I believe that is too much work, always needing to pay a visit to the premises.

I preferred to log-on to the TNB website, and read the softcopy bill inside. If I see an 'E' on hte bill, then I will notify the TNB IN WRITING to go read the bill, and at the sam etime, remind the TNB officially that should any 'extra' charges arise in my bill, I may contest it officially with proper procedures.

Yes, I will monitor through the website too if the tenant pays-up or not, and the outstanding amount regularly. I might even ask TNB to terminate the supply after a certain amount of 'allowable' outstanding has been exceeded. Provide an official letter to the TNB on this, and ask for a stamp against this letter.

Hence, in future, if an allowable outstanding has been exceeded, and the supply is not terminated, then there will be grounds for contesting with TNB. I believe it is better to manage at TNB's end rather than at tenant's end. If we can manage at TNB's end, then all else will fall in place, INCLUDING behaviour of tenant.

Must be you,.. otherwise, I would expect more comments rather than just one word. You mst have pulled this trick earlier.

excellent suggestion indeed...

btw where do you view the softcopy of the bill? at tnb eservices website? where doyou click ? dont seem to be able to find it..

thanks

You have to log in and register first. Go to TNB website's e-services and register using your acc no.

i have registered and when i login, i get to see the account number and amount owing..but where do i go to see a copy of the detailed bill to check
if its an N or E bill?

To check N or E status, scroll down to Reading history. You can see the reading date, the bill nnumber, followed by reading type on your left. In reading type column, you'll see either N or E.

The E bill is normally issued when the TNB officer is unable to tell the actual reading, more often than not due to locked main gate. Even if you notify them in writing to go and read the bill, they will turn around and ask you to provide the actual reading to them yourself, and following that, they will issue a new N bill. This is from personal experience.

One must note that TNB imposes a 50% surcharge for issuing E bills for 3 consecutive months. This is stated clearly in their website here:
http://www.tnb.com.my/residential/billing/...nd-charges.html


This move may seem novel but whether or not TNB wants to terminate electricity supply is solely up to their discretion. TNB rules dictate that if a bill is not paid, a notice commonly known as 'red letter' would be sent, giving the account holder (best not to use the term landlord/owner/tenant) to pay up within 7 days, failing which supply will be disconnected.

Now, in theory, it does sound like a good idea on TNB's part, but the problem lies in the execution. Sometimes the red letter arrives really late, like 3 months after the bill remain unpaid, or after a huge sum is racked up. Sometimes, even after a lapse of 7 days, TNB still fail to disconnect supply, until much later. As the supplier, TNB has a wide discretion on their part, i.e. the exact time when they want to disconnect supply of electricity to a particular premises.

So, Hansel, an account holder cannot tell TNB to put an allowable limit on supply,and they also cannot instruct TNB to put a limit on an allowable outstanding sum (like how mobile operators do with credit limit). As stated above, TNB has the discretion to decide when to disconnect supply, upon sending out the red letter.

So what can a landlord do to protect himself?

My 2 cents' idea:

1. Have a clause in the tenancy agreement whereby the landlord will inspect the monthly TNB bill (this can be done online, as correctly pointed out in earlier posts herein) and if the sum due and owing exceeds RM XXXX, the landlord shall have the discretion to make advance payment on behalf of the tenant, and retain the right to contra same from payment of subsequent rental.

Example: Rental - RM500/mth. Limit of outstanding sum: RM250 [a good figure would be the 1/2 month utility deposit already paid]

Sept 2011 - outstanding TNB payment of RM400 - landlord pays RM150 in advance on behalf of tenant (thus keeping the limit at RM250 as above).
Oct 2011 - tenant pays RM500 as rent, but only RM350 is deemed to have been paid - another RM150 is deemed as contra from payment of TNB excess by landlord on behalf of tenant.

* Better still - no limit - every month must clear all bills failing which landlord will clear on behalf and contra from subsequent rental. Better still?


That would be some kind of check-and-balance system between the landlord and tenant.

With regard to complaints against TNB as to why they still claim from owners despite the tenant themselves who opened an account with TNB cabut without paying, but TNB still refuses to reconnect supply to the premises until the owners themselves clear outstanding payment - my opinion is that TNB ought to be allowed to do so.

TNB's role is to merely supply electricity - TNB ought not be perturbed with private arrangements and dealings between owners of premises and tenants. Ultimately, the owner of the premises must pay the price for the folly of the tenant. TNB ought not be made to bear the burden of chasing after the tenants, despite the fact that the account was opened under the tenant's name. Reason?

To prevent fraud. An owner can come up with a tenancy agreement with a particular tenant (perhaps even with forged/stolen identification) - and after racking up a huge bill, the 'tenant' 'disappears'. TNB then disconnects the supply. Owner cries foul and claims that TNB should reconnect and go after tenant. TNB does so. Owner then comes up with another 'tenancy agreement'. The cycle continues and continues and continues. TNB ends up on the losing side, while owners keep getting their electricity connected, while TNB has to chase after the 'tenants'.

That's my opinion. A very interesting topic indeed.

as i have more than one accounts the one on the main page with access to reading history is for a prop that i have sold already..no idea how to delete amend that..
any idea?

so the rest of my tnb accounts are other "connected accounts" that only show the balance unpaid..cant see "reading history" ..?

moreover for connected accounts its only limited to a max of 5 accounts only..

Thanks

I'm sorry but I have no idea how to go about your case. Normally, I'll create an individual account for each prop. Senang if next time want to dispose. Anybody can give some input to this?

Alternatively, can call up TNB to find out. After all, we are paying for their services.....

I thought the TNB is pretty efficient these days. I've experienced two cut-off incidents whereby I've not paid the outstanding balance for 3 mths. A red-letter was received and they cut off my electricity supply with no way of reconnecting except to pay the balance at their kedai tnb. Maybe this applies to condo only? If this applies to factories or shoplots I'm sure this 30+k bill case won't happen...

Let me try.

I'm afraid I do not know what is "connected accounts". I have one account for each property. To view the complete details of each bill, scroll to the respective Reading Date in the table called Reading History. You will see that each date is actually a link in itself. This link opens up to a pdf file, which is the bill generated by the computer system for that date, and you can see if the reading is an 'N' or an 'E' in the pdf bill.

This is how to access the bill and the complete details for said bill for your property.

Based on what that is written in this thread, I believed if you pay a minimum of, say, even RM80, then everything will be reset and TNB will not disconnect the supply. So, one just needs to keep paying the very, very minimum amount, and TNB will let the charges pile up.

Too bad I own a property, otherwise, if I am renting, this is a very good loophole in TNB.

Hi Hi,.. bro Dario, been sometime, and am always appreciative of seeing your inputs to my postings.

Thank you for the good write-up and the opinions expressed.

I think your way of offsetting the rental against the electricity bills is kinda tedious, and I do it another way, as below.

I have in my Tenancy Agreements - clauses which protect myself, and that if I ask the tenant to clear the electricity bills, they must do so, otherwise, I will write to TNB to disconnect the supply. And I have practised such too, and the tenant paid up before the disconnector came. In fact, the same happened for the water supply too.

Great thoughts on the fact that the owner and the 'tenant' can actually manipulate the situation, never thought of that.

But what do you think of my tactics in the above ?

let me try again..

can one view online all the reading history for multiple tnb accounts - under one owner?

if so can someone walk me through step by step ..ie step one - click ?, step two- click? and so on...

Write to TNB to disconnect? Then to reconnect again are there charges imposed (like reconnection fee of RM10 or so)? How long would it take to reconnect?

Since it worked, I guess it'll be good. Mine is just a theory.

Bro Dario, yes, I'm sure there will be reconnection fee. To me, if the tenant wants to continue his activities at the premises, be it for stay or for business, then they must pay the reconnection fee, and wait for TNB to reconnect.

I would like to shae another piece of information here too : I have heard of cases too where the TNB disconnector goes to the premises, and upon seeing there are people isnide the premises, the disconnector does not disconnect anymore, perhaps due to sympathy, or whatever else.

Okay - due to humanity issues, I am fine with this, but then TNB should be responsible to bear the electricity consumption and not the owner. I believed after all the fighting, then TNB will not be able to get off the hook easily. At the end of the day, we must handle TNB, it's not the tenant.

If we can handle TNB, then either one will fall in-place, and the owner will not suffer. The problem in a country like Malaysia is, always, the weaker party tends to suffer losses.

Hey bro,.. apperciated your theories very much,.. sorry, have not been contributing much to your personal thread at Lawyer's Corner.

I did up some legal research on the topic and found most cases of negligence/breach of contract in favour of TNB. It does appear that they have quite a bit of discretion on their part, to the prejudice of us customers, of course.

But there was a case whereby a customer sued TNB for defamation and won the case. It is a 2006 case which was decided by a very brave and highly-respected judge, the late Justice Gengadharan Nair (sadly, he passed away due to illness in 2007). I managed to find it uploaded at the HBA website too. Do take a read. A fantastic and well-written judgment.

http://hba.org.my/laws/CourtCases/T/tnb.htm

Interesting - defamation via notice to disconnect and act of disconnecting electricity!

Bro, thank you for this. I have read the case, and I think the plaintiff here actually defeated TNB out of a technicality issue, being that TNB estimated the usage and not via a proper meter. The meter was removed earlier.

Actually, if the estimation is viable, the logic and the reasoning should be to pay-up. I looked at the consumption for that month, and I just feel that the estimation is logical.

To me, this is a case best judged in this way : the plaintiff needs to pay the RM1K+ to TNB for electricity consumption, and TNB needs to settle the claims against them (TNB) for defamation. Not that just TNB needs to pay the plaintiff only.

If I am the magistrate, I would spell out my reasons for doing so.

Anyway, I will issue a direct letter to TNB for disconection if necessary. And if TNB does not do so, then, well, I don't think they will win in court.

hello all

i am new here and came across this thread in google. i am in a similar position to the thread starter.

i have some questions:

1) is TNB obligated to cut supply once the bill exceeds the deposit (or any other reason)?

2) if TNB failed to cut the supply (causing the bill amount to be very high), does the landlord have a cause for legal action against TNB for failing to cut (negligence)?

i am trying to find some law or regulation about whether or not TNB must cut

thank u all

jon

This post has been edited by jon1980: Sep 29 2011, 02:08 PM

Jon, read my postings and discussions a few posts earlier. I don't think you can find a more informative posting than what we have thrashed out here. In short :-

1) A consumer can just pay a little bit, and this will reset the disconnection action.

2) Not so easy, TNB always has the upper hand, unless you put in the necessary steps yourself to disconnect the supply earlier.

Come to think of it,... if I am migrating overseas, I think I'll just pay a minimum to TNB every month in order to just maintain the supply till I go off.