What makes you think the shape of a universe is a ping pong ball ?

Would be great if you show me source

I've got another question then , since blackhole absorbs light would that make it the ultimate of ultimate ?

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Added on June 29, 2011, 8:24 amYes really good one there , but I'm still VERY curious whats beyond that universe ? I'm sure at some point there must be a boundary . IF there is once again , what is beyond the boundary of that boundary ? and it goes on

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Added on June 29, 2011, 8:33 amOhh , but I guess I just hate the effect on infinity . So then if infinity at least the universe has to start from one point .

This post has been edited by x-199Tx: Jun 29 2011, 08:33 AM

"If you see the universe from a computer point of view"- yes...may also can be describe/ compare with computer hardware (capacity) & software (time & space, shortcut..).

& yes...all the theory r based on our imaginary....

Theory= Logic + imaginary.

Regard the universal..maybe can divide by : space, dimesion, time, what inside & what outside??

here is my little view:

1) dimension: the univel maybe no boundary....it may like sphare...where u start...& where u end...end= start. recycle.

2) space & timeline: little bit to talk...may rise to another question..
many years ago i saw doremon comic- one of the part very interesting & curios:

story start with nobita enter his room upstair, doremon not there, then nobita saw a magic gun in his table. His took the gun & go out to show to giant & sisuka.

" when his downstair, nobita heard a noise of (own voice coming from his upstair room - the table drawer of his room got time machine) crying, seeking doremon"....

but nobita ignore the noise......

later & after his bing bang Giant with the gun, giant become stone & broke into a pieces after fall. Sisuka crying...nobita very scary & run back get help from doremon....

after seeking doremon...but doremon not there...so, nobita only can use the time machine in his drawer to travel back the time to stop "the previous" nobita who baru masuk billik.

Final picture show that: crying Nobita (who travel back with time machine) in the upstair room seeking for doremon...& nobita who took the gun already in downstair.

Here my question: When is the first time incident happen (means, nobita after took his gun & downstair..his never heard his own noise or crying). the first boundary/ the person who start this scenario?

the story start with involve nobita in recycle space, timeline & dimension. this scenario keep repeat..repeat & repeat.......how many time this scenario happen?? 1 time 1milion time or infinity time...??

r nobita stuck in the time & space/ dimension...forever...like us?? who can pull nobita out of the dimension??.

How ( how this scenario happe), when (what the first time), where (the first location doremon drop the gun..where is doremon...),who can help (nobita itself or doremon), What ( happen if : keep repeat/ or some one stop it??), Why ( why the craetor create this scenario.)...

countless question & answer..all we can say: maybe doremon.../ maybe nobita....maybe we can do like this...maybe this & that..????

"maybe" a theory based of our imaginary & logical...

Sorry for my poor english, & cos another question. this scenario i still remenber it cleary...cos very interesting..until now still seed for answer. i tot this issue very similar to your topic..just for share.

Here is some movie like the concept above...just for share, not promoting.

13th Floor 1999 (.simulator create simulator...but the ending can be argue)
Run lola Run 1998 & The Girl Who Leapt Through Time (2006) / the sound of thunder 2004 ( each second, can change a result..little adjustment can create great impact to public/ history may change)

dream - Imaginary - concept - exploratory - experince - knowledge - logically - civilization.

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Added on June 29, 2011, 10:33 am+1 ...another issue may related to this topic...jangka sudut..

let say: 1 bulatan got 360degree....so we start in 0 degree (point A)..the we move to 1 degree (point B)...u may notice if nothing diferrence...but imagine u use it to ukur the jarak based on your degree...is totally diference.

(like triangle concept) star with: 0 point where 2 point (A & B) meet togethe...then u adjust it to 1 degree & move the point (A & B) forward to 1 km...after 1 km.... jarak between point A & B maybe 500-750m or more. Note: just only 1 degree diference.....the result very impact..

but both point maybe meet again in certain coordinate...why??..cos earth r sphere...

is about concept why...univel no boundary......

haha..just my view...

This post has been edited by peace230: Jun 29 2011, 10:34 AM

Just take it as, as infinite as our brain can compute. It's too huge, way beyond our comprehension.

Using existing theories and observations, we 'see' that the universe as an ever-expanding entity. Perhaps one day, a strange cosmic occurrence, or invention of craft traveling at light speed, may alter the way we look at space.

I understand you . THAT is a really really really interesting question . Those of you don't get it , read the highlighted part .

This I find really disturbing yet it challenges your brain . But again , that's if a time machine exist . Anyone can help contributing to his question and also to this topic ?

Sorry can't help on his question because me myself has also been thinking bout this .

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Added on June 29, 2011, 1:48 pmUnfortunately matt , I would try not to take this as beyond our comprehension . Theories like these always start contradicting religion but would like to keep religion out of this topic 100% .

Also in other galaxies is it possible to find another us ? In another dimension like for example another of matt85 in a completely different world .

Here is an example

matt85 -> Lives in a world where fish can fly*Andromeda
matt85 -> Lives in a world where dogs can fly*Bode's Galaxy
matt85 -> Lives in a world where humans can fly*Mayall's Object
matt85 -> Lives in a world where its located in the Milky Way on a planet called Earth

These codes are names of galaxies founded by scientist

This post has been edited by x-199Tx: Jun 29 2011, 01:48 PM

Go check out Through the Wormhole... Its a TV documentary series. Perhaps check out Season 2, Episode 2 - Is there an edge to the universe?

Doesn't really answer the question on what's beyond the universe or even whether there is an edge to the universe or is it perpetual, for lack of a better work . It's probably better if you watch it yourself. I am by no means an expert on this matter but I hope this little bit helps.

PS. good luck with your reserch!

The problem with this train of thought is this, all teh things we can imagine or think of right now is governed by the rules of science and maths, and these rules only work in *this* universe, anything that's beyond our universe should be incomprehensible to the human mind (and science, too!).
Wormholes or time travel are of this universe i.e even if they make no sense to our minds they'd still make sense on paper (or mathematical calculations or even in bad science fictions).
Perhaps TS should limit* the research to 'beyond the earth' or beyond the solar system'?

* which still seem too adventurous IMO, we have barely scratched the surface of figuring the 'human' himself!

ref. (only scanned them -hurts my brain lor , but interesting nonetheless)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_travel

I will check it out bro , thanks for info

Well right now I shall request for your imagination , screw what principles you learnt . try to ignore that and give me your imagination!

Sorry. No source. I just reasoned it out. Like this.

The observable universe is bound by the speed of light multiplied by the age of the universe. If the age of the universe is 15 billion years, then the observable universe is 15 billion light years. Anything at 20 billion light years cannot be seen now, because it would take 20 billion years for the light to get here. And if the universe is only 15 billion years, it would take another 5 billion years for the light to arrive. (I heard this somewhere, but cannot remember where).

If the limit of the observable universe is the same distance all around, it would be a sphere. And a ping pong ball is spherical.

So its like you imagined the growth as a universe starts from a centre point and the light years are the increasing radius from the centrepoint ?

Is it possible for someone to travel the speed of light and survive ?

In other words light defines speed right ?

Yes it is plausible. But is it possible now? No right?

That's what i'm trying to say. You can create tonnes of theories, but you need to prove them. Now we don't have the ability to prove them all right.



Which is why you can observe it as an ever-expanding sphere instead, x-199Tx. In good will, hopefully we can observe the ultimate universe, may it be a sphere, rectangle or pyramid-shaped

YeaH, guess you're right . But this assignment can also use imagination too . Not a must to apply all prinsiples or evidence ..

Good theory would be great .

Let me demonstrate another (IMO) fallacy of your attempt of 'using [your] imagination', first this post of yours:

- in each of your proposed scenario the rules of physics and maths and science is still observed, e.g flying fish is just fish that use flight (uplift, drag, air pressure etc.) as a mean of transport, they'd still consume food, breathe and everything, it's just their environment that is different, they're still in the same universe.

- going beyond the boundaries of this universe -to my thinking, means finding the place where the rules don't apply anymore. Thus there should be no light or matter there, there's nothing to see because our sights wouldn't work, nothing to measure because our technology wouldn't work and, assuming that we *can* exist there we need to find another sets of laws to describe it.

so let's take our thinking to the beyond Btw is there a never ending story ?

For example Light gets eaten by Black Hole . Black Hole gets eaten by X . X gets eaten by Y . Y gets eaten by I don't know why .. So is there a never ending chain ?

Couldn't the universe also be shaped like a donut? mean if you folded a piece of paper into like a roll, and the join both ends of the roll, you'll get something shaped like a donut. It would fit the principles of expansion and a donut shaped universe would be perceived as infinite by it's in habitants. You'd just travel round and round... Then again, 46.6 billion light years is as far as we can see right now, so till science gets past that hurdle, I guess all we can do is imagine...

Don't really get why we have to travel round and round ..

Sorry, what I meant was if you travel in a straight line, you'd in fact be going in circles... eg, draw a line on a piece of paper and then roll it up. An ant travelling on that line would think it's moving in a straight line. But in fact, the poor ant is just going around the rolled up peice of paper. Hence, giving it the illusion of an endless infinite space...

Not really. There may well be parts of the universe beyond which is not observable (because the light has not had enough time to get here).

Not without some breakthrough in science and tech. When you're just below light speed, if you're hit by a grain of dust, that grain will have an unimaginably large mass. The collision would be catastrophic.

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Added on July 2, 2011, 8:50 amYou're referring to a hypersphere?

In other words, the universe might be finite but unbound. Just like we can walk forever on the surface of the earth and never find the edge, though the earth's surface area is not infinite. And if we walk far enough, we would eventually end up at where we started from.

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Added on July 2, 2011, 8:54 amThis is why we have virtual machines. So that badly behaved critters (programs) in one universe do not cause problems in other universes (VMs).

This post has been edited by dkk: Jul 2 2011, 08:54 AM

Bro, you an astrophysicist or what? Lol. Exactly what I was trying to say... Gotta admit you said it much better though. Finite but unbound, exactly. I was also trying to point out that the universe need not be in only the shape of a sphere to be finite but unbound. The donut a.k.a. hypersphere is merely another example of suach a shape...

Point noted

More ideas !

i've seen a video about NASA managed to take a photo about the sign of Son of Man (Christianity) and I don't know from which angle or how far the photo was taken.

Maybe you could approach your research by talking about evolution vs creationism in explaining the vast of space today. Hope it helps!