Yes, definitely nono to replace completely. Nokia really need to think this through and consider or they might loose majority of their customers. Smoothness and Reliability is not the only thing people care about although it's important and nice; but with all the limitations and restrictions, it's unbearable, and sounds unreasonable.

They could've been more successful with MeeGo, no necessarily go for Android, but they can still adopt Android (though, Android will need high specs, especially RAM to run smoothly). I suppose they don't want to spend too much effort in customizing it, but is it a must to customize Android for different manufacturer? Or maybe they can just do a simple one.
Anyway, I still think MeeGo is a far better choice, but just too bad they abandon again their baby. Even having Android as the primary device (got qwerty), I still use back my N9 when I need to make fast calls, Android is just too slow to respond), with N9, it's smooth and easily access to phone or contacts; Even camera, sometimes I just leave the camera open in multi-tasking window, I can access it easily and fast anytime (sometimes I set it in landscape mode, thus no need to auto-focus also). Plus, the double-tap to activate is really nice feature. I keep double tap with the Lumia 800... ended up have to press the button. This feature very useful when you place your phone on the phone holder, just double tap. With Lumia 800, I need to press the button on the side which is blocked by the phone holder.

---

Added on March 7, 2012, 11:27 amNo idea, don't have this problem.
But with N9, you can connect manually by editing the connection, set your own IP and DNS server.
Check your PC IP Address, Subnet Mask and Gateway, just follow it except the IP Address, the last digit can put any number between 2-254 (I think), as long not the same as your current PC or any other device using.
Example:192.168.1.X
Where X is any number between 2-254 (as long not the same as your current PC or any other device using. )
The DNS servers, you can set it to auto, or if you're using Streamyx or UniFi, set to:
202.188.0.133
202.188.1.5
If not, you can find out the DNS for your service provider.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Mar 7 2012, 11:27 AM

Not Nokia, more like Microsoft.

Windows Phone is like copying everything blindly from iPhone.

Since iPhone is successful, mainly for it's simplicity, smoothness, reliability and apps/games (also branding).
So, MS revamp their smartphone OS, applying simplicity, smoothness and reliability. App/Games need time and not fully control by them.
BUT, instead of taking the good and dropping the bad, they COPY FROM iPHONE EVERYTHING, including the bads, that is to sit in a jail, restrictions and limitations.
iPhone have iTunes, they must have Zune, even the name also must be in tune.
iPhone have Apple name (brand), they must use Mango, lucky the next one is Tango.
iPhone no microSD support, they also no microSD, but heard Tango may have?
iPhone got iCloud, they also come with SkyDrive.
iPhone don't like sharing files via bluetooth, they also must follow suit.
iPhone don't like letting PC access their internal storage memory, they also must follow suit.
Many more to list... basically, most of iPhone bads, they also "kiasu", wanna have.

The Apple is rotten, but can jailbreak and revive it become a silver Apple.
The Mango is a sour Mango although a little sweet (thanks to People Hub).
Just can hope the Tango can really Tango.

All Windows Phone.

Sending photo as email is still stupid lo. Any smartphone can do that. If you go and have reunion dinner with your relative, after taking a nice photo, they want you to send to them... would you say, "can I send to your email?" When they want the file send through bluetooth and they may not have data or even email.

No mass-storage, or bluetooth transfer to PC; Must use Zune.

YES, extremely unbelievable, it's sound so stupid, a smartphone that is actually stupid and unreasonable. I can't believe Microsoft implement this.
And do you know that Windows Mobile only allow 1 MOBILE NUMBER per contact? Another very stupid implementation.
From what I see, it seems their DESIGN of their database is not design properly, you can see like "Office 1", etc. If you learn about database design and based on what I can see, it seems the database did not "normalize" this part or make it flexible for flexible number of contacts. It is so weird especially coming from Microsoft, a software giant and a company which provides database management software as well as they themselves provides tutorial for normalizing a proper contact book to support flexible contacts. It really feels like this part was design and done by some fresh graduate (or could it be FoxConn? Shouldn't be I think), but it's really really unbelievable plus, before Windows Phone, they have vast experience in Windows Mobile and before that, Pocket PC OS.

Not sure, someone just mentioned this bug to me as well.

The Lumia 800 currently have battery issue, if ON data, it will drain very fast even no activity. I can feel the phone a bit warm in sleep mode.
When no data, on WIFI, there is no battery drain issue then someone told me about the Wi-Fi bug, I'm not sure as I THINK I still can receive email, need to re-confirm this. But there's an update for Lumia 800, so it may have solve this bug? Not sure, but it should solve the battery drain issue.

Basically N9 (MeeGo Harmattan) can be considered the most flexible and least restrictive compared to iOS, Windows Phone and Android.
So, you have least to worry for N9 (MeeGo Harmattan). The only thing is, if you compare apps and games, then N9 have very little and currently no WhatsApp. BUT, actually many apps/games, is not important, what's important is to have those useful and popular apps/games, especially those which you really need.
For most people, they will need WhatsApp;

Officially, WhatsApp isn't not available for N9, but there is someone working around to bring it over unofficially.

---

Added on March 7, 2012, 8:44 pmHm... I see, but I didn't have any SIM card back then; I can't remember if the mail I receive during sleep/lock mode or not. Need to wait till I get the device only can test and confirm.

Anyway, that's a good article to point out some silly simple problems of Windows Phone, which some I don't think Nokia can do anything. If comparing with Symbian/MeeGo, there'll be so much to list, LoL...


This post has been edited by Andy214: Mar 7 2012, 08:48 PM

Well, you know. Because iPhone got famous, everyone starts to follow what it do BLINDLY. I guess it's fail management mainly. Instead of taking the GOODS and dropping the BADS, they take EVERYTHING (good example: Windows Phone)

It's not just micro-SIM; iPhone got no homescreen, some OS also try to follow suit. Epic Fail.
The main reason iPhone got no homescreen is because it was not a smartphone OS or mobile computer to begin it. It was never a smartphone, it you trace it's ancestor, you will find that it as iPod! Yeah baybeh! MP3 Player.
Then as technology moves on, we have multimedia player with big display to play videos, etc. and then touchscreen, there you got it, iPod Touch.
Suddenly, they want to venture into phone, so, add in the phone feature, yay, it change the world, iPhone!
Thus, it never have those mobile computer traits or requirements, etc. that's why no bluetooth file transfer, must use iTunes! This and that restrictions, etc.

Now, in the first place, why in the world did Windows Phone copied iPhone?
So, is Windows Phone a evolution from the Zune Media Player????? A new evolved Zune Media Player with Phone feature? If so, then where is Windows Mobile replacement?


It's really weird and hard to reason when manufacturers copied something that is BAD from another successful product, AS IF, they don't know how to differentiate the GOODS and the BADS; Just because it's successful, then just FOLLOW, without differentiating.
Not just micro-SIM, same goes for non-user replaceable battery; what else? EDOF on E7?

No need to be an Apple standard. When they introduced iPhone, they have successfully changed the world.
They set new standard and change how and what is mobile computer phone (aka smartphone). Before that, Pocket PC --> Windows Mobile, Symbian, etc all were aiming to provide a better mobile computer experience, a true mobile computer (pocket sized computer; hence Pocket PC); But then, iPhone came.....
Hence why,... many professionals disregard iPhone as a smartphone; In the first place, it's not even one, it's just an iPod Touch with added Phone feature.

But then, for the general public, they don't really need a smartphone (as in mobile computer), especially back then, most people are still not computer literate and cannot even use a computer properly. Hence, a simple phone that can play music, videos is good enough, a multimedia player which also support apps/games.
Who really need a mobile computer anyway? Most people take their smartphone to play games, and some apps for social networking.



This post has been edited by Andy214: Mar 8 2012, 09:42 AM

Well, before iPhone, a smartphone purpose was to become a mobile computer, a pocket computer. Hence, last time the big debate smartphone vs non-smart/dumbphone, people always talk about having a phone with computer capability, etc.

iPhone really change the public's perception, that's mainly because most of the general public are not computer literate or don't know how to differentiate, or can say, it's not important to them; Most of them, as long as it can play videos, music, web browsing, and install apps/games, is good enough. This you don't need a mobile computer or smartphone, you can make do with a multimedia player like iPod Touch, or some others which was never classified as a mobile computer.

Anyway, for MOST IT Professionals, they won't regard iPhone as smartphone; My colleague went to SG, in SG almost everyone carries iPhone, but the IT staff there, none of them carries iPhone, they don't regard iPhone as a smartphone and doesn't like their idea of an OS which gives restrictions and limitations.
Imagine purchasing Windows or Mac OS, then you only get "Guest" account with many restrictions and limitations. It's just so... wrong. It's so wrong because it's not common, but if it's common, then we won't feel this.

In my opinion; If iPhone was a truly smartphone as in a mobile computer, they would've make a mobile version of Mac OS. But I guess they want to venture into mobile phone, but did not want to create another OS, instead they use their existing technology, the iPod Touch. Hence, why it doesn't feel like a true smartphone or mobile computer, because in the first place, it wasn't.
Before iPhone, did anyone regard iPod Touch a mobile computing device?

Good info there; Yes, that's how I see it too, to sit between iOS and Android, but if we put in MeeGo, it's a better choice; It's just sad that it was abandon and born pre-maturely. It has many potential, when it matures, it can easily outclass all the other OS, it has the smoothness and reliability of iOS, it can also be more flexible and powerful than Android (they should add a proper Desktop homescreen on MeeGo as it matures, it can be an option for user who prefers it).

As for the reason about "strips all the complexity out & make it simple as possible to do something". If the complexity you mean is the power and flexibility, then I STRONGLY DISAGREE this part.
I'm a software developer myself, this is SO WRONG. you don't STRIP, you MAKE IT SIMPLE but still maintain what it can do.
Example:
Photoshop is a powerful tool, complex, etc. You don't STRIP away what it can do to, you make things simple and provide easy access to features, make it more user/beginner friendly.
Cameras can be very complex, but you don't STRIP away, you make easy access or functions for users, like "SCENE modes", "Intelligent Auto", etc.
In you talk about iOS and Windows Phone, the OS is like removing everything, and only provide you with AUTO and SCENE modes.
That is so wrong to me and it's not the way... BUT think about it... in a way, it benefits them:
1. User will never improve and advance, they will rely on it.
2. When they touch something more complex, they can't cope and will not use it. HARD FACTS: Change is hard. (somemore trying something new)
This way, in a way, they will make their users stick to them (except those that will explore and want freedom or soemething more).

Yes, not a bad design, but many people dislike this idea. It makes the design of the phone nicer, but make people still don't like it because you remove their freedom to replace battery; Or when the device refuse to start, you have no options to remove the battery and try another battery, and so many other reasons.

It were used by Nokia before, iPhone too. Later Nokia have autofocus is most (if not all) their high end devices. I think in somewhere sometimes, there were talk/critisize about iPhone's EDOF.
If not wrong, Jobs gives lame excuses like "it's fast, there's no need to waste time to focus" or something like that.
That's just plain lame.
First of all, auto-focus is a feature, you should made it available and let user to turn it OFF or ON. It should also have options like "only capture when focus is lock, or you can capture even not lock" which is for continuous auto-focus mode. Even with those that have no option, I simply just switch to LANDSCAPE mode, it works like EDOF........

Somehow later, Nokia adop EDOF on the E7, which looks like the N8 but with qwerty.
Then, they give the similar lame reasoning.

Yes, but I didn't say need to remove the power & flexibility

You see even compact camera, they still give more features/options instead of just "Auto" and "Scene mode"; Even if people only use "Auto" or "Scene mode", doesn't mean there is need to remove others or in other words, don't let people learn and explore and you pay the same amount with of without.

To make OS simple, they can turn OFF advance mode, or turn off this and that by default. Let the user decide what they want.
Don't like homescreen? Just turn it off.
Don't want background task running? Just turn it off, or have options to control by apps.
When designing a software, all these are pretty basic.

Not as simple as that. There is cases where the device "hang" or "not responding". Holding the power button does nothing.
For iPhone I think you need to hold power and home button combination for X seconds, which will trigger the the force shutdown.
For Lumia 800, you need to press the vol down and power button, I think.

Even so, if let's say the battery have problem. You have no idea and have no option to replace it.
Imagine this, with Windows Phone, you add your social network accounts, emails, etc. Your device suddenly fail to start. You can't remove the battery and replace with another to try.
You can't remove the battery for few seconds/minute to reset the internal memory or something.

If it's just battery, supposedly it's simple, but now it's not; Your only option... send in. What's the big deal?
You can't do hard reset, etc. --> When they replace your battery, they start your device, wallah, they can access your email, your social network accounts, etc, your personal files, your photos/videos, etc.

Yes I know, just saying the scenario above about the time when the "excuse" given by Jobs and Nokia was saying about auto-focus, then later suddenly E7 comes with EDOF, and then give similar "excuse".

Actually, I don't see pros.
With N8, N9, you can set it to landscape mode which works like EDOF.

Basically, EDOF is missing the auo-focus or focusing capability, it's locked.
With auto-focus, we have options to select our focus or adjust it.

How to autofocus in landscape mode?
Landscape mode doesn't have the focus box. You press and hold the on screen shutter also nothing happens.

Are you using Landscape "SCENE" mode.

Not orientation Landscape/Portrait, lol

Yea LOL! Missing one keyword "scene" made a big difference.
Landscape and Landscape.
Portrait and Portrait.

LoL
sexcited
sexpert

Reading that, I believe he's the one burning the Nokia now by ditching everything and going full force Windows Phone.
In the first place, if they're on a burning platform, why choose Windows Phone over Android when everyone is supporting Android; Isn't they supposed to listen to the customer and meet customer's demand?
Secondly, there's no need to ditch MeeGo or Symbian.

Lastly, Maemo/MeeGo is slow because they didn't put enough man-power or people into it, not much attention and effort was given; It's like treating Maemo/MeeGo as a backup or adopted baby.

Plus, talking about attracting developers. What rubbish is he talking about? Firstly, you need to make sure you have enough users, secondly, take the initiative to invite and attract developers. When the platform can make money, developers will go. Even I don't like iOS restrictions and limitations, if I were to decide which platform to develop my app/game, my first choice will be iOS because I have high chance and can sell my app/games easier, there's more customers.

I do hope WP will change, but seeing it's base and where it comes from. I don't think much can change.
Can they remove the restrictions and limitations? I doubt it.
It may be able to provide more than what iOS provides, but can it satisfy those true smartphone users?
I've given the Lumia 800 to quite a few people to try/test, none gives positive feedback, of course these are all smartphone users who truly enjoys the customization, flexibility. Suddenly using something that doesn't have this, it feels like downgraded/backdated and feels very restricted. To add on, when I'm using it, I feel very stupid many times and question why as it really sound unreasonable to restrict or have such limitations.

Personally, I would say it's not suitable for everyone. For people who can live with limitations and restrictions like iPhone, they may not have problem with this.
BUT for Nokia, they have many loyal users who are not the young generations, they may not really use a computer, they may not use the internet, not to mention emails, etc. So, the Windows Phone is really useless already, plus it requires a Windows Live ID, it requires Zune, etc.
Even with Symbian's bug and lagginess, seems they can bear with it, but what about the limitations and restrictions of Windows Phone? Cannot send files over bluetooth? Imagine what will they think or say.

Will Windows Phone actually save or help Nokia? Or make it worst because many of their loyal users, were not actually the young generations. Younger generations are into brands, latest, etc. How many young people love Nokia? I don't know, I know they prefer Samsung, Sony, etc. Maybe Nokia is trying to attract these people, can they do it with Windows Phone (when most of them prefers Android) and at the expense of loosing their loyal customers who are not really into technology and internet?


Actually there is another issue, although rarely, whereby you force shutdown (remove and put back battery), but there is problem with booting up.
For this problem, we remove the battery for few seconds or longer, then put back the battery and try to boot again, and it will be successful. So, with non-user replaceable, you can't; But the service centre probably did this first when you send in.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Mar 8 2012, 02:50 PM

Is Android Google account is mandatory requirement? I can't remember.
For Windows Phone, if I'm not wrong, it's a requirement as you need it for adding contacts. Need to re-confirm this when I get back the device.
Apple ID is not mandatory right? Only for App Store?

I highlighted this to Nokia people before about the older generation; but seems they're not so worried or no choice since already using Windows Phone... Well, at least right now, there is choice of Symbian. If they go full force (as what they're planning), it may become a problem. I'm not sure the full force include those low end devices, but then still have older generations who use their high end devices and don't use computers/internet/etc.

Nono, I tried very hard to write so people doesn't think like that lol.
I mean, there is many senior citizen who is loyal Nokia users. Many of them may not be really use the computer, not to mention internet and email. They may already used to taking photo/videos and share file to their friends/relatives.
So the Windows Phone limitations and restrictions, will really affect them.
It's not necessary only senior citizen, there's still people, even young generation, that don't use or own a computer.

What can I say; Usually the person sitting on top or decision maker, they may not see things customers see. The most weird part is, how can they restrict the simple thing such as file transfer. How can they overlook this? It's very extremely unbelievable to me, and it's already version 7.5; What about the MS employees. Are they even using Windows Phone? Or they don't send files at all.
Sure you can upload to SkyDrive or send by email, but still, it's stupid to cutting/removing one of the main/common and widely used method.

LoL yea;
Android, no apps still OK la, you got nice homescreen can customize, got widgets, etc. (Of course, some still need to download)
iPhone? Unlock you see apps menu. Totally nothing to do, it's just like the non-smartphone era.

I skip Windows Live ID when I first boot. I think we can skip the Live ID for normal phone use as I remember the first time I test it, I test without any sim card or internet connection. That time, really nothing to do, only play with the camera.

I thought before Mango (7.5), it was Windows Phone 7? Then comes to Mango update which brings copy-and-paste, multi-tasking, etc.

Yup, in US, there's probably hardly any issue with internet availability (but still, is it everywhere in US?).
Still as a software developer, it's wrong to not consider more and only think about their own.
Finally, removing the main/common widely used method for file transfer is another weird implementation. Just can hope they will change their mind on this.

Oops, misunderstanding, hehehe.

Yea, it's not bad upgrade and actually if we don't look at it against other smartphone; It's actually very smooth and nice. They just need to loosen it a little, gives more flexibility to the user (such as file transfer), and some other minor issue, it could have satisfy many users (or can live with at least.).
As current, there're many complaints from past Nokia users, you can also read it in Nokia Malaysia Facebook, how frustrated they are after using Windows Phone. Some of them are long time Nokia users, and the ads and campaign on Nokia Windows Phone, they get one, the first experience is surely nice, smooth, fast, etc. but later they will start to feel the frustration due to the limitations and restrictions.
If they're iOS users, then maybe no as bad, but if they're Nokia Symbian users, it's kind of like a big impact, and all this is not mention or known to them before they made the purchase.

For file transfer, they can enable it in Picture Gallery, etc.
Example, when I'm viewing Picture, I choose "Share", but there's no Bluetooth option.
There is no file manager, so you can't share anything else. You're only allowed to see what you can see.
Even my friend use, he said he downloaded an excel file, but cannot find it anywhere; No idea where it went.

Anyway, I can just say, the Mango tasted sweet at first, but it's very sour after you taste it more. Though, there's still some sweetness (People Hub, Office Integration, Mail, Voice Command/Recognition/to Speech).
Next is whether it will really Tango or not, lol.

Sadly, right now, Windows Phone will be my 2nd last choice, the last being iPhone. The People Hub is really nice, but MeeGo also has it and it's still better.

But not all device have NFC and maybe they also restrict it since they restrict bluetooth. But let's wait and see. Tango is said to support external storage? If yes, wonder how they control.

The excel seems not in the Office there, possibly the file did not save successfully or something; no idea as it was statement from my friend who tried the device.

File System yes;
I don't find any reasonable nor logical explanation for sending photo over bluetooth.

But then, MS should know better about preventing piracy; If so, they would've done the same to their Desktop Windows. It's just so not MS.
What they did to the phone, it makes it like a those specific controlled media player device which only allows you to do something, such as going to their proprietary software. This doesn't make it a smartphone anymore, perhaps these type of device needs a new category.
If a mobile computer with added phone functionality is called a smartphone.
Then they should give a new name for multimedia device (like iPod, Zune) with added phone functionality a new name/categor, like mediaphone or something.