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 Working in Australia, Experiences working in Australia.

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SUSrobertchoo
post Jan 20 2014, 10:20 PM

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QUOTE(hihihehe @ Jan 20 2014, 09:18 PM)
Any difference with manager positions in other countries? No.

You have to be good in management and critical thinking before can step up into manager position. Let's say, I am very good in technical stuff only in IT but that only can limit me up to senior position but if I am very good in technical + some management skills then manager position is not a hard thing to go for.
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No difference with other countries except in places like Malaysia you understand the culture and have the appropriate network. So its easy for you to develop/expand networks

Wrong. Technical skills and management skills are 2 very different things. if you have good technical skills you can go far being a specialist. But if you have good technical skills + some management skills you are not going very far in management. You don't believe me go ask around. Like I say management especially senior management is not about you doing the job rather its about you knowing how to motivate your people to do the job while you come up with a broad base strategy.
SUSrobertchoo
post Jan 21 2014, 12:06 AM

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QUOTE(hihihehe @ Jan 20 2014, 10:26 PM)
Do that in Bumiputra company. Nuff said

Specialist? Yes. That you have to do a lot of research to reach that part. You won't go further than normal manager position if you only have management skill and not technical skill so that you can mingle around with your staff. Anyway, one of the manager task is to develop and give more opportunities to the staff so that they can climb up as well. There are many managers that are selfish and only protect their own bowl
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If you're a bumi why not?

Yes you can. Alot of people are hired becuase they can manage people rather than do the work. You have to remember that as a manager, delegation is key. You are not expected to do the job but you are judged based on how others do their job. That is why not everyone can be a manager. That is also why most introvert technical people cannot be promoted to management level. And even if they do they fail miserably.

Take for example IT. A person may be very good at programming. But when you are a manager, esp senior level, you are not expected to write codes. You are expected to manage the programers. make them write codes. motivate them, come up with a broad base strategy. You are expected to convince finance for funding, you are suppose to talk to marketing to help them market the product, you have to convince senior management of the viability of the program you are trying to rollout. You have to get into endless meetings with stakeholders, manage their expectations, stroke their egos, etc. If you can't do that you will fail. Fail to get funding, fail to convice marketing, fail to convince the board to back your new project. Play your politics to get people to support the rollout of your new program. If you cannot manage the different stakeholders, you will also fail regardless of how well you can write codes.

That is why I say when you are good at a technical skill, you can be a specialist but not necessarily a good manager. Those are 2 different skillset alltogether. people assume when you are good at a technical skill you will be promoted to be a manager. Not always. You can be a good technical people but you may not be a good manager who requires more people skills than technical skills

This post has been edited by robertchoo: Jan 21 2014, 12:08 AM
SUSrobertchoo
post Jan 21 2014, 10:09 AM

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QUOTE(hihihehe @ Jan 21 2014, 02:04 AM)
You don't get the point of my first post , do ya? Needless to say more for the second part
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No. You do not get my point. Re-read what I wrote. Its the same in msia as is in australia. If you think the whites are going to treat you as equals you're wrong
SUSrobertchoo
post Jan 21 2014, 01:03 PM

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QUOTE(hihihehe @ Jan 21 2014, 11:32 AM)
Ok, I re-read.
There, you did it!
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And You still don't get what I'm saying?
Regardless of places the culture is the same I.e. its always about connections. Except the situation is different in malaysia because you know the people and the culture.


SUSrobertchoo
post Jan 21 2014, 06:14 PM

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QUOTE(hihihehe @ Jan 21 2014, 03:45 PM)
Are you for real? Do you ever know what you were talking about? Gosh, such a pain when you don't admit what you have wrote. I shall rest my case done here
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Really? You fail to understand but yet calling people a pain for pointing out to you something that is painfully obvious? Good luck in your job search in sg. You'll need a whole lot of luck with that attitude
SUSrobertchoo
post Feb 6 2014, 09:43 AM

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QUOTE(razo2 @ Feb 5 2014, 05:42 PM)
It is not a good time to go there now.

The Australia recession starts and will last for the next 5 years at least. It is a mining bust now.
[cool.gif
So, go else where and gain professional experience is way better than bugger flipping skills in your resume.
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I've been saying that about australia for some time now.
Next to go down are the banks coz of their abnormally large exposures to mining sector. Then it will be a domino effect unless the RBA steps in and do zmtg drastic. Expect further retrenchments

This post has been edited by robertchoo: Feb 6 2014, 09:44 AM
SUSrobertchoo
post Feb 6 2014, 10:03 AM

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QUOTE(Dharma123 @ Feb 5 2014, 06:09 PM)
when economy booming hard to find job, when economy down even worst. I remember when 1996 recession in Oz so bad, that my uncle who lived there for 10 years had to return back to msia with his family because couldn't find a job. Back then unemployment rate was 20%.

what is affecting Oz? Is it because USA Fed is drawing down their bond buying? I know China is slowing down a lot and concentrating more on local demand.
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Its mainly a structural and costing problem leading to uncompetitive pricing, rise of competing mines from cheaper countries, high AUD and waning chinese demand for commodities.
SUSrobertchoo
post Feb 7 2014, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(Nemesis1980 @ Feb 7 2014, 12:54 PM)
Yeap, with no local experience will push you to the casual work. Not all jobs are that way.
Accountant is surplus in Ozzie market. Same goes to IT or engineers.
If you really wanna come here, die also wanna die here then take a bricklaying, electrical or plumber course. Get TAFE or cert 3 or 4 will give u a bigger chance to earn huge here.
There's some wrong perception given back home saying anyone come in Oz will live happily ever after.
Bear in mind, things is cheaper if earning here and got more opportunity provided u need to work hard to get it.
Not saying u migrate here and goyang kaki, money fall off from sky.
For me, i put in the same hardwork from malaysia to here making me stay put and competitive that i can do more and knowledgable than locals.
If you're looking to make big cash money, sorry, this is not the place.
If you're looking for family raising place, orientated and spend more time with family, this is the place you're looking for.
What's wrong for engineers working as waiter? CPA graduate working as working casual?
As long u have household income exceed 80k with stable job, u be able to buy bungalow here.
Who cares u're working waiter or garbage collector. It's still a job.
Dun laugh at garbage collector, their wages is far higher than phamacist @ $40/hr
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So how to payback your parents who work so hard so that you can have a overseas university degree only to work as a waiter in australia? Like that might as well save thier money jump aeroplane and work as waiter is aus. Same thing
SUSrobertchoo
post May 4 2014, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(Value-Price @ May 4 2014, 08:22 AM)
I graduated in 2012 and start working in 2013. Anyone in the engineering industry will tell you that is tough to get a job in 2012. If you google "engineering redundancy", there is a lot of big consulting companies making redundancy in 2012 and 2013 (post-mining boom). Number wise, out of 220 graduates, only 30+ managed to secured a job. Only 5 of them are international students.

In regards to economic prospect, Malaysia is certainly better than Australia (in Civil & Structural Engineering at least). The problem with Australia is people are being paid too much and their productivity & talent does not justified their paycheck. That is precisely why all the car manufacturer shut down their plant in Australia. There is no real economic output from Australia. The only thing that keep Australia afloat now is education and migrants bringing in money to Australia.

Due to high cost, many of the large consulting companies outsourced their work to their overseas office. My charge-out rate per hour is AUD 220. My colleague in Malaysia (graduated from G8 unis as well) have a charge out rate of RM 100 ringgit. This means that he is "6 times more cheaper than me". Hence, engineers in Australia nowadays seldom do the design work. They only do the client facing role and package the work to be sent overseas. Working in Australia hampers my technical development. You only do project management and simple technical calculations for small projects. All the big and interesting stuff was designed overseas. 20 years from now, Australia won't have a strong engineering workforce (*discount migrants from overseas).

As if why Malaysia or Asia collectively is better, I will reserve that for my next post. Running out of time, need to head out for dim sums with friends. TA.
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That is what I have been saying for the longest time but some people don't have the foresight or refuse to believe. And its not just affecting the engineering sector but its affects all sector from mining to banking. Wages in australia are just not equal to productivity levels. Its a matter of time before competitors gobble them up. I just can't see how aus can compete be other than tourism
SUSrobertchoo
post May 4 2014, 07:46 PM

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QUOTE(Geminist @ May 4 2014, 04:31 PM)
It sounds to me you might have joined the wrong consultancy.  I've spent 8 years working in UK and Australia, and done work in Middle East & Europe as well in the construction industry, so I have a fair exposure of what's going on. 

1) I got poached from UK back in 2012 to Australia, and there was hiring all around.  The real cut started to come in on 2013.  But if you have the right skill, there is still position to be found even today.  What I did notice was we hired mostly foreign graduates as they all came with recommendation from contacts we have in universities. 

2) You are definitely not speaking for all the engineers.  A lot of the design work are still being done from Australia, and Australia is even doing more design work for overseas project these days. 

The whole issue with outsourcing sounds great to the bean counters, RM 100 vs 220 AUD, but if you look at the quality of the work, and the amount of re-work that needs to be done, you'll see it's mostly a stupid idea unless the task is repetitive. 
We've had a whole load of issue with this when work came back all wrong, and more time have to be spent to check things. 

3) A 220 AUD charge out rate is overly high for a graduate.  It's no surprise if project managers are reluctant to give it to you.  220 AUD is normally the rate for an experienced senior. 

4) I've done new technical work since I've moved to Australia, so there are new things to learn. 

5) I really do think you're putting yourself at a disadvantaged by going back to Malaysia, but that's your choice smile.gif
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The higher ups especially in banks do not give 2 hoots about that. They usually hire another team of people to check and re-work it if necessaary and it will still be cheaper than paying an aussie to do it.

Further, these managers are judged solely by how much they have saved for their company.
Think about it. You go to a shareholders meeting and say "look we have boosted our Net Profit by 20% by shaving off 50% of staff cost" would sound a hell lot better than "Net profit was flat becuase cost were higher led by staff salaries and wages despite the better quality of work.". You think the shareholders gives 2 hoot about the quality of work as opposed to the bottom line?

This post has been edited by robertchoo: May 4 2014, 07:50 PM
SUSrobertchoo
post May 4 2014, 07:59 PM

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QUOTE(segamatboy @ May 4 2014, 02:43 PM)
Not only in OZ. The same thing is happening  in UK Canada and US.  Big banks made record profits and they are  letting staff go outsourcing work
Maybe people should do what Canadians did. Last year Canada's largest bank,RBC(Royal  Bank Canada) made the headlines. Despite making record profits, the bank laid off local workers and outsource work to India. A boycott campaign started and eventually the bank back down and 'rehired' the laid off workers
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You say it as if its a good thing?

They may be re-hired now due to the record profits but the moment the bank isn't making as much (missed estimates) the outsource program will be reactivated and the staff would be laid off again once more. This time no more excuses. You can picket all you want.

That is why all the major banks have outsourced their operations to lower cost country. You name it HSBC, Citi, Std Chartered, ANZ, etc and their P & L shows huge amounts of savings, up to 50% which far outweights the (lack of) quality of work. At the end of the day dollar and cents will still be king.




SUSrobertchoo
post May 29 2014, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(Fiona Chin @ May 28 2014, 05:00 PM)
Salary wise after tax it doesn't matter much when I compared mine with my exact counterparts in in Aust. Aust you get a lot of welfare if you stay there until you are gone. SG's welfare for the old and poor hmm... SG is a tiny island, Oz is a big island, anything that related to land and space is a lot more expensive in SG. A landed property in SG can cost up to 22m in paper, Melbourne only 400k last time my family bought 1 there there (half the gfa though). 80k COE to own a car in SG. But SG is so much nearer and cheaper to go home. So yea... you decide where to go.
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I strongly believe there will be no more welfare or min welfare in the next couple of years. As it is, the aussie gov is already pushing for major cuts in welfare, subsidies, etc. It'll be a matter of time before the remove the majority of it.
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post May 29 2014, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(LightningFist @ May 29 2014, 11:41 AM)
You're on O&G which is prob almost 50% or 100% on top of an average starting pay!

rclxms.gif
I didn't read the full changes, and of course they are progressing more changes as time goes on

but at the surface the initial announcements didn't seem like big cuts. small dents. of course some people will take a hit. but maybe becoming more competitive is good as long as income equality is still kept in focus
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Of course la. How can cut everything at one go. Will cause a riot. They will slowly slowly cut, until min welfare left after a few years. All those old age, unemployment benefits and what not will go eventually
SUSrobertchoo
post May 29 2014, 12:52 PM

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QUOTE(Fiona Chin @ May 29 2014, 12:43 PM)
Employer medical insurance not enough one, still need buy medical card. Anyway both have their pro and cons, can only choose the best based on your situation yourself. smile.gif
I out of date already. My attachment there was 6 years ago. 6 months training cum paid holiday there, wah Aussie really having good life compared to Singkie.
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You can only g
have a decent life in aus.
you can't have a good life.
if you spend and buy in aus the things that you spend and buy in sg, you will be staring at huge debts. For one, Australians don't go overseas for holiday very often. Australians can't afford the 3 or 4 lv bags, gucci, hermes etc. Australians generally don't eat out for lunch.
SUSrobertchoo
post May 29 2014, 03:01 PM

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QUOTE(hihihehe @ May 29 2014, 02:56 PM)
nope, i was working in education sector and also gone through a mass restructure in IT team. superannuation in education sector is 17% though brows.gif
you are so wrong mate. aussie travel very often and they willing to take few months off from work just for travelling  shakehead.gif 
3 or 4 branded bags? been there, done that. no issue. i realised most of the local aussie not really interested into branded bag although they earn quite high
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Not when you compared to SG
SUSrobertchoo
post May 29 2014, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(hihihehe @ May 29 2014, 03:08 PM)
but why compare with branded bags? kinda pointless isn't it?
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What seems pointless to you may not be pointless to others. Vice versa
SUSrobertchoo
post May 29 2014, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(KVReninem @ May 29 2014, 03:51 PM)
of cos, its not about the material you owned. Unlike Asean, sigh..little bit branded already make a big blow news etc. Its rather wat you own not wat you wear. Like you can have an iron ore mine but live like abo, no one knows.. until you turn up in the news and there you go..your fame. FMG CEO, he was poor once.  icon_idea.gif same goes Linfox supply chain owner. There are tales and etc of success, as long one willing to work hard and on for it, success in for them.
SG is well, everything fancy.. look at their general immaturity when come to branded stuff. they go luls over and over..of what have what dont..like either you wear a good stuff or bad stuff. doh.gif
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Who are you to judge?
They work hard to afford these things. nothing immature about that.
just coz you don't value branded stuff doesn't mean others are wrong or immature coz they do.
SUSrobertchoo
post May 29 2014, 05:25 PM

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QUOTE(KVReninem @ May 29 2014, 05:02 PM)
Judge?, its real observation of how once perceive things in life. Its so much a joke trend that even the people who wear well said.

If your hard work is measure by the handbags, fancy branded you got, there is many missing thing in life you did look at.  smile.gif
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Oh, so now you're preaching about how others should perceive life?
So, You're no different from the muslim extremist who preaches to others to embrace islam and its way, one of the main reason why people want to migrate to aus in the first place?

if you think suicide bombings and killing infidels is a measure of things in life, I truly feel sorry for you. Hope you burn in hell.
Otherwise don't judge. Just because you don't see acquisition of branded stuff as something meaningful does not mean you can go around telling people they are a joke.

This post has been edited by robertchoo: May 29 2014, 05:25 PM
SUSrobertchoo
post May 29 2014, 09:27 PM

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QUOTE(KVReninem @ May 29 2014, 05:40 PM)
rclxms.gif sigh so OT.anyway, I wont want to waste time argue here with you. If you are happy buying those goods without saying, aiya i have to save for LV, my prada...then go with it biggrin.gif. At the end, dont say you are not enough because of such expensive buy, rather lived with it.

Why? its simple. If you find you got better life being here with the fresh air, away from the "herding mentality in the society" then why not?

everyone got their own way to succeed in life. its just outcry of certain people after they did it and not succeed.

On the other matter is either you are appreciated in your country? If you are consider "pendatang" by one faction of your country, why you want to waste time?

for sure migrate right? whistling.gif
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If i were as judgemental as you, I would ask you to go and live in African jungle in somewhere like Tanzania instead, where you truly are away from the "herding mentality in society" and one with the "herding jungle animals in the African jungle instead". Then you truly suceeded in life?
But i am going to refrain.

SUSrobertchoo
post May 29 2014, 09:49 PM

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QUOTE(KVReninem @ May 29 2014, 09:45 PM)
to you, if i`m to say just a open opinion, you consider i am judging. Might as well just keep it to myself. Isnt it better? rolleyes.gif

What do you benefit being in "Malaysia"? for long haul?
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Malaysia? Why do you need to be in Malaysia? There are so many other options around like Singapore, HK, China, UK, USA

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