i used to ask this question to dr. kong who wrote this book:
http://silverinmalaysia.com/silver-the-new...-kong-voon-sin/
he couldnt give me a solid answer and just said that keep as long as you can and dont sell it until really need the cash, which i dont feel satisfied with such explanation.
i wonder anyone has any though on the above too, please enlighten me

the closest i read so far is as Mike Maloney suggested, use silver to measure other asset class to determine the fair value of silver

This post has been edited by property101: Dec 28 2011, 11:54 PM

Property101

Dr.Kong, I presume, is an academic and I reckon he:

1. does not want to reveal too much because you haven't paid him enough to do so or

2. does not know the answer because he does not have the werewithal to track and integrate world affairs, business and economics to make that call.

Mike has a team that looks into all of these aspects (he refers to it as a "basket of indicators") before he comes up with a call to exit. Some of the indicators include:

1. Gold:Silver ratio (straightforward choose your number)
2. Amount of silver to buy a median sized house (tricky one for definitions)
3. Amount of gold to buy a share of the Dow

The simple solution to know this?

1. Buy from Goldsilver (win-win situation)
2. Subscribe to WealthCycles (cheapest at USD226 per year)

There are other premium newsletters but they cost a mint (RMxxxx.0).

I hope this helps.

This post has been edited by pubmut: Dec 29 2011, 12:17 AM

I'm getting attached to silver, so I agree this is a dangerous situation to avoid.

In Mike's book, he did mentioned his ultimate goal is to convert his silver to real estate in the future. I'm not sure he is trying to "help promote his mentor" or his exit strategy is really that.

But it's a good one though. I should think :
1) We must and should convert our wealth to something that is with limit.
- silver and gold seemed to be in constant supply, just not able to meet demand, so it should not be the ultimate objective. On the other hand, real estate and energy is. Currently it is cheap energy, but I'm worried it will become expensive and limited in the future.

2) We should exit when we see the potential of a good swap from our PM to the limited resources.

3) When we are wealthy (does anyone remember how to measure wealth? this is a test to see who read robert's book, hee hee) We should invest our time and money into researching alternative energy or solution to how we can live happily at low cost NOT controlled by oil and electricity. such as solar, wind or even water powered.

Am I babbling or does it sound viable to you guys?

chef

PS Sell your PM for CASH is not the objective of investing in PM, that's the simple summary.

For the sleepless, the apmex retail price for silver just started dropping below 30 for the monster box. Need I say anything for gold? What good news for us, except that all are waiting with baited breath for that bottom that will never arrive.

Chef
It's past midnight and you're babbling.

As long as you dig/drill for something, it is finite. Trade your PMs for bicycles, a farm (or farms) with good water source, various seeds to plant and a truly ecologically sound house to live, not to mention guns and ammo to go with it - seriously.

Rgds

updated silver sell list, got some new items
Silver Sell List

Hey guys, this is my very first post in here . I just stumbled in here because of all the Silver mania. First off I would like to say that Silver is the New Gold.

Silver currently is underpriced compared to gold. And a lot of people here are right when they say that Silver appreciates at a higher rate than gold.

If you believe that Silver is a great investment, and if you believe that Silver is a great Hedge against inflation, Congratulations!!

Lastly, if you believe in all of the above, PM me and I can actually show you how to make the most of your Silver investments. FOC ! HAHAHAH... Nothing to lose but a lot to gain.

PS. I'm referring to Physical Silver because in the end of the day, a piece of paper will remain a piece of paper. It has no monetary/exchange value. The paper comes from a tree.... So be eco-friendly and go Physical !

Cheers !!

Jepression

Outlook 2012: Silver Should See Renewed Investor Interest On Global Finance Worries
28 December 2011, 10:04 a.m.

By Gary Wulf, contributing to Kitco News

Source

(Kitco News) - Silver bulls should have cause to celebrate once again in 2012, even though supply/demand hangovers caused by an intoxicating run to early-year record highs actually has them swallowing small losses for 2011.

Many experts predict silver prices will end 2012 at double or triple their mid-December level of around $29 an ounce, although a few bearish holdouts believe the market could lose another $10 from here.

DEMAND

"I see $60 silver by the end of 2012," said David Morgan, independent precious metals analyst with Silver-Investor.com. "Demand from investors will pick up, as we see continued deterioration of the world financial system."

HSBC Securities also foresees renewed investor interest and a 7% expansion in global demand in 2012, to an unprecedented 968 million ounces. TD Securities looks for an even greater 9% gain, to 1.021 billion ounces.

"Demand for silver will be sustained by global concerns about fiscal profligacy, political gridlock on dealing with the U.S. budget deficit, long-term sustainability of the U.S. dollar, potential inflationary consequences of highly accommodative monetary polices, and economic uncertainty," HSBC said. "Coin and small-bar demand may moderate from current high levels, but remain strong, further contributing to silver price strength."

HSBC predicts possible spikes to $40/oz "or even higher," in 2012 and a season-average price of $34/oz.

"Silver acts like a precious metal on the way up and an industrial metal on the way down," said Gijsbert Groenewegen, managing partner of Silver Arrow Capital Management in New York. "Silver will move contrary to the trend of the U.S. (dollar)."

Several analysts believe collapse of the euro is now all but inevitable; a watershed event which will send EU investors fleeing to the relative safety and liquidity of the huge U.S. bond/dollar market.

“Metals have mutated from 'safe haven' assets to 'risk' assets," said Spencer Patton, founder of Steel Vine Investments, who predicts 2012 will end with silver quoted around $18. "I expect 2012 will present some major changes in the eurozone," that will lead to weaker silver prices.

Groenewegen concurred, but warns that strength in the dollar -- and accompanying weakness in demand for silver -- may be very short-lived, however.

"The financial situation in the U.S. is not much better than the EU. If politicians fail to reduce the U.S. debt, interest rates will skyrocket and paper money will lose all credibility," potentially sending silver spiking to stratospheric levels as high as $200-400.

SUPPLY

Several leading research firms and banks expect a 1% to 6% increase in the global silver supply during 2012, as scrap redemptions accelerate and mine production grows.

"Silver mine output has been rising notably for years. Silver prices are multiples above the costs of production," said HSBC. "The result has been an acceleration in silver output that would have been almost unimaginable, just a few years ago."

HSBC expects total world supply to exceed 1.1 billion ounces in 2012, representing a 24.4% increase over levels seen as recently as 2008.

"TDS models are suggesting that the silver market will be oversupplied this year and over the next two years, as production grows," said the Canadian-based firm, which predicts a 109 million ounce surplus for 2012.

"In the past, silver’s industrial side has generated deep corrections for the white metal and we don’t expect it will be much different this time around, with a correction to materially below $25/oz entirely possible," TDS said.

Still, Patton said that long-term supply/demand factors remain relatively positive for silver.

"Every cell phone in the world has a little bit of silver in it--and once silver is used, it is gone. We should see tremendous expansion in the handset world for the foreseeable future," he said. "Thus we are seeing an infinitely declining amount of silver on the planet...but in 2012 we may see more supply entering the market, as many silver speculators sell."

OVERVIEW

In summary, most analysts feel the strong underlying fundaments which lifted silver to new heights in 2011 have not changed, even though April's record has since been slashed by more than 40%, leaving values languishing $1.85 lower versus where 2010 ended, around $28.78/oz.

"We are still using fiat money and (sovereign) debt levels are still extremely high. The debts have to be paid or defaulted on. Either way, that means significantly reduced economic activity world-wide," said independent analyst Hubert Moolman. "That likely also means another big stock market crash. Before this happens, it would be foolish to talk about a top in precious metals," because these conditions are precisely what will drive silver prices significantly higher.

This post has been edited by property101: Dec 29 2011, 10:14 AM

broke down to 27... Y.E.S. on friday?

means wat?
lowest 26.64. might go down to below 25?

USD26 is very strong...not sure Y.E.S. can break it

even though USD26 is not broken, the price now is very cheap already. those who have extra bullets should at least buy some. later if it goes up, u can smile already. if it still goes down, continue buying. i hope u guys don't lose hope in PM. the future is still there, we just dont know when....

Most definitely. A lot of companies are already shooting "silver bullets" into the market because it's low now. They are expecting it to spike up next year.

ok, just bought another 10 oz, if dont buy feel sorry for myself

WOW!! The silver fever is back on!!

Lowest it hit just now is USD 26.08! wow, incredible!! Tonight is the battle for the support at USD 26, and the pressure to push it way down low.

chef

---

Added on December 29, 2011, 8:49 pmI thought so too, went to sleep immediately after that. my mind is a little clearer now.

Anyway, it's both true and false. True as in if we really want to calculate the amount of gold on earth, I'm sure we will be able to come up with a figure. False, is because the sheer amount of gold and silver on earth is so huge, like the number of stars, or sands, we human just give it a "INFINITE" value. there are gold in deep sea and we do not have the technology to dig for it yet.

As for swapping for something useful, I have bicycle, small tiny little farm (enough for two), various seeds (but I'm sure not enough to last more than 5 years), some solar energy powered lightings (I'm waiting for the new solar device to be release in the market, which is already designed and patented) BUT no guns and ammo. but lots of knife and practice throwing them...

chef



This post has been edited by chef: Dec 29 2011, 08:49 PM

haha chef....u are well prepared for the worst time
but i hope and pray hard that day wouldnt come for u to make use of all those

This post has been edited by property101: Dec 29 2011, 10:03 PM

What is your take on future metals confiscation?

There are much talks about currency going ack to gold standard, and for this to be efficient, "Govts" have to be the only body that owns gold and silver.

I foresee future import from overseas will be challenging.

I have been researching Silver and Gold prices with another guru of mine who has been in technical analysis for 20 years.

Without a doubt, Silver price is undervalued. Having that said, even if silver is being adjusted to it's true value, they may introduce a new world currency which has been a hot topic among the banksters and international mafia federation, I mean the IMF.

I agree with Mike Maloney to measure your G&S with another commodity. For instance, 500 years ago it cost 1 dinar to buy a goat (4.25 gram gold). 2 weeks ago, I paid the same amount of value measured against paper money to purchase a roast lamb!

Also look at the research done by James Turk where he measured gold vs all the major currencies and also oil at base 100, same amount of gold still buy same barrel of oil.

My opinion on when to sell your silver, is depending on individual goals. There is no perfect answer. Personally, I have enough monthly cashflow coming in, all of my savings are converted in to G&S at ratio of 1:9, ie 10% gold, 90% silver. When do I plan to sell, never, unless emergency.

As for those who wish to make some "profit", I would suggest considering the derivative of G&S where you can long / short. The psychology of paper trading and physical G&S is different.

Understand the real purpose of G&S ownership. I dont really encourage using the word "investment". Reason being when you sell your G&S, valuing against fiat currencies may look like you have profited, but what is the same is your purchasing power. Cost of goods may have gone up. Hence most gurus out there always emphasize preservation of wealth. What you are really doing, is putting money, back into the "REAL" money.

When it comes to the type of bullion I purchase, I am buying as much variety as possible, especially Dinar and Dirham. Due to the fact that it has religious value, those banksters may have challenges to confiscate these should Gold Standard really returns.

my 2 cents.

Just want to parrot this line shared by property101's article:

"Silver acts like a precious metal on the way up and an industrial metal on the way down"

It is so right and so apt.

@ccdin1, nice one!
whats your view on the eventual out come for the currency war we are going through? and how will it affect PM especially silver?

This post has been edited by property101: Dec 30 2011, 12:12 AM

Currency war? I couldn't care less. Cos they are manipulated by the same group of cartel anyway. The secret is 1.618. Perfect manipulation on currencies, commodities and other equities. Forget about supply and demand.

Since they have the ability to control one of the world biggest business ie currencies, without a doubt, they also control mainstream medias- musics, newspapers, tv, magazines, etc, and maybe..war.

My suggestion is to treat every dip as an opportunity / discounts from these cartel to buy as much as possible for yourself. Only sell during emergency. Cash ain't king, cashflow is. Improve financial intelligence to have better cashflow, and hence to be able to purchase G&S consistently.

Having that said, owning G&S isn't the perfect solution. There are so many uncertainties because we are living in the most critical turning point of human history. Never there was a time where the whole world currencies are back by one currency money (USD) in human history. We have zero perfect reference. But, past history will prepare us better than those 90% herd who just want to make a quick bucks.

I am all in for preparation, there is nothing to speculate. "They" control everything. WE are just the tiny dust.

As far as silver standing is concerned, the potential is definitely there. I need not further illustrate. Keeping smaller denomination is definitely my preference.

I have a habit of doing a "self check" once a while to make sure psychologically I am alright when come to G&S ownership. Ask the question, WHAT IF, one day, the SPOT PRICE of G&S drop to ZERO, do you think you have lost all your "money"?

cheers.

---

Added on December 30, 2011, 12:49 amI got myself a folding bike, AWD, learning how to grow my own food, some weapons, and staying with a community who really understand what is coming.

Solo preparation = no preparation.

*winks

This post has been edited by ccdin1: Dec 30 2011, 12:49 AM

Ha ha!! very good discussion!!

Well, having no preparation is worst than solo preparation. But it takes time to educate the people around us on PM, after such a long period of government brain washing, there's only always less than 1% in a community who believe. But, I had already started with my family, and slowly, their friends.

But you're right in a sense, the world will come to adopt a new currency, and I really don't think G&S will immediately jumped to the forefront, but an alternate currency which is either oil backed, G&S backed, or Country backed (china for instance). I have always mention to people, your currency is only good if it can buy you something. Ignoring USD, if you have NZD 10k in your possession (NEW ZEALAND DOLLAR), and they do not produce anything worth buying, or anything at all, nobody will want their currency, and we will swap it for RM, because we know we can buy something with RM now.

Looking at what china is doing, they are likely to take over as the world currency with enough PM to backed them as an added precaution. (This is just discussion, I'm not saying this is true) So RMB might have the potential to take over the role of USD just like after world war 2. Alternatively, IMF may just launch a new MONEY like EURO dollar and everyone will swap their existing money for the new dollar, but it will be hell doing that like how much RM for 1 NWD (new dollar), how much SGD for 1 NWD. without using a current rate as benchmark. But to switch to another currency like RMB or SWF (swiss franc) with existing rate may be less hassle and more accepted worldwide.

But the good news is, the world will not collapse yet, our G&S will still be used as hedge, and we will have more time to prepare for whatever might come in the future.

chef

PS If the government want to confiscate G&S, they will do so no matter what form it comes in, even dinar or dirham or small beads. The customer treated all silver and gold as silver and gold now, they will do so if they panic, so keep your PM at home, underground. but I don't think overseas or local vault is a solution too. These vault are either private, banks controlled or government controlled, all can close down and content auction off when push comes to shove.

(Just for discussion sake, not to take my word as education material please, ha ha...)