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 Lawyer's Corner v2, One-stop centre for any legal queries

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TSdariofoo
post Nov 16 2012, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(petlu28 @ Nov 16 2012, 01:49 PM)
Dear Dario,

I will selling my house soon. May i know if i use back buyer lawyer what good & bad to me????
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This question has been asked many times before. You can read the earlier posts in this thread and also in v1 of this thread to get an answer on the pros and cons of tumpang the purchaser's lawyer vs appointing one of your own.
TSdariofoo
post Nov 16 2012, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(sangaran @ Nov 16 2012, 04:35 PM)
usually for a normal sale of a house, how long does that IRB to process the CKHT to see whether how much to tax  or to refund the seller?
Do we need to go to IRB to check from time to time?
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Hard to tell as the efficiency differs from branch to branch. Fastest I've encountered is 6 months while the longest took around 1 year after much pestering. You must understand that they have a lot of files to process, hence the delay.

If you have a lawyer your lawyer should follow up from time to time.
TSdariofoo
post Nov 16 2012, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(sangaran @ Nov 16 2012, 04:43 PM)
haha.. okay thanks ... between 6months to 12 months then..
i asked my lawyer many times .. she always says 'I dont know .. go ask the IRB!'
rclxub.gif
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Yeah you can follow up on your own as well.
TSdariofoo
post Nov 19 2012, 02:18 PM

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LAWYER'S CORNER WILL BE TAKING A BREAK

Off for an outstation trip. Will be back tomorrow evening.

All queries will be answered by Wednesday.

Thank you for your patience and sorry for the delay.

Cheers. icon_rolleyes.gif

TSdariofoo
post Nov 21 2012, 04:32 PM

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QUOTE(Louiz @ Nov 16 2012, 07:58 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Q1 My lawyer took about 2-3 months to proceed the S&P agreement draft. I'm not sure my lawyer or purchaser lawyer delaying the process. Just why can't my lawyer proceed MOT1 while wasting time there?

Q2 How long it take to proceed MOT1(trustee to vendor) and MOT2(vendor to purchaser)?

Q3 Since the S&P is signed by both parties, if the S&P stamped, is the purchaser able to apply loan without the MOT1? If is capable, then the loan will be approve within 3 months (at same time MOT1 done), this mean I get my 2% as booking fees before and receiving 98% at the same time regardless of my S&P. What's the point 8% upon MOT1 stamped and adjudicated and 90% from the date of MOT1? Make no sense right. If my lawyer is not honest, they may just told me that the balance of 90% will be received 3 month from the date of MOT1 although my lawyer received it earlier, just to to enjoy 3 months FD. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thank u
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Q1. No comment.

Q2. Depends on the efficiency of the parties, LHDN, etc.

Q3. Yes he can apply for loan even before the SPA is signed. For the letter of offer to be issued, it does not require MOT 1 to be out. Even for cases requiring consent, the bank can issue the LO.

Completion date to run from the date of MOT 1 is correct.

8% shall be paid to you upon receipt of MOT 1. Why do you say that you'll receive 98% at the same time? I think you are confused. 90% will be at the end of the completion period. 8% will be at the date of MOT1.

It is you who would be enjoying the proceeds from the FD, not your lawyer. I've informed that to you earlier.
TSdariofoo
post Nov 21 2012, 04:40 PM

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QUOTE(richiekueh @ Nov 17 2012, 12:17 PM)
is refer to instruction to my solicitor to prepare the security documentation for banking facilities
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Ok. I thought you meant a letter informing you to pay your first instalment. That is a letter of instruction and the deadline is not really strict but serves more of a guideline. Even if it is missed, it does not affect the LO.
TSdariofoo
post Nov 21 2012, 04:42 PM

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QUOTE(theproblemkid @ Nov 18 2012, 11:36 PM)
Hi All, please forgive me if this is the wrong section but would like to seek answers for 2 queries regarding sub sale purchases:-

1. How long do I have to pay up the stamp duty and lawyer fees?
2. Any other misc expenses that I should be aware of?

Thanks in advance
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1. Best would be at the same time as execution of the SPA.
2. You can check the many samples available in version 1 of this thread to compare and check what disbursements normally payable.
TSdariofoo
post Nov 21 2012, 04:42 PM

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QUOTE(nevergonewrong @ Nov 19 2012, 09:29 AM)
is it true that offer letter (MBSB) should be signed not later than 3 weeks? I am still waiting on the other banks though..
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The LO should state the validity period.
TSdariofoo
post Nov 21 2012, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(creap @ Nov 19 2012, 09:14 PM)
Dear Dario,

I recently found a sub-sale property and proceed to make the necessary booking of 3%. However, up until today (2 weeks plus), the owner still refuse to sign on the booking form. Can I take any action against the owner since he is delaying the process? Am I able to seek compensation for the time spent talking with bankers and looking for lawyer?

Thanks
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Whatever rights you have would be stated in the booking form/offer to purchase. Refer to it. If you want to abort and get a refund of the deposit, that would usually be it. You cannot seek compensation for other expenses incurred unless parties had agreed to it in the booking form/offer to purchase.
TSdariofoo
post Nov 21 2012, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(petlu28 @ Nov 19 2012, 11:25 PM)
Dear Dario,

In my DEED OF MUTUAL COVENANTS

5.11 Sub-sales

Purchaser shall have paid all monies, service and other charges due and payable by him under the Sale Agreement and this Deed and PROVIDED FUTHER that such transfer or assignment shall be in a form and substance acceptable to the Vendor and subject to an administration fee in the sum of Ringgit Malaysia Five Hundred (RM500.00) Only or zero point five per centum (0.5%) of the purchaser price of the said Parcel whichever shall be lower.

My question are is it this rules still available? I hear from bank officer look already change administration fee RM50 only.
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What was the date of this agreement? And is it a residential or commercial property?
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post Nov 21 2012, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(suat1971 @ Nov 20 2012, 11:40 AM)
Dear Dario,

Recently I have sold one property

The document signed, our  agent's offer to purchases have included " sales included : club menbership'

However the sub -sales SNP ( prepared by Lawyer ) : don't mentioned anything about the "club membership".

Can I now. Not to transfer the membership to buyer? The SNP should prevail right?

I am rather not very happy with our Lawyer slow moving act and always helping buyer rather me ( seller)

I am selling the unit ( landed freehold) and using buyer lawyer.

Thank you.
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1. SPA should prevail.

2. You cannot mention the purchaser's lawyer as OUR lawyer. There's no such thing as sharing lawyer. You are deemed to be acting in person and the purchaser is one who has a lawyer. You merely authorise that lawyer to do the redemption/discharge/CKHT forms for you. He has no duty to act in your interest. he has no duty to help you (whatever you mean by the word help).

If you are lucky, you get a fair lawyer who does not trample on you to benefit the purchaser (eg delay redemption in order to extend completion date). Otherwise, you're in for a tough luck. At least you save legal fees, which would've been the main point of not appointing a lawyer in the first place.
TSdariofoo
post Nov 21 2012, 04:53 PM

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QUOTE(MoreProps @ Nov 20 2012, 03:45 PM)
Dear Dario,

I have purchased a leasehold prop with master title and I have instructed my lawyer not to lodge a private caveat. Recently I received the bill for the legal fee and found out that they charge me for private caveat in loan agreement (total rm720). The reply I got is that I can only waive private caveat in SnP but not the loan agreement. I was informed that this is necessary for my bank to release the loan. Is this true?
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Some banks insist on lodging a caveat even on master title, but most don't. Easy way to find out if it was done is to ask for the receipt from the land office. That ought to prove it. Some unscrupulous lawyers would charge for lodgment of caveat but never do so, as the banks do waive the requirement in some cases.
TSdariofoo
post Nov 21 2012, 06:07 PM

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QUOTE(koohuichin @ Nov 20 2012, 11:47 PM)
dear dario lawyer, thanks for spending ur precious times to lend us useful hand.i had bought a condo in kl from a bank.as the owner of the hse is a singaporean who had owed his bank quite big amount of money.The bank didnt take the hse for auction,yet take it as normal subsale to get back the money as the singaporean hasnt bancruptcy and now doing his business in australia.In 1992, when the singaporean asked for the loan,he had signed an authorization letter, the letter signed and choped by notary public in singapore as withness, black and white to show that he had given the right to the bank to sell off his houses anytime if he is not able to pay back the debt,n this authorization letter had been validated at high court malaysia in 1992.

Initially,agent didnt tell me about this issue,agent only told me it is property of bank,hence,i decided to buy and i never expected i have to go thru all these difficulties. I signed and paid the booking fee 3% in early of march 2012. And had assigned a lawyer to run everything for me(he is my friend infact).my nightmare started since march.

The s&p only come back to us on 29th of may 2012,after 2 months+ pending at the bank (the bank is in singapore,but they assign a kl lawyer firm to run the show). Just FYI, the s&p signed by bank officer attached with authorization letter,not by the vendor himself,and i had given 4 months + 2 months to settle the loan. 10% downpayment had been paying to the lawyer of singapore bank.

I signed the bank loan offer letter in june. When we proceed for loan agreement, panel lawyer of loan bank suddenly didnt want to accept the authorization letter,as they claimed that the authorization letter should signed and choped by lawyer,not by notary public. Loan bank lawyer gave us a better option, they wish we can get the owner to sign the s&P. Therefore,the things pending all over again.

Lawyer of singapore bank promised wil settle the issue and chase for the vendor signature. I was waiting patiently at initial phase. In september.my lawyer told me,my s&p is on the way back from australia,asked me to b patient. Until october,i cant even c any pc of black n white,my lawyer claimed he had given lawyer of singapore bank a buzz,they claimed the owner was in china now for business trip,wil b back by end of october,ask me to b patient again. Until end of october,the s&p havent come back to me.i was literally agitated,i got the contact number from my lawyer, and ring the bank officer in order to talk to him personally. The outcome of the conversation literally pissed me off. The bank officer claimed they were doing ntg in singapore actually,the s&p sent to neither any party nor any country,just putting on his table. He claimed my lawyer is too much,they able to sell numerous of houses with the same authorization letter (as the singaporen owner has more than 20 houses in malaysia) except mine. He said all of the notary public in singapore are lawyer, thats mean, the person who signed the authorization letter for sure is a lawyer. He recomfirmed he will never able to get the vendor signature to put into the s&p,asked me to discuss with my lawyer and fix it up. It was so annoying as i was waiting here for couple of months, yet he was telling me he did nothing in singapore. Instantly, i felt that his lawyer was cheating me by telling me the s&p had sent to australia. Who know, the lawyer said she get cheated by bank officer also!!!
Started that day onwards,i no longer hav faith in lawyers,until i read ur forum,u r such a nice lawyer who helping us without asking any return. Then, I told my lawyer everything what had been informed by bank officer. However, my lawyer and loan bank  lawyer unable to accept the excuse, as they said the authorization letter didnt have lawyer's chop but notary public chop, despite he/she is a lawyer+notary public, the letter consider invalid also. Worst come to worst, lawyer of singapore bank will do something to make sure the things done as singapore bank said they are waiting for my money. Now is in negotation period between loan panel lawyer and singapore bank lawyer.

What i m concern now is, my case had been procastinated since March because of the delay of singapore bank, who can b considered as vendor. They have been dragging my times since March until today, still havent settled yet. Somehow, if i didnt call the singapore bank, perhaps i have to wait "patiently" again n again until today. Can I ask for the compensation? They put a term 4+2 for my loan matter. Then, can I, as a purchaser protect myself with the same term?
By the way,may i know how to calculate the loan agreement legal fee as i hav a panel lawyer from bank n my own lawyer as middle person to run the show. Infact,my lawyer had told me the total amount legal fee of s&p and loan aggrement at the first place. However,i choose to take commercial loan instead of government loan at the end of the day,and the quotation he calculated for me was based on government loan,without any panel lawyer from bank. When i decided to take the commercial loan offer,i was compulsary to take a panel lawyer from the banklist,n i had seek for his advice to take his friend as panel lawyer. I did seek for his advice again for legal fee as i need to prepare sum amount of budget for legal service purpose but he hasnt told me until today .But i really wish to know,i need to pay double legal fee for 2 lawyer (my lawyer as middle person + loan bank  panel lawyer)?he had done a very good job for my s&p,but i hope i no need to pay double for loan agreement, is it possible? Thousand thanks and so sorry for bothering!!

Oh ya, dario lawyer, so sorry, one more question, thankssss in advance! When i asked for temporary VP while waiting the loan to be settled, only i notice that the tenant doesnt want to move out, with the reason, he is paying the rental every month, and had been staying there for very long times, he wana stay put and not plan to move out. (as he is paying 1.5k rental, but the rental nowadays suppose b at least 2.2k) Despite lawyer of singapore bank had given him notice ( they self-proclaimed they had talked to the tenant, i am not so sure as i was not on the spot) chasing him out. Now, the lawyer of singapore bank has issued a suit notice and bring the case to the court. May i know how long its take to settle the court case?I did ask my lawyer, wil singapore bank pay me 8% penalty daily once the loan matter being settled, my lawyer told me,singapore bank wont b that stupid, most probably they will settle everything before the 8% penalty kick off. Hence, i am afraid they keep procastinating my case due to the court case havent settled yet. Crucial point here, what should i do to protect my right? I cant ask my lawyer to do anything anymore cos we hav misunderstanding in between, as he was very disgruntled i direct called the lawyer of singapore bank when he was abroad and not around for 2 weeks. I didnt mean to bypassed him, but i was waiting inpatiently and i wish to talk to everyone personally nowadays, especially wanted to inform the singapore lawyer how to get the tenant, as i have the contact number of the tenant and we met few times before, end up, the singapore bank lawyer also didnt want to talk to me, just hang the call!!!!!!!! Is it a mistake for calling the singapore bank lawyer? Anyway, the contact number of the singapore bank lawyer was given by my lawyer, but he was angry and disgruntled when i called them. Thanks lotsaaaaaaa.
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The problem is this - can your bank now accept the letter of authorisation executed by the vendor to his bank in 1992, and which is purportedly lodged and registered with the High Court in Malaysia in 1992. Nowadays, we have standardised Power of Attorneys (PA) which are usually accepted by the banks. The question is whether this letter amounts to a PA or otherwise.

It would be impossible for the owner himself to be the vendor as the vendor's bank (the one from singapore) would definitely object to it. They would stand by the contents of the LA dated 1992 to assert their rights to the proceeds of the sale. So the question of a new SPA does not arise.

I think that your lawyer and the loan lawyer should work together to persuade the bank to accept it as a PA. Provided always that the document is acceptable in the first place. I haven't taken a look at it so it would be difficult for me to comment if it should be acceptable. Perhaps another supporting document from the bank would suffice? A notary public is as every good as a lawyer. In fact, if it can be registered and accepted by the Court, why can't your bank do so? So, to insist on it to be executed before a lawyer in S'pore does not arise and not a viable suggestion.

If you have any other questions, kindly list them down properly (and numbered) so that I can advise you properly.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Nov 21 2012, 06:08 PM
TSdariofoo
post Nov 21 2012, 06:11 PM

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QUOTE(flabbergasted @ Nov 21 2012, 04:56 PM)
Dear Dariofoo,

I have a simple question hope you can help, who is responsible for the internet cables in high rise properties, JMB or the owners? These cables are located in a Telekom room near the lifts. I'm asking this because these cables have been sabotaged, and the JMB doesn't want to take responsibility.

Thanks.
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JMB is responsible to maintain the safety and security of room itself. Normally a padlocked is placed and the keys kept with management. This falls under the common property. Am not saying that they are responsible for the cables, but when they fail to ensure the security of the room, they would responsible for any damage/loss caused to anything in the room due to their negligence.
TSdariofoo
post Nov 22 2012, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(petlu28 @ Nov 21 2012, 04:48 PM)
My house apartment. They request RM500 administration fee when selling.
If not mistake i buy this property 2004.
*
Is it still under master title or strata title?

From 2007 onwards, the developer cannot charge any fees for consent/admin fees. It is capped at RM50 for a letter of confirmation by the developer (for cases where there is a master title). So, I would argue that they cannot charge RM500.00. RM50 only.
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post Nov 22 2012, 11:37 AM

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QUOTE(Chester @ Nov 21 2012, 07:02 PM)
Hi Dario,

For a 680k DSLH, how much I need to prepare for the lawyers fee; inclusive SnP, MOT, Bank lawyer etc etc..

Thanks!
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SNP - legal fees can be calculated using the link to a calculator at the first page. Add in disbursements as well. Stamp duty upon MOT - use the calculator.

Loan - legal fees - use the calcalator. Add in disbursements. Stamp duty upon Facility Agreement - 0.5% of loan sum.

TSdariofoo
post Nov 22 2012, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(Sandy2028 @ Nov 21 2012, 08:20 PM)
[Dear Sir,

I have a few questions regarding dispute/compensation of Kampung House (with assessment i.e have house no. n registered under the local council)

Q1.  This house is a half brick house which has been there for 60 years but rebuilt it to a bigger unit for 35 years    back,recently the land has been sold to a housing developer, so the developer compensated those residents in that pc of land- 9 units, 6 has accepted the compensation range from 30K to 33K, so our unit only offer 35K which we think it is not fair, cause our unit is the biggest size among the rest? do we have the right to demand more ? on what ground?

Q2.  During the negotiation period i.e 3 weeks ago, after one week we received a notice of evacation from the lawyer to request us to move out within 1 month i.e 8/12, if we do not follow then he will proceed into court. Now the developer not yet confirm the sum of compensation(verbally negotiated) but issue a lawyer letter due to another 2 houses has broken talk but not ours. Is it one of the tactic to frighten us to accept his compensation that he will be given?

Q3. This unit house has a backyard foundary i.e making grilled gates etc, n we demanded for a compensation too but the developer refuse due to it is not registered under the local council. The backyard foundary have been operated there 20 years back till now, on what ground can we demand for some compensation?

Hope to hear your reply soonest as the developer's negotiator will be coming to meet us by tommorrow but he is very firm with his decision to compensate us RM35k ONLY.
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Basically, this house was built 60 yrs ago with no title? Basically empty land cleared and a house was built on it? Since you did not mention any title, so I am only assuming so.

In that case, all the persons are squatters and squatters have no rights in the eye of the law in Malaysia. By right the developer (whom I assume is the landowner) do not even need to give a single cent of compensation to you. They can give one month's notice and obtain a Court Order for vacant possession of you refuse to move out once notice has been given.

They can even destroy and demolish any structures upon the land as such structures are illegal.

This money given to you is ex-gratia and is on compassionate grounds only. You cannot demand for anything more than what they are offering to you. They are not bound to offer anything but the political reality in our country is that squatters are always paid a nominal sum in order for them to move out quietly without any political interference and unwanted publicity.

My advice is to take the RM35k and move out or risk being empty handed and face a lawsuit whereby you would need to fork out legal fees to fight a losing cause.
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post Nov 22 2012, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(flabbergasted @ Nov 21 2012, 09:57 PM)
Thanks man. Any clause from the law book to back this up? It's hard to convince people without proper black and white.
*
http://www.hba.org.my/laws/building/bcpAct2007.htm
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post Nov 22 2012, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(koohuichin @ Nov 21 2012, 11:47 PM)
Dear DarioFoo lawyer, Thanks for your reply and advices, these are my question:

1) My case has been procastinating since March until today, havent settled yet due to vendor's problem. As purchaser need to follow particular term, such as 4+2 to settle the loan problem, or else, hav to pay 8% penalty, it is a term to protect the vendor. How about purchaser? Any term to protect purchaser before the loan release?  As we are still waiting vendor's lawyer to issue the undertaking letter. without the undertaking letter, loan lawyer wont allow the loan to be released. I am afraid they wil drag the case, especially issue the undertaking letter, afraid they wil only issue the letter after the court case settled, in order not to pay 8% penalty (as they are not able to provide vacant possession of the unit now)
2) loan lawyer unable to accept the authorisation executed by vendor to his bank in 1992, due to the chop of notary public. It is according to Power Of Attonery Act, 1949 (Act 424), (b) if executed outside West Malaysia,the execution of such instrument is authenticated, in such form as may be accpted by the registrar, by--- (i) a notary public; or (ii) a commissioner for oaths; or (iii) any judge; or (v) a british consul or vice-consul ; or(vi) a representative of her britanic majesty; or (vii) in the case of an instrument executed in the kingdom of saudi arabia, the malaysian pilgrimage commisioner; or (ix) the case of an instrument executed in the republic sigapore, an advocate and solicitor of the supreme court of the republic, or an officer, acting in the course of his employment, of a company carrying on the business of banking in the republic and incorporated by or under any written law of the republic.

3)I will pay my lawyer for completing my s&p. However, will i need to pay my lawyer for loan agreement as well? means, i need to pay 2 times lawyer fee for loan agreement (for my lawyer and loan lawyer)?

Thousand thanks
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1. Whatever terms would have been stated in the SPA, and I cannot comment without having perused it. Every SPA is different as how each lawyer prepares it. Normally a time frame will be given for the Vendor to issue the LU when requested by the Purc Financier, eg 10 working days. If they fail to do so in time, the completion date would be extended in your favour. That should be provided for in your SPA.

2. iIf it has been registered in the high court, then it is as good as valid, as the high court would not have accepted it if the attestation was not done in order as per the Act. I think the two lawyers involved need to make this clear to the bank. Otherwise, it would be difficult to proceed.

3. Yes you would need to pay a separate set of fees for your loan documentation as well. That is quite standard in all cases.
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post Nov 22 2012, 12:31 PM

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QUOTE(Louiz @ Nov 21 2012, 11:57 PM)
because i believe before proceed into MOT2, the purchaser will get it 90% if the MOT1 took 3 month to proceed since u said it does  not required MOT1(new title) to apply loan

there is where 98% comes to gather unless my lawyer insist to give till end of the completion date (not within 90 days from MOT1, it can be second day to give me if the purchaser lawyer gave my lawyer)

correct me if im wrong...thank u
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Yes but the bank will not issue the release of the 90% loan sum until MOT2 is presented for registration at the land office to transfer the property to the purchaser. This is at the tail end of the transaction. You will get your 8% much earlier than that.

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