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NewUser1234567890 P
post Feb 23 2022, 12:04 AM

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Hi Sifus here, i'm planning to get a water heater in an apartment.
i'm looking at the below models that come with rain shower.

Rubine (RWH-IA991D-RCB/RMG/RMP)
Rubine (RWH-SSE891D-RCB/RMG/RMP)

maybe anyone who have experience using the above model can share their experience of the water heater?

i'm open to other suggestion of water heater from other brands too that come with a rain shower.

Thank you in advance.
SilenTz_1993
post Feb 26 2022, 02:28 PM

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Hey sifus, checking if it’s reasonable at all to install water heater with pump if I already have a grundfos water pump?

Reason is I really wanted to get a strong rain shower going on, but not sure if it makes sense to install two pumps in series like this haha

Appreciate any advice!
Selene Yeo
post Feb 26 2022, 11:32 PM

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QUOTE(SilenTz_1993 @ Feb 26 2022, 02:28 PM)
Hey sifus, checking if it’s reasonable at all to install water heater with pump if I already have a grundfos water pump?

Reason is I really wanted to get a strong rain shower going on, but not sure if it makes sense to install two pumps in series like this haha

Appreciate any advice!
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If you are satisfied with the water flow from your shower after installing your external water pump, technically there's no need to get an instant water heater with built-in pump, unless u want a back-up for the time when your water pump died off. But note that u cannot compare an external water pump with a built-in pump in an instant water heater, as their power is wayyy different, with external pump being much much more powerful (and of course more expensive and use more electricity).

The thing u should be concern about is with the high water flow rate that the external pump will generate, higher water flow = lower output water temperature from your instant water heater. So any instant water heater less than 4.2kW should be unsatisfactory as it will not generate enough warm shower water, especially during raining season when inlet water is colder than usual days. If you insist on using an instant water heater, better get a higher kW one (such as CENTON Serene Highlands 5.4kW), or the safest bet is to get a storage water heater.

This post has been edited by Selene Yeo: Feb 26 2022, 11:35 PM
Selene Yeo
post Feb 27 2022, 12:19 AM

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QUOTE(lacmac @ Jan 24 2022, 03:14 PM)
The storage heater will be placed above the ceiling of the shower. Where it will be plugged in using the standard WH plug which will also be above the ceiling. There is the main swit h outside the bathroom.

If 2.5mm is not following ST regulation, then Centon are at fault as they use 2.5mm inside their unit. No point fitting 4mm wire to a 2.5mm wire.

Personally I think it is OK to use the 3 pin plug as the unit is rated at 2500w so a 13amp plug should surfice.
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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Jan 24 2022, 12:15 PM)
The connector ensure a neat join safely.
QUOTE(stormer.lyn @ Jan 25 2022, 05:39 PM)
If you think you can use a 13A socket, or don't want to use the Centon connector (I don't, I make direct connections), or use 2.5 mm² cable, then you can but it is entirely your responsibility. People here are posting about what you should do following the rules, but you seem to want justification on why you shouldn't. Sorry, can't do that. Wires internal to the WH/SH does not need to conform to ST wiring rules, and ceo684's post repeated below explains why.
I have to agree with @ceo684 and @stormer.lyn , if u want justification why u shouldn't follow Suruhanjaya Tenaga's guideline, then u got to debate it with Suruhanjaya Tenaga. Not too sure bout that CENTON Nautilus as I am not using it, but from your pic the cable u are referring to looks like it is internal wiring, and as shared by the 2 experts above that they do not need to conform to ST wiring rules, as long as the product itself is certified by SIRIM and Suruhanjaya Tenaga.

I believe we should all promote safer installation / following Suruhanjaya Tenaga's guidelines, NOT justify why we shouldn't. If u @lacmac don't want to, it is entirely up to u, as pointed out by @stormer.lyn. The community here is trying promote safe installation and to correct those wrong ones (such as some irresponsible installers out there do not, such as using 3-pin socket connection in the bathroom, or using a 1.5mm² for instant water heater connection).

This post has been edited by Selene Yeo: Feb 27 2022, 12:20 AM
Skylinestar
post Feb 27 2022, 03:25 PM

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Here's the electrical connection coming out from my bathroom wall. What's the best way to connect to my heater, yet water proof? Is there anything like a waterproof in-line splice?
Prefer not to drill any hole to my tiles.

user posted image

Does this type of flexible hose greatly reduce the water supply pressure/flow? It's normally use for hand shower outlet. Therefore I'm not sure. I plan to use this because this is the only type of flexible non-conductive hose that I can find.

user posted image

This post has been edited by Skylinestar: Feb 27 2022, 03:28 PM
mini orchard
post Feb 27 2022, 03:32 PM

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QUOTE(Skylinestar @ Feb 27 2022, 03:25 PM)
Here's the electrical connection coming out from my bathroom wall. What's the best way to connect to my heater, yet water proof? Is there anything like a waterproof in-line splice?
Prefer not to drill any hole to my tiles.

user posted image

Does this type of flexible hose greatly reduce the water supply pressure/flow? It's normally use for hand shower outlet. Therefore I'm not sure. I plan to use this because this is the only type of flexible non-conductive hose that I can find.

user posted image
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Direct to WH

No.
lacmac
post Feb 27 2022, 04:15 PM

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QUOTE(Selene Yeo @ Feb 27 2022, 12:19 AM)
I have to agree with @ceo684 and @stormer.lyn , if u want justification why u shouldn't follow Suruhanjaya Tenaga's guideline, then u got to debate it with Suruhanjaya Tenaga. Not too sure bout that CENTON Nautilus as I am not using it, but from your pic the cable u are referring to looks like it is internal wiring, and as shared by the 2 experts above that they do not need to conform to ST wiring rules, as long as the product itself is certified by SIRIM and Suruhanjaya Tenaga.

I believe we should all promote safer installation / following Suruhanjaya Tenaga's guidelines, NOT justify why we shouldn't. If u @lacmac don't want to, it is entirely up to u, as pointed out by @stormer.lyn. The community here is trying promote safe installation and to correct those wrong ones (such as some irresponsible installers out there do not, such as using 3-pin socket connection in the bathroom, or using a 1.5mm² for instant water heater connection).
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I appreciate all the advice I have been given, I'm not trying to go against local regulations. I was mealy asking why you would install the special CENTON Connector which comes together with a 1 meter 4mm diameter cable from Fajar when the wires in the unit are 2.5mm and the wires which run from your DB are also 2.5mm.

I spoke Centon Malaysia and they said its OK if the wires from your DB box is 2.5mm as long as you fit the 4mm Centon connector, as this will meet the regulations.

I contacted Suruhanjaya Tenaga with regard to this, no reply.

Skylinestar
post Feb 27 2022, 04:33 PM

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QUOTE(mini orchard @ Feb 27 2022, 03:32 PM)
Direct to WH
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best way to water proof this? just wind multiple layer of tape?
user posted image
mini orchard
post Feb 27 2022, 05:25 PM

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QUOTE(Skylinestar @ Feb 27 2022, 04:33 PM)
best way to water proof this? just wind multiple layer of tape?
user posted image
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For WH .... NO.
Skylinestar
post Feb 27 2022, 06:17 PM

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QUOTE(mini orchard @ Feb 27 2022, 05:25 PM)
For WH  .... NO.
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you say direct, but the wires from the wall are too short. need to splice with the wires that come out from the heater.
mini orchard
post Feb 27 2022, 07:33 PM

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QUOTE(Skylinestar @ Feb 27 2022, 06:17 PM)
you say direct, but the wires from the wall are too short. need to splice with the wires that come out from the heater.
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Can place the WH directly infront of the wire. If cant, then pls consult an elctrician.

Sometime developer also one of a kind. ...give such a short length. Maybe that could be balance they could give.
ceo684
post Mar 1 2022, 03:40 AM

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QUOTE(Skylinestar @ Feb 27 2022, 03:25 PM)
Here's the electrical connection coming out from my bathroom wall. What's the best way to connect to my heater, yet water proof? Is there anything like a waterproof in-line splice?
Prefer not to drill any hole to my tiles.

user posted image

Does this type of flexible hose greatly reduce the water supply pressure/flow? It's normally use for hand shower outlet. Therefore I'm not sure. I plan to use this because this is the only type of flexible non-conductive hose that I can find.

user posted image
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If it cannot reach the heater's terminal block then you either splice it properly (within the heater casing itself, or if it comes out as a socket use the centon connector).

No, if you use proper HOKAH flexihose.
Yes, if u use those china made cheapo chrome with bicycle tube inside. Those bicycle tube material exploded whilst I was watching TV.

QUOTE(lacmac @ Feb 27 2022, 04:15 PM)
I appreciate all the advice I have been given, I'm not trying to go against local regulations. I was mealy asking why you would install the special CENTON Connector which comes together with a 1 meter 4mm diameter cable from Fajar when the wires in the unit are 2.5mm and the wires which run from your DB are also 2.5mm.

I spoke Centon Malaysia and they said its OK if the wires from your DB box is 2.5mm as long as you fit the 4mm Centon connector, as this will meet the regulations.

I contacted Suruhanjaya Tenaga with regard to this, no reply.
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The 4mm is worst case scenario as some 3 storey mansions already running close to one roll of wire to reach from DB box at ground level to the far end bathroom. So if those people fitted a 2.5mm connection - and there is a problem with it (V drop or overheat) liability wise the 4mm is not going to be the cause of it as it follow proper regulation.
And, from product perspective a meter of 4mm is not expensive. It eliminate the problem of having two part numbers.
Also, 4mm flexicord has enough safety margin not to overheat. 2.5mm is running close to redline for 4800W heater. That's assuming ALL the strands are intact. If chopped just one strand during stripping it might be redline already.

QUOTE(Skylinestar @ Feb 27 2022, 06:17 PM)
you say direct, but the wires from the wall are too short. need to splice with the wires that come out from the heater.
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Position the heater rear casing to fit the wires coming out of the wall.
Connect with appropriate terminal block (yes the Malaysian variety with two screws) of at least 30A rated if want to save the RM10 of 32A Wago 221-412 x qty 3pcs.
https://my.element14.com/wago/221-412/termi...2pos/dp/2534732 these are 32A rated UL listed

Remember to install a proper 10mA RCD. Recommend either ABB or Hager because these are VI type. Anything cheap are all VD type RCD.
You only have one life per human, you are not cats.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Mar 1 2022, 03:41 AM
lacmac
post Mar 1 2022, 08:33 AM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Mar 1 2022, 03:40 AM)
If it cannot reach the heater's terminal block then you either splice it properly (within the heater casing itself, or if it comes out as a socket use the centon connector).

No, if you use proper HOKAH flexihose.
Yes, if u use those china made cheapo chrome with bicycle tube inside. Those bicycle tube material exploded whilst I was watching TV.
The 4mm is worst case scenario as some 3 storey mansions already running close to one roll of wire to reach from DB box at ground level to the far end bathroom. So if those people fitted a 2.5mm connection - and there is a problem with it (V drop or overheat) liability wise the 4mm is not going to be the cause of it as it follow proper regulation.
And, from product perspective a meter of 4mm is not expensive. It eliminate the problem of having two part numbers.
Also, 4mm flexicord has enough safety margin not to overheat. 2.5mm is running close to redline for 4800W heater. That's assuming ALL the strands are intact. If chopped just one strand during stripping it might be redline already.
Position the heater rear casing to fit the wires coming out of the wall.
Connect with appropriate terminal block (yes the Malaysian variety with two screws) of at least 30A rated if want to save the RM10 of 32A Wago 221-412 x qty 3pcs.
https://my.element14.com/wago/221-412/termi...2pos/dp/2534732 these are 32A rated UL listed

Remember to install a proper 10mA RCD. Recommend either ABB or Hager because these are VI type. Anything cheap are all VD type RCD.
You only have one life per human, you are not cats.
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Thank you for the explanation, all the electrical shops I went to about installation said it was a crazy idea to have 2.5mm wires from the water storage heater to 4mm 1 meter wire then back to 2.5mm wire to the DB box.
The said if there is a problem and the RCD does not trip, first thing to go would be the wires in the storage heater. But they also said to just follow regulations, that way your warranty would still be ok.
ceo684
post Mar 1 2022, 12:56 PM

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QUOTE(lacmac @ Mar 1 2022, 08:33 AM)
Thank you for the explanation, all the electrical shops I went to about installation said it was a crazy idea to have 2.5mm wires from the water storage heater to 4mm 1 meter wire then back to 2.5mm wire to the DB box.
The said if there is a problem and the RCD does not trip, first thing to go would be the wires in the storage heater. But they also said to just follow regulations, that way your warranty would still be ok.
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Most welcome. Its alright to be overspec so you don't need to worry about strands breaking and derating.
Bearing in mind, in-wall conduit there's still a little tolerance of air gaps "like wearing a loose baju kurung - more airy" yet its already derated on calculation.
Flexicord basically all bunched up together in the same PVC sheath "like wearing a sheath dress (body hugging) which is a bit warmer". The air cooling is nonexistent. So by inferring the derating parts, flexicord in installation guidelines are not recommend for permanent installation (but overspec is alright since it won't get warm enough to cause trouble).
dontsearchforme
post Mar 9 2022, 08:32 AM

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Anyone has experience installing water heater (including electrical wiring) by yourself? If so, can share how difficult or easy do you find it?

Thank you gurus!
mini orchard
post Mar 9 2022, 08:41 AM

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QUOTE(dontsearchforme @ Mar 9 2022, 08:32 AM)
Anyone has experience installing water heater (including electrical wiring) by yourself? If so, can share how difficult or easy do you find it?

Thank you gurus!
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Installation is not only about plug and play. Engage an electrician.

Where to place it, which drill bits, which power tool etc.

At the end, kena water pipe or wire ?

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Mar 9 2022, 09:23 AM
FusionXY
post Mar 11 2022, 01:29 PM

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https://says.com/my/news/husband-and-wife-f...ty-water-heater
coolguy99
post Mar 11 2022, 09:00 PM

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QUOTE(FusionXY @ Mar 11 2022, 01:29 PM)
Damn saw this news too..Any safety tips when it comes to water heater?
FusionXY
post Mar 11 2022, 11:02 PM

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QUOTE(coolguy99 @ Mar 11 2022, 09:00 PM)
Damn saw this news too..Any safety tips when it comes to water heater?
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Ask ceo684
ceo684
post Mar 12 2022, 12:20 AM

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QUOTE(coolguy99 @ Mar 11 2022, 09:00 PM)
Damn saw this news too..Any safety tips when it comes to water heater?
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Fit a 10mA RCD per water heater (at the DB box).
The why's are here - https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=103837393

Also, for the mains RCD (whole house) use a 30mA.

Humans die above 50mA leakage current passing through the water heater.

Hence, 100mA/300mA RCDs are "close one eye" or "close two eyes" = they will kill you before they trip.

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