Hey Lowyat-ers, I'm about to take SPM 2011 and I'm clouded in deciding what to do after it. First of all, my 'cita-cita' is to be a doctor(more specifically a medical specialist but that's a story for another day). I'm not one of 'em kids from a rich family so financially I've got some obstacles or rather, roadblocks ahead of me. Most likely I wouldn't be able to afford universities such as Monash and IMU. I'm not sure about the fee structure of public universities such as USM, UM, etc.

I came across a new option(Kursk State Medical University) at an education fair the other day. Sat down, talked, asked questions, and came to a conclusion that the fee structure is reasonable(far cheaper than Monash) and I'm thinking about it. However, some of my friends had negative responses to the idea of studying medicine in Russia(One even laughed and thought I was joking)

So, if there are any of you kind Lowyat-ers here who has or knows someone who has experience in this university or even just knowledge regarding studying in Russia, please kindly shed some light on the subject.

AND, if anyone knows(or roughly know) the fee structure of studying medicine in local universities, please do share.

just one of the newer russian mbbs threads, quite a lot has been discussed in other related threads.

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1793046

Another road for you is study hard for SPM, get As, then matriks, then IPTA Medicine programme...

If not, take STPM, then good result,may or may not accpeted into medicine, but if possible to get scholarships for medicine......if you want to do it locally....

My brother studied medicine in russia at RSMU and he graduated working at HKL and he's doing fine. My friend is currently studying at kursk and from all the pictures it looks like she's having fun. And she told me that in kursk, you mostly learn in english if im not mistaken. Dont really know about the fee's though. I guess the only barrier that you have to face is being so far away from everybody else and the language. Obviously locals there do not speak a lot of english or even know any. But when you band together with friends you will meet over there, then everything would be fine of course. Good luck with your SPM and all the best. A doctors life is a hectic one according to my brother

Oh, i also have a friend studying in Indonesia for medicine, maybe you should try and look up Padjadjaran University

do you qualify to study medicine in the first place?.....what is your forecast spm result?.....

http://mmc.gov.my/v1/docs/MINIMUM%20CRITERIA%20V2.pdf

the vast majority of students going to russia goes there because it's cheap, and/or it's easy to get accepted, even with very poor results....

the 2nd reason is now closed, as if you do NOT have the minimum set by mmc, you will be denied registration when you return.....

more than 1/2 of all russian graduates have a LOT of difficulties when they start working as housemans, as they have VERY weak fundamental knowledge, and very weak clinical skills.....

Agree with limeuu since our medical field is deteriorating currently...Results are not good, then leave medicine, dont force yourself doing something bad......

Thanks for replying guys.

Read some of the other related threads(thanks for the link) and though I don't claim to be very smart it looks like I still qualify limeuu(based on my trial 2 results) though I have no idea about SPM(fingers crossed)

I agree about the whole "goes there because it's cheap" thing since my reason for going there is no different. It seems(okay it's obvious actually) that quite a few users have negative opinions about studying medicine in Russia.

Limeuu, from the other threads, you give me the impression that you're completely against the Russians on this... mind elaborating where and/or what your source is? Don't worry about offending... I'd like it best to know all the positives and negatives(especially the negatives) before making a decision.

Thanks again for the wish excel_saga I'll try my best in SPM. Cheers =D

i am against the commercialisation of medical education, and russia is the epitome of this....their sole purpose for their english language medical programmes (nobody speaks english there, think about it...) is to earn money from foreigners, and since nobody stays back to work, they don't care what quality of 'doctors' they produce....

there is no regard for standards, and thus takes in anybody, including arts students.....it's a corrupt system, where you can buy passes from your teachers.....

the product of this system is obvious when students return and start work....half of them cannot function, and have to be taught all over again like a 1st year medical student....

the mmc guideline is too lax, in my opinion.....the way spm is dumbed down, nobody with less than straight a's should be allowed to take medicine...(the pre-u guideline doesn't work, as many people going to russia just do a 'foundation' somewhere after spm, and they can all be given bbb.....)

What you say does make sense when one thinks about their side of the benefits. And, if the standard of their graduates is bad as you claim, then my desire/hope of going there is pretty much crushed(I'd never let patients trust me if I don't even know for sure what I'm doing whilst treating them). Are you in the medical field btw limeuu?

So, let's see, if I manage to land a spot in matriks(govt) and walk the IPTA path. How would my financial situation differ from the Russian path?

There's A+, A and A-. I think you would want to revise that to at least 6A+ (bio, chem, phys, eng, maths, & add maths) and the rest all A. A- is really looking pathetic, and B would be borderline fail to me, if you look at the SPM grading scale 2010 provided in this thread.

spm grading scale

If you can get into a local public medical school, it's far cheaper than going to Russia I think.

ipta, while not the best in the world, is MUCH MUCH better than russia....

ipta is FREE.....almost....you total 5 years fees is less than rm20k....

the problem is getting in....if you do not get matrik.....

You pay cheaper fees and get better training and medical education.......

IPTAs are cheaper? really? that'd be good news... man I really suck at this whole general-knowledge thing...

Any recommendations? And, normally what'd the fee structure be like? Actual data would be greatly appreciated, can't find em myself(Yeah, I fail at googling, I know) =)

This post has been edited by Jayz0118: Oct 31 2011, 09:56 PM

i already told you......

are you sure you want to be a doctor?.....if you can't understand simple things like this.....

Sorry, you're right. Gotta cut off stupidity completely if I'm ever going to let someone trust me with his/her life.

This post has been edited by Jayz0118: Nov 1 2011, 02:55 PM

If you can get into it........now concentrate on SPM, good luck to you.....

Thanks Makira, I will. =)

I came across this very interesting article published in the American Journal of Public Health detailing health care in the Soviet Union and the years after its collapse.

I would like to highlight several excerpts:

"Government leaders placed heavy emphasis on training large numbers of doctors and providing large numbers of hospital beds. In this rush to expand the system, however, the leaders paid little attention to the quality of personnel or facilities. As part of the overall scarcity of consumer goods and services that developed in the Soviet economy, there also developed an elaborate system of stratification in the availability and quality of health care services. The best care was reserved for those of the highest occupation or political rank."

Anyone notice the similarity to our situation? But, wait there's more...

"Although the Soviet Union boasted more physicians and hospital beds (both absolutely and per capita) than any other country, Chazov (Gorbachev’s first health minister) often found their quality to be abysmal, well below world standards. Corruption, including bribery in the admission and graduation of physicians (a shocking proportion of whom could not perform the simplest medical procedures), had permeated the entire system. Largely as a result of the very low salaries they drew, some health personnel demanded large sums of money from patients to provide services they were supposed to provide for free. A shortage of pharmaceuticals and other medical supplies intensified, leading often to gray or black markets. And on top of all this, the system was paralyzed by a suffocating bureaucracy and a command mentality."

"While physicians were plentiful in number before 1992, their typical skill levels were rudimentary by Western standards. With physicians' professional associations outlawed, there was no system to monitor the quality of care. Physicians
worked for salaries less than that of a typical factory worker. Today there still is no effective organization of physicians in Russia, and physicians' attempts to win concessions from the government through organized work stoppages have been largely unsuccessful."

The MMA may not have been outlawed in Malaysia, but they're almost completely useless/helpless in this regard...

"Physicians have nowhere to go; most of them are civil servants, live on patients' tips, and keep quiet."

Now, my guess is that's the fate awaiting Malaysian medical graduates, if it hasn't already begun...

Source: The Current State of Health Care in the Former Soviet Union: Implications for Health Care Policy and Reform by Donald A. Barr, MD, PhD, and Mark G. Field, PhD

Thanks for that Huskies..."abysmal, corruption, tips...." the similarities never cease to amaze!

the mma is a social association, and has no legal, supervisory, nor trade union power or function.....

you want to talk to the mmc about this......which also does little good, as they function as a rubber stamp body, with major policies decided at political level.....

as for doctors in russia, they actually are considered dirty work people, and has low prestige and pay, and few people wants to be doctors (hence choosing the best is not part of their culture, anyone who wants will be accepted)......they must be laughing why msians are so keen to pay so much money for that dirty job.....

After Russia, the next one will be Malaysia........few years to go....

2011 ... Wish I saw those post when I was at another country , which did not show lowyat at google search .

At here , I am going to reveal only the tip of iceberg ... Oh no , it's too romantic/titanic for this .I am only going to point out the sewer entrance for you . I could write a magical realism novel if complete shithole travel guide is needed. Stay away from Russia university , I could write more about how rotten of ex-USSR country education system . Their teacher work at least 8am-5pm non-stop , thus you think they have extra energy to teach ? The foreign students come from serious third world country , while living at kursk , you will have a delusion that you are living at _____ . Russian students do not need to pay for education , you are the Dollar . There is scandal of RSMU ex-rector selling russian students' places for acceptance of foreign students and he got fired . At least choose over moscow, their citizen speak english , not kursk .

Pros : Indeed , there are many great doctors from different nation graduate from this university by their own effort despite harsh environment . ( just feel good )
There are still some teacher with good knowledge and kind . ( just feel good )

Cons :
There are students trading marijuana in class =.= ,just beside my desk .

Why there are not many people stand out ? This is because of survivor bias , dead men don't speak , they are afraid of the gangster of vested interest groups( agents , _____ fill in yourself , tips: the men who slay the dragon has become the dragon , unfortunately dragon does not exist , only cockroaches crippling ,thus SLAPS the cockroaches ) , but I am not dead and not afraid of it .

"Believe what you want. These walls are funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. After long enough, you get so you depend on 'em. That's institutionalized."- The Shawshank Redemption. When you first reach here , you will need to queue just outside of the office ,waiting for at least 5 hours before start your registration . Nice management . When I saw some other university student blaming how bad their orientation day are , oh , you will not even get an orientation . At first , you will feel how bad this university are , then you will numb about it and accept your fate .At last , you become the dragon and defend for your institutionalized , since you have no choice , adverse-selection happens .

Let me count for you , dont say that you come here just because your family are not rich . It took at least total 6 years , 6 x RM22000 tuition fees per year = 126000 , dont ever forget about the agent fees + RM 20000 , living expense ( food , living stuffs , probably you need to smoke shisha or drink beer with the indian , you will need to pay since your group will definitely buy flower , chocolate at the day of exam ) + RM2000 x 12 x 6 , flight ticket RM2000 x 6 . Now it stands at RM308000 . How about other dark product ( subject price haha ) ? . At local , RM250000 tuition fees , + RM2000 x 12 x 5 years , you could take PTPTN if you study at local , RM20000 x 5 years , and it could be waive if you got good result RM270000 total . There are 32 local universities provide medical course . Think about yourself .
Expect your bugget increase by at least 50 % , there will be many additional medical checkup to suck your money and russia suffers moderate inflation due to sanction , prepare to pay to pass if the teacher does not like you .

Even my house is twice bigger than that one room library , merely a disgrace for being called a university .Don't trust those 5 star agent rating or some low esteem students which desperately inflate their ego .

The WHO recognition claimed by agents is sarcastically lame , it is just a list of medicine school that each country report to WHO , means that a school in Somalia could also be include if the Somalia pirate government hand it in to WHO ,if ALL medical school over the world could be include then what is the meaning and importance of ‘WHO recognize’ ? [search-wdoms-org] ( change - to . )look up for those 'who recognize' Afghanistan or Zimbabwe medicine . Ha , you could be a MILLIONAIRE at there thanks to inflation .

There are no entry requirement , some students don't even know what is the probability of picking 6 red balls from total 10 balls ,which is pathetic , how can the doctor validate about the effectiveness of medicine if he can't understand statistic , oh ... russia doctor choose over profitable drug .The more foolish thing is other groupmates whom are same nation with her are laughing at her , while all of them either worse than her or around same standard . Ignorant until can't see their own stupidity . Some teacher with only degree can also teach , with money you may buy your way to graduation , without money or chocolate present (which will make some teacher nice and blind , pretending you and your whole group are not cheating from your phone or any other method*1, of course they are not gonna to eat the chocolate ,will get diabetes since there are too many, but they could sell it right ) some teacher will not put any attention to your academic hardworking (some student which trust hardworking pay back may get randomly chosen to be fail ,some teacher don't even check your paper , since there are quota of students can pass ,and the place may be secured by those who paid or chocolate ‘lover’ )

Some students at here using primaeval compass instead of moral compass . Some India and Malaysia Indian and Sri Lanka students are party lover , chatting loud in class , plucking apple from hospital or over the fences .
1: wearing hidden earphone which could communicate with outside world , DouBle phone or TRIPLE phone technique ( put one or even two of you phone on the teacher's desk , but sure you gotta hide one under your desk LOL ) , faking the documents , but dont expect you could cheat your way to graduation , some teachers are strict , so you will need to PAY .

*Anyone can edit fakipedia , and there are writer living as paid editor ,Thats why you should not trust fakipedia >< (en-wikipedia-org/w/index.php?title=Kursk_State_Medical_University&diff=843905430&oldid=843895235) , again , change - to . , search up for wikipediocracy "People that I would say are trolls sort of took over. The inmates started running the asylum." - Wiki co-founder Larry Sanger .

This post has been edited by RichardYew1: Jun 17 2018, 01:13 AM


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Dude this fossilized thread is already older than China civilisation

I did mention at the start of the post I just copy those from facebook review, the purpose is not to relive the discussion. These advertisements and propaganda of those agents truly work, so many Malaysian are joining the MLM university. They did try to open a Kursk campus at Malaysia LOL, but not sure can I find the news, it is written in Russian and I saw it a long time ago. Not sure about now. The MMC minimum requirements are totally ignored, most TMC students just go with 3 - 6-month foundation, I even just bought the whole cert ( I did have a pre-u which could never be bought, not the Russia pre-med )

There is now a surplus of doctors and enrolment has dropped in all IPTS....the ipta places has been cut 20-30% by the government....

Not sure if the enrolment in degree mills in Russia has dropped....but certainly a lot less advertisements...

All foreign medical graduates may need to sit for a qualifying exam if the new government agrees to the MMC proposal....

huh... enrolment has dropped in all IPTS is due to market ? I don't have the precise data for degree mills , but it does not seem there is a reduction in degree mills , maybe the opposite site . The university does not care for the students since they are not lacking students at all , there are events of students which just copy the whole paper of other students in final exam , but it turned out the copier get pass but the copied get fail , then the student cried and ask the teacher to let her see her paper , rejected . A lot less advertisements ? The mXdXX EX still having education fair together with monash eg. The advertisements are very successful in term of me , gave up prestigious university and go to degree mills . The final project is fake , the correct way of doing it is the whole group buy few stethoscope and gift it to teacher . The teacher used whole class to hint me about this , while I was the only one who have no clue about these , was so dumb that time haha Most countries do have qualifying exam , China even require their local graduate to pass the exam , who to bribe when dealing with live-saving meh ~~~

Malaysia has 40+ medical colleges nowadays,why would still want to go overseas and study medicine?

If you compare the prices of Russian universities versus Malaysian private universities,there isn't much difference.

Medicine is a peculiar field ;you will be happier studying in place that practices medicine similar to the place where you want to work at.And it definitely makes the transition to housemanship easier!

Want to be a doctor in Malaysia? find a university in Malaysia.likewise for Australia,UK,India,Europe.

But let's say if your parent's finances are only fit for Russia
(or better yet they say:why should I spend nearly rm1,000,000 for a MBBS from IMU when I can send you to Russia for a GRAND TOTAL of RM200,000-300,000? )

-learn all that you can.it may not feel adequate,but just do it!
-ELECTIVE POSTINGS IN MALAYSIA FOR YOUR HOLIDAYS are very important.do it.Become any Medical Officer/House Officer's office boy/sidekick in the hospital,learn as much as you can!!!
-Be acquainted with Malaysian Clinical Practice Guidelines
-PRE-HOUSEMANSHIP COURSES.find one and join please!
-Be fluent in Russian.so that you can clerk and examine patients in Russian.And at the same time training your clinical acumen.If you have a chance to wander around the wards,go see the patients.IF they don't want to work with you,move on to the next.
-Russian textbooks actually form the skeleton of the training there;even for the Bilingual/English medium programs.If things don't make sense/or mysterious terms that are not commonly heard in English----try looking again in Russian.
-if you have Malaysian/Commonwealth medical school based friends; work with them.cross-match your notes and textbooks.fill up gaps in your knowledge.get to be familiar with how things are done and mentioned in Malaysian medical practice.
-Is Malaysia your dream place to practice? Wanna be international and do the USMLE,PLAB and related while at it?