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 (True 4G) LTE 100-150Mbps 2013-2014 Malaysia V1, LTE is going to replace 3G in future

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alf233
post Jan 3 2013, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(DrPitchard @ Jan 3 2013, 02:40 PM)
+1. Really depends on whether the regulators want to grant license or not. A lot to take into consideration actually, and of course, a lot of money involved, in terms of foreign flow of investment (Digi) and so on.

The governments decision in awarding only 20MHz blocks of spectrum to all the main players, forces them to collaborate among one another to fully use LTE's capabilities.

I guess, for consumers, it was always only about getting it as soon as possible at an even cheaper rate than the current technology, not being aware that there is so much complications behind it, in terms of the investment of the infrastructure and also the upgrade of the current voice call infrastructure.

Why does the the voice call infrastructure has to be upgraded? Is it not compatible with the LTE data systems? That is a different story entirely....
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totally agree.. while the customers want lte coverage nationwide as soon as possible.. it is actually very challenging to do this for operators and upgrading to lte is very costly. thats why u see even in us and other european countries, lte coverage is expanded in stages
alf233
post Jan 3 2013, 07:16 PM

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QUOTE(clamp_wl @ Jan 3 2013, 05:36 PM)
den will the spectrum in m'sia compatible with the LTE smartphones that will be introduced in m'sia?
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i would say we are considered lucky because our lte (as well as 2g & 3g) spectrum follow common spectrum deployed worldwide.. lte (fdd) at 1800MHz and 2600MHz are the most deployed network in the world.

the benefits to us are: most phones are compatible, and we wont have problem when roaming abroad in most countries..

so dont worry about the lte devices that are coming to malaysia..
alf233
post Jan 3 2013, 07:34 PM

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QUOTE(DrPitchard @ Jan 3 2013, 07:23 PM)
user posted image

LTE speed with Maxis Broadband @ TTDI.
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wow.. the upload is superb.. that is almost theoretical (25Mbps)
alf233
post Jan 3 2013, 08:30 PM

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QUOTE(blacktubi @ Jan 3 2013, 08:26 PM)
Guess I should sue them

user posted image user posted image

Complained and waited for more than 6 months all giving excuses doh.gif

Planning to wait for the last time until Maxis last promise is to solve it by the end of January

Note, this is DC-HSPA+
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report skmm first, if not solved then tribunal pengguna, f still not solve then only get a good lawyer and sue them
alf233
post Jan 3 2013, 10:10 PM

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QUOTE(blacktubi @ Jan 3 2013, 08:41 PM)
SKMM = Check
Cfm = Check

Case closed with remarks Maxis will resolve the issue with our clients.

Maxis someone like an engineer told me the amount of upgrade is limited

Only solution is to build a new tower to distribute the load, I am so frustrated and decided stop arguing.

Just wondering if pushing more bandwidth and backhaul to a tower should help right doh.gif

I guess Maxis is not committed to handling this complaint at all
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wow.. you have actually done that.. you must be really frustrated then..

there are basically 2 types of congestions:
1. the backhaul is sufficient but there are too many users. example tower is dc hspa+ (42Mbps) and backhaul is also 42Mbps. but bandwidth is shared by too many users, hence congested
2. backhaul is shared for several sites and not enough to sufficiently provide bandwidth to a site. example although the tower can give you 42Mbps, but backhaul is only 10Mbps

pushing more bandwidth will only solve number 2.. and technically its really challenging to add tower to a place that already has coverage because this will create huge interference..


Added on January 3, 2013, 10:19 pm
QUOTE(wavezard @ Jan 3 2013, 08:53 PM)
do you know the schedule for LTE? brows.gif if yes..there pm button under my name  tongue.gif

and does we need to terminate and subscribe another package too use LTE? hope u can answer this as many people also want to ask this question  blush.gif
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maxis: according to their lte video, main cities and will be expanded in stages
celcom: the schedule available on their web
digi: as claimed in one of their press releases, 50% coverage.. and thats a lot.. if u live in city/town i'm sure your area will be within 50%

your 2nd question: working in telco industry doesnt mean we know everything. i myself working in telco industry on technical side and deal with lte almost everyday, but dont really know how is it going to be sold (marketing stuff) however i know the technical stuff of lte pretty well and happy to share it here

This post has been edited by alf233: Jan 3 2013, 10:19 PM
alf233
post Jan 3 2013, 10:45 PM

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QUOTE(xelamil @ Jan 3 2013, 10:32 PM)
I can hope it's not so bad...

But then, a certain WiMax provider also started claiming 4G... with up to 1Mbps download speed...

At the minimum, those claiming 4G, should have decency to provide minimum better than average of HSPA+
WiMAX is 4G, as defined by ITU (international telecommunications union). Literally 4G can be using either WiMAX or LTE technology
alf233
post Jan 3 2013, 10:56 PM

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QUOTE(blacktubi @ Jan 3 2013, 10:24 PM)
Looks like my problem is so severe cry.gif

This is what they told me, I don't actually understand.
They even know their site is congested.
Hope you can help if you understand these notworthy.gif

[attachmentid=3242069]
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I guess you're getting good signal but couldnt get good speed?

A friend in Maxis told me that Maxis will usually upgrade their network in stages everytime there is a congestion until they cannot upgrade anymore. If that's what Maxis engineer told you, your area must be really congested that they cannot upgrade anymore.

Building new tower is the easiest solution as it will relieve the congestion by segregating the users but this is technically very challenging.. I'm sure they would have done that if possible

Hope LTE will come to your area soon and will relieve the congestions there.

If that still doesnt solve your problem, then I'd highly recommend you to get fixed broadband (Unifi or Maxis fiber or time.com) which at least guarantees the speed
alf233
post Jan 3 2013, 11:11 PM

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QUOTE(Ahn3hn3h @ Jan 3 2013, 10:50 PM)
Answer:
Did you intentionally left out the total number of subcarriers in regards of spectrum width, mind you without that you can't calculate the maximum throughput? You forgot the fact that the total number of subcarriers are different in 2X10MHz versus 1X20MHz setups? When you do the calculation of radio resources to bits conversion, of course they are similar but it has of no interests to network operators. The spectral efficiency which you argued on has nothing more than the technical meaning of bits conversion related to RF than efficient use spectrum for service deployments.

The spectrum argument has been dead since voice became purely packet switched. Pure data players such as YES, P1, Clearwire, Vivid Wireless and others who provide mobile broadband players hardly see any advantages from using FDD.It is also natural for WIMAx operators to take this route for their next upgrade since WIMAx is also based on TDD. There is no urgent need for them prioritized QoS for voice services. HD Voice is packet based which can be handled with upper layers. If they need, there is the 3G networks to fall back on for pay per minute calls.
Of course you can't use the same strategy as FDD with TDD. But I see you lack the experience and knowledge in deploying your products in real commercial situations. TDD excels in urbanized setups and indoor coverages where you have isolated hotspots that hardly overlaps with other microcells footprints.Take Softbank's Wireless City Planning Project for Metropolitan Tokyo. The number of microcells they'll deploy is about 150 units per sq km all of them with just about the size of a shoebox.Dark fibre is plentiful in metropolitan Tokyo for backhaul. Each "shoebox" will be pumped with 10GE access to a centralised local exchange office which synchronizes time for all of them.So what's your problem with inteferences? Moreover (if you don't know) the sales of LTE microcells is expected to dominate and surpass macro base stations by 2014. It'll expect to make up 90% of all base stations by 2016. DC-HSPA+ will continue to serve greater areas outside the cities, while wifi hotspots will offload data in public areas.  
I've not told you this until now but FYI, I've been a registered member with ETSI since the REL99 days, company forced me to do it upon joining. I'll wouldn't suggest engineers to concentrate reading up those specs without proper exposure and touching knowledge materials supplied by their companies research depts. Without proper guidance and hands-on from seniors or trainers, the contents are gibberish even to most engineers out there. They make good references for facts finding but not cookbooks.
Answer:
You hid the fact that 75mbps can only be achieved by TDD-LTE if there's only a single user occupying the whole subcarrier for himself. In a multi user environment that contends, TDD mode's wider lanes will be at advantage. The challenge for throughput is to send as much data over the link with the fixed amount of time. It's true that in a single user environment where one gets to download continuously over a subcarrier for a longer period of time FDD achieves greater transfer speeds but if assuming you have a competition where who gets to paint a larger overall portion of the road, TDD can have just as much covered with higher capacity making up for it.Try benchmarking TDD with more users contending with downloads at the same time, real world condition speeds will drop considerably. One proof I will show you is from a presentation given by a Korean working with NSN, unless he's trying to pull off a lie with the crowd, the results are contrasting compared to the theoretical maximum thoughput which you took from your 3GPP specs boldly. Not that it did indicate any caveat emptor when quoting them. Did they specifically mentioned the conditions when they conducted the tests? Do you now know why I only refer to specs for referencing?They don't tell best practices.

user posted image

In fact if they have extra spectrum to spare, just like in the case of Clearwire acquisition, Softbank intends to use full 40MHz and give speeds of upto 4-5 times that of what those FDD networks Verizon and ATT are doing.On top of that they can even provide unlimited quotas with the added capacity which none of the 2 FDD players can ever dare commit.
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Let me guess.. You are an old WiMAX engineer working with NSN? hmm.gif whose mind really closed on TDD because of the extensive experience you had with WiMAX..

Hang on, isn't this an LTE thread, why there is a WiMAX stuff here? I guess maybe you should start a new thred on WiMAX vs LTE then i won't bother to argue with your closed mind..

To be honest i didn't even bother reading everything that you wrote, your mind is really sealed with one technology. No point for further discussion/argument. Like I told you before, I'm open to any technology and nuetral whether its FDD or TD LTE...

Lets just wait and see which one (FDD LTE or TD LTE) will be the choice of Malaysia users. Well at least we know already FDD LTE is more commonly deployed worldwide..

No WiMAX please or open new thread

I forgot one thing, you were saying FDD vs TD are because of political issues west vs east... Looks like your exposure on LTE is not really enough.. Dont you know that all LTE vendors.. I repeat all, from west (NSN, ALU, Ericsson) and from east (Huawei, ZTE, Samsung, NEC) have both FDD LTE and TD LTE solutions? Ok you didnt know this, well at least you should thank me for telling you this good piece of information

This post has been edited by alf233: Jan 3 2013, 11:15 PM
alf233
post Jan 3 2013, 11:21 PM

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QUOTE(Ahn3hn3h @ Jan 3 2013, 11:01 PM)
Most WIMAX chipset manufacturers are moving into the TD-LTE camp since both technologies are similarly related.

Inefficient and corrupted governments love playing spectrum auctioning games.They are auctioning little blocks of them everywhere telling people they are scarce and pricing them at exceptional high costs.

As an end result, the move is actually to deter competition from smaller players from entering the next generation game. In the case of USA, the ones who can only afford most of the blocks auctioned are the 2 monopoly giants which are Verizon and AT&T. Don't you see they are continuing their monopoly practices because only the big guns are the only ones who can afford the purchases?

Similarly in Malaysia, the joint team ups are only benefiting the big players such as TM and Maxis. Eventually the smaller players such as P1 will have to end up being absorbed and merged itself into the giants or be eliminated. They are singulating out companies which they only have interests in and make them payback for the continuation of their monopoly tactics.Cronies get themselves with money acquired from licensing and at the same time maintain their monopoly.

Some way or another you will be able to find that people who sits in the FCC or communication commisions have their interests in the giant monopolistic telcos.
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We have SPRM / MACC / PDRM special branch / FBI in the house!!!!
alf233
post Jan 4 2013, 12:01 AM

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QUOTE(DrPitchard @ Jan 3 2013, 11:55 PM)
What device are you using? Is it capable of achieving more than 7.2Mbps? In my opinion, if the speed is far from promised, then its jz a simple decision that you have, which is to change provider. But, if you have a contract with them, then you can argue their speed is not as promised, thus, the reason why you want to cancel the contract and have the penalty waived. This is especially true if its a wireless broadband or fibre internet. If they don't agree to terminate and waive the penalty, then only the sue scenario comes into picture.

If it's just because the speed is not as advertised, you have no contract and you want to sue, then you'll be going nowhere with that...
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Think he's only joking about suing, guess all providers already got clauses to save them in the TnC smile.gif

Yep, change to other providers, but make sure test it out first, you dont want to end up having the same problem
alf233
post Jan 4 2013, 10:07 AM

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QUOTE(DrPitchard @ Jan 4 2013, 12:15 AM)
Yeah, the moment you sign that T&C acceptance form, its gonna be hard for the user...
Some customers take it seriously, and sue the telco providers for millions in losses!!! (can't carry out business such as online share trading, causing them to lose a fortune).

Outcome: Judge throws the case out of court and scolds the customer not to waste ppl's time. Besides that, have to pay the legal fee's for the telco side.

REAL STORY!
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Never knew this.. Thanks for sharing..


Added on January 4, 2013, 2:23 pmTweeted by SoyaCincau earlier, Celcom LTE soft launch will happen at 3pm today

This post has been edited by alf233: Jan 4 2013, 02:23 PM
alf233
post Jan 4 2013, 03:51 PM

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As tweeted by soyacincau again, devices that will be available from Celcom

https://twitter.com/Soya_Cincau/status/2871...9583488/photo/1
alf233
post Jan 5 2013, 12:11 AM

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QUOTE(dominic33 @ Jan 4 2013, 10:24 PM)
Everyone is complaining current smartphones not in the listing
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Thought they have Huawei Ascend P1? I'm sure they will be more smartphones coming, but probably they didnt dare to say anything yet until they closed the deals with phone manufacturers
alf233
post Jan 7 2013, 01:42 PM

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QUOTE(fat16 @ Jan 6 2013, 08:12 AM)
Digi cannot use GSM 900 & 3G 900mhz like celcom and maxis. Digi have GSM 900 license but slot too little. Make matter worse, gov dont want give Digi GSM 850 license.

I think Digi setup LTE 1800 first just wait gov green light before swith on.
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According to SKMM website,

900MHz: Digi has the least spectrum, compared to Maxis and Celcom
1800MHz: All (Digi, Celcom & Maxis) have equal

Looking at what they have, I think it's more difficult for Digi to do LTE 1800 because most of their 2G users are on 1800MHz, so it's difficult for them to free up their 1800MHz for LTE. Whereas its easier for Maxis and Celcom because they have large 900MHz, where they can push their 2G users to 900MHz, free up their 1800MHz for LTE.

I think likely Digi will do 2600MHz first and 1800MHz later. But I may be wrong, we shall wait and see which frequency they will launch first.

alf233
post Jan 7 2013, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(rattan @ Jan 7 2013, 01:52 PM)
As usual, Digi still silent about their LTE plan. Maxis and Celcom already showing off their plans. Digi still quiet.

Fade up with digi turtle slow actions.
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Although their website http://www.digi.com.my/tomorrownetwork/ says as of today 3008 out of 5572 sites have already been upgraded to LTE

"After the upgrade, our network will be able to provide High Speed Internet covering at least 95.8% of all Malaysia, as well as being fully-equipped to handle LTE (Long Term Evolution) technology. "
alf233
post Jan 8 2013, 02:44 PM

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QUOTE(DrPitchard @ Jan 8 2013, 12:27 PM)
Are you aware about the implications of the switch? From traditional voice to VoLTE? I personally don't see this coming any time soon, due to the nature of the Malaysian market, where still a sizeable portion of the market is still not using smartphones and thus, data.
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Yes that's so true.. it will take years before we can see pure voice over LTE in Malaysia. Dont think anyone who are not from telco industry would be aware of circuit switch and packet switch..

Lets be clear on the definition of voice over LTE:

1. Voice over LTE with 2G or 3G fallback, or commonly called CSFB (circuit switch fallback)
This is what being implemented in 99% of LTE network worldwide and supported by almost all LTE smartphones. Example of this is you're doing data on LTE and when you make/receive voice calls, you'll be pushed to 3G or 2G just for voice calls, and your data session will also go to 3G / 2G, hence speed is reduced. And once you have ended your voice call, your phone will go back to LTE, back to LTE speed. This is because your LTE can't handle voice calls. If you're talking about this solution, Maxis and Celcom will have it soon. I'm sure their LTE network is capable of this today.

2. Pure voice over LTE, or commonly called HD (LTE) voice:
The difference is you dont have to go to 2G / 3G when making or receiving voice calls. Your LTE can handle it. So your data session will remain. This will require (1) nationwide coverage of LTE (I think this will only happen in 5-10years, even 3G coverage of Celcom and Maxis is now only ~80%); and (2) availability of devices that support voice over LTE (currently there is very very limited). As of today, only Korea has done this, this is because they have >90% population coverage of LTE network and they worked with their exclusive device partner to have devices that support this.




alf233
post Jan 8 2013, 08:30 PM

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QUOTE(Pegasus88 @ Jan 8 2013, 08:26 PM)
Why the hell puncak semanaget can get 30mhz ? while the three giants got only 20mhz ?
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puncak semangat actually get 40MHz..

according to skmm in news.. they get more because they are new.. so they can compete with existing players..
alf233
post Jan 8 2013, 08:37 PM

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QUOTE(Ahn3hn3h @ Jan 8 2013, 08:20 PM)

A well planned 3G DC-HSPA+ network with very good coverage and is in a better position to even take on FD-LTE(with limited spectrum blocks allocations) and even the HSBB fibre networks
agree that well planned dc network is sufficient without need of lte.. but trust me there are several areas that are highly congested even the operator has done all upgrades they could and use all resources (spectrum) they have.. be it celcom, maxis, digi or u-mobile
alf233
post Jan 9 2013, 12:16 AM

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QUOTE(Ahn3hn3h @ Jan 8 2013, 09:07 PM)
Then they should have concentrated on working on their backhaul first don't you think. That's what DiGi is silently concentrating with their Tomorrow's Network advantage. The backhaul plays a very important role to keep sites pumped enough of bandwidth to prevent congestion in real world situations. Creative methods to offload the networks is also an important startegy.
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Yes thats what I thought, of course backhaul upgrade is required before they can do LTE

QUOTE(Ahn3hn3h @ Jan 8 2013, 09:07 PM)
The title of being Asia's 1st to launch commercial LTE has long been taken by others. So launching 1st is not a priority now.
The one who launches the widest coverage, cheapest packages and cater with the surge in network capacity without compormising customers experience is the REAL winner.
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Agree with you being first may not be important. You may think so, I may think so. But their board of directors, top management may think otherwise. They probably think being first would make their customers feels secured that the customers are making the right choice.. Probably. We have seen Maxis is still proud being the first to launch 3G and U Mobile is still proud being the first to launch DC-HSPA+..

QUOTE(Ahn3hn3h @ Jan 8 2013, 09:07 PM)
I don't understand Malaysian mentality of constraining themselves and always creating competiton only in their areas of choices.
Just look at TM, Maxis, DiGi and UMobile. It's always DU, TTDI, Subang Jaya, Putrajaya and Bangsar. They always get the golden shower first hand and then if demand dies down the whole momentum halts.
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I dont understand neither. But i'm sure they have their own reasons to choose those areas.. Probably some VVIPs live there that they have to make sure the VVIPs' house get LTE coverage, or maybe those areas are really congested that they have no other choices but to deploy LTE, or maybe those areas are high revenue generating areas which they think it would be easy to sell and get ROI quickly.. Whatever it is I'm sure they have their own good reasons

QUOTE(Ahn3hn3h @ Jan 8 2013, 09:07 PM)
Who would be interested for expensive high quota LTE packages when you already have HSBB at home? Would a wise person spent unnecessarily on several overlap services which you don't get to use all of it meaningfully? There's a living to make and there's a more to life other than your smartphone and PC at home.
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I agree with you but you will need to uderstand there are hundreds of different requirements by customers.. I've seen people who willing to pay premium for excellent mobile internet but dont really care for home internet (most of the times not at home), vice versa.. There are also people who need excellent mobile internet for themselve when outside as well as home internet for their children.. And there are lots more different requirements out there

And yes there are lots more things to do in life, but slowly internet has been playing key roles in our daily life. Almost everything you do require internet

Dont get me wrong here.. I respect and agree with your views. I'm just saying that your views are applicable to certain group of people. There are other people who have completely opposite views but still correct..
alf233
post Jan 9 2013, 01:49 PM

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For those interested with LTE HD voice, another launch of this

http://lteworld.org/news/t-mobile-launches...tails-lte-plans

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