hi sifoo's out there..
i just upgraded my campro bolt-on turbo setup to bigger turbine TD05h - 18G (Jasma -ayam brand), short-runner custom intake manifold, and put in also haltech sprint 500 to my setup. before this im running on TD04hl with e-manage blue.. boosting at 0.4 bar with no problem. full boost at 3.5k rpm..

dyno tuned was done at GT auto sunway, they have done the compression check of the intercooler piping and so on. no leaking at all.. but still the boost kick in very late.

here's my current setup

1) 1.5mm metal gasket sandwiched with 2 oem gasket
2) scatter cam for campro (26266in, 266ex)
3) custom short runner intake manifold
4) jasma td05h 18g
5) turbosmart ultragate 38 wastegate

few question??
1) is the camshaft timing have any effect on the turbine spool time..?
2) short runner intake is good at high rpm.. not at lower rpm rite..?


the problem is, my boost kick in very late at 5.5k rpm and almost full boost at 7k rpm..
does hi-cam give additional lag to the spool time..?

please refer my dyno chart below.
hope i can get some idea from you guys here.

thanks..



This post has been edited by benjoe: Jul 8 2011, 11:54 PM

the short runners arent good. Why are they short? If it's long runners, at least it gives some time for the exhaust gases to pick up velocity / speed to spool the turbine up faster.

TD05 on a campro... I'm pretty sure the engine is not gonna last long.

Camshafts do affect spool-up time.. which is out of my knowledge to explain to you on how it does, sorry.

And the uberly low compression is also causing the late spool-up. Were you on the td04 with the oem gasket only, or also with this 3-gasket setup?

yeap.. during the td04 im only use the oem gasket..

indeed the high oem compression added some juice to the fast spool-up.

try change to td04

either the 18g is not matching your engine, or the compression is basically too low. what boost on the 18g?

18g, this is the problem, change to 16g and it'll spool faster but not by much (1-1.5k rpm difference i think). 18g is meant for 2.0 engines, even 1.8 will suffer huge lags. and u r boosting 0.4 bars, why? 18g needs high boost in order to function properly, it's hp orientated not response.

trust me, get the 16g and boost at least 0.6 bars, u already have lowered compression and a highly tunable ECU, a higher boost won't blow your engine. and 0.6 bars isn't really considered high boost, it's just.......standard

and whoever says short runners aren't good for turbo they don't know what they r talking about, i'll tell u, for response, THE SHORTER THE BETTER. Same like the intercooler piping, u don't want cuti-cuti malaysia piping that goes all around the world, it's a waste of metal, if i have a choice, i'll place my intercooler on top of my engine (like subaru did, they can because they use flat engine).....

and your camshaft is purely for high rpm performance, low to mid rpm will suffer like hell, if u want response change to other camshaft, it's no use if your boost kick in at so high rpm but your power band is so narrow

This post has been edited by stormlcc: Jul 9 2011, 02:00 PM

agree with you, +1 . But I dont understand the bold part bro

turbo is not like NA engine, it doesn't need "air pressure" or "back pressure" or whatever pressure to perform because the entire system is like a giant air sucking machine, so u need to prevent anything to "block" or "slow" air from going into the combustion chamber and going out from it to the exhaust, therefore, the shorter the better, no matter it is air intake or output

Then why would people go through the hassle of making long runners? I personally thought it was all about giving the exhaust gasses time to pick up speed and velocity before it enters and turns the turbine wheel, hence some people actually relocating the turbine as far away as possible from the engine head with as long runners as possible, naming it 'remote turbo'.

Short huge intake manifolds will give you good top and and feed the engine with all the air it needs, but kill just a little bit of bottom end.

As for exhaust, I may be wrong. You reckon?

---

Added on July 10, 2011, 2:52 pmIndeed it's a blower concept where equal length runners are not as important in an FI car as having equal length runners in an N/A engine.





This post has been edited by ThunderGod_Cid: Jul 10 2011, 02:52 PM

well long runners r used mostly for NA cars. there r tons of debate going on whether to use short or long runners for "everyday" turbo engines and most of them agrees on one thing, the shorter, the better for turbo, because there's less restriction, and less restriction makes good throttle response. And most of them agrees that whether it's short or long runner, it won't effect the spool time of the turbo by much, because the turbo's spool time is largely effected by how MUCH (volume) exhaust gas is available and the in/ex dimensions and materials used for/of the turbo itself. This debate has been going on for centuries and until now there is NO CONCLUSION AT ALL, some say orange but some say apples and these guys whether their apple or oranges, they r all professionals working with great tuning companies.

Because turbo engines are totally unlike NA engines (turbo setup is much more complicated), no one actually bothers to prove which one is better because there r too many variables, like the diameter of the piping, the setup of the engine, the design of the bending of the piping and so on, all can effect the end result. and for tuning companies, they always take the same engine to test their products (short vs long intake runners for example) but they NEVER announce / publish their findings (due to p&c), they only SELL whichever product they find "more beneficial", which for us, doesn't actually know all the facts like do the long runners actually make turbo spool faster? but they sell the short runners for "maximum performance"....! I do know this as a fact, VW, they make some excellent turbo engines, and their intake manifold are designed to have both the benefit of both long and short runners, for low end torque AND high end power at the same time, and tuning companies also copied the original design but made it SHORTER for.........."maximum performance" whatever this means....

All I know is from my experience, I CAN'T say u r wrong though because who knows (literally)? All we have are some apples and oranges from those experts, and all that we can do is trial and error

and where is TS anyway? from what i know, the main culprit is the 18g turbo which is TOO BIG for your engine, change that to a smaller version and it's all good

This post has been edited by stormlcc: Jul 10 2011, 07:07 PM

lol. time for me to do more reading. And crap, my ex manifold is in the midst of being fabricated as I type this =.=!

indeed the diameter of the runners will affect the spool-up period. small runners the air travels fast, spool up fast... but once you reach your top end, it suffocates. As for big runners, spool up is slow, or boost comes in alter (whichever), but the top end is definitely there

looks like this thread is a 2 person discussion since TS gone with the wind. what car and engine r u using anyway?

just a puny 4efte engine

4efte is good enough, putting TD04 in it? in what chassis? i once thought i'll put this engine in my toyota LE, but at last decided to just go with the blacktop conversion since the halfcut price is the same (auto gb)

me 4g93 i upgrade Evo td05 turbo . already feel Boost lag
reason i upgrade is becoz i want play high boost

since u running 0.4 Very extreme low boost , LARGE Turbo is NOT ur options dude

uu should choose Small size turbo for ur engine

and morever , campro only 1.6 lol...... Seriously not suitable to plonk td05

Put back td04 and retune , thats the best choice .

scared of lag as well . Did a hybrid ct9/1. Charade g200 . The LE would be much better off with a black top

the LE is for everyday use for my wife, so both engines also a good choice, 1.3 4efte don't have much problem using RON95, blacktop can't use pure RON95, need to mix half RON97. but the FC really good on blacktop, sometimes can travel 9 days in 1 full tank, which is only RM60 (mix 50-50)

your hybrid turbo is from what turbo? still making the manifold?

wah.. long reply edi..
btw.. boosted at 1bar.. maybe the 18g is the culprit.. the turbo is too big for the engine i think.. maybe i shud put back the TD04hl..

can i do something for the 16g..? or shud buy a new one..?

thanks for all the comment..

This post has been edited by benjoe: Jul 12 2011, 12:14 PM