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English Clubs Liverpool FC- The Kop Talk 2012, Liverpool 2-1 Everton- FA CUP FINAL NEXT

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ALeUNe
post Apr 11 2012, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(RedSiglap56 @ Apr 11 2012, 11:12 AM)
In that lovely movie "The Joy Luck Club", when the daughter burst out at her mother for expecting too much from her, the mother calmly replied "not expect, just hope"

How are we to EXPECT this or that from others? If the vast majority of the kops at Liverpool make it known that they EXPECT the team to win the PL, I would not be surprised if LFC will crash down the table. As armchair fans, we can at best hope and be more hopeful in some games. That's how I enjoy the Liverpool games all these years - if I slip into an 'expecting mode' I become very intense and may even lose my cool when the team does badly.

I don't know what's on KD's mind but i believe he did the right thing by benching Carra, Gerrard, Enrique and Suarez - in fact I wrote in an earlier post that I would do that. I also believe that LFC is desperately unfortunate this season - no, I believe that a team must play well consistently - but hit the post/bar so many times, to lose key players at the wrong time due to injuries and/or red cards?! wow..this must surely go down as a highly unusual season for LFC.  Not to mention the prospect of our 3rd choice keeper now playing in the FA cup semi-final!!

I HOPE that everyone will be lifted by this win and be courageous enough to keep playing according to plan. I HOPE that we will win the remainder of our games this season and win the FA cup.  I'm sure the management and players are all HOPING the same.  Let's all HOPE..

YNWA
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I was replying to weichieh007 where he talked about expectation.

Football is a business. Football is a profession. Every manager/player/staff has a target/result/KPI to deliver.
We need to work on EXPECTATION instead of HOPE.
We need to achieve targets (expectation) instead of we hope to achieve target/results.


Added on April 11, 2012, 11:21 am
QUOTE(weichieh007 @ Apr 11 2012, 11:03 AM)
Totally agreed with you there.  thumbup.gif
Kenny loves the club like any of us. He was passionate about the club and the football philosophy of the 'passing team'.
When I saw Roy's Liverpool; I only see Torres chasing long balls alone up front.
I just wish we had more luck with Kenny's team.
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May be I see a different game.
In fact, both Roy and King Kenny adopted a very similar tactic, long ball.
Long ball from defenders (Uncle Roy's), long ball from both wingers (King Kenny's i.e. especially from the left, Downing and Enrique).

It makes sense if we play target man, with Carroll in the team.
It doesn't quite make sense if we have Suarez as lone striker in the team. Suarez has been chasing the ball like a horse.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 11 2012, 11:34 AM
ALeUNe
post Apr 11 2012, 11:34 AM

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QUOTE(weichieh007 @ Apr 11 2012, 11:15 AM)
Then, what do you expect from Comolli as the 'head of football strategy'.

I wouldn't totally blame Kenny for all the new signings when these player hasn't deliver. What's the role of this Comolli guy anyway? Hide behind Kenny when criticism arise regarding these new signings?

Did Kenny points finger at this Comolli guy when things go wrong?

Can anyone please enlighten me what is the role of Damien Comolli?
(Apart from taking pictures with the new signings)
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What do I expect from Comolli?
If he can't deliver results, he should go too.

Let the result speak for itself. Fair and square.
ALeUNe
post Apr 11 2012, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(hfi @ Apr 11 2012, 11:37 AM)
I think you are being a bit harsh there. The first 20 mins or so, we played some of the best football i've seen us play this season. The 2 goals we scored looked so effortless, the total opposite of our usual laborious play. A lot of that is credited to younger players. Spearing and Henderson doing their part in the middle with Jonjo being the obvious link man between midfield and forward. Coates was immense, that paricular block after the blackburn player tried to unbalance him was amazing. He also initiated the move that resulted a winning goal. We were never in danger of conceding any goal until the send off. Only Flanno was a bit suspect in this game. That tackle was harsh and reckless. And the back pass was for Donni i think, but came off awfully short. There's nothing Coates could do about it. If anything it's probably more of Donni's fault. He was slow to come off his line, Reina would have been off line in a flash and punt the ball away to safety.

This was a very good win. The best win we've had in a long long time.
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Flanagan, obvious poor performance.
Coates, backpass of Flanagan, he was the last player and he didn't do anything or make any difficult challenge to Yukubu. He was just stunt looking (you can look at the replay). Yes, he got better in the 2nd half and made a good block.
Spearing. He worked hard but I didn't see the impact of his effort.
Henderson, I didn't see good link in the midfield (or I missed it?). To be fair, he played out of position shortly (after Doni sent off).

As for Jojo, yes, I think he linked well. He is the best young player on the field.
He has good brain. Just a bit weak in pace.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 11 2012, 11:51 AM
ALeUNe
post Apr 11 2012, 11:50 AM

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QUOTE(hyperyouth_firepower @ Apr 11 2012, 11:42 AM)
None, but at the very least i don't chide those pro or against KD as "blind". and not to mention to be wee bit "hey, its some light hearted stuff" okay?
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You can have faith in anyone. But you need justifications.

Why blind faith? Because looking at the results, I don't see justifications.
Faith without justification is blind.
If you disagree some opinions, debate with points.
Put up your points instead of asking your fellow kopites support other clubs.
ALeUNe
post Apr 11 2012, 11:53 AM

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QUOTE(hyperyouth_firepower @ Apr 11 2012, 11:48 AM)
Commolli's role involves more than just buying the type of players that we want. It also involves scouting, and a technical roadmap of how we project ourselves when it comes to game play, squad reserves, youngsters, etc.

I'll say the only way we can measure is that the foreign and non-scousser players he buys (in the interest of development, which is acceptable under the "homegrown" rules, etc etc.)

I can't really see a way to measure his success, though. THough I feel its more of like a calculated gamble on his end.
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Commoli should be sacked if he can't perform. No question about it.

Henry has too much trust in Billy Beane (I heard Billy Beanne recommended Commoli to Henry).


Added on April 11, 2012, 11:57 am
QUOTE(weichieh007 @ Apr 11 2012, 11:52 AM)
Successful passes up til 26 Mac 2012
Liverpool 11995
Newcastle 8753

Give me some time to look for the number of passes during Roy's time.
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It is better to look at goal conversion rate. '

IMO, players tend to lose the accuracy if he keeps chasing ball like a horse.

P/S
Remember Torres-Gerrard combo? They scored awesome goals.
You can see the clips at youtube. See how they made passes.
Sweet moment of football.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 11 2012, 12:00 PM
ALeUNe
post Apr 12 2012, 09:24 AM

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http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2303284/+0&#entry50474118

user posted image
With 110 millions, we can sign 4 of these players.

Look, match results is only one of the justifications.
We need to look at,
1) Match results?
2) Sensible signings?
3) Good football?
4) Stronger squad?
5) Future plans for the club (coaching system/scout system/youth academy)?


This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 12 2012, 09:26 AM
ALeUNe
post Apr 12 2012, 09:42 AM

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QUOTE(hyperyouth_firepower @ Apr 12 2012, 09:29 AM)
Aleune: They don't fit into the policy set by NESV / FSG.

If we count by personnel, we've bought more youngsters last season alone to be absorbed and tried through the academy ranks. Whether they are successful or not, we'll see.
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What policy as we spent 113millions on players?
What kind of transfer policy that cost us 100millions on flop players?

We bought more youngsters? According to wiki, we have signed 9 youth players in 2011/12 season.
I checked back the past record, we signed almost the same number of youth players.
Perhaps you can share your link here.

Get real. Let the results speak for itself.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 12 2012, 09:44 AM
ALeUNe
post Apr 12 2012, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 12 2012, 09:57 AM)
What 110 mil?

Were these available back then?

How can we compete with Roman if he wants them?   biggrin.gif
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Someone will come up with these players will not come to Liverpool. These players are not available. We can't afford the wage. Blah blah blah...

I just gave you the idea we could have spent our money wisely.
That is what i meant by sensible signings.
(Look at what we've signed... )

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 12 2012, 10:01 AM
ALeUNe
post Apr 12 2012, 10:03 AM

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QUOTE(hfi @ Apr 12 2012, 10:00 AM)
Maybe we should consider that those players don't even want to come to us in the  first place. We failed to qualify for even UEFA this season, for a lot of major players this is a big turn off. The policy is simple. Get relatively young players who has the desire to get on an unstable ship and ride through the storm. At the other side, the real Rafa's legacy awaits; the youth academy.
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Honestly speaking, UEFA qualification is one of the reasons.
It is not the sole requirement to get big names.

Remember how Chelsea and ManC started? They were mid-table before the owners started pumping bling-bling.
They signed big names with huge money. No?

P/S Besides, I think managers (with pedigree) can attract good players too.


Added on April 12, 2012, 10:04 am
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 12 2012, 10:02 AM)
Sensible?    biggrin.gif

Whats so sensible about these signings wanted by Roman?
Any signings by Roman may not be sensible.......maybe only sensible to Roman.

So to call that sensible?  ahem.......... 

Ok lets say you were KD in Jan 2011 and Torres gave you a transfer request 10 hours before the deadline,
what would you do?
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Reject the request.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 12 2012, 10:08 AM
ALeUNe
post Apr 12 2012, 10:09 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 12 2012, 10:07 AM)
And have a half limp striker on yer books?
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Off form player.
He is still one of the best strikers in Liverpool history.

We had already signed Suarez. Rejected the request of Torres.
Let the half limp striker play with Suarez.
ALeUNe
post Apr 12 2012, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(hyperyouth_firepower @ Apr 12 2012, 10:07 AM)
then how do you think we can get the money? By having the owners pump in year after year?

That model is UNSUSTAINABLE.

Look at Leeds. They projected their earnings, a lot of it from the "projection" of being able to qualify for UCL.

We haven't qualify for a bit, and I'm glad we didn't project our economic potential incomes that way.
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We are no way like Chelsea and ManC.
Yet we spent like having Sheik's money in a single season. That's my point.

I doubt we can get the kind of money every season.
And this is why I said there is a huge huge damage done to the club.
We did not spend the money wisely. King Kenny did not spend it wisely.
ALeUNe
post Apr 12 2012, 10:13 AM

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QUOTE(hyperyouth_firepower @ Apr 12 2012, 10:11 AM)
Our buy young policy, buy local policy, unless you're trying to be ignorant about it?

You, get real. You think we've got the money like the Sheikhs?

Even if S.O.S (Spirit of Shankly) had their way with board representation, we still won't be working like a Barca / Juventus / A.C Milan model, where the supporters that owns the club runs the club.

(and they fork out a hell lot of money to make it happen too)
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We have already enough locals to meet the requirement.

We did spend like having Sheikh's money.
ALeUNe
post Apr 12 2012, 10:13 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 12 2012, 10:12 AM)
Where did you get 110mil?
IF we didnt sell Torres?
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We don't need to pay Carroll.
Forget about Adam & Henderson and play Aquilani.
ALeUNe
post Apr 12 2012, 10:15 AM

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QUOTE(hyperyouth_firepower @ Apr 12 2012, 10:12 AM)
What guarantees can you make that Torres would 'recover'?

He's now in a 'BETTER' team (richer, higher league standings, still in UCL), and he's still CROCKED.
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You are making assumptions.

What guarantees Carroll will score like Torres?
What guarantees Suarez will score 30 goals in a season?
Speak sensibly.
ALeUNe
post Apr 12 2012, 10:17 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 12 2012, 10:15 AM)
He does NOT wanna play for us...............

You are jumpin the gun....if we didnt sell Torress, how to have 110mil?
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You are making assumptions.
Modric at Tottenham plays for the club.

If we didn't sell Torres, we did not have to buy Carroll then.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 12 2012, 10:19 AM
ALeUNe
post Apr 12 2012, 10:19 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 12 2012, 10:16 AM)
i guess Torress  guaranteed Chelsea 30 goals a season?

Speak sensibly...........  tongue.gif
*
Exactly my point.
It is no sensible to make assumption.
ALeUNe
post Apr 12 2012, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(hyperyouth_firepower @ Apr 12 2012, 10:16 AM)
In case you forgot, we had excesses of wealth by erasing our old debts, and new increased earnings from other avenues.

yet the FSG / NESV has decided the policy.

So you would rather buy all the players, and you think that works?

Go and ask other teams that have bought their way in. Or tried to. At what cost has it been?

Roman's blowing money. Man City's balance books are in the deep red, the Sheikhs are trying to circumvent the imposed sanctions.

and last I remember we got 50 million for Torres. Hell, a big portion of that money came from Chelsea.

Now how again Chelsea funded their buying sprees? Is THAT a sustainable model?
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You don't get my message.
I don't mean we need to spend like Chelsea.
I just showed you the price tag of big names.
ALeUNe
post Apr 12 2012, 10:23 AM

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QUOTE(hyperyouth_firepower @ Apr 12 2012, 10:19 AM)
Assumptions?

Anyone would have realized based on 'assumptions' alone that Torres was frustrated during World Cup and post-world cup.

Has Roy Hodson played Torres effectively? No.

Has KD played Torres effectively? (limited success)

and who brought the most out of Torres? Rafa.

And if stats doesn't lie, Torres was already scoring lesser, and lesser.

He was woefully short on goals during Roy's time.

Have I guaranteed that Suarez will score 30 goals?
Have I guaranteeed that Carroll will score like Torres?
But I can guarantee even if Torres stayed, he would continue to be a crock. All because of his attitude to the team and the club.
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Remember you first made the assumption Torres will not recover?

We get derailed. We were talking about spending the money wisely.
We sold Torres for 50 millions. We should have spent it wisely.


Added on April 12, 2012, 10:24 am
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 12 2012, 10:22 AM)
You are making assumptions, Aqualani is not Modric........

So the 110mil is a pre ssumption


Added on April 12, 2012, 10:22 am
You are the one making the 30 goal assmuption
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Aquilani?
I never meant to bring assumptions in my debate.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 12 2012, 10:24 AM
ALeUNe
post Apr 12 2012, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(hfi @ Apr 12 2012, 10:29 AM)
And where are we comparatively to Cherlsea and the ManCity ? Everyone and their dog could see those clubs were on the rise. Even Barry chose Man City over us lol. 

There's also another issue you've not taken into consideration when discussing about buying major players. Their salaries. We don't play enough to keep our players. We can't even keep Crouch because of his salary demands. It's one of the reasons why Mereiles left - why we are doing our best to offload Joe Cole and Aqualani. It's probably the reason why players like Maxi is on the sideline and as is Kuyt.
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Yes, we screwed up under the previous regime.

We are in better state now.
My point was, we can still attract players (without UEFA). Provided we spend big money (we already had).


Added on April 12, 2012, 10:35 amRafa on Torres.
http://www.rafabenitez.com/web/index.php?a...ioma=in&co=1498

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 12 2012, 10:35 AM
ALeUNe
post Apr 12 2012, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(hyperyouth_firepower @ Apr 12 2012, 10:38 AM)
No, it is YOU who don't get the bigger picture of things.

We need to spend big (because nobody's coming just by history alone), but we need to earn big (enough to lift an eyebrow when we offer contracts, especially those we deem as our targets).
We want to fight like champions, we must be prepared to lay the foundations.

Chelsea tried to buy a decade of history, it nearly worked for them (they are still one of the most successful clubs in the past decade), but instant success didn't come that 'instantly'.

A player's motivation to play is indirectly linked to how much he's getting paid.
Teams that are winning, has shown correlation in how much the team is paying them.

But you don't make money out of thin air. it comes from sponsors, merchandises, services, etc. Those are revenue streams. We have a small one, we need to make it bigger. Balance the books. Why? Its because we need to adhere FFP if its implemented. Even if FFP isn't in place, we can always guarantee that our club will be able to weather any financial crisis. Look at G&H era, we were servicing debts. Look at the last years of Moore's era; we couldn't even afford our targets!

And why local? Because the HG 6+5 rule is looming. We want to be prepared, to smooth sail it. Yes, we can have a team of Spaniards, BUT only if they were home grown (3+ years registered with the club before age of 21, and already we're placing the Academy in motion)

So if these players return to Spain (after spending 3 years in our academy, or at least affliated with our club), we've got nothing to lose, and if they stay they are considered 'homegrown' and ELIGIBLE to play, counted as local. The "we need more scouse" debate is not entirely loss to me, but that is their local preferences, not ours, it is ultimately still a scouse club, not ours.

Already we're placing in special means to circumvent, but having the players registered with our clubs, re-loan them back to their original clubs (in their original country) and monitor their progress through these clubs, as we did with one or two of our under-17 signings that we deem to have quality and potential.

Even if they don't make it, we can sell them, and still make profit. Profits mean more money for the bigger cause.
So tell me who's not getting the message now?
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Big picture? rclxub.gif
What you said are the valid points/facts. Exactly picture I get.
By the way, just to add a point, if we deliver bad results, we lose endorsement, sponsors, merchandise too.

Just pretty much derailed from my original message.

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