2. Pump would help in your situation coz your upstairs will need a little assistance to maintain pressure.

5. Pretty easy if you are replacing existing unit / installing new unit where the electric point and water outlet is ready.

Cost cutting KPI @ Pana that's why we get such nonsense, the joke was that they should just make the power cord 10cm long to save wire cost.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Aug 31 2020, 04:07 AM

WH should last 10-15 years easily. At RM278/15 yrs (non pump model) its only 18.53 per year. Can throw it then as it has served its useful life

Pump or no pump determined whether u have good pressure or not. Good pressure meaning your water never heat up enough even when WH is max heat and u cannot stop the water from hose easily by just using your thumb.

can take hitachi HES36WSPYMSI or pana DH-3MP1 (still M series more reliable than newer N series it seems), these two got push start so easier to start back the water when you have shampoo in your eyes.

between pana DH-3RP1 and toshiba DSK-38S3MW (DC PUMP) I would go for the toshiba since no diff in functionality (the pana model here and toshiba both also no push start)

This post has been edited by ceo684: Sep 4 2020, 04:01 AM

Can get whichever is cheaper. Both should work similarly as the two of them don't have push start. If push start & pump can try DH3MP1.
Dont get N series Pana...newer series macam not reliable

This post has been edited by ceo684: Sep 14 2020, 07:26 PM

Should be WH leaked internally (most likely a crack or leak at the heating element) and caused a short.


Instant WH usually use some sort of ceramic element and since its actively cooled by running water, and theres a thermostat control it never gets hot enough to crack the ceramic on the heating element.

Instant WH is cheap enough to replace (RM300 including shipping) for the push start panasonic.
Use and throw after 10-12 years is only RM30 per year.
Add in 10mA RCD (in addition to MCB) or RCBO (direct replace MCB) to keep users safe.

WH:
https://www.lazada.com.my/products/panasoni...vRoCTX8QAvD_BwE

RCBO:
https://www.lazada.com.my/products/easy9-rc...5YhAYL&search=1

With a 10mA RCD/RCBO this can be prevented. https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2020/08/...e-electrocution



This post has been edited by ceo684: Sep 22 2020, 08:28 PM

Yes the pump will help, and if u want good pressure u can also replace the shower head to this:

https://www.jp-my.store/collections/takagi-shower-head

Only if you turn off the electricity to the storage WH while taking bath in simplest terms its still using an electric heater element to warm up the water.

Solar powered heater?

clean the filter first

confirm the wiring is not corroded or overheated/melted

then if all good on wiring still occur same problem buy new one - (Non-Jet Pump) DH-3MS1MW - M series is better build

N series newly installed already tank leaking (see earlier post in this thread). Generally newer series have more extreme cost cutting.

Either Pana or Toshiba or Bosch or Hitachi WH.
Pana and Hitachi has push start button so when your eyes got shampoo you can easily on water again.
Pana DH-3MP1 is cheaper comparatively when compared with pump model of Hitachi but do not get new N series, get previous M series better built quality, new one too much cost cutting until new unit also leak.
Hence recommended is DH-3MP1 if you need pump.

Toshiba is OK also, Bosch also OK, but the only drawback is no push start. Toshiba pump model quite cheap.
Safety wise stick to bigger brands better.

Traditionally we have all non pump, 2 National's, 1 square Pana old model still working, 1 new DH-3MS1
We had a (cheapo but not sold cheap to us) Mira brand recommended by xxxxxxxx electrician that scalded us every single time (terrace house pressure not that good). This incident was why we always insist on Pana WH. The temp range and temp control is better. Whilst it was still working we decided not to give away this headache and just threw it away.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Oct 31 2020, 02:37 PM

If you can remember to off the pump when not in use then can couple it with an external pump for better pressure. Bear in mind those will need good quality piping as higher pressure more prone to leaks for the high pressure portions. If want to be safe then the integrated pump like MP1 Pana WH is the safe bet, it will work great for the Pana shower head

but if you are using with big rain shower and with external pump then the concern about not heating enough and pipe pressure will still be there.. if u go this way, there are 4800W heaters from hitachi and Pana to give extra heat, but since this is high power device u cannot run this with normal cables so need to direct a new line say 4/6mm (cost is negligible between the two so I'd suggest 6mm) because of much more amps..it will take about 20A nominal so 4mm(32A) capacity will be your minimum cable size, 6mm recommended to ensure that the cables keep cool.

External pumps that are not integrated with the heater will continue to keep the pump output section pressurised whether you off the water heater or not, unless you turn off the pump electricity.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Nov 30 2020, 10:54 PM

Difference is 5.5% more heat available only. It might not really make so much difference as compared to 3600W.
Slowing down the water flow will make it heat up better.

Else if you are in some cold place like Genting or Kundasang mountain area then can consider the 4800W models but wiring need to upgrade.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Dec 2 2020, 11:39 PM

Rain shower need good (high) water flow to rain properly otherwise you'll just get a miserable drip like prison torture.
OTOH, High water flow will not be able to heat up as well as medium water flow as the water already travel far ahead from the heating element (when its high flow).

Its part of the reason why normally they don't put rain shower as default when selling WH.
There are larger heating element WH (4800W models) if you want to run a rain shower and have it hot.

Ideally should run a new dedicated line from DB for the WH. Ask the electrician to add in 10mA RCD / RCBO (from a reputable brand ABB Hager Schneider). Contractor simply hook up only, I recommend getting a real electrician to look into this if the contractor say noneed one.. wont die one...

These don't cost that much nowadays (95 bucks for schneider with sirim sticker)
https://shopee.com.my/SCHNEIDER-RCBO-25a-2p...1048.2774414891
25A RCBO as per above can do direct replacement for MCB (if u use 4mm or 6mm cable). Else still need 20A MCB if on standard 2.5mm cable as 25A for this cable size is overload.

Why this is important?

To avoid you coming into the news like this https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/202...c-shock/1896447

Standard 2.5mm cable will limit you to 3800W model WH. If you find the water too cold then nothing much you can do.
If you uprate it to 4mm or 6mm it will support 4800W (highlands model) WH.
Cost wise not that much more in terms of material for cable (even if buy loose per meter) but since pulling new line you might wanna consider just buying whole 100m rolls.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Dec 11 2020, 09:01 PM

Coz for pressurised water from condo tank, refresh to new piping by management recently within past 2 years (so can consider our piping is brand new)
With old 3300W heaters I always use 90% heat.
With brand new 3600W heater also around there - 70% heat

No rain shower, all original (new Pana hose and new shower heads). Old heater also using new hoses from last 2 yrs.

Difference between ELCB and RCCB
· ELCB is the old name and often refers to voltage operated devices that are no longer available and it is advised you replace them if you find one.
· RCCB or RCD is the new name that specifies current operated (hence the new name to distinguish from voltage operated).
· The new RCCB is best because it will detect any earth fault. The voltage type only detects earth faults that flow back through the main earth wire so this is why they stopped being used.
· The easy way to tell an old voltage operated trip is to look for the main earth wire connected through it.
· RCCB will only have the line and neutral connections.
· ELCB is working based on Earth leakage current. But RCCB is not having sensing or connectivity of Earth, because fundamentally Phase current is equal to the neutral current in single phase. That’s why RCCB can trip when the both currents are deferent and it withstand up to both the currents are same. When both the neutral and phase currents are different that means current is flowing through the Earth.
· RCD does not necessarily require an earth connection itself (it monitors only the live and neutral).In addition it detects current flows to earth even in equipment without an earth of its own.
· This means that an RCD will continue to give shock protection in equipment that has a faulty earth. It is these properties that have made the RCD more popular than its rivals. For example, earth-leakage circuit breakers (ELCBs) were widely used about ten years ago. These devices measured the voltage on the earth conductor; if this voltage was not zero this indicated a current leakage to earth. The problem is that ELCBs need a sound earth connection, as does the equipment it protects. As a result, the use of ELCBs is no longer recommended.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-differenc...n-ELCB-and-RCCB

We can assume that the ELCB is the brain for the shock protection, and the grounding as the backbone. Therefore, without a functional grounding (Proper Earthing of Electrical System) there is totally no protection against electrical shocks in your house even if You have installed ELCB and its TEST switch show proper result. Looking after the ELCB alone is not enough. The electrical Earthing system must also be in good working order for the shock protection system to work.
https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/w...rent-device-rcd

ST guideline here for WH installation. Statutory requirement under the law for wet floor appliance i.e. WH to be protected with 10mA RCD.

10mA RCD/RCBO from good brands only cost around RM95-RM170 each, cheaper than buying life insurance plan. https://www.st.gov.my/en/contents/publicati...r%20Systems.pdf

This post has been edited by ceo684: Dec 12 2020, 10:17 PM

Yeah the important factor of ELCB, the ground wire (earth) must be connected. Some WH do a test and will not operate without connected ground.
ELCB is considered like wearing a car sunshade to fight a fire.
Got some protection la but not foolproof. To run from a fire maybe can la.

Full bomba suit is the RCD.
RCD is the standard now because it always constant monitor if 10.00 A in on live and for 10mA RCCD at least 9.999 A must come out on the neutral else it will consider as fault (something wrong somewhere) and trip. This is because just a little bit of current 50mA = 0.005A can and WILL kill at 230V.

N series?
Someone with Newer N series leak before as reported in this thread too.
I'd recommend the old M series Pana, this one so far so good for me.


ELCB is old method and should not be fully relied on.
China don't have its own SIRIM.. many CN product just manufacturer syok sendiri say certified as CE (not lab tested, syok sendiri claim).. whereas UL, SIRIM, VDE, KEMA KEUR and all the famous famous cert require certified lab testing in order to earn that cert.
Hence if wanna use WH it is still worth that RM95-170 for proper RCD/RCBO for life protection.

This is also why whole house should also use 30mA RCD, as (even how suay) also it won't kill a person. 100mA and 300mA is only for fire protection.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Dec 14 2020, 12:36 AM

Stick to safe brands better. And make sure your WH is on 10mA RCD/RCBO protected circuit. It is important for life protection and yet cheaper than your insurance plan

This post has been edited by ceo684: Jan 1 2021, 11:21 PM

WH for rain shower depends on water pressure. If not good then need another external pump. This will increase flow rate and make the water pass thru fast that it may not heat up sufficiently, hence may need 4800W heater (rather than 3kW class heater, but 4800W heater will also need uprated wiring 4mm or 6mm cables - cannot use standard 2.5mm cables)