can u show ur artwork?

sigh.. people.. designers..

the whole reason nada- started this is to vent out his diappointment and findings so easily found on plagiarism and the like.

I'm not gonna side anyone here but act as an outside reviewer. I've been reading this thread and following thus far. Before it becomes a war of intellects or a "eh, move la! my car better than yours la. - Hitz.FM" scenario. I'd just like to share a few words and try to make peace with everyone here.

According to my investigation of this topic, the war began when dinodog_Jr said this. To my understanding of what he said, he refers that it's okie to copy as long the designer is responsible enough to admit it. This statement itself made it a double edged knife because you're saying it's okie to copy as long they admit it. You also implied that those who aren't honest would make you look down on them which strengthens the statement that copying is something should be allowed.

Before you say anything, just read on.

jayhan said everything well here and it's on the spot right. he refers that everyone has 'copied' from an inspiration and adapted into their work. a 100% style that's truely unique isn't easy to copy but it can be copied. just like what he said.

now, I can understand why nada- took it very personally and preached to all designers still studying. since he started the topic, his post was to instil a degree of justice and try to act upon plagiarism. That said, he's just being protective hence vented out his anger.

it sounded personal and like anyone here, i'd also be pissed if someone said that to me. however, if it was said then normally it's for a reason or it wouldn't be put into such a long paragraph.

in conclusion to all this, I think everyone should lighten up and retrace their steps of what they might've said or how they might've phrased what they wanted to say.

maybe what dinodog meant to say was to be a 'humble copycat', a designer who's copied an inspiration at least 60% should just admit it if asked. what nada- was doing was just protecting his belief and strong justice towards plagiarism.

so that's that about this topic. i should've studied law or become a negotiator at times. be at peace everyone..

p/s: just remembered I said this before..



This post has been edited by etsuko: Apr 28 2006, 10:27 AM

as far as practice is concerned, regardless in art or design, or even scientific academics, there's this thing called "acknowledging source". and the word is not COPY, it's reference or precedence or inspiration. never copy.

COPY is a negative word in the design world. for this, i stand by nada's aggresive stance towards the issue. not every designer out there is a trained designer, where even some are actually self taught by referencing works of others. there is a danger to this, for a designer have to be trained and well versed in the designer's ethics.

i'm quite worried, as i've earlier mentioned before in other topics, about people calling themselves designers, when they're not trained as one. designer is not just a post that u hold, it's the hold attitude. u dont become a designer overnight, and designing the cover of a school magazine doesnt actually make u a designer. but then again, a life time of doing posters wouldnt actually make u a designer either.

looking back at the topic, ALL designers (including artists) MUST acknowledge their source of reference. not doing so wont make u an irresponsible designer, but it'll make u an irresponsible prick not even worthy of the word designer. there is no such thing as a designer who doesnt acknowledge source.

i've given lectures on this, so i could go on and on, but then u'd have to pay me

Wat to do...since no copyright issue was cited to be effective on the content from internet especially in msia. Mostly copyright only apply in country like USA n other first world country. If here got, ready to sue... :tounge:

i think if the copyright were strong here.. not many companies will be suing because not all of em can afford to do so.. especially if the typical people knows this and a small time designer has created a hype for themselves.. these low lifes will just piggy back on the smaller one knowing that these small ones can't do anything about it..

why? because they don't have the money to sue..

bumpkan this topic so it's not left behind...

pump the bump!!

Filing a lawsuit is not cheap. Hence, not many people can do much for plagiarism, except teaching students of not to plagiarize, but it's inevitable students might plagiarize. Depends on one's self conscious to plagiarize, or not.

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/30480544/

here is a clear e.g. of someone ripping off other peoples pictures in DA.

He even used it as his own work and passed it off in a competition without notifying the photographers. Only when he posted it in Deviantart did he choose to send a letter to the various photographers whose photographs he used.

I send him a message asking whether he gained permission of the copyright pictures for usage, and he clearly replied "due to the timing and circumstance i did not have a chance to request permission for the final 12 photos used here. i had previously considered over 300+ other photos from deviantart fashion photography before finalizing on these 12, and did not have the resource to request permission for all 300+ and confirm which ones were ok to use before my assignment was due.

however to take responsibility, i posted the work here and messaged every single photographer whose work appears. so far some of them like it, one has chided me for not asking but has not asked me to remove it, and the rest have not replied me[/i]."

I replied with "[i]As a final year student and a design student you should know the basic courtesy of asking permission of usage of photos, you are sadly mistaken to use DA as a place for stock photos. Everybody knows you have to get permission for photos for using them especially if they are not stock photos.

Whether due to timing or circumstances please understand it clearly disrespectful and can be considered downright immoral to use people's work without asking and you are messaging every single photographer who works appear doesn't make it ok. How can you call yourself a designer if you dont even know the simple understanding of referencing and copyright issues? It is people like you who give the industry and designers a bad name, you are lucky if I dont bring this issue to theOneAcademy staff."

This student is from OneAcademy and recently i realise more and more students are using other peoples work without proper referencing or proper permission and copying. Hence this is why I started this topic, its a clear shame la really.

This post has been edited by nada-: May 21 2006, 10:38 AM

pergh... if that were my student, i'd make him my ex-student ASAP. later, i'll track him down to whichever design school he applies to continue his studies, and inform the administration about his/her previous behaviour.

i am not a desginer student, i just study programming.

but during my college life, the lecturer keep on stressing issues on pliagarism and reference.

i duno whether local designing college is teach student about all this copyright and pliagarism thing/??

they do.. and there are sources or powers that even promote them..and I ain't talking about friends.

yup, every design school in malaysia and virtually everywhere else in the world will teach u about plagiarism and copyrighting, and how that differs from referencing, precedents or idea generation. we have to understand that it's impossible to come up with something absolutely original nowadays, what we do is to be innovative in designing, and no two design are the same, bcoz each goes through a different design process and methods of development that differs from one designer to the other.

but sometimes what i'm worried about is the other self-taught designers that do not understand about ethics and professionalism in design.

both etsuko and azarimy are correct, it is compulsory for a design institution to teach you about these things and if they do not I would not think they are professional institution.

The problem here and most sad thing is that this student is a graduating student from theONEacademy, and he would be considered my senior and he practises his design in this method. He is an individual who has gone to a good design college who has learn the design elements/principles/pracitise/business and mindset and should know better. As said earlier it is an insult to designers out there really.

I also found 4 - 6 other students who plainly copied other peoples work from the net. I've already stated in the DeviantArt thread that we have here that please do not use the pictures and work there as stock or copy them. I've found countless individuals who have done this and some that were even close friends that I'm very very dissapointed with.

As a 'person' and not just a designer, where is their sense of integrity? How can you even hold your head up high when people pat you on the back for job well done?

Also I realise people are forgiven easily after they are found out they have plagarised others work. We should not be lenient on these people at all, swift action should be taken.

*sigh

This post has been edited by nada-: May 22 2006, 10:02 PM

to me just put sum watemark on ur design...end of story

but imho, i dun mind people stealing my work...i might be smilling when that day comes....

u can watermark artwork, but u cant watermark design. that's two different thing.

for example, how do u watermark a webdesign or a template? as for me, how do i watermark buildings that i design? matilaaa... and for example, i do lots of scifi/fantasy designs. not artwork, but designs. i couldnt care less about the artwork. but those designs are original designs. good 3D artist can build a 3D model of some weapon designs that i did in a matter of hours. so how do u protect that?

simple: dont show off ur works.

LOL. the vicious cycle starts again.

I don't know why do I think like this... it's a feeling after I read junkieG's comment...

well, me too would feel happy when I see somebody steals my works (though it's never happened)... especially in Malaysia, every great thing is sure to be pirated, so somehow it could be considered as a recognision when a product has been stolen... weird thought I have.........

With a mentality like that junkieG and StupidKhor you sure wont get far. Our works, our designs is not a multimillion production like a movie or a music album. We are simple designers who earn from our work. If a person is to benefit from you and you are happy that someone uses your work then you are also encouraging that everyone should do it. Can you have the common sense to realise the negative factors outweigh the positive factors by alot?

If you design is 'recognized' by others or you think your famous and your proud that others are stealing your work, than have you thought of the ethical side of it? Where you the person's self integrity if he has any?

Did you see what happen to a local company recently when they were supposedly copying an overseas website? Within 2 hours emails were sent out and practically alot of desigerns know. No matter what anyone says stealing 'copyrighted works' or plagarism it is a wrongful act whether you are 'happy' that someone has stolen your work so that it shows your recognition.

This post has been edited by nada-: May 23 2006, 10:27 AM

actually, you can't blame them for thinking that because they might've decided to just change the negative thought of design being plagiarized and allowing the other person to earn more than they do, to something positive like 'wow! my style/design is unique at a point that someone is trying to copy it.'

actually, as long other designers realize where the original originated from I think the plagiarism protection ethics will organically come in on its own.

for instance, the reason you noticed a plagiarism act is because you know where the works originated from. which is good and because it's this good, clients who understand these things will not use the person's work unless the copyright has been cleared up.

so for the clients who just allows this to happen later, it's either they don't know and aare waiting for other designers to tell them about it or are just being arrogant people who don't care about design at all.

hmm, mind to tell the rest of the story..? have not been following up here for a while. thanks

I'm not encouraging people to do it, that's why I used this word : 'somehow'... everything that has a negative side, should have a positive... I was just stating out the positive one, but I fully understand its negative effect is still greater than positive... but when you are angry with plagiarism, this is the way to control your emotion... I don't mean that you don't need to take any action, but you have to think of its positive side too, at least to calm down yourself... besides, this is truly a sign, a statistic of your popularity, it's a must to know this...