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 TD05h - 18g boost kick in late at 5k rpm, help me on my campro bolt-on turbo setup

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ThunderGod_Cid
post Jul 9 2011, 12:30 AM

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the short runners arent good. Why are they short? If it's long runners, at least it gives some time for the exhaust gases to pick up velocity / speed to spool the turbine up faster.

TD05 on a campro... I'm pretty sure the engine is not gonna last long.

Camshafts do affect spool-up time.. which is out of my knowledge to explain to you on how it does, sorry.

And the uberly low compression is also causing the late spool-up. Were you on the td04 with the oem gasket only, or also with this 3-gasket setup?


ThunderGod_Cid
post Jul 9 2011, 01:05 AM

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indeed the high oem compression added some juice to the fast spool-up.


ThunderGod_Cid
post Jul 9 2011, 11:46 AM

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either the 18g is not matching your engine, or the compression is basically too low. what boost on the 18g?
ThunderGod_Cid
post Jul 10 2011, 03:03 AM

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QUOTE(stormlcc @ Jul 9 2011, 01:43 PM)
18g, this is the problem, change to 16g and it'll spool faster but not by much (1-1.5k rpm difference i think).  18g is meant for 2.0 engines, even 1.8 will suffer huge lags.  and u r boosting 0.4 bars, why? 18g needs high boost in order to function properly, it's hp orientated not response.

trust me, get the 16g and boost at least 0.6 bars, u already have lowered compression and a highly tunable ECU, a higher boost won't blow your engine.  and 0.6 bars isn't really considered high boost, it's just.......standard

and whoever says short runners aren't good for turbo they don't know what they r talking about, i'll tell u, for response, THE SHORTER THE BETTER. Same like the intercooler piping, u don't want cuti-cuti malaysia piping that goes all around the world, it's a waste of metal, if i have a choice, i'll place my intercooler on top of my engine (like subaru did, they can because they use flat engine).....

and your camshaft is purely for high rpm performance, low to mid rpm will suffer like hell, if u want response change to other camshaft, it's no use if your boost kick in at so high rpm but your power band is so narrow
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agree with you, +1 smile.gif. But I dont understand the bold part bro
ThunderGod_Cid
post Jul 10 2011, 02:51 PM

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QUOTE(stormlcc @ Jul 10 2011, 01:41 PM)
turbo is not like NA engine, it doesn't need "air pressure" or "back pressure" or whatever pressure to perform because the entire system is like a giant air sucking machine, so u need to prevent anything to "block" or "slow" air from going into the combustion chamber and going out from it to the exhaust, therefore, the shorter the better, no matter it is air intake or output
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Then why would people go through the hassle of making long runners? I personally thought it was all about giving the exhaust gasses time to pick up speed and velocity before it enters and turns the turbine wheel, hence some people actually relocating the turbine as far away as possible from the engine head with as long runners as possible, naming it 'remote turbo'.

Short huge intake manifolds will give you good top and and feed the engine with all the air it needs, but kill just a little bit of bottom end.

As for exhaust, I may be wrong. You reckon?


Added on July 10, 2011, 2:52 pmIndeed it's a blower concept where equal length runners are not as important in an FI car as having equal length runners in an N/A engine.





This post has been edited by ThunderGod_Cid: Jul 10 2011, 02:52 PM
ThunderGod_Cid
post Jul 11 2011, 01:52 AM

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lol. time for me to do more reading. And crap, my ex manifold is in the midst of being fabricated as I type this =.=!

indeed the diameter of the runners will affect the spool-up period. small runners the air travels fast, spool up fast... but once you reach your top end, it suffocates. As for big runners, spool up is slow, or boost comes in alter (whichever), but the top end is definitely there
ThunderGod_Cid
post Jul 11 2011, 10:56 AM

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just a puny 4efte engine wink.gif
ThunderGod_Cid
post Jul 12 2011, 01:42 AM

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QUOTE(stormlcc @ Jul 11 2011, 04:24 PM)
4efte is good enough, putting TD04 in it?  in what chassis?  i once thought i'll put this engine in my toyota LE, but at last decided to just go with the blacktop conversion since the halfcut price is the same (auto gb)
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scared of lag as well wink.gif. Did a hybrid ct9/1. Charade g200 smile.gif. The LE would be much better off with a black top
ThunderGod_Cid
post Jul 12 2011, 12:23 PM

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QUOTE(stormlcc @ Jul 12 2011, 11:50 AM)
the LE is for everyday use for my wife, so both engines also a good choice, 1.3 4efte don't have much problem using RON95, blacktop can't use pure RON95, need to mix half RON97.  but the FC really good on blacktop, sometimes can travel 9 days in 1 full tank, which is only RM60 (mix 50-50)

your hybrid turbo is from what turbo?  still making the manifold?
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compressor = ct12b from 1kz land cruiser
turbine housing - ct9 stock, rebored to suit the comp wheel and housing of the 12b

manifold still in the make.

As for your blacktop, can't detune it with unichip/adaptronic?


QUOTE(benjoe @ Jul 12 2011, 12:13 PM)
wah.. long reply edi.. biggrin.gif
btw.. boosted at 1bar.. maybe the 18g is the culprit.. the turbo is too big for the engine i think.. maybe i shud put back the TD04hl..

can i do something for the 16g..? or shud buy a new one..?

thanks for all the comment..
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Buy a smaller ball bearing charger wink.gif
ThunderGod_Cid
post Jul 12 2011, 05:12 PM

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QUOTE(benjoe @ Jul 12 2011, 04:48 PM)
TD04hl
boost: 0.4bar
HP: 170hp
Torque: 220nm
boost full: 3.5k rpm

TD05h
boost: 0.97bar
HP: 230hp
Torque: 226nm
boost full @ rev cut..

both dyno done at GT Auto..
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thumbup.gif i like


Added on July 12, 2011, 5:13 pm
QUOTE(stormlcc @ Jul 12 2011, 04:57 PM)
u already got hi-cams, cam gears, good ECU, what about your exhaust side?  u ask gt-auto better, they r much more qualified than me
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you prolly want to have bigger sized IC and exhaust pipes, and also oversized throttle body to compensate the amount of air going in and out of the engine since you already have cams


Added on July 12, 2011, 5:15 pm
QUOTE(stormlcc @ Jul 12 2011, 03:24 PM)
of course can, but don't have time to go KL, install the ECU and dyno tune (which will take a whole day), and ipoh don't have tuning shops..... sweat.gif

anyway, beside unichip and adaptronic, do u know any other piggyback good for tuning to use RON95?
thinking thinking think think think you cant use emanage. So... another alternative other than adaptronic and unichip would be AEM's fuel/ignition controller. not sure if its compatible or not though. I heard it's got more tuning points than emanage's 16x16

This post has been edited by ThunderGod_Cid: Jul 12 2011, 05:15 PM
ThunderGod_Cid
post Jul 12 2011, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(stormlcc @ Jul 12 2011, 05:19 PM)
emanage incompatible with blacktop?  how bout 1jz-gte....? i asked because my next project involving this

hey thundergod, i saw you r selling drift gauges, the boost meter only has psi values? no bar values? looks damn cool!
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these piggybacks i'd suggest you ask Alvin that used to work at Toms. A friend of mind

PM u number shortly
ThunderGod_Cid
post Jul 14 2011, 02:53 AM

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szeonn is right in a way.

Well, get too big of a turbo and do a low boost, it's not gonna be as efficient as using a moderate sized turbo with slightly higher boost than the big one.

The turbo's efficiency has to match the engine's CFM and displacement. With this being the key to your setup, your turbo will be able to :

-spool up to desired boost faster
-spool up at earlier rpm
-pulls the car harder
-holds torque longer
-give you your target horsies

Using a huge-ass turbo with low bosot like <1bar, you're underusing it's efficiency



 

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