Sorry I must have missed reading your post

So far I only have the bass and backing vocal tracks. Here is the track that I completed to edit (I included the orig song as backing track so you can use this)
http://www.mediafire.com/?332274ylw153yb1

This track contains the following:
1.Backing track - Orig song
2.Bass track - by rarap
3.Verse/Chorus/Bridge backing vocals - by nablitz



This weekend I will include my guitar track and hopefully Deadfrog can give me his part too.



This post has been edited by killerkamote7: Dec 7 2011, 12:11 AM

i think i better follow the work in progress. i extracted the audio track from the official MV and the tempo 148.79 does not sync, it's 148.15 instead.

Noted. You can use this WIP track:

http://www.mediafire.com/?332274ylw153yb1

checked the WIP track, yes, 148.79 sync, but not 100% of the whole song. i don't know what happened to the WIP track, something wasn't right to begin with.

i'd like to check a few things:

1. killer, when you edit the recorded track, did you cut the original track to accommodate? because the WIP track sounds like it's edited, pretty unnatural especially the pre-chorus to chorus. DAW nowadays are very advanced, you may had activated the time stretch by accident when you edit it, which you shouldn't. just want to double check.

2. anyone who started to record the first track, did you provide the mp3 that you referenced? it's dangerous that everyone has a reference track that's slightly different from each other.

as mentioned in my previous post, i extracted the audio file from the official MV and it sync perfectly with 148.15bpm, from beginning until the very end. you have to adjust the track so that it sync right from the very first note until the last one. easiest way to sync the tempo is to make sure you find the very first drum hit, in this case, the first chorus. percussive tracks like drums are easy to sync because you can see the hits on the waveform view. then adjust the tempo until everything sync.

i can probably record over the current WIP track but i can guarantee you that it'll never sound in sync, or tight.

little ice,Dec 7 2011, 01:13 AM
checked the WIP track, yes, 148.79 sync, but not 100% of the whole song. i don't know what happened to the WIP track, something wasn't right to begin with.

i'd like to check a few things:

1. killer, when you edit the recorded track, did you cut the original track to accommodate? because the WIP track sounds like it's edited, pretty unnatural especially the pre-chorus to chorus. DAW nowadays are very advanced, you may had activated the time stretch by accident when you edit it, which you shouldn't. just want to double check.

Actually I didn't touch anything on the original track. Not sure if I accidentally activated the time stretch (warping), will check later. What do you mean by unnatural, you mean the bpm changes on the pre and chorus? or you mean the bass and vocals? I've put on some effects on the backing vocals just for experimenting, if it's ugly, I will remove the effects. Anyway, the difference on the bpm should be no issue as DAWs can modify all tracks to follow 1 common pacing (bpm)

2. anyone who started to record the first track, did you provide the mp3 that you referenced? it's dangerous that everyone has a reference track that's slightly different from each other.

As long as the reference song is within 148bpm (the .xx doesn't matter) can be used.
Please take note we used this approach (to have the orig track as reference) because we didn't have the reference track (drum or bass).

Later on, we will utilize online collaboration websites, i.e. IndabaMusic and Kompoz so that our recording will be organized and have a common dashboard to work on. If everyone agrees, we can start using this.
For info, you may check on this:
Kompoz Online Collaboration Tutorial Video

as mentioned in my previous post, i extracted the audio file from the official MV and it sync perfectly with 148.15bpm, from beginning until the very end. you have to adjust the track so that it sync right from the very first note until the last one. easiest way to sync the tempo is to make sure you find the very first drum hit, in this case, the first chorus. percussive tracks like drums are easy to sync because you can see the hits on the waveform view. then adjust the tempo until everything sync.

i can probably record over the current WIP track but i can guarantee you that it'll never sound in sync, or tight.

Noted on this, thanks for your inputs

This post has been edited by killerkamote7: Dec 7 2011, 10:32 AM

no the bpm changes didn't happen on the pre-chorus, but it sounds like the very first bass hit/main vocal part has been shifted slightly late, then the first pickup vocal of the chorus sounds like it pick up earlier (due to the shifted pre-chorus). i'm not aware of any effect used though, but whichever you did, you can reverse it as long as you have backups.

by the way, i THINK you might have applied destructive effect processing, which introduce delay (latency) and resulting the whole pre-chorus delayed. usually this shouldn't happen since all DAW can compensate the latency, but there should be some setting that resulted the delay.


this is not the correct approach, regardless of being professional or amateur works. if you work on 148bpm and i work on 148.79bpm, the song will start to sound out of sync as soon as the first chorus. not very badly out of sync, but obvious enough to think "why the band not in sync?".

yes, live players can't play like midi which every note can be quantized perfectly. and it's natural to have the best player in the world still play a little loose. but recording in different tempo is going to be a much worse issue. you'll have a nightmare to sync the whole thing, and especially when you bring in the drum track, even if you can somehow sync everything, you'll most probably get a clumsy sounding drum track.

a common practice in the professional world, drums will usually be the first one to record first but as long as there's a midi mockup, any instrument/vocal can be recorded first but recording the drums first will have the advantage of playing in very tight sync with the drummer for other live instruments. even before the digital recording was popular, musicians still use metronome as a guidance to record. if there's no metronome track, rarely the band will record separately, they'll have to record together to ensure the whole playing is tight. not to say we should practice the professional way, but at least we try to avoid disasters.


ok will check it out.

This post has been edited by little ice: Dec 7 2011, 12:39 PM

can I have the YT name of everyone in the band?

Lets get more closer and organized together as a band. What I do with my other 2 online band is we all use Windows Live Messenger. We can share tracks, ideas, and speak our minds in a quick and clear fashion.

Do we have a band name?

Is there a specific deadline when I have to turn my part in? It's going to be a group video collab right?

i think it's going to be record first then shoot a video?

can we like do a basic form of the song in midi? it's easier to adjust the tempo in midi form. we can use the cello parts to indicate which is the verse and chorus. we can use a steady drum pattern preferably in midi too as some sort of metronome. then everyone will reference the same midi with the same tempo.

no way man.

You have to record sound and record video at the same time. or else we'll get caught.

you can catch all the MV artists and singers then...

Yup,ur right.nowadays,videos in utube all r edited

actually i quite agree on the idea of using midi track.or if we want to use the original background,then warping function is the only way(which i use in making my bass track).btw i really need to warp everytime i use ableton since if i just put in the song by default,it will b in bizzare tempo(early part will b superfast and towards d end itll bcome super slow).dunno y this happens.by warping only the problem solved.dats y i just warp the ori track to 148bpm,and check the track so dat it sync with ableton metronome and start recording my bass track

actually, if you want to do a cover and record your bass track directly over the original track, you shouldn't just warp the track *before* finding the correct tempo and sync it. there'll be some inconsistency in the tempo and if you record your bass over the warped track, you'll find your bass track isn't consistent to the 148bpm metronome when you solo your bass track or mute the original track.

making a midi mockup means someone has to sequence the midi notes/tracks from ground up. there might be someone already done it, but you have to make sure that it's a usable midi track.

i'm going to upload the audio track from the MV, the beginning of the audio track is trimmed to match exactly the very beginning of the track. you guys try to import it into DAW and set the tempo to 148.15bpm, and you'll know why it's important to set the correct tempo first before recording anything. Will edit this post later when upload is done.

http://www.mediafire.com/?anb0ouurrujuol2m

This post has been edited by little ice: Dec 7 2011, 03:32 PM

here's a midi http://www.mediafire.com/?u37p2v7t3ma1035 it is set to 148bpm, no decimals

This post has been edited by deadfrog: Dec 7 2011, 04:14 PM

Oh yes, thanks for highlighting that. It's not that rarap played that totally out of synch but It was my mistake when I tried to shift the bass lines to synch with the original song, need tedious work on that (by moving/inserting space/lengthen the notes). Let me re-adjust the bass track.

That's because I applied Vocal Stereo Repeater on the pre-chorus for the backing vocals, it has decay time at 23%. Hmm Il'l remove it

Thanks for your info, I didn't know that even minute tempo difference would cause so much trouble. How about we wait for the drum track from CDGmaboroshi and then we use that as the baseline?

We can use Messenger yes but the problem is availability. Maybe we can have setup a short discussion whomever is available. Weekend afternoon is fine with me.

Band name? We have not think of that yet

Deadline is last week of December to produce the final track. When can you provide your part?
You may record the audio and video at the same time, my only worry is synching later on.
I'm not that good using Sony Vegas.

That's what I'm doing too and it's wrong (from little ice post)

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Added on December 7, 2011, 4:19 pmNice,,Where's the 'like' button?

This post has been edited by killerkamote7: Dec 7 2011, 04:19 PM

WOW i missed a lot these few days. I think it's clear that the song's bpm is definitely not constant.
I noticed when i was recording the vocal track that the original song gets faster around the first chorus.

So i guess now we'll wait for the drum track before going further?

This post has been edited by nabzblitz: Dec 7 2011, 05:41 PM

you guys are worrying me lol

what's all this deal and issue about BPM?
something not consistent?

Also, if video happens to be finalized, who will upload the final video??

By d way,i checked the warp ori track back with the ableton metronome,both are sync correctly for the whole song.however,ive no prob if u guys want me to start recording again.hope we got proper baseline for the recording

bpm issue is more pronounced than you can imagine.

100bpm vs 100.1bpm = 100km/h vs 100.1km/h

imagine 2 cars running constantly at 100km/h and another at 100.1km/h, you'll soon see 1 car running ahead of the slower one pretty soon, even just a difference of 0.1km/h.

if everyone is following the same tempo, everybody's track can be synced right away without the need to edit or warp *anything* at all. all you can expect is a little loose performance due to being a live player's track, but you won't hear some tracks getting faster and faster, or slower.

EDIT: ok since rarap confirm that his warped track sync correctly to the 148bpm, i suggest rarap to upload his warped track to killer and everyone else as the main reference track, and everyone else should record based on rarap's bass track and warped original track to avoid syncing problem.

This post has been edited by little ice: Dec 7 2011, 07:18 PM

yeah, I figured. But it's not the answer I'm looking for.

It's not that hard. Just record video and rip up audacity at the same time and it's all good.

Or is this one the problem?

(I understand that a lot of YT videos have some flaws in its BPM because of so many people reuploading/recycling etc.) Just decide on which specific video to follow so we can all follow the same tempo.