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 Lawyer's Corner v2, One-stop centre for any legal queries

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TSdariofoo
post Sep 1 2012, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(Chiah @ Sep 1 2012, 05:38 PM)
Hi sifus, is it true tat sales of leasehold properties do not require land office consent effective this year? I saw some article about this. Thank
*
Not true. If you're referring to kl, then there are properties which are leasehold but which does not require consent, eg old double storey houses in OUG are under Pajakan Mukim but there is no condition precedent to obtain consent. It depends on what is stated in the title itself,so do check there.


TSdariofoo
post Sep 3 2012, 12:11 PM

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REMINDER:

Since some people just don't know how to read, I'm reproducing the rules of this thread which can be found at page 1 :

Some simple and basic rules and regulations of this thread:
1. Please do not PM me for any legal advice, I do not give out any advice via PM. Please post your legal query at this thread so that everyone can benefit from an answer.

2. Please do not ask for any recommendations for law firms or lawyers here.

3. Please do not advertise, promote or solicit any legal services here. This is not a place for such matters.

4. Please do not ask any questions nor talk about discounts here. Discounts are illegal and prohibited by the Bar Council.

Is it too hard to request for the simple rules be followed?
TSdariofoo
post Sep 3 2012, 12:17 PM

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QUOTE(topgear123 @ Sep 2 2012, 11:14 AM)
Hi Dario,

Newbie here, some queries regarding title transfer,

i) if my property was stated come with 2 car park in SnP, is it mean that the same thing must mention in the title as this is part of my land too?

ii) if there is not showing in the title, then what i do? Should i ask the lawyer to revise?

Thanks and have a good day..
*
Ownership will be signified in the SPA, and not in the title. As long as it it stated and identified in the SPA (with a plan and coloured marking), your rights are protected.

TSdariofoo
post Sep 3 2012, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(highcourt @ Sep 2 2012, 07:39 PM)
Hi Dario,

If a person is sued for bankruptcy by the banks because of credit card debts, can and will the banks go after properties jointly held by that person with other family members? If yes, does the bank have the rights to auction off these properties that are held jointly with others? Won't that infringe on others right?

Thank you so much.
*
If the property is encumbered to a chargee/assignee, the creditor cannot touch the property.
TSdariofoo
post Sep 3 2012, 12:23 PM

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QUOTE(femlab @ Sep 2 2012, 10:03 PM)
Hi Dario n sifu,

I am selling my condo (still under master title). before hari raya break, i went to purchaser lawyer office to sign d snp. i didnt appoint a lawyer myself, just tag along with purchaser lawyer.

After raya holiday break, i got letter from developer saying strata title is out. Now came a problem.

1) I ask around what to do now. So i call both purchaser n developer lawyer, the current situation is, purchaser lawyer have not submit anything yet to developer (i specalute due to long break). purchaser lawyer want to re-do d snp. new snp state i need to obtain strata first if developer not agree to do direct transfer to new purchaser. is this fair?

2) purchaser lawyer made a letter for me to sign stating that i choose not to have a lawyer of my own and i cannot sue or report them to authority/tribunal if anything go wrong.

3) bank will realise loan amount in purchacer favour? is this right? but due to (2) i cannot sue them if they runaway with money?

4) Is it too late for me get a lawyer of my own now? or not worth it since im in midle of process? is the process sound normal?
*
1. Yes, the SPA needs to be amended to reflect a situation where the strata title is out and therefore, the duty would be upon the vendor to obtain clean title in his favour before time can start to run in the transaction. Otherwise, the purchaser's interest is not protected.

2. You can sign a letter or have it provided in the SPA that it is your choice not to appoint a lawyer of your own BUT DO NOT sign anything which absolves the purc's lawyer from any liability for negligence, etc. You would be digging your own grave if so.

3. It will be released in favour of the purc's lawyer as stakeholder.

4. You can still appoint your own lawyer. The purchaser would not be prejudiced in the event of a delay as time would not have started to run for the SPA anyway. I doubt if the purchaser would take issue with that. Since a new SPA would still need to be drafted, you can opt to appoint your own lawyer to assist in drafting it.
TSdariofoo
post Sep 3 2012, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(spk @ Sep 3 2012, 12:49 AM)
hi Dario,  I have few questions to ask about 2 different house purchase:

New Launched
1. is it compulsory SPA between buyer & developer must sign within 14 days from the purchase date?  I'm thinking to sign both SPA & Loan agreement on same date because the same panel lawyer handle both agreements.  However I'm worry my unit that i booked might release by developer as SPA is still not sign after 14 days.  My loan offer letter just sent to the lawyer for preparation of loan agreement.

Sub-sale
1.  do we need to get offer to purchase stamped by commissioner oath? it's handwritten and signed by seller & buyer with copy of both IC.

2.  will the buyer able to get back 2% ernest deposit from seller if it's due to loan rejection?

3.  what document should buyer get from seller for applying loan after signing of offer to purchase?  copy of title or previous SPA?

4.  purchase price is different from SPA price.  should the buyer pay the differential after loan disbursement or during down payment?

Thanks for your help.  Really appreciated!
*
1. What is stated in your booking form? If it states 14 days then it is 14 days. If it states that dev can forfeit if not signed then they can do so and you would have no cause of complaint as you have agreed to the terms. Why must wait and sign both at the same time? What's the rationale in delaying the signing of the SPA and risking forfeiture and cancellation just to sign both at the same time.

Subsale:
1. Comm only attests signatures. He does not stamp documents. Unless both parties attend before him and sign it before him, there is no point and no way of "stamping" it before the Comm. That method may be practicable 20-30 years ago but definitely not now, where people are more educated about their rights (and also how to con/cheat). What should have been done was to get it prepared and signed before the purchaser's lawyer with proper terms stipulated.

2. Refer offer to purchase.

3. Title, previous SPA, loan docs (if any), quit rent and assessment receipts.

4. What are you talking about? Please be more specfic rather than saying, "purchase price is different from SPA price".
TSdariofoo
post Sep 3 2012, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(ralph_lauren @ Sep 3 2012, 12:12 PM)
hi Dario , i juz found out that my Deed of Convenant Duplicate copy missing d.... my original copy is with me btw. do i need to contact my lawyer to prepare another copy for me ?

when do i need to use it ? thanks ya smile.gif
*
You can check with your lawyer if he keeps a file copy, but otherwise you can get it from the developer as well since they would have been served with the duplicate copy.


TSdariofoo
post Sep 4 2012, 11:57 AM

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QUOTE(tikaram @ Sep 3 2012, 02:38 PM)
Dear DarioFoo

Recently I have sold one freehold House. ( subsale just vp this july)

Buyer and seller using the same lawyer.

Our lawyer have received redemption statement from my bank ( 2nd Aug). Now asking me to get a copy of the certified true copy of  the  title for them to  submit to Lembaga hasil to do the adjuication.

But My Bank saying they don't give any copy as the copy is located in their center HQ.

I wanted to ask.

1)Can I go to " Pej tanah" to get a certified true copy title
2)Why the lawyer can't get a runner to get a copy from pejabat tanah? Isn't it  this fees already billed to seller legal fees?
3)What should I do if the lawyer not doing its suppose to do, ie complete the process within 3 months  and blame me can't get the certified true copy of the title from my bank?
4) Is My bank telling the thruth " don't give any copy of the title as the copy is located in their center HQ" or the officer just lazy.( I have the photocopy of the title. But Can't get bank to do "certified true copy".)

I have done 5 subsale. But this is the only time lawyer asked me to get ctc from financiar.

many thanks in return for the help notworthy.gif
*
First things first, photocopy of title is more than enough for purposes of submission to LHDN for adjudiction. Alternatively, a title search, which would have been conducted by the purc's lawyer for their own client, would be acceptable as well.

Secondly, there is no concept of using same lawyer or sharing lawyer. This lawyer is acting for the purc, and not you. You merely authorised him (if any) to do the discharge of charge and CKHT. He acts for the best interests of the purc, and not you. You are deemed to be unrepresented.

My opinion is that this lawyer is trying to buy time and extend the completion date in favour of the purc. Look at your SPA for a clause where it would be stated that it is your duty to provide a copy of the title to the purc's lawyer within xx time, failing which the completion date would be extended. If there is such a clause, then it would be to your detriment as time extended means a further delay for you to get your balance purc price.

1. Yes you can.
2. Check your bill for an item - CTC Title. It would cost RM50 or so. Do not confuse this with title search which would cost RM30 (but is normally marked up to RM50-60). If there is such an item, then it is their duty to do so, not yours. Otherwise, it would be your duty to obtain a CTC and hand it to them (do check your SPA for that clause as well).

3. As explained above, it depends on what is stated in the SPA and it is not the purc's lawyers duty to remind you or inform you to do your part on your own (since you decided to remain unrepresented). So, if you fail to act within the limit prescribed, then the completion date would be extended.

4. Your guess is as good as mine.

Conclusion - if there is nothing in the SPA which states that you have to give a CTC of the title to the purc's lawyer, then there is no need to do so. If yes, check if it is billed to you for the purc's lawyer to obtain it for you. Otherwise, you need to do it on your own.
TSdariofoo
post Sep 4 2012, 11:58 AM

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QUOTE(ddeee @ Sep 3 2012, 03:10 PM)
Hi Dario,

I have an appointment today for viewing a leasehold condo and the agent just ask me to prepare a 3% deposit for that unit.

So the money is ready and what document should i expect to sign on the spot and what else should i take note.

Thanks.
*
You would be expected to sign the letter of offer to purchase/booking form once you confirm that you intend to purchase it. Read the T&C properly before signing and if you want to add in your own terms or amend, do it on the spot and initial on the changes.
TSdariofoo
post Sep 4 2012, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(WoodStock @ Sep 3 2012, 03:26 PM)
i am buying my first house, price about RM400k, under construction, direct from developer.
a) do i entitle for any stamp duty discount?
b) some of the lawyer gave me 30% discount which they said it is discount under HDA act. is it true? why some lawyer dont give?
c) my lawyer fees added into my loan amount, do it make any different when looking for lawyer?
d) i am taking maybank housing loan. could i appoint my own lawyer (which is maybank panel lawyer)?

thank you.
*
a) That would be for properties < 350k only.

b) It is not a discount, but more of a limit as to how much a lawyer can charge for properties transacted under the HDA. It is not under the HDA but under the SRO, which you can download under the first page of this thread. It is compulsory to be followed by all lawyers.

Why some lawyers don't give? You can figure out why yourself. You can print out the SRO and show it to them, if you want. smile.gif

c) Of course, as the disbursements might differ, although legal fees are fixed.

d) You would need to check with the bank on this. They should allow you do so.
TSdariofoo
post Sep 4 2012, 12:05 PM

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QUOTE(ti.infinion @ Sep 3 2012, 09:48 PM)
Hi, may i know what is the consequences if move in before name transfer done ( lawsuit by bank )? The unit currently is empty. Potential tenant asking for move in . Money penalty ? waning letter ? or jailed ?
*
Can you be more specfic? You are the purc or vendor? Has the vendor agreed to give VP early to you? What stage is the transaction at now?
TSdariofoo
post Sep 5 2012, 11:22 PM

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All queries will be answered tmr. Thanks for your patience.
TSdariofoo
post Sep 6 2012, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(yktan83 @ Sep 4 2012, 06:29 PM)
Hi Dario,

I need legal advice.

Bought a 2storey house, I paid the 3% earnest deposit 2 days ago. When I viewed the house, the agent told my parents the owner is a mixed, but didnt tell us what race mixed with what race. Then i saw the house got some buddish stuffs, so i never doubt the owner's race.

When i paid the deposit, i signed the booking form. The owner hasn't signed yet. The owner's name was not written on the booking form. Agent told me he would get the owner to sign later.

This morning, the agent sent me the booking form and  owner previous SPA. I was shocked when i saw the owner name is a Malay name. The lawyer recommended by the agent told me she will check whether there is any restriction or special consent required for this transaction to be successful.

Now i'm a bit frustrated. The agent should have told me the owner is a Malay. I feel cheated.

Dario, my question is, if i want to avoid all the hassle arise from transferring property from a malay to a chinese, i would like to cancel the purchase. If i cancel the purchase, can i get back the earnest deposit?

Thanks.
*
If race pf the owner was an important criteria for you then you should not have signed the letter of offer before the identity was ascertained. Now if you raise an issue with the agent, he might deny that he ever represented to you that the owner was not a Malay.

Following the strict terms and conditions in the letter of offer, I do not see how you can find a way out of it. You can't cancel just because of the race issue.
TSdariofoo
post Sep 6 2012, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(mizeily @ Sep 5 2012, 03:23 PM)
Hi dario..need ur advice again..this is my time history of buying process of a subsale apt.
02.08.12 - signed s&p and paid 10% deposit
11.08.12 - paid lawyer's fees
11.08.12 - sign bank loan offer letter
27.08.12 - s&p lawyer emailed stamped s&p to bank loan lawyer
03.09.12 - lawyer recieved fax copy of strata title transfer ownership consent letter but have't recieved hard copy yet. Called developer but was told the letter was already snailed mail on 30.08.12
So the question: is this a normal timeframe? I had asked s&p lawyer whether i should myself pick up the letter from the developer since its only nearby my office. But lawyer said just relax n wait. Am i being paranoid? Btw,can the s&p lawyer just proceed with the next step with only the fax copy of the consent letter? Or do they really need the hardcopy in order to proceed?

Tq so much
*
What's the hurry? Time has not started to run yet right? Check your SPA. It ought to run from the date of receipt of the letter of confirmation from the developer by your lawyer. icon_rolleyes.gif
TSdariofoo
post Sep 6 2012, 02:28 PM

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QUOTE(spk @ Sep 5 2012, 03:45 PM)
Sorry dariofoo,  I should be more specific on question 4. 

My brother is buying a subsale at $280K.  However due to certain reason, he wish to state $220k in the SPA, but he will ask the lawyer to prepare another letter stated that vacant possession and title transfer will be granted upon full settlement of actual purchase price $280K.  Do you think this is work?  Thanks.
*
Provided that the vendor is willing to accept the arrangement, then it should be ok. The risk lies with the vendor and less with your brother. The lawyer ought to know what to do. icon_rolleyes.gif
TSdariofoo
post Sep 6 2012, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(kyoshooo @ Sep 5 2012, 05:20 PM)
Hi, i just got the quotation for my DSL house, is it reasonable? looks expensive to me...  sad.gif
*
Please compare with the many samples in v1 of this thread. icon_rolleyes.gif
TSdariofoo
post Sep 6 2012, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(brianccg @ Sep 5 2012, 09:56 PM)
How much is your purchase price?


Added on September 5, 2012, 10:24 pmI have a doubt. I lately paid a booking for a terrace house (sub sales). The agent told me is fully extend front and back and when I went and viewed the house, it is a decent house and it really like what the agent claimed fully extended front and back.

However, I am applying a bank loan now and some of the bankers asked me if the extension is approved and when I checked with agent, she told me the seller also don't know as the seller bought from previous seller, the house already extended. The agent even email me the valuation report which obtained from the seller. (the valuation report did stated is fully extended but did not stated if the extension is approved)

Due to this, some of the bankers not able to gv high value for this house (they treat it as basic unit) but some of the bankers did nt ask me but straight away gv me the value with extension.

My questions are:

1. Can I ask to cancel the booking due to undisclosu of the info and request for refund?
2. Will the bankers asked for approval plan?
3. Can I submit the extension plan later once I moved in? How and where I can check if the extension is legal?
4. If the bank approved my loan now, later the valuer found out no approved plan and lower the valuation any thus withdraw my loan, can I use this to cancel the spa and asked for full refund?

Thanks a lot.
*
1. How important was the non-disclosure? If it was important to you, you would have asked for the plans/proof of approval when viewing the house and before paying the deposit. You had accepted the house on an as-is-where-is basis from day 1. You only raise this issue now after the bankers brought your attention to the possibility that it is not approved. It would be difficult for you to argue that the non-disclosure was so important that it would have resulted in you not intending to proceed to place your earnest deposit and purchase it, since this was never raised before.

2. Not that I know of. The valuers might ask when they visit the premises. More often than not, they take photographs of the place.

3. Yes you can, but whether you are penalised or otherwise would depend on the local council.

4. The bank would've approved your loan based on the initial market value based on a preliminary check, subject to full valuation. Even if the valuation falls short, it is highly unlikely that the bank would retract its letter of offer. The loan sum, however, may be revised to a lower sum befitting the valuation.
TSdariofoo
post Sep 6 2012, 02:39 PM

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QUOTE(scongi @ Sep 5 2012, 10:32 PM)
I have some question on the legal issue.

The scenario is :
10% deposit paid to developer and snp is signed

Second progress of 10% is billed and will be due on next monday (in snp state that if purcahser fails to pay any progress billing in excess of 28 days after due day, developer can terminate the agreement and forfeited the deposit subject to 14 days notice in writing by AR to treat this agreement as having been repudiated by purchaser unless such default is rectified before expiration of the said notice)

Loan for 90% only approved by today
The question is:

1) can developer forfeited the 10% deposit if the loan is not able to release within 28 days after the due date or after the expiration of 14 day notice
2) can the purchaser pay the progress billing first if the bank fail to release within required time to avoid the deposit forfeited by developer
3) if the scenario is as 2) above, can later the developer refund to purchaser after the drawdown from bank to developer
4) what can the purchaser do if developer fail to refund after drawdown from bank

Appreciate if any expert can advice.
*
1. Judging by what you have stated above, they can. But more often than not, they would just charge late penalty interest of 10% (or whatever sum is stated in the SPA).

2 and 3. Check with the developer as to what arrangements can be made between the parties.

4. Sue the developer for recoveries of the money via a civil suit.
TSdariofoo
post Sep 6 2012, 03:00 PM

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QUOTE(xproc @ Sep 6 2012, 12:30 PM)
my dad ask me buy a shotlot at ipoh, but i working at kl... i find lawyer at kl or ipoh better
*
Ipoh would be easier, to be honest. There's more running around for the lawyer to do rather than for you. You would only need to attend in Ipoh once to sign the SPA (if you appoint an SPA lawyer who is also on your bank panel and who can prepare both sets of docs at one go). Otherwise, you're looking at attending twice. icon_rolleyes.gif
TSdariofoo
post Sep 6 2012, 06:19 PM

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QUOTE(CoDe_WrItEr @ Sep 6 2012, 04:59 PM)
Dear Dario,

  Need your advice/input. I am in the midst of doing my SPA, the lawyer sent me the quotation, and it is stated there the stamp duty is on DOA, since the property is just newly completed, does not have title yet. The stamp duty on SPA & DOA itslef is around 9.8k. Now my concern is, when the individual title to the property has been issued later on, do i have to pay for another round of stamp duty on MOT? 

  Thanks for your time and answer smile.gif
*
It will only be RM10 for the MOT. icon_rolleyes.gif

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