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 (True 4G) LTE 100-150Mbps 2013-2014 Malaysia V1, LTE is going to replace 3G in future

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alf233
post Jul 29 2013, 09:26 AM

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QUOTE(Ahn3hn3h @ Jul 29 2013, 02:55 AM)
Telling people the truth, I think DiGi which once used to be many Malaysian favourite choice has became the WORST telco now in the country with the highest number of drop calls and most expensive internet deals.

Many of their talents have left the company and replaced by unproductive ones over the last 3 years resulting in such a letdown.

Their daily internet plans are the most expensive even 3X as expensive as Maxis Hotlink's.

RM3 for 150MB while Hotlink charges RM5 for 600MB.

Their prepaid broadband is so sucky that upon finishing your expensive quota 3X more expensive than Hotlink's, your internet access is cut off immediately - not even slowed down total disconnect!

Whoever in DiGi who planned that prepaid broadband plan to replace the limited edition version should be SACKED immediately for digging the company's grave faster than before!

Also the same curse which once bugged Maxis/Celcom side such as offering too many confusing packages/plans is also starting to infect DiGi. Who knows if the unwanted or lousy staffs previously from Maxis/Celcom had jumped camp and corrupt DiGi? laugh.gif

Worst yet reading the stories from other blogs I've also encountered that DiGi customer service have now reached the same levels as once Hotlink.There was one I read complaining that their customer service officer could tell their customer that if he could not make emergency calls, they should call their customer careline to report immediately.

What a joke! If you are in an emergency situation at knife point you still want to call DiFi cust careline? laugh.gif
Die lar like dat!

http://www.malaysianwireless.com/2013/07/d...celcom-letters/

I don't blame Telenor - DiGi's parent company for this wait and observe policy. Maybe they're just waiting to sell the company off at the right time when they get the price tag done RIGHT.

DiGi says they're planning to spend MYR 650million over the next few years to upgrade their Tomorrow's Network.

Did you all know how much Telenor is spending for their sister company DTAC's Tomorrow HSPA/LTE network in Thailand?
USD1.3billion
http://www.cellular-news.com/story/56691.php
They also have better access in Thailand over the 850MHz/1800MHz spectrums.
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Good views!!!
alf233
post Aug 1 2013, 11:43 AM

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http://www.cnet.com.au/samsung-to-release-...4-339345052.htm

Good news for Yes & P1. Hope dual-mode ecosystem will grow faster after this, and matured enough by the time they launch their LTE network. So that P1 & Yes won't have issue with ecosystem anymore
alf233
post Aug 2 2013, 09:41 AM

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QUOTE(Ahn3hn3h @ Aug 2 2013, 02:11 AM)
P1 Networks will soon be followed by DiGi. They used to be the most exciting telcos back in those days but some party wasn't happy with their aggressive marketing sales strategies.

It's hard to do business when some government commission who is supposedly needed to be neutral in its stance forces the smaller players to share bandwidth with a incumbent monopoly in the same business instead.

As a result you can see DiGi's prepaid voice calls are now the most expensive in the industry as well as it's internet.
Newer players will continue to replace the old but business doesn't get anymore further because the public could feel that there's a cartel like structure controllinb behind the whole telecoms sector.
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Dont think DiGI will follow.. Their financial results show otherwise.

Agree with you the current LTE volume quota is definitely not enough.. Hope these telcos will learn and revise them soon...

As for volume-based & time-based quota, although time-based that you suggested is very beneficial to the consumers, it is not so practical to the network. The telco must somehow keep some balances between them, in order to have healthy network utilisations. This is why we see peak/non-peak hour based quota in certain telcos.


alf233
post Aug 5 2013, 08:44 AM

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Not my view, but just the fact & history of "unlimited quota"

Years ago there was unlimited quota by these telcos...
However there was small percentage of users who really used it to the max, and this small percentage of uses significantly affected other users' experience as well as network performance...
Hence these telcos have learned this lessons and stopped these unlimited quota..
Which is why you hardly see "unlimited quota" not only in Malaysia, but anywhere in the world.. (i know still got few here with unlimited quota)
Agree current LTE quota is too little, and unlimited quota would be ideal for consumers, but it's just not practical for the telcos..

Cost per GB for LTE is significantly lower than 3G. And yes these telcos should add more volumes...

This post has been edited by alf233: Aug 5 2013, 08:46 AM
alf233
post Aug 7 2013, 08:39 AM

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QUOTE(Ahn3hn3h @ Aug 7 2013, 02:46 AM)
Cost per GB is cheaper than those days I completely agree.

On contrary to that, it seems our present day mobile internet charges has gotten even more expensive compared to years back.

Years back mobile backhauls and connectivity was limited and today we already have most our our base stations wired up with redundant fibre links which feed them with gigabits of data.

Even so the irony was that years back we had truly UNLIMITED access at full 7.2mbps for RM99 and those with quota are slowed down to even faster speeds than today - 384kbps after finishing what they subscribed.

Today Malaysian general quota exceed speed across all telcos is 64kbps/128kbps! Why are we moving backwards? Is bandwidth getting more expensive? I don't think so.

Why are we not getting something like 512kbsp-1mbps after we exceeded our quotas since LTE networks today do speeds of over 30mbps on most plans while base stations already are accommodating hundreds or gigabits of data on their backhaul links?

Our mobile telcos are still selling 384kbps mobile internet plans, and those who have used it would know how excruciating it is. Even Youtube videos on 144p wouldn't stream smoothly and you need to pay RM3 just for 150mb?
That's horrendous!

At the end, it's all about the money and revenues. Our telcos still think they can have it all their way even though they continue to make Malaysian subscribers as theit milk cows.

Just came back from Maxis press conf , earnings up 13.8% to 528million YoY.

Still believe the lies that subscribers are hogging their lines with a small percentage hogging over 80% of their capacity? If that is so how come every year their profits keep going up and up? laugh.gif

International capacity limited? How come fixed lines get away with UNLIMITED bandwidth while wireless who shares the same international submarine connectivity with them doesn't?
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Will have to agree with you on this.. smile.gif Unacceptable isn't, when we live in 4G era, which can give you average speed of 20Mbps & peak 50Mbps, but the speed after exceeding quota is throttled down to 384kbps. Thats less than 1% of 50Mbps.. The message they want to give is simple I think.. "If you exceed your quota, your internet will be almost useless.. so buy a new volume"

On the internet traffic.. Being in the industry and having looked at the actual stats, it is actually true that the top users actually make up most of the overall network capacity... Moving from pay-per-use to volume based charging, the profits is mainly from those who don't use all their quotas.. Honestly, there are still lots of users who use not even more than 50% of their quotas.. Smart marketing by them.. Example, I myself subscribed to 3GB/month for a 3G mobile device, but my average usage is only 2GB/month (because I want to have a peace of mind not having to go through super slow internet and top up my quota every month)... So from me, the telco is already making 1GB worth of profit out of nothing.. And imagine how much they are making these free profits at no cost from their millions of subs.. not only from unused data, but also from unused voice & text

This post has been edited by alf233: Aug 7 2013, 08:42 AM
alf233
post Aug 12 2013, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(fruitie @ Aug 8 2013, 09:32 PM)
R&D is one of the most important divisions in an organization, the company I'm working in is a telco vendor spends a lot on R&D because that's how you remain competitive in the market.
Your customer wants to see what you can offer that others can't.
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For vendor, yes R&D is very important. But for telco vostro78 is right. It is not very important, but still have the importance.. for example researching and testing new technologies (e.g. LTE/LTE-Advanced), market trend, devices/usage trend, spectrum trend, etc... developing and applying them to the network where/when applicable, to enhance user experience & reduce Capex/Opex. For example, it didn't take days or weeks to deploy 4G/LTE, it tooks months/years before the telcos feel comfortable to launch it as commercial service to paying-customers
alf233
post Aug 13 2013, 09:20 AM

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QUOTE(rattan @ Aug 12 2013, 06:20 PM)
so its worth while to MNP to maxis ?
Already considering this time as got LTE capable device.  grumble.gif
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Maxis: launched Jan 2013, smartphones April 2013 [3 months]
Celcom: launched April 2013, smartphones June 2013 [2 months]
Digi: launched July 2013, smartphones XXXX 2013

Looking at the trend, it takes around 2-3 months for telco to offer smartphones after their LTE launch.
So most likely Digi will have it in Sept or Oct this year. But this is just my guess, i may be completely wrong..

Technically CSFB is required. This is a matured features that has been implemented in almost all LTE network worldwide, and supported by all LTE phones. It is just the matter of tweaking the parameters in the network and working with phones manufacturers to fit their network settings.. Again, my guess it will happen soon...

If i were you I will wait, unless if my LTE phone is iPhone5, then I will port because Digi's LTE doesn't support 1.8GHz


alf233
post Aug 15 2013, 09:27 AM

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QUOTE(prosibu @ Aug 15 2013, 12:07 AM)
Sorry my mistake. The april was iPhone5, CSFB was earlier.. overlooked that..
THanks for correcting it

alf233
post Aug 15 2013, 09:32 AM

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QUOTE(Augus7 @ Aug 15 2013, 12:09 AM)
I don't understand the speed.

Say for example HSDPA+ is 42mbps, why at most, even when im right next to the tower, i never reach this speed?
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yes.. that's theoretical speed.. Even if you're alone and standing right infront of the 30W/40W antenna (very unhealthy), you will get around 30Mbps at most..

It's because of several factors, the codes utilisation, SNR, CQI, path loss, coding rate, etc...

This is the problem with wireless, it's actually the same with LTE which has theoretical peak speed of 75Mbps (current LTE network) but the most users can get is ~50Mbps.
alf233
post Aug 15 2013, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(Ahn3hn3h @ Aug 15 2013, 01:46 AM)
Malaysian fixed broadband sector has no competition except for very limited areas where Time and Jaring operates. The other mobile telcos were never serious in offering fixed broadband for desktop use because they are too caught up and confused in the traditional voice and texts lucrative markets.

Many of them only want the public to think that mobile internet is only confined to smartphones, iPads and tablets since they consume very little volume while they can continue milking the users like cows.

Fact is once you start using the modem on a desktop PC, the consumption of data becomes leapfolds from that of your mobile devices. There is high tendency that you would want to start streaming HD videos on your wide screen monitors and downloading big files/updates into your terabyte capacity HDD, don't you think so?

The mobile telcos don't understand this and none of them I can say is serious or even try to penetrate this sector. All I can say is that TM monopolizes this fixed broadband sector close to 100% except for very limited areas served by Time and Jaring. They really enjoy the comfortable position of not even having a single competitor that could offer an alternative.

They can safely bet with you that if you don't accept their monopolized unlimited DSL or Unifi packages, you can prepare yourself to pay through your nose with volume quota based wireless internet plans.

If we continue on getting those stingy quotas, how are we going to do cloud storage, IPTV, Netflix-like subscription and heavy videogame consoles/net apps updates?
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Mobile broadband (3G/LTE dongle) was never meant to replace or compete with fixed broadband (fiber/xDSL/copper) in the first place. They were never designed to be as fast/stable/reliable as fixed broadband.

If users are looking for fast/stable/reliable connection, then they should go for fixed broadband, not mobile broadband... I understand it may not be economical to some people to have fixed broadband, USB dongle & mobile broadband at the same time.. If you dont have the budget to have it all, the live with what you can, dont expect mobile broadband to perform like fixed broadband and keep complaining all the time.. (OK this will offend many people, sorry but this is the fact.. Mobile broadband will never perform the same as fixed broadband.. get your expectation right please)

alf233
post Aug 15 2013, 11:12 AM

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[quote=bysquashy,Aug 15 2013, 10:35 AM]
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[/quote]
You mentioned that mobile operator is never serious in offering fixed broadband. It's kind of an oxymoron isn't it? Mobile to provide Fixed.

One of the most expensive and finite resource that a wireless operator have is spectrum. To provide the experience that fixed broadband on wireless will require multiple fold increase of CAPEX (more spectrum and sites) to achieve which will then break the business model (ie. you would have to sell the service at a higher price than the fixed counterpart).

I can safely say that most operator understand what you are saying and this idea will be killed even during conceptual phase based on what I've mentioned above.
An analogy that I can provide is like saying why can't we have all taxis to be supercars so that we can provide similar speed to an airplane.
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[/quote]

Spot on..
alf233
post Aug 16 2013, 09:53 AM

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QUOTE(Ahn3hn3h @ Aug 16 2013, 02:22 AM)
It is not entirely true to say fixed broadband should not be associated with wireless models.

4-5years back both Time Broadband and Jaring had reached a certain level of success by offering the Webbit and SOMA Networks CDMA solutions that offered UNLIMITED fixed wireless broadband packages to users in cities upto 2mbps. It was until faster TM Streamyx and UniFi packages were introduced which caused their decline of use in urban areas.

Moreso moving forward from Rel. 8 Specs, early LTE has already been designed to incorporate simplification and adopt full data only services.

I'll share some important information to you about wireless resources base on rigorous studies made recently by telco vendor labs(vendor name witheld). Those who eager to know why Digi's 3G network and the other mobile telcos seem to have very frequent drop calls here's the answer:

It was discovered that data utilization which shared the same resources as fixed networks were not the cause of congestion in mobile telco networks but it was the high consumption of consistent L3 signalling(RRC signalling) that bogged their networks down

But rest assured the LTE specs beyond Rel. 8 has already made great improvements to improvise on this since it'll be optimized to handle pure data-play services including IP based VoLTE.

UMTS 3G networks used to have 5 RRC signalling states but with LTE onwards now they've simplified it to ONLY 2 for much greater efficiency - RRC_idle and RRC_Connected.

How inefficient UMTS for data compared to LTE?

Here are 3 scenarios:

With normal voice continuous calls - it only takes up 50 RRC signalling messages
Skype on idle in the background(using Android OS phone) 1 hr period - ~1400 RRC signalling messages
Use of Android MMO game for just 1/2hr period - 3000+ signalling messages

But this is no excuse for pure data WiMAX networks that was actually meant to provide fixed broadband services from the very start. Why did they end up getting confused and mixed up with package plans similar to UMTS/HSPA+ players?
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It has gone technical.. So let's go technical.. You're talking about "Smartphone Signalling".. It's indeed a huge topic...

It's good that you have discovered this issue.. This issue is not new, networks with matured smartphone market (e.g. AT&T, O2, SingTel) have seen this issue 2/3 years ago. It has already been addressed..

Whats the driver of this issue?
1. 3G network was traditionally designed for legacy devices/phones, which don't connect & disconnect to internet frequently.. (Last time when you use non-smartphones or dongles, you connect to internet for x minutes/hours, then go disconnect for x minutes/hours.. and so on).
Now with smartphones, with all the 'always on' apps (like facebook messenger, whatsapp, BBM, viber, wechat, etc).. your connections and disconnections happen in seconds, not minutes/hours anymore.. The connections & disconnections are mainly signalling messages.. This makes the networks get drastic increase in signalling messages & RNC processing utilisation..

2. There are several states for a device in the network, idle, connected, voice call, etc. (which is why you see battery life in phone specs for idle, calls, internet...). There is a timer in a network that tells the device to go to "idle" state when there is no more activity for certain time.. to prevent unnecessary disconnection & reconnection
For device manufacturers, in order to have longer battery life, they want their device to go back to idle state as soon as possible.. They dont care about signalling when disconnect and reconnect.. Hence they came out with a feature called "Fast Dormancy" which over-rule network timer and force the device to go to idle state as soon as possible..

How this issue is addressed in 3G & LTE
In 3G: by adding intermediate state between idle & connected
In LTE: DRX features is introduced, however there's trade-off with latency. DRX is not new feature, it's been there since GSM time..

For more info.. search around "Fast Dormancy"..
alf233
post Sep 13 2013, 10:07 AM

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QUOTE(cloud9_lee @ Sep 9 2013, 05:46 PM)
Why Telcos don't upgrade to LTE-A once and for all?
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The first step of LTE-A is carrier aggregation. Maxis and Celcom could easily aggregate their 1.8GHz & 2.6GHz spectrum today on the network side. However the issue is with device.

Although most LTE devices can support both of these band, none of them can do carrier aggregation. and almost all of them are cat-3 device, which can support DL speed of up to 100Mbps.

In order for you to enjoy LTE-A Carrier Aggregation, you will need a cat-4 device that can do carrier aggregation.

Today, you can actually count with your fingers the number of cat-4 devices that commercially available
alf233
post Sep 13 2013, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(blacktubi @ Sep 10 2013, 04:16 PM)


Meanwhile, my modem is ready for FDD LTE 800Mhz brows.gif
Bring it on TM, TM can easily kill every competitor.
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Your modem is band 5 or band 20 capable?

TM will be using band 5, or also known as 850MHz (that's what they currently have according to SKMM)

Band 5 is the same band used in Korea.

Whereas band-20 is more common in Europe. Most phones/devices with LTE800 capable are band-20

It would not be a problem anymore in future because new phone nowadays support almost all LTE bands. Even qualcomm is going to have their RF360 chipset
alf233
post Nov 6 2013, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(RAMChYLD @ Oct 31 2013, 07:49 PM)
For all the complains about Digi having piss-poor to no LTE coverage- I suspect it has something to do with Digi being majority foreign owned (Digi mostly owned by Telenor- Telecom Norway) compared to others which is majority local/crony owned. In other words, blame gomen cronyism.
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Not quite true.
- All of them got 2x10MHz of spectrum each.
- All of them have a commitment to SKMM to cover x% of population by end of each year, starting 2013.
- SKMM is transparent in approving AA, as long as the sites comply to the requirement. They will never stop any of the operators to deploy more than what they committed

The only reason why Digi's LTE is poor and late is money (CaPex, RoI, etc). Look at how much Maxis and Celcom spent for their LTE. I guess it wouldn't be economical for smaller players like Digi and U-Mobile to invest such amount.
alf233
post Dec 27 2013, 06:14 PM

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QUOTE(why.key @ Dec 18 2013, 10:52 AM)
then 100 Mbps is really talk kok.
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With LTE 2x20MHz, getting 100Mbps is technically possible, but practically very hard to get.

I was involved in numbers of LTE testing, and getting >100Mbps was not a problem

To get 100Mbps you will need few things:

1. LTE network that runs on 2x20MHz
2. A location with very good Signal-to-Noise Ration (SNR) of at least 25dB
3. Alone in the cell, no other users can attach to the cell, so that you will get all the resources.
4. Cat-4 devices

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