i normally use a lot of blues scales and minor pentatonics. THe main 7 modes i hardly touch. And my theory is still not up to that level where i can start jazzing around. So if my guitarist starts playing weird jazzy chords, then i will go with everdyings advice...

learn to play scales about anywhere on the neck starting from diff postitions and strings. just spend a week or so doin that everyday and before u know it u're free to go. the next step would be being creative after u already know how to play scales around the neck

easier said than done...
been trying for years

Yeah, I have done some but it's hard to visualize you know? Let's say you're improvising, you wanna switch from... say... A Mixolydian to C Mixolydian as the chord changes... it's gonna take more than a year's practice I reckon!

cmon, not years lah. when someone first told u to know/memorize all the notes across the entire guitar neck u mustve thought it was crazy too but i bet now if i tell you to play C when ur hand is in the 12th fret position i am sure u wouldnt have to think much to find out where is it. am i right???

same thing here. one u know the shape of a certain scale/mode, all u have to do is change ur position so the root note of that scale/mode starts where u want it to be and start playing. of course, u need to know all the notes on the guitar neck. this isnt like piano or keyboard. on the guitar ur fingering for a certain scale will be the same, you just have to change positions and root notes. eg: a minor penatonic box shape fingering style. play it starting from the 5th fret of the lowest string and u get a A minor pentatonic, start on the 3rd u get a G.

note: sorry if i sound kinda blur but i cant really think well now.....must get more sleep...watching worldcup...gtg to sleep

I'm still convinced it will take years...Cuz i havent got it yet ...

Hmmm, that make sense... Even though your explanation was pretty blurry (World Cup fever ) but I got your point... I'ill give it a try next time I practise me scales...

i dun get it....regardless of where i start, it's still A minor pentatonic rite? but the question was changing scales....if i play a C-major scale it is easy to move it around the fretboard. But changing scales is a different thing. eg changing between mixolyd and lyd modes of the C scale at different positions...thats hard....

fyi, every scale cover up the whole fretboard... its not that hard to change a scale to another u can even do it without changing ur left hand position..

i cant...hahaha

Didn't see this thread on page one anymore.... Forgot all about it.
free free kena flame....rosak reputation.... hahaha

so: copy/paste from thread

So just to spark of a discussion

-How are music and theory related?
-And how can one apply theory to being musically creative?
-How can I put into my music what i have practiced?

For example if i practice chromatics all day long sequentially (up and down the fretboard), putting that into my solo will sound rather...stupid, because its melodically incorrect with the tune..... If you get what i mean....

I've seen many people saying "practice this practice that...do this dont do that". But none of them says " these notes fit together, and these dont". And that is in my opinion the biggest problem facing many young aspiring musicians such as myself.

Opinions?

This post has been edited by Bassix: Jun 21 2006, 06:49 PM

actually i would like to know how much theory helps in the overall mastery of guitar. Would playing songs via tabs suffice over years or at some point we'd have to stoop down and study theory in order to progress?

it all depends on whether or not you are the type who see success in music as playing other peoples songs/riffs/solos perfectly without mistakes. Or you are the type who, like me get bored after awhile and looks for something new. I guess then theory is important....my problem is applying the technique (either playing technique or notes & composing) to my music. Improvising if you would prefer to call it.

I mean, everyone can play C major scale. Everybody says practicing scales helps. I personally dont see how. Well, it did a little bit in terms of speed training. But other than that, it didn't do very much. Or maybe i just don't know how to apply what i learn technically to what i do musically....

It actually depends on what you are heading for in the end. Usually a musician's goal if to achieve pure expression, in the sense that you could play what you hear in your head without relying heavily on theory knowledge. Tabs are pretty much shortcuts to play a song, and it does help in training your ears.
But imo, knowing how to play without theory knowledge is like having an ability to speak a language but not being able to write it. Theory helps you understand what you're playing & with a strong foundation, the music you hear would make sense to you. You won't be just hearing a 'group' of notes, you would be able to make sense of the melody, chord progression etc.
Whether it's important or not to improve your playing, I don't know. But imo, never treat theory as a boring thing, think about the things that you would learn from it, the more you know, the more exciting music is to your ears.

Theory is really great and everything...but it still doesn't help me in being creative. So is creativity linked to theory at all? Or is it natural inborn talent?

What i'm saying is...ya great i can play all the seven modes of a scale...woohoo...now what? It's frustrating to spend so much time practicing the scales and not being able to apply them in the music without them sounding like scales. I listened to Pix's blues improvisation. It was good. I know he used a few modes in there but it didn't sound like a scale. How?

I think its something similar to learning English, where you learn what word to use and when to use and how to use. Its something where everyone knows, but there's some folks who can express their sentence or vocabulary to some degree

Learning basic theory is important for pianist or reed/brass players. These players have to start young coz there's lots to learn if you're serious about learning them. Its not like us guitarist .... get a cheap Rm600 eletric guitar and brag to everyone .... "I can play a G chord!!!!"

so the more you speak english and the more you read it the better you express yourself?

Guess that seperates the "artist" from the "musicians". I'll stick to my G-chord for now...

Yup

So the more you use those Theory stuff you learned the better your guitar playing aka "expressing yourself"

Sometimes you can mix and match, like this XYZ scale can match with ABC scale to form a 123 riff

It's like English .... there's alot of those words where you never heard of or never come across before ... and then when you use it, people like "what's the meaning of that word"

i practised scales a lot, especially the blues, dorian, aeolian and ionian scales. Basically, everytime i pick up my guitar I spend the whole time playing improvisation and scales... So for me it is totally related : I started playing scales a lot, and I end up improvising all the time. Most of it is crap but it's a superb exercise to work out on your 'music skills' (listening to yourself, try to create melodies, etc...).

The second thing is that scales will open doors to new sounds, new melodies, new chords that would otherwise not be familiar to your ears. Therefore, without knowing those scales, you can't even think about an
original melody. It's like another dimension you're not aware of.
You'll always mess around with the pentatonic minor scale because 90% of radio music and 90% of the music you listened to when you were younger is based on that 5-notes scale. Learning new scales open new doors.

well just my 2 cents...

thanks bassix for the comments

Very insightful. and i'd like to know, to reconfirm, scales are of the same pattern even from different starting positions? pardon me, i've only just started to delve into scale playing and it seems pretty dry up till now.