I think Shelvey has a good brain.
I find he can read the game well.
I believe he can be developed into a very good player for Liverpool.

Look at the list of signings of ManC, it makes a much better sense than what we have signed thus far.
At least we see a squad with full of depth.
Look how ManC spent in the past few years, they picked the best player regardless of their price tags.
The owner of ManC has no problem to spend. They have the capacity to "trial and error".

We do not have the bling bling.
Yet we spent 100+ millions like those rich clubs. The difference is, we spent big bucks on mediocre players.

P/S If my memory serves me right,, Rafa wanted to sign Kompany.
He didn't even have 6 millions to spend.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...sfer-kitty.html

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 8 2012, 06:25 PM

Let us be fair.
To give KK the job or to sack him - we need justification. I think that speaks louder than the blind faith.

Why many think KK should go because of the poor results and that 100 millions spent on flop players.
Do we have better squad (after spending 100+ millions)? No. It doesn't even enhance the depth of our squad.
It is fully justified why many think KK should go for he has not done a good job.

What is the justification to let KK keep the job then?
KK has to show the result. Fair and simple.
Has KK brought us good results? Forget about winning games for a moment, has KK brought us interesting football to watch? A stronger squad?

P/S
That 100 millions gone.
Are we getting another 100 millions to spend?
Likewise, I bet the owner needs justification to spend another big bucks on players.

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Added on April 9, 2012, 12:30 amFor me, that Carling Cup saved KK.
If KK can't win the FA cup, I think he will be sacked after that.

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Added on April 9, 2012, 12:35 amYou are wrong.
If it is Roy Hodgson in the same position, he would have sacked many months ago.
Likerwise, Rafa Benitez (under the previous club owner).

Why criticism? Poor results. Poor signings. Poor job.
No one made him a scapegoat.

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Added on April 9, 2012, 12:57 amhttp://www.uefa.com/uefa/management/financ...id=1661038.html

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 9 2012, 01:20 AM

1) Different scenario.
KK was not tested last season. His task was to save us from relegation. Some said his task was to unite the team again.
We were happy to be "mid-table team" as we thought Uncle Roy had caused enough damage to our team during the 1st half of the season.
KK is tested this season. With the expectation he would bring our team to top position again (otherwise our owner would not allow him to spend 113 millions in transfer market).

2) Different season. Questionable signings.
One good thing about Uncle Roy is, he signed Raul Meireles. He was one of our best replacements (with consistent performance).
KK made a sensible signing last season, Luis Suarez (he is the best signing of KK so far). We didn't doubt the signing of Andy Carroll last season despite his hefty pricetag at 35 millions (we thought the price is justifiable with the impression he could play as good as Suarez).
Signings of mediocre players continue in the new season.
We replaced Meireles with mediocre players. We puzzled with so many signings of midfielders during pre-season.
Questionable signings of mediocre players (with huge price tag on them).

3) Different season. Different KK. Just not good enough.
As mentioned, KK was not tested in previous season.
We were happy as long as he freed our team from relegation zone.
It is different this season. We don't expect our team in relegation zone.
Poor results. And this is the poorest run in our history since 1950s.
One thing we can point out is, mediocre display from "mid-table" players. None of the new signings has good performance this season.
Questionable tactics. Questionble appointment of players on the field. The depth of the squad is not improved (after spending big bucks on new players).
Awkward and embarrassing moment (considering other teams with lesser/no transfer budget are now on top of us).

Let the results speak for itself. We need justification.

Do not call your fellow kopites glory hunters.

They still support Liverpool FC despite the poor league position.
They still support the club despite the manager delivers poor results/poor signings.

No one is bigger than the club.

Look at the results, who is having fantasy?

I don't doubt your support for LFC.
I just pointed out you don't call other kopites glory hunter.

What sort of glory in Liverpool you see today? What's there to hunt?
I only see pure support from true fans for the club.

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Added on April 9, 2012, 10:41 amSpeaking of the league games, we have already had the poorest record in 10 years even if we win the remaining games.
I think they probably meant that.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 9 2012, 10:41 AM

Roy Hodgson didn't win the cups and titles and hence he should have more criticism than KK?
Double standard.

For me, all managers that deliver poor results and sign mediocre players get criticism.

For me, titles and cups are secondary.
The foremost thing I love to see is, Liverpool that play lively football (instead of ugly football).

His intention is good. No question about it.
Whether he can do the job or deliver the result is a different thing.

Just like Carra, his intention is good. No question about it.
Whether he can perform on the field is a different thing.

We need to get real. Let the result (that includes the signing of players) speak for itself.

As I said, there is justification why I think he should go.
To be fair, KK himself needs to (show results) justify why he should stay in the job.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 9 2012, 11:18 AM

Fergie had a good record.
He brought ManU to 2nd place during his first full season as manager. That has pretty much stamped his destiny as ManU manager.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987%E2%80%93...nglish_football
Besides, Fergie made sensible signings (Steve Bruce, Brain McClair, Jim Leighton). Those players had made immediate impact to the team (they played good exciting football).
He had also convinced the club owner with his coaching and scout system.
There were justifications to give Fergie job.

Now, let's compare it with King Kenny's.
Top position? No.
Sensible signings? No.
Good football? No.
Stronger squad? No.
A convinced coaching and scout system (that can bring the club forward)? No one knows, except Liverpool owner and the staff.

P/S
In fact, modern football is very different as compared to 1980s/early 90s.
Alan Shearer was a record signing @ 3.5millions.
Cheap wages. Cheap transfer fees in 80s/early 90s.
In modern football, Liverpool have spent 100+millions in a year. Expensive mediocre players and I don't think we can spend like that every season (unless we have an oil tycoon owner).

P/S
ManU and Arsenal can produce youth players from their youth academy.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 9 2012, 12:50 PM

Agger answered, We can't score the winner and this is the fact.

King Kenny should warn the players stop harassing the woodwork from now on.
He should start imposing heavy fines on those shots hitting the crossbar, £50,000/hit.

By your definition, Barcelona/Guardiola will not win cups & titles (aka yield the same results & same cycle) since they sacked Frank Rijkaard (who won the La Liga in 04/05, 05/06).

I think you got carried away.
Who said Roy is better? For me, all managers who deliver poor results deserve criticism, King Kenny included.
We did spend like having the wealth of Sheikhs. No? How many teams can afford to spend such kind of money in 6-8 months?

Spending money on good players is perfectly fine. Spending money on enhancing the depth of our squad is perfectly fine too.
But what have we bought?
Let me bring up the check list again,
Top position? No.
Sensible signings? No.
Good football? No.
Stronger/better squad (more depth)? No.
Good coaching and scout system (for future plan)? Unknown.

I do not think King King should be sacked now (keyword, NOW).
Many said he should go by the end of the season (not NOW - if he can't deliver results).
For me, he needs to prove himself that he is the right one for the job.
The Premier League is a gone case. FA cup is what he has now.
If he can win the FA cup, I think he has every right for another season (s).

Without discrimination, I need justifications more than the blind faith.

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Added on April 9, 2012, 9:23 pmAny tactic is fine as long as it can give us goals.

I find we always play long ball this season (this is what I see. You may see different).
It makes sense when we have big target man like Andy Carroll.
(But this guy could hardly hold the ball.)

But we have Suarez as lone striker most of the time.
We still play long ball (especially long balls from the left, from Downing and Enrique). Too predictable.
With or without Andy Carroll in starting line-up, long ball.
With or without Suarez in starting line-up, long ball.

Suarez? long ball? He chases the ball like a horse.
Andy? Long ball? Physically strong but he can't hold the ball. No pace.
I think that is tactically wrong (just my opinion).



This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 9 2012, 10:19 PM

Soltice, I just saw this message on liverpoolfc forum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9312_Premier_League
Statistically speaking, if we scored all 34 goals (that hit the woodwork), we would be 1 place higher in league position.
(24 out of 34 were the crossbar-hits in EPL game)



This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 10 2012, 12:27 AM

Yes, I think base on GD, points and % of win.

You said they'd yield the same result and now you say same can't be said about us.
You are shooting your own feet.

I can give you tons of examples in football.
Robert Mancini was sacked (poor run of European Cup. Defeated by Liverpool). By your definition, the successor Jose Mourinho would not win European Cup.
Flawed & selective arguments.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 10 2012, 08:23 AM

1/4 squad, the players signed by King Kenny, are pretty much a flop.

If you TRULY understand the same theory can't be applied to Liverpool and to every manager, then you should not say anything about yield the same results.
It is contradicting to begin with.

P/S
Barcelona is just an example.
Mancini/Mourinho @ Inter Milan. Arrigo Sacchi/Fabio Capallo @ AC Milan.
Gerrard Houllier/Rafa Benitez @ Liverpool.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 10 2012, 09:29 AM

I watched it.
Henry wants a guy with special formula? Or he wants a guy that delivers results?

The guy in money ball converted small money into big results (we need such kind of justification!).
The one we have now spent huge money but deliver poor results (results for now?).

Nothing in common. The pretty face & the fat guy with special formula don't spend big bucks.

P/S The ones in money ball delivered results in SINGLE season.

P/S Billy Beane in modern football in England - I could only think of David Moyes. In real life, Henry didn't get Billy Bean to Boston (he decided to stick with Oakland Athletics). Perhaps he will consider David Moyes "The Billy Bean" (if he loves "no budget big results")

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Added on April 10, 2012, 9:32 pmSpeaking of Moyes, I do not think he is good.
For some reason, we made him look good.

Anyway, why I said he is not really good.
Look at past managers in ManC/Chelsea. They need a manager (with pedigree) who can manage & control players like Robinho or Balotelli or Tevez (quality players with some "attitude" problem).
Get what I meant? Mark Hughes just could not manage it.
I think David Moyes and Mark Hughes are in the same league.
Modern managers like the "crazy man" in Real Madrid can do the job well.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Apr 10 2012, 09:39 PM