Yo bro Robhinhood (not RobHimHood? ), same "age class" here hehe.

Just wondering, instead of a "SWITCH" or "NOTHING" approach, why not checkout what's your Asset Allocation held and just re-balance?

Personally:
a. What if things dont drop but continue running up? Missed the boat AND when/how to buy back in?

b. What if things drop - will it drop to NEGATIVE 80%+ like 1997-1998
OR NEGATIVE 40%+/- 'ala end 2008/early 2009
OR negative 10%+ 'ala March/Apri 2008?
What drop can i stomach AND how much in EPF $ in bond funds i have to buy lelong EPF approved Equity Funds to more than make up the drop when it bounces back?

c. Whether my $ in EPF VS non-EPF is a HUGE chunk % of my total investments held?
I do not want any entity holding a ridiculous chunk of % of my investment assets - "trust no one"

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Mar 21 2012, 12:14 PM

Even before calculations... er.. 3% interest compounded MONTHLY?!! Can throw away calculator and Excel liao with that kind of returns - btw, it's definitely much more than $3,771 if 3% compounded MONTHLY.

Can U share info on this great investment with us pls?

Pocket calculator? that 1 sheet thinggy ar? aiya..

Excel calculations attached - see the formula at the top.
$3,438.65 only wor, couldn't get $3,771. Can't be rounding errors so high?


watashiwa baka-sama.
Mis-used PV, should be FV. With FV (future value), we do get $3,771+
Thanks to LunchTime for pointing out my dyslexia


This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Mar 26 2012, 06:19 PM

Hm.. how passive is passive Vs how active is active?
Optimize gains?

er.. just my simpleton view ar - can really optimize gains if one is without crystal balls meh?
Thus how passive or how active i think, depends on our personal pre-defined planned triggers (entry/exits) only BUT the market may always VETO / disagree with our logic
eg. optimize as in buy at the lowest, sell at the highest?
AND optimize for "how low is low for how long" buy first or wait to buy + "how high is high for how long" thus sell now buy back later or sell later?

My guess is U have already several trigger points + an Asset Allocation kinda thing going right?
Yeah, sort of "actively managed" but NOT to the point of optimized cow cow returns right
AND NOT "passive" as buy buta lump sum and zzzz hold blindly

eg. super-active = watching the NAV daily + indices of world markets + doing buy/switch weekly/daily based on economic news, market indices, NAV, etc sentiments/movements.

BTW, my semi-active (only "active" when entered, no exit rules) "old buy lump sum and zzz hold blindly" PruSmallCaps oops.. EastSpring Investments SmallCaps has been floating around 10%pa +/- ever since the "fall" from 25%pa +/- of end 2007.
Note - these 3 transactions are my "test / control case" VS "actively" (entries done quarterly AND exit rules checked monthly) managed funds. Any more "active" and my heart (and investments) cant take the excitement

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Mar 26 2012, 12:39 PM

Huh?
PBOND's NAV shows going up wor


So does PSBF

bhwhaha - yeah, maths aint too great + need lots of coffee.
hm.. funny.. something's not too right with the way i used that Excel.


Ah.. sorry PV (the first result when i searched for "annuity" - cant remember the functions mar) used,
instead of FV (future value).
Thanks LunchTime for pointing out my dyslexia


This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Mar 26 2012, 06:21 PM

i gotta buy me new fingers, eyes and brain... FV shd be used, not PV

Momma says if it isn't a bit harder than usual, that means U ain't challenging yourself and growing.
If it seems insurmountable as a whole, understand the big pix/concept then "break it up" into bite size and attack/solve/understand each before moving on to the next.
Then again, what does momma know

I screenshot them from PM's own FP Advisor's "Prices" function in the "Performance" page. I think U can get similar data on PM's website.

As for PIttikal (and any other equity funds), in my humble opinion, invest for the "total returns" (ie. NAV + "dividends").
Pls note U are right - dividends distributed from mutual funds does knock down the NAV at equal amount and if taxed, lagi worse than not distributing at all.
Thus, imho, bottom line - focus on total+consistency of returns, fluctuations and of course, where the investment fits in your plan/Asset Allocation.

---

Added on March 29, 2012, 8:31 amFor some UTC, it's all about the sales, some others, it's about the growth of their investors first, thus can get long term 0.2%pa returns on customers' "value of loaded units held".

However, it takes 2 hands to clap - sometimes, the customers just couldn't be bothered with systematic & rule/logic based investing, and wants "as much as possible and as fast as possible".
Personally, I've the unfortunate experience in having such customers, where even when i followed-up with them for executions and calculations for their value+dollar averaging entries/exits, they just didn't bother to follow the agreed plan or even tweak the plan, BUT when kaka hits the fan, they scream bloody murder.

---

Added on March 29, 2012, 8:42 amHeheh - i share the same point of view as U bro.
just "chatted" with one of my customers and fellow investor yesterday on this - snippet below (no personal data other than my own)

Well, as usual, no one can tell whether it'll markets will continue running up or plunge nastily.
World economy may not be THAT bad if U take into account that:
a. every now and then, countries do default (think Argentina, Zimbabwe, etc.) - there are 196 countries in the world .
b. Our big boys (US, EU, JP) are printing $ like no tomorrow (in the billions). Guess what is going to happen to "cash" and inflation?
c. Due to (b.), IMHO, the most logical choice would be to hold Assets that generates value (cash) and/or if one is rich enough to think of "retaining wealth" (ie. ppl that are wealthy already), perhaps a chunk of gold (eg. 5% to 10%).

See - still investing and asset allocation is do-able

Another POV if i may share:
Imagine an Asset Allocation of (+/- lah, not exact):
33% Fixed Income (cash, savings, EPF, bonds, bond funds, flexi mortgage prepayments)
33% Biz Equities (stocks exREITs, equity funds, etc)
33% Real Estate Equities (REITs, rental / flipping properties)

Then if stocks & equity funds drop 50%, losses would be 33%*50%=16.5%
However, your Fixed Income would usually spike (ie. people then flee to FD & bonds - remember 1998 & 2008?), making it "hot" and U'd get about 8%pa to 10%pa returns/growth.
Then U take that 10% or more and re-allocate into Biz Equities - buying cheap/lelong prices (remember end 2008/early qtr 2009?) and sit tight
Heck - even the RE Equities will be getting dividends and rental, may also re-allocate from there.
The above is just using simple Asset Allocation, nothing funky and not even in addition to employing long term "value averaging" methods which we are doing.

Thus, bottom line, i'd suggest:
1. Calculating (i'll do this with your input on data)
a. how much expected every qtr for the next 3 to 5 years can be taken out from EPF
b. calculating the median of 1a.
c. Calculating yr current Asset Allocation held and work out what U plan to hold (comfort level)

2. Then decide whether to
a. Asset re-allocation to re-balance your held Asset Allocation, if needed
b. build new TwinVest programs around 1b.
c. OR 2b + 50% for value/trend opportunities

FYI - just to share, i am doing (U may get some ideas and modify to your requirements/expectations):
a. Sum of all Fixed Income assets LESS 10 months' average expenses for emergency buffer
10 months coz if i need 1 month's, it's just 10% - a big enough sum to hurt if i dont have it BUT small enough not to destroy my emergency buffer

b. Then Asset Allocation planned is:
(100% -5% for trading/crazy testing) / 3 =31.66% Fixed Income
(100% -5% for trading/crazy testing) / 3 =31.66% Biz Equities
(100% -5% for trading/crazy testing) / 3 =31.66% Real Estate Equities
5% for Gold / Futures / Crazy ideas

I FORCE re-balance only when the % is -30%+/- or +40%+/-
eg. when any of them drops below 22%+ or spikes above 44%+
Other than that, i continue plonking in every quarter into mutual funds via value+dollar cost averaging.
Reason / Logic:
We can hold cash/bonds and wait for opportunities (due to greed/fear) to buy at lelong prices.
HOWEVER, what if it only happens 5 years down the road? what if it happens only 10 years down the road?
Would i be smacking myself on the head for those lost years?
Would it be better to have a continuous no fear/no greed program running + some bullets to take the opportunities if/when it presents itself?

I think the above is very familiar to U by now as i've been sharing that approach with a U and a lot of people consistently. I dont share what i personally dont do or believe in mar

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Mar 29 2012, 08:43 AM

To all Public Mutual agents,

Just to check / clarify.

For withdrawals from EPF for Mutual Fund investments, I was just told by Public Mutual that EPF does NOT accept digital printout of ICs which were scanned into my PC and printed out - ie. "must be photostated".

True / False?
Note: I've just written to EPF as this withdrawal was for my sis & I.

IF True, this is truly MALAYSIA BOLEH
Are we supposed to go back to the stone age?
ie. Abandon digital and info age, go back to photocopying and er.. these days not that easy to find photocopy shops around, especially during off work hours.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Mar 29 2012, 06:56 PM

Supposedly ada machine that can trace wor.
TECHNICALLY this is possible
....BUT on a higher end (think $40K "photostating" machine, now known as Multi-Function Copiers) machine, it is essentiall scanning and printing, thus force us to use old shitty copiers?

Yup yup... Or does anyone suspect... EPF boh lui (not enough $ for ppl like us to withdraw for investments continuously)?

er.. generally, there are (in ascending order of risk and returns) only:
1. Money Market mutual funds
2. Bond funds
3. Mixed / Balanced funds (Bond + Equity) though i'd suggest U mix your own heheh for cost effectiveness, if U can
4. Equity Funds (equity can be properties/REITs, normal stocks, commodities, etc.)

Thus, er.. in my opinion, there's "no higher yield returns" than Equity fund UNLESS there's a huge crash ('ala 1997/1998 + 2008), then generally the Money Market and/or Bond Funds will yield the highest (until Equities recover)

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Apr 2 2012, 09:34 PM

Bro Izzudrecoba,
Just be aware that PISEF started only in approximately mid / late 2008 (ie. prices becoming lelong level) VS PIEF which started way back, thus PISEF's mid/late 2008 to now SHARPE ratio MAY not really be comparable directly to PIEF.
Note the word MAY heheh.
We can always try to compare using any ratios mar right? No 100% right/wrong per se

Just thinking out loud..

Sometimes, it's just so... not smart when big brother (Gov, Companies, Agencies, etc.) puts in writing things which are, by common sense, should or should not be done.

One of which is PM's & FIMM's online/opinion sharing thinggies. Heck, even in my employer / Company, they are now thinking of stating what can be worn, cant be worn, hair coloring type ok/noK, etc.

I mean like.. what the fish?!!
U mean if it's stated in some donkey rules that I must not think, then i don't? Or thou shall not help when U see fellow humans going to do not-too-smart things, then i dont?
OR
reversal. IF it doesnt state i cant piss on the office carpet, then i can?
Jezzz... God/Allah/Nature gave us a brain to CHOOSE right from wrong.. or to absorb or reject others' thoughts/advice/opinions..

Sorry mods - just kinda grumpy with dumb a** stuff. Pls kill this post if irrelevant to the current donkey PM's & FIMM's online can/cannot thinggie

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Apr 7 2012, 03:15 PM

Aiyo bro, not EVERYONE is out to get U or others lar.
Some or most from what i've seen here, are on the level - good & bad opinions shared.

U stated "discussion online is fine but do you think what's being posted here in this thread is a discussion or advising or promoting or recruiting " mar.
In simple English, what do U think that communicates to us readers?
If i'm mistaken that U are saying most of the postings in this thread are promoting and recruiting, instead of discussion, my apologies for misconstruing your thoughts/post

Your question is akin to "what are the favorite foods for eating healthily?" without knowing your weight, age, exercise habits, etc.

IT DEPENDS.. + the variables are mostly personal + i don't think any forumer here has mental telepathy (except maybe for Cubicc ) and even if we do, i don't think we'd want to know what's in a mind that asks such question

Share more of your personal asset allocation details/planned/held/etc. lar, then fellow forumers can bounce some ideas with U.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Apr 11 2012, 08:16 AM

Cool, more data/info to bounce:
1. Ok.. thus only looking at Syariah-compliant businesses / funds.
That cuts down on a lot of "noise"

2. Asset Allocation
a. er.. total invest-able assets = $10K
eg. U are now starting into your investing and have amassed $10K for starting up.
OR
b. additional invest-able assets = $10K, and U've already some balanced or hit your planned asset allocation already?
eg. U have a bonus of $10K now to invest AND U are already holding your planned % in Fixed Income, Biz Equities, Real Estate Equities and Alternatives (gold, commodities, wines, etc.)

+Assuming (a.) above,
OPTION 1
IF i was in your shoes (please do your own due diligence ok? I'm assuming me being in your situation here ):

+I'd just do a simple 1/3 allocation to each Fixed Income, Biz Equities & Real Estate Equities.
Thus, that's about $3.3K each, into Fixed Income, Biz Equities & RE Equites.

+2nd assumption: U have EPF (which personally i think as Fixed Income equivalent) and it makes up a huge portion of your net asset (eg. more than say $20K compared to your "fresh investable" $10K)
Thus, the $3.3K for Fixed Income, i'd re-allocate to Biz Equities & RE Equities, making it 50% or $5K each

+For Biz Equities $5K, i'd check out all the Public Islamic ***** (equity funds)




Hm.. 3 years' data ending 2008 (bad ending so to speak due to high 2006 to low 2008 NAV):
PIEF gave about 4.9618% CAGR

Hm.. 3 years' data ending 2011 (good ending so to speak due to low 2009 to high 2011 NAV):
PIEF gave about 17.8632% CAGR
PIDF gave about 20.2080% CAGR
PIOF gave about 20.0808% CAGR
PISSF gave about 24.1193% CAGR

The $5K, i'd split it to 2 funds - PIDF (dividend strategy) and PISSF (sector strategy)
Unfortunately, PISSF is closed for new/additional investments i think. Thus, i'd do PIOF instead as my "aggressive" replacement to PISSF.

After selecting these 2 funds, i'd allocate $1,250 and do value + dollar cost averaging into each now and another in 6 months' time, ASSUMING i'll be able to generate another $10K to invest next year. I'll do this "program" for at least 5 years


+For the RE Equities $5K, i'd learn about REITs and REITs in Malaysia,
then checkout REITs Al-Hadharah/BSDREIT and Al-AQAR in detail and select how much to put into each OR one.
Again, me being me, i'd put $2.5K in BSDREIT (a plantation REIT) and $2.5K in Al-AQAR (a hospital REIT) and sit on them for the dividends.
I understand U are asking about mutual funds but thus far, i don't think PM has Syariah compliant REIT funds, they've PFEPRF though. Thus, keeping to the ambit of Syariah compliance, i'd go direct to REITs in Malaysia. Please do your own due diligence - some simple info to get U started http://mreit.reitdata.com/


OPTION 2
Forget all the above, just buy into an Islamic Balance Fund


Whew.. just remember, it's my personal view based on the above ambit only ar, please do your own due diligence - read the Prospectus, learn, analyze and understand the Funds AND entry/exit methodologies BEFORE executing anything. DON'T RUSH INTO INVESTMENTS UNLESS U FEEL NOTHING WHEN WATCHING YOUR INVESTMENT VALUE FALL 80%+ (1998) OR 40%+ (2008) - it's a marathon bro, not a sprint

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Apr 11 2012, 10:41 PM