structure as a whole.
Whereas 受身形 is passive "form" and 使役形 is causative "form" respectively. Hence," 形", refering specifically to the transformation of the verb.

It's the reverse of using the base verb to inflect. The patterns are more or less fixed and as long as you know those inflection rules, you can work backwards.

There are some overlap so in such cases you have to depend on either the kanji or the context of the sentence.

To the Japanese, green is historically a subset of blue.
Quoting Wikipedia:

Use flashcards preferably with a practice partner. Works like a charm. 2 weeks intensive practice is all you need. After that it's all about regular use, which you can get by using textbooks that does NOT use romaji.

REPEAT AFTER ME: "I SHALL NOT RELY ON ROMAJI."

---

Added on October 30, 2011, 7:15 pmlisten more. leave the minna no nihongo tapes for the class room. Outside of it you need multiple sessions j-dorama/doraemon/NHK without the subs.
Listening comprehension is a 2 step process:
the first step is to be able to "tune" your hearing so you catch the syllables and follow the natural rhythm of the language.
2nd step comes after your hearing is "tuned", which is to check up unfamiliar words in a dictionary

This post has been edited by oe_kintaro: Oct 30 2011, 07:15 PM

Everyone has to start somewhere. When I was a noobie learner, all my animu were sourced from VCD and DVD. I learned the hard way, paying through my nose for animu discs (yes, even the RM39 per disc Taiwanese imports), extra Japanese lessons (up to 6 hours a week), extra reference books from kinokuniya, doing internet research + multiple viewings to understand animu etc. As for listening, we didn't have any fancy iphone dictionaries or denshi jisho so I had to furiously flip through a dog-eared dictionary as my teacher was speaking to decipher any unfamiliar words.

Things are sooo much easier these days

I don't watch anime online so I wouldn't know of any subbed anime websites, but I used to go to Tokyotosho/l33t raws for BT. Material with japanese subs is comparatively rare but should be available there.

The whiterabbit ones are the originals. The kino version is an "Asianized" lower cost edition. Content-wise almost exactly the same, except for some very *minor* differences relating to copyrighted material such as illustrations. You wouldn't notice it unless you use it all the time.
Off the top of my head, the mondai passage in chapter 26 about Doraemon has an illustration of the titular robot cat in the whiterabbit version, while the same passage in the asian version omits the drawing.

PJLS has a facebook page. You can "like" it if you want to subscribe to their updates on latest activities and classes.
Their standard course is based around the Minna no Nihongo syllabus, though different teachers may have different styles and reference additional material. And, yes for the amount of ground you can cover, PJLS is still one of the cheapest and value for money language schools in Penang.
I don't think there's anyone who teaches/learns the Japanese language in Penang who hasn't heard of Cheng-sensei
All the teachers there are part timers with varying amounts of experience. Foong sensei is also very experienced and highly recommended. (I think he's the one who likes to make students make their own sentences )
It's a common misconception that everyone teaches in Mandarin there. Many of the teachers do use English or whatever it takes to get the point across

This post has been edited by oe_kintaro: May 24 2012, 02:48 PM

You just need to register your name and contact number and they will call you up when there's a new class opening. The thing with part-timer teaching staff is that they don't really have much luxury in terms of schedule (most of the classes are at night).
It's quite unfortunate that your friends felt they did not get their money's worth, as my personal experience with the teachers there is quite good. I was aware of some complaints in the past, but I heard those teachers have already been "disqualified" from opening new classes.

ps: There is a new elementary 1 class opening on the 26th of next month. From the time schedule, I think the teacher is Ms Chen (not Ms Cheng )
http://www.pjls.org/?p=151

This post has been edited by oe_kintaro: May 24 2012, 03:10 PM

Attrition is very high because most Malaysians are hangat hangat tahi ayam
Also, based on my sembang-sembang with the veteran teachers, most students these days are not so self motivated and expect the teacher to spoonfeed and make it exciting for them: that's the difference between Gen X and Gen Y i guess.
According to statistics, I think only 1 in 20 or 1 in 40 make it all the way to a proficiency level where they are able to take on N1

but generally I think you get the idea...very few people who start out learning japanese get to the point where they master functional use of it...
A real pity, considering it is one of the easier foreign languages to learn.

good luck on your journey
Also, everyone has a different way of learning, but dedication, enthusiasm and persistence are always common key elements. 1 year is a long time to get used to katakana and hiragana, btw
it took me whole of 2 weeks using flash cards to get to 80% proficiency. maybe you should try a different method from what you are using now...
Also, if you are relying on textbooks which are in romaji, PLEASE THROW THEM AWAY. They are an impediment to serious learning of the language.

I hope you didn't take it the wrong way
What I meant was that basic hiragana and katakana is a prerequisite to be able to use the textbooks, especially if you are using books like Minna no Nihongo where there is nary a romanized word in sight. (there *is* a romaji version, but I would stay away from that). 2 to 4 weeks is par for the course for a beginner to be able to recognize 60-80% for the kana consistently

I'm just noting that if you are still have difficulty with those after one year, perhaps there was not enough emphasis on memorizing and writing drills in the beginning. In my experience, flash cards with a partner is the fastest way to recognize the kana, with writing drills to reinforce learning. There is a reason why most teachers spend an inordinate amount of time with the kana writing in the early part of the course: if they don't get it out of the way, the students will suffer later as they move deeper into the syllabus because the book assumes ability to read the kana already..

if you are familiar with PJLS' syllabus you should be familiar with the kana no nyuumon which they use. That one is quite usable. As for flash cards I think the ones they use for teaching toddlers is good enough

In N5, N4 there's not much kanji, but there is a certain level of dissonance involved as there are many words with different meanings from chinese. So for the chinese educated, they would have to "unlearn" certain meanings first in order to progress. Foreknowledge of the chinese language has no discernible advantage below N3. Rather, it could potentially be an impediment if the learner cannot "unlearn" the chinese meanings.
N3 and above, however, it would be a great help.
Keep in mind that some stroke orders are different from Chinese, so don't attempt the 日本漢字能力検定 (The Japan Kanji Aptitude Test) without some revision, or you could find yourself seriously pwned by a gaijin

if you are a self-learner, the Genki series is fine as it has explanations integrated into the main text. Else get Minna no Nihongo, which is what my school currently uses. Shin Nihongo no Kiso is a bit old, but still useful - I used that when I took basic Japanese in university. I find the difference in perspectives offered in the books quite interesting. Each is a product of the time it was originally published: Minna no Nihongo appears to be aimed at foreign students studying in Japan. Shin Nihongo no Kiso (IIRC) comes from a time when there were lot of "kenshuusei" going Japan for technical training.

difference between へand に is quite subtle
a simple explanation is that へemphasizes the direction while にemphasizes the destination, e.g. you go to America for a business trip (i.e. for a reason) vs you go to America (period)
In the first example アメリカへ出張に行きますwhile in the secondアメリカに行きます。Do note that you can conjugate へwith のto form への but not にの
e.g. 札幌へのバスは何時に到着しますか。

No.

明日、[私は]友達と買い物に行く約束があります。
明日、[私は]友達と買い物に行く予定です。
both work better IMHO.
My basic principle is that if it sounds contrived, you are wasting your time. Avoid the mistake of translating your "English" thoughts into "Japanese".
It's better to listen to how Japanese use their language, and reverse engineer that to your normal thought process. Eventually, you have to learn how to think "in Japanese" in order to express yourself in their language effectively