Stimulant preworkouts:
Controlled Labs White Flood 2, Driver Sports Craze, iForce Maximise Intense, Gaspari Superpump Max,

Stimulant free preworkouts:
iForce Hemavol, Omega Sports Ultima

One has stimulants like caffeine.
The other doesn't.

Look at the ingredient list and learn what each ingredient does.
And for the creatine, just look at the ingredient list again to see if there's creatine in it.

EDIT: When you say PER-workout, do you mean during workout aka intra-workout. Or do you mean PRE-workout, as in before workout?

This post has been edited by swks26: Jul 31 2012, 09:25 PM

Yea, PRE-workout lol.
Why don't you want creatine anyway?
Go for Controlled Labs White Flood or Gaspari Superpump Max.

Intra-workout Controlled Labs Purple Wraath or Purple Psyko, iForce Compete, Scivation Xtend, BSN Amino X; just to name a few.

Both pre-workout and intra-workout are not necessary.

My necessary list would be:
Protein
Creatine
Multivitamin
Fish oil

Others would be bonus.

Depends what creatine you're using too.

If you're using creatine like CL Green Magnitude or CL Green Bulge, then it has extra ingredients to help boost your workout.

If you're using creatine mono, then any time of the day should be ok.
Just remember to keep yourself hydrated.

When you're saturated, you can actually just stick with 2.5g of creatine, especially when you're on a real budget. But 2.5g-5g a day should be fine.

When you've got increased water weight, which you could probably visibly see.
Increase in strength and endurance. All possibly over 2-3 weeks?

Don't take my words as gospel though lol.

DS Craze
CL White Flood

you really need your fix of 1,3dmaa? Could have stocked up with online stores doing massive sales of their 1,3dmaa products lol.

If you're lucky, you could probably get jack3d off ebay.
Maybe try iForce Maximise Intense old formula with 1,3dmaa.

This post has been edited by swks26: Aug 10 2012, 11:36 AM

Ebay.com.au? Im in Aus too.

Yeapppp, i did 1 scoop, felt light headed.
Half a scoop worked for me. Felt the focus!!

The grape flavoir tastes very familiar. Like a cheap grape childhood sweet i've eaten before lol.

Wonder what the berry lemonade flavour tastes like.

This post has been edited by swks26: Aug 13 2012, 06:32 AM

Bodybuilding brand multi and fish oil differ a lot compared to your normal pharmacy found brands.
Check out the nutritional labels, the form/source of each vitamin, differs heaps.
For fish oil, you're looking at EPA/DHA content. You'd want at least 2g-3g of that for effectiveness. You can do the comparative maths

Could be the dye used in the protein?
I know when I take MHP Dark Matter blue raspberry flavour, my shit turns green because of the dye used.
But ... proteins don't really have blue or purple dyes do they? :\

I don't think Craze had that lawsuit going up anymore.
It was a problem back then, but not anymore and it's cleared.
It was on bb.com forums that it was slander. Otherwise bb.com wouldn't continue selling DS products.

Well, I take bb.com as a benchmark for what's good. There are some other good that aren't in bb.com like the current iForce (bad back then).

You probably got a stimulant crash.
Then don't take it if you're unsure whether it's positive for drugs.

Yes, you can stack them both together if you want to. Beneficial or not, that's up to you and your body to decide.
People normally stack a pump product with a pre-workout booster such as iForce HemaVol and iForce Maximise Intense. You get both the pumps and the kick from stimulants.

So it's pretty much up to you and how your body reacts.

You could also buy ingredients like beta alanine, creatine mono, citrulline malate, leucine etc etc individually and mix them yourself.

This post has been edited by swks26: Sep 8 2012, 09:19 AM

Why are you unsure?
Taste? Profile? Brand?

Both products are similar.. Just different ingredients.
Go compare the ingredient profile and the nutrition profile..
They're just protein. It's pretty much self preference now.

Malaysia's pretty slow in updating their supplements. So yeah, it's very possible to get the old formula.

Just sharing some stuff I've used before



iForce Hemavol
A stimulant free, pump preworkout supplement.
10/10 amazing pumps! Lemon drop flavour is pretty good, no complains.
Downside, might need 2 servings to get a really good pump making it expensive, but ingredients are top notch.


Purple Wraath
EAA supplement. I use this intraworkout.
Pretty good endurance and energy from this.
Purple Grape and Purple Lemonade flavour. Both taste good, but not the best. 7/10 taste.
Nice to use if training fasted.


EEFX Karbolyn
Carbohydrate supplement but not your usual maltodextrin, dextrose, waxy maize but a carb derived from potato, rice and corn.
Not a bad supplement. 1 servings gives you 50g of carbs. I use this in my preworkout drink especially in the morning before gym.
Orange shockwave taste good but nothing great. Tastes something like Tangs orange. But gets really boring.
Strawberry strike tastes fuarkkkiingg good. 11/10 taste!!

Stick with Green Mag!
Otherwise maybe MuscleTech Creacore or maybe Beast Creature
Or just Creatine mono.

Just mix it with any drink.
Just dump it into your protein.
Doesnt have to be grape juice.