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 Solar Power Generation, for home use/sell back to tnb

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ozak
post Oct 10 2012, 12:57 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Oct 10 2012, 12:26 PM)
From the same website:

Easy calculations for system size and cost:

If you know your average kwh/day or know how many kwh/day you would like to produce, a simple calculation will determine system size and cost.

System size in kilowatts (kw) = (kwh/day) / 4 hours (peak sun) x 1.43 (system losses)
Step 1: Divide average kwh/day by number of hours of peak sun, or (kwh/ay) / 4
Step 2: Multiply by 1.43 to account for system losses due to friction, heat, and other inefficiencies.

Example: What size system is needed to produce 20kwh/day?

20kwh/4h = 5kw
5kw x 1.43= 7.15kw
7.15kw = system size to produce 20kwh/day assuming 4 peak sun hours (11am to 3pm).
Making it in reversed, since we mention 4KW panel,
(4KW / 1.43) x 4 hours = 11.2KW, that is about RM 12.6 per day. about RM 380 per month. About RM 91k for 20 years.

This provided good sunshine all year yound, and no equipment faulty.
*
Here the actual figure for a 4.8kw pv install in local here.

Average daily generate is about 15kwh in june. Total a month is 450.39kwh. 450kwh x 1.23 = rm553.5/mth.

The lowest generate is dec.
weikee
post Oct 10 2012, 01:05 PM

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How much is the 4.8Kw pv complete installation?

Think that will need about 300sqft area
avereng
post Oct 10 2012, 01:25 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Oct 10 2012, 12:37 PM)
No.2 is correct. If you install in 2012, the rate is rm1.23/kwh. And the contract seal this rate for 21yrs.
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I support. No2 is correct.
that's y need to install quick.


Added on October 10, 2012, 1:29 pm
QUOTE(weikee @ Oct 10 2012, 01:05 PM)
How much is the 4.8Kw pv complete installation?

Think that will need about 300sqft area
*
4.8kW=4800W
4800W/230W = 20.86
So, it will need 21 x 230W panels

1 panel needs 1.6m2.
21 panel need 1.6 x 21 =33.6m2

If using higher capacity panel, less panel required.






This post has been edited by avereng: Oct 10 2012, 01:29 PM
ozak
post Oct 10 2012, 02:24 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Oct 10 2012, 01:05 PM)
How much is the 4.8Kw pv complete installation?

Think that will need about 300sqft area
*
Probably can cost you rm75k if rm15k/kw.

For space depend on panel brand and type. Just google some PV panel and calculate the size. Average double storey house should be no problem. provided your roof not crazy shape design.
avereng
post Oct 16 2012, 02:46 PM

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Today The Star
http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.asp?...6&sec=lifefocus

No investment needed to have solar power system
lyksell
post Feb 7 2013, 01:36 PM

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I have compiled some of the readings and questions came to me about this Solar FIT as an investment, feel free to check my blog and maybe your comments and view ... my head is spinning not sure is it really a good investment ....

http://investmaze.blogspot.com/2013/02/sol...rch-part-i.html
ozak
post Feb 8 2013, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(lyksell @ Feb 7 2013, 01:36 PM)
I have compiled some of the readings and questions came to me about this Solar FIT as an investment, feel free to check my blog and maybe your comments and view ... my head is spinning not sure is it really a good investment ....

http://investmaze.blogspot.com/2013/02/sol...rch-part-i.html
*
Let give the time to proof. No hurry. About few yrs time, you can compile the ppl experince of the return.

It is a richman investment now. Put your money in others investment if you are middle class investor.
lyksell
post Feb 12 2013, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Feb 8 2013, 11:30 AM)
Let give the time to proof. No hurry. About few yrs time, you can compile the ppl experince of the return. 

It is a richman investment now. Put your money in others investment if you are middle class investor.
*
Not sure to agree or not, but true that i don't feel easy on this investment ..... no confident ... and maybe that's why other can be success and i can't, just too many worries ...
ozak
post Feb 12 2013, 10:44 PM

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QUOTE(lyksell @ Feb 12 2013, 10:13 PM)
Not sure to agree or not, but true that i don't feel easy on this investment ..... no confident ... and maybe that's why other can be success and i can't, just too many worries ...
*
What other ppl can be success? Looking at local side, we just start this. Do they already have 3-5yrs data for you to check?

There is still many investment out there. What so extract to you this investment. If the return is low?

If you have spare money that you can spend, than go ahead and try.
kamion
post Feb 28 2013, 04:47 PM

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I just called up a company that does this. For a 4kW installation, they quoted RM40k for everything all-in, including application, installation, testing and commissioning.

From application to testing & commissioning takes 3 months, but they had reports that TNB only started paying a few months after commissioning, and there's some problem with TNB reading the Feed-In meters.

The company tells me that some of their customers have found the system to be outputting higher than the company's initial estimate for them, though their oldest installation is only 1 year-old.

Using Bosch panels rated at 250W peak each (1660 x 990mm) with SMA inverter. For a 4kW install, 16 panels required. Area of 26.3 sq metre or 283 sq ft.

If we take a monthly income of RM460, that's RM5,520 a year. The initial RM40k can be recovered in just about 7.25 years. (How'd I get the RM460/month? Bro ozak gave RM550/month from a 4.8kW installation, so I just factored it down to 4kW).

I see a house a few streets away with a solar install, I will walk over and have a chat with the house owner one day to see what's his experience so far.

Forgot to mention: maintenance is RM1,600 for 2 years - half yearly cleaning and inspection, which I think is quite high!

This post has been edited by kamion: Feb 28 2013, 05:06 PM
darvolver
post Mar 1 2013, 10:06 PM

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QUOTE(kamion @ Feb 28 2013, 04:47 PM)
I just called up a company that does this. For a 4kW installation, they quoted RM40k for everything all-in, including application, installation, testing and commissioning.

From application to testing & commissioning takes 3 months, but they had reports that TNB only started paying a few months after commissioning, and there's some problem with TNB reading the Feed-In meters.

The company tells me that some of their customers have found the system to be outputting higher than the company's initial estimate for them, though their oldest installation is only 1 year-old.

Using Bosch panels rated at 250W peak each (1660 x 990mm) with SMA inverter. For a 4kW install, 16 panels required. Area of 26.3 sq metre or 283 sq ft.

If we take a monthly income of RM460, that's RM5,520 a year. The initial RM40k can be recovered in just about 7.25 years. (How'd I get the RM460/month? Bro ozak gave RM550/month from a 4.8kW installation, so I just factored it down to 4kW).

I see a house a few streets away with a solar install, I will walk over and have a chat with the house owner one day to see what's his experience so far.

Forgot to mention: maintenance is RM1,600 for 2 years - half yearly cleaning and inspection, which I think is quite high!
*
Been calculating this for a while. can PM me your solar company contact? quite a good price he gave you.
amberglow
post Mar 2 2013, 09:10 PM

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Folks,

Let me pour a cold bucket of water over your enthusiasm for Solar PV for Malaysia Climate.

It is a myth that Malaysia enjoys lots of bright sunshine - we definitely do not!

Why? Malaysia is surrounded by water and is extremely humid on any given day you will be hard pressed to see a clear blue sky. We do not get clear blue skies like Germany, USA, and Australia. The heavy cloud cover filters out a fair amount of light needed for solar panels to run at top efficiency. Most rated Solar Panels are factory tested with simulated lighting which assumes no cloud cover. In Malaysia the peak sunlight is from 12pm to 2pm; which gives you the highest efficiency assuming it is not a cloudy day or raining - and the bright sunny days we get are perhaps 30 days the most out of 365 days. The rest of the time it is cloudy with heavy cloud cover. Believe me, do your own research. Everyday go look up in the sky, and note how bright and how hot it is and how much cloud cover you see.

Thereby you will need to adjust your power generation calculations where you will have only 2 hours of full sunlight (90% efficiency), and 4 hours of 50% efficiency. You need to factor in the inverter energy loss as well; so at the end of the day your 5kwatt solar pv footprint may only generate less than 1kwatt.

Draw your own conclusions, given the very expensive solar PV installations the return on investment is not way too long. Have you ever wondered why Malaysia being one of the main solar PV manufacturing countries do not have a domestic market. Well, the ROI does not make sense. Solar PV generation is not a viable investment.

If you really do decide to proceed with Solar PV, please remember the panels need to be cleaned frequently to remove soot and dust and bird droppings. Can you imagine yourself that you will climb up the roof every week to clean the panels or willing to pay someone to climb up the roof to clean the panels.

Next. you have to consider if you are considering a grid-tied system or a battery system.

Finally, FiT is only for a "limited" number of participants. So not every Tom, d*** and Harry is allowed to install Solar PV and sell back to TNB.

Cheers.

This post has been edited by amberglow: Mar 2 2013, 09:14 PM
ozak
post Mar 10 2013, 01:06 PM

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This wednesday pass through Bagan Datoh, Selangor and saw a solar farm. Probably just setup. Look quite big and maybe produce MW?

user posted image

user posted image
weikee
post Mar 10 2013, 01:33 PM

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Should take back some of the panel back home smile.gif
ozak
post Mar 11 2013, 12:31 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Mar 10 2013, 01:33 PM)
Should take back some of the panel back home smile.gif
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That is my purpose of taking the picture. brows.gif look like high security. 2 gate and fence separate by buffer zone. Just like those important place.
Gutty.T
post Mar 11 2013, 03:51 PM

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QUOTE(phanghy @ Oct 4 2012, 01:52 AM)
I have just bought a subsale house fitted with pv. Does anyone know if the original tnb agreement can be transferred to new owner?
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Yes, u can transfer the ownership. you may refer www.seda.gov.my
azsace
post Mar 27 2013, 06:28 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Mar 10 2013, 01:06 PM)
This wednesday pass through Bagan Datoh, Selangor and saw a solar farm. Probably just setup. Look quite big and maybe produce MW?
*
eh where is this location... i try to find it but could notice it.. bagan datoh is in perak btw...
azsace
post Mar 27 2013, 06:36 PM

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QUOTE(amberglow @ Mar 2 2013, 09:10 PM)
Folks,

Let me pour a cold bucket of water over your enthusiasm for Solar PV for Malaysia Climate.

It is a myth that Malaysia enjoys lots of bright sunshine - we definitely do not!

Why?  Malaysia is surrounded by water and is extremely humid on any given day you will be hard pressed to see a clear blue sky.  We do not get clear blue skies like Germany, USA, and Australia.  The heavy cloud cover filters out a fair amount of light needed for solar panels to run at top efficiency. Most rated Solar Panels are factory tested with simulated lighting which assumes no cloud cover.  In Malaysia the peak sunlight is from 12pm to 2pm; which gives you the highest efficiency assuming it is not a cloudy day or raining - and the bright sunny days we get are perhaps 30 days the most out of 365 days.  The rest of the time it is cloudy with heavy cloud cover.  Believe me, do your own research. Everyday go look up in the sky, and note how bright and how hot it is and how much cloud cover you see.

Thereby you will need to adjust your power generation calculations where you will have only 2 hours of full sunlight (90% efficiency), and 4 hours of 50% efficiency.  You need to factor in the inverter energy loss as well; so at the end of the day your 5kwatt solar pv footprint may only generate less than 1kwatt.

Draw your own conclusions, given the very expensive solar PV installations the return on investment is not way too long.  Have you ever wondered why Malaysia being one of the main solar PV manufacturing countries do not have a domestic market.  Well, the ROI does not make sense.  Solar PV generation is not a viable investment.

If you really do decide to proceed with Solar PV, please remember the panels need to be cleaned frequently to remove soot and dust and bird droppings. Can you imagine yourself that you will climb up the roof every week to clean the panels or willing to pay someone to climb up the roof to clean the panels.

Next. you have to consider if you are considering a grid-tied system or a battery system. 

Finally, FiT is only for a "limited" number of participants. So not every Tom, d*** and Harry is allowed to install Solar PV and sell back to TNB.

Cheers.
*
A lot of misinformation you have here in term of solar power generation efficiency, but honestly i would say malaysia have a good climate and environment for solar power generation...

billyboy
post Mar 28 2013, 08:58 AM

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I have been doing a survey and I think the following is worth commenting;

- it's profitable to home owner because SEDA / TNB buys at RM1+ per kwh from the house owner. In comparison, we buy electricity from TNB at 22sen+ per kwh. A lot of subsidy.

- installers in Malaysia use between 3.0 to 3.4 hours of (effective) sunlight for their calculation. It depends on the lumens / brightness of the sun. There is a website for a solar installation in malacca which publishes monthly data, and it fits the figures I described above.

- overall, it's profitable if;
+ you get good guarantee and maintenance and warranty. Make sure you buy a "Toyota" quality for "perodua" price and not the other way around. That is a skill, and important especially when the big solar manufacturers are going bust. So what if you have the best warranty but the manufacturer go bust.
+ some basic maintenance to maintain output. Regular cleaning etc.
+ cheap debt will boost the return on investment significantly.

Good luck !
billyboy
post Mar 28 2013, 09:14 AM

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I have also looked at degradation (drop in output per annum) in some detail. Most of the empirical testing is under ideal condition; cool and bright eg dessert.

Malaysia is not ideal. Bright but humid. Electrical equipment hates humidity. I have not come across any empirical study of degradation on energy output over say 10 to 20 years in a Malaysia like environment.

My fear is that a lot of the performance guarantee (10% drop within 10 years) may be optimistic. Any one can assist ?

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