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 Digital TV Station Malaysia, How do I tune to digital TV station?

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joshhd
post May 2 2018, 10:00 PM

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QUOTE(+Mie1+ @ May 1 2018, 08:28 PM)
Hmmm.... They planned to switch off analog TV by 1 June 2018.
*
It was delayed until further notice.
https://www.lowyat.net/2018/156799/malaysia...witchoff-delay/

However, I predict that it shall not longer than 2019 because part of frequency range used for both analogue and digital TV broadcasting will be used for mobile operators to utilise for LTE from end 2019.

https://www.lowyat.net/2017/133698/myfreevi...al-tv-malaysia/
https://www.lowyat.net/2017/144455/700mhz-mobile-bb-30mbps/
joshhd
post Nov 21 2018, 01:40 AM

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QUOTE(YoungMan @ Nov 18 2018, 07:40 PM)
But Astro is Ku-band right? anyone tried with C-band dish?
*
Yes, Astro uses Ku band.
What you want to know about C band?
joshhd
post Nov 21 2018, 01:42 AM

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QUOTE(AmeiN @ Nov 19 2018, 03:43 PM)
digital tv channel will effect by rain or wind? im using build in antenna port from building. and it seem affected by raining.
*
No it shall not be affected by weather. If it happens, then there's something wrong with the signal strength levels, or some other technical issues.
Inform your building management about it, or you just use a indoor antenna instead of connecting to the wall antenna port of the building.
joshhd
post Nov 22 2018, 01:27 AM

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QUOTE(YoungMan @ Nov 21 2018, 08:10 PM)
Is it can stand rainy weather?
*
C band does not suffer rain fade problem like Ku band (pronounce as "K" "U" band, not pronounced as "Ku" literally). And that's just one of the advantages of C band.
If you actually familiar with C band and Ku band, you'll know that there's pros and cons between them, and it is not as simple as just a rain fade issue.
The biggest difference will be the technical limitations and the overall operating costs involved. This one you can Google to find out more.
joshhd
post Jan 23 2019, 01:01 AM

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How's the Johorian's response on Singapore's analogue TV shutdown, especially in northern Johor areas like Muar where lots of TV antennas installed high up? Are many of them switched to digital TV to continue watching Singapore TV channels?

How's the digital TV signal reception there? Is it easier to receive Singapore TV signals compared to analogue TV before?
joshhd
post Jan 24 2019, 02:21 AM

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I wonder, if there's 3 main towers in Klang Valley, which are KL Tower, Sungai Besi Tower and Gunung Ulu Kali (Genting Highlands) transmits the same 666MHz on digital TV, wouldn't it cause signal interference between towers? Cuz this 3 towers aren't very very far from each other also... Anyone here, can explain a bit...

And how about analogue TV? Why it seems that we don't see such signal interference between nearby towers that transmit same frequency? Or I'm wrong?

This post has been edited by joshhd: Jan 24 2019, 02:24 AM
joshhd
post Jan 24 2019, 05:44 PM

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QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Jan 24 2019, 05:00 AM)
Digital TV, when planned well on SFN mode, won't cause any interference between transmitters. In fact, it increases the overall coverage of particular frequency and uses less frequencies. This allows mobile broadband to take over some spectrums formerly used by TV, when analogue switchover is done. For example, in Singapore, only 4 frequencies is used for all DTT services and all runs on SFN mode, which many small transmitters is build to allow easy reception using indoor antenna.
Analogue TV uses one frequency for one TV programme, and different masts uses entirety different frequencies (In Klang Valley's case, each channel transmits at least 2 frequencies (Gn Ulu Kali, Menara KL/ Bt Sg Besi) due to local terrain issues, which results to huge overlap between 2 transmitters. You have to take care of other main transmitters too (like Gn Telapak Burok, Gn Kledang, Bt Fraser) to avoid causing unwatchable picture.
In Malaysia, the TV frequency planning is so poorly planned (usage of horizontal antennas only + too much services allocated on analogue TV) that interference between analogue transmitters happens in many parts of Peninsular Malaysia. This is the same in Johor, when you could receive analogue TV channels from 3 countries, causing very little suitable frequencies left until causing co channel interference between MYTV Gn Pulai and SCTV analogue Batam and also TV1 analogue Gn Ledang and the former Channel U analogue exists.
*
QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Jan 24 2019, 05:00 AM)
Analogue TV uses one frequency for one TV programme, and different masts uses entirety different frequencies (In Klang Valley's case, each channel transmits at least 2 frequencies (Gn Ulu Kali, Menara KL/ Bt Sg Besi) due to local terrain issues, which results to huge overlap between 2 transmitters.
You said 2 frequencies for the same channel in each transmitter, you mean it transmits both VHF and UHF (equals 2 frequencies), OR they transmit 2 UHF frequencies from the same transmitter? If possible, show some example of frequencies used. If not sure with the frequency, it's okay. I'm just curious.
QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Jan 24 2019, 05:00 AM)
In Malaysia, the TV frequency planning is so poorly planned (usage of horizontal antennas only + too much services allocated on analogue TV) that interference between analogue transmitters happens in many parts of Peninsular Malaysia.
Usage of Horizontal antennas only? Hmm, I thought terrestrial TV are supposed to be horizontal polarisation? Yeah, except Brunei which I know that they use Vertical only for digital TV now, and the UHF antenna shall rotate into vertical position to receive.
And, what you mean too much "services" on analogue TV? Err, all I know is last time, analogue TV used to have teletext service, but now no more already... What are the other "services" on analogue TV that the mass public and including myself, are still don't know, other than the usual analogue TV channel?
joshhd
post Jan 24 2019, 06:50 PM

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The LATEST frequencies that I know are

>Gunung Ledang, Northern Johor
189.25MHz 7 - TV2
224.25MHz 12 - TV3
527.25MHz 28 - TV1
583.25MHz 35 - NTV7
599.25MHz 37 - TV9
623.25MHz 40 - TV Al Hijrah
687.25MHz 48 - 8TV

546MHz - Malaysia Digital TV (myFreeview)

>Bukit Batok, Singapore
175.25MHz 5 - Channel 5 Analogue (ceased)
196.25MHz 8- Channel 8 Analogue (ceased)
224.25MHz 12 - Suria Analogue (ceased)
495.25MHz 24 - Vasantham Analogue (ceased)
527.25MHz 28 - Channel U Analogue (ceased)
543.25MHz 30 - okto Analogue (ceased)
559.25MHz 32 - Channel NewsAsia Analogue (ceased)

538MHz - Channel 5 (HD), Suria (HD)
554MHz - Channel 8 (HD), Vasantham (HD)
570MHz - Channel NewsAsia (HD), Channel U (SD), okto (HD)
586MHz - Channel U (HD)

>Gunung Pulai, Southern Johor
210.25MHz 10- TV2
511.25MHz 26 - TV3
639.25MHz 42 - NTV7
655.25MHz 44 - TV9
671.25MHz 46 - 8TV
743.25MHz 55 - TV1

682MHz - Malaysia Digital TV (myFreeview)

>Batam, Indonesia
487.25MHz 23 - tvOne
503.25MHz 25- Metro TV
615.25MHz 39 - NET
631.25MHz 41 - MNC
647.25MHz 43 - RCTI
663.25MHz 45 - Trans TV
679.25MHz 47 - SCTV
695.25MHz 49 - Indosiar
711.25MHz 51 - Batam TV
727.25MHz 53 - ANTV
743.25MHz 55 - RTV
759.25MHz 57 - Global TV
775.25MHz 59 - Trans 7
791.25MHz 61 - iNews

Special thanks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xvXDKyjE3c

*For reference purposes only. May contain incomplete/inaccurate info.

This post has been edited by joshhd: Jan 31 2019, 11:00 PM
joshhd
post Jan 24 2019, 07:45 PM

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UPDATED: Current TV frequency use in Southern Johor

470-483.25MHz - EMPTY?

487.25MHz (483.25-491.25MHz) 23 - tvOne
495.25MHz (491.25-499.25MHz) 24 - Vasantham Analogue (ceased)
503.25MHz (499.25-507.25MHz) 25 - Metro TV
511.25MHz (507.25-515.25MHz) 26 - TV3
519.25MHz (515.25-523.25MHz) 27 - EMPTY for Analogue?
527.25MHz (523.25-531.25MHz) 28 - Channel U Analogue (ceased)
538.00MHz (534.00-542.00MHz) - Channel 5 (HD), Suria (HD)
543.25MHz (539.25-547.25MHz) 30 - okto Analogue (ceased)
546.00MHz (542.00-550.00MHz) – Digital TV myFreeview Gunung Ledang
554.00MHz (550.00-558.00MHz) - Channel 8 (HD), Vasantham (HD)
559.25MHz (555.25-563.25MHz) 32 - Channel NewsAsia Analogue (ceased)
570.00MHz (566.00-574.00MHz)- Channel NewsAsia (HD), Channel U (SD), okto (HD)
578.00MHz (574.00-582.00MHz) – EMPTY for Digital?
586.00MHz (582.00-590.00MHz) Channel U (HD)

590.00-611.25MHz - EMPTY?
**610MHz (606-614MHz) - Ceased, now vacant: Singapore DTT channels that was firstly available on DVB-T.

615.25MHz (611.25-619.25MHz) 39 – NET
623.25MHz (619.25-627.25MHz) 40 - EMPTY for Analogue?
631.25MHz (627.25-635.25MHz) 41 - MNC TV
639.25MHz 42 - NTV7
647.25MHz 43 - RCTI
655.25MHz 44 - TV9
663.25MHz 45 - Trans TV
671.25MHz 46 - 8TV
!679.25MHz 47 (675.25-683.25MHz) - SCTV
!682.00MHz (678.00-686.00MHz) Malaysia Digital TV (myFreeview)
695.25MHz 49 (691.25-699.25MHz) - Indosiar
703.25MHz 50 - EMPTY for Analogue?
711.25MHz 51 - Batam TV
719.25MHz 52 - EMPTY for Analogue?
727.25MHz 53 - ANTV
!743.25MHz 55 (739.25-747.25MHz) - TV1
!743.25MHz 55 (739.25-747.25MHz) - RTV
759.25MHz 57 - Global TV
767.25MHz 58 - EMPTY for Analogue?
775.25MHz 59 - Trans 7
783.25MHz 60 - EMPTY for Analogue?
791.25MHz (787.25-795.25MHz) - 61 – iNews

Vacant frequency that myFreeview can consider to transmit at Gunung Pulai to prevent interference?
474MHz (470-478MHz)
578MHz (574-582MHz)
594MHz (590-598MHz)
602MHz (598-606MHz)

Empty space, but potential interference when myFreeview uses that frequency:
482MHz (478-487MHz) - Interfered by tvOne
626MHz (622-630MHz) - Will interfere MNC TV

*For reference purposes only. May contain incomplete/inaccurate info.

This post has been edited by joshhd: Jan 31 2019, 11:12 PM
joshhd
post Jan 25 2019, 12:15 AM

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QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Jan 24 2019, 11:01 PM)
"2 Frequencies" here mean 1 TV frequency for 1 TV programme for 1 transmitter. At least 13 analogue TV frequencies can be received and in many areas within Klang Valley, both sets of frequencies are being received.

Gn Ulu Kali :
VHF 10 - TV2 (low power)
UHF 27 - 8TV
UHF 29 - TV3
UHF 37 - NTV7
UHF 42 - TV9
UHF 48 - TV1
UHF 55 - TV Alhijrah

Menara KL
VHF 5 - TV1
VHF 8 - TV2

Bt Sungai Besi
VHF 7 - NTV7 (low power)
VHF 12 - TV3
UHF 33 - TV9
UHF 58 - 8TV

myFreeview DTT on all 3 transmitters - UHF 45/666Mhz.

“Too much services” here mean co channel interference between TV transmitters in areas with terrain/too many relay transmitters. Sometimes, the transmitters which are using the same frequency are located too close, hence causing interference. The service is the same usual analogue channels however. Vertical polarisation is exploited, especially in UK for its relay transmitters to provide maximum coverage. This is similar to Digital TV in Netherlands, when vertical is fully used to reduce interference levels from France, Belgium, Germany, and UK, which mainly uses horizontal antennas.

Ch U (SD) is also carried on Ch 33 alongside its HD availability on Ch 35.
Ch 40 is transmitted from Bt Tinggi, Johor, which principally target Mersing area. Could be still receivable by viewers located in Kluang using outdoor antenna alongside the 2 RTM services. (TV1 - Ch 6, TV2 - Ch 9) Refer to : https://youtu.be/PIvDiPtefNs
DTT from Gunung Ledang uses Ch30 and not Ch47, the former analogue frequency of okto. The allocated frequency for Bt Tinggi is also the same as Gunung Ledang.
*
If possible, please state the exact MHz frequency instead of RF channel number... I get very confused as I don't know which frequency is it for the RF channel number.

Why Gunung Ulu Kali's TV2 and Sungai Besi's NTV7 transmits in low power? That's the main transmitter, not a repeater/relay, right? Shouldn't it transmit in high power just like other channels on Ulu Kali? Is it because of VHF? Why?
QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Jan 24 2019, 11:01 PM)
Sometimes, the transmitters which are using the same frequency are located too close, hence causing interference.
For analogue TV, for sure it'll get interference easily. But how about digital TV? Even with the use of SFN, will it still has interference if nearby transmitters or relay towers are too close and/or transmit power too strong to each other?
QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Jan 24 2019, 11:01 PM)
Vertical polarisation is exploited, especially in UK for its relay transmitters to provide maximum coverage
Any idea on what's stopping Malaysia from using Vertical polarisation, either for analogue or digital TV?
QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Jan 24 2019, 11:01 PM)
Ch U (SD) is also carried on Ch 33 alongside its HD availability on Ch 35.
Even after Singapore analogue TV has shut down, the SD version of Channel U on 570MHz are still in transmission? I thought Mediacorp channels are now 100% in HD on DTT platform? hmm.gif The reason they have not cease the SD version of Channel U is because...? For the sake of viewers who still unable to properly receive HD version (586MHz) of Channel U due to some interference, or what?
QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Jan 24 2019, 11:01 PM)
DTT from Gunung Ledang uses Ch30 and not Ch47, the former analogue frequency of okto.
I did a DTT scan in my relative house at Northern Johor last time, and the frequency I get is 546MHz. Erm, the Ch30 and Ch47 you mentioned is what MHz? I'm confused.... confused.gif
joshhd
post Jan 25 2019, 12:52 AM

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QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Jan 24 2019, 11:29 PM)
I think that very little frequency is left for Malaysian DTT for Southern Johor, unless using exclusive DTT allocation currently allocated to Indonesia (even numbers on Ch 39-54 (48) and Ch 21-26 shared with Malaysia) or Singapore (between Ch 27-38) as an interim, which negotiations has to be done. In some cases frequencies higher than Ch 54 must be used, which Malaysia is not interested with. All exclusive frequencies allocated to Malaysia (odd numbers between Ch 39-54 (48)) are currently used by Indonesian analogue TV. Only Ch 21, Ch 22 and Ch 24 (soon to be vacated by Vasantham which has cease analogue transmission) can be used without any major problems. Ch 40 will cause interference to TV Alhijrah transmitted on Bt Tinggi, especially in Kluang, so not suitable.
*
I'm so clueless when you mention the channel number. If you don't mind, can you tell me the centre frequency MHz, instead of the channel number?
QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Jan 24 2019, 11:29 PM)
In some cases frequencies higher than Ch 54 must be used, which Malaysia is not interested with.
I'll be referring to this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_channel_frequencies#United_Kingdom,_Ireland,_Hong_Kong,_Macau,_Falkland_Islands_and_Southern_Africa) when you say the channel number. It should be correct for analogue TV, but I don't know for digital TV.
Ch 54 is what MHz?
QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Jan 24 2019, 11:29 PM)
Only Ch 21, Ch 22 and Ch 24 (soon to be vacated by Vasantham which has cease analogue transmission) can be used without any major problems.
Can you, or anyone confirm which date and time where all Singapore analogue channels signal completely shut off, and no longer showing "Analogue TV has ceased" blue colour background message? Cuz I see on Internet, some viewers are seeing the "Analogue TV has ceased" blue colour background message, while some viewers sees complete black picture/no signal on their analogue TV in between 1-2 Jan 2019, where ASO date took place.

Knowing that Singapore has ceased analogue TV and those frequencies are now vacant, is it somewhat "legal" for other country like Malaysia or Indonesia to transmit its analogue TV channel on those vacant Singapore analogue TV frequencies, "without seeking permission" from Singapore? Cuz after all, those frequencies aren't transmitting anything...🤷‍♂ Although yeah I do know that no one will start to transmit new analogue TV channel now, since analogue switch-off is coming soon.
joshhd
post Jan 25 2019, 01:40 AM

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Why Singapore's digital TV uses 4 frequencies (538MHz, 554MHz, 570MHz and 586MHz)? Why not just transmit all channels in 1 mux like Malaysia's myFreeview? They could've save some headache on "lack of frequency use" problems. Is it because for them to "reserve" some frequencies for them, for future use?

Hmmm, there's an empty/unused channel in between 570MHz (Channel NewsAsia, okto, Ch U (SD) and 586MHz (Channel U HD), which is 578MHz.
Can Malaysia's myFreeview transmits its channel on that frequency, where it will be like, Malaysia DTT channels "sitting next to each other closely" with Singapore DTT channels. How about the QAM used? Malaysia uses 256QAM, but Singapore uses 64QAM. Will it cause some sort of interference or anyhow affects reception quality in either Malaysia DTT or Singapore DTT because different QAMs are used closely in between adjacent channels?

It is obvious that both TV1 (Malaysia) and RTV (Indonesia) analogue TV channels are in serious interference, as if it's like "taking turns to interfere with each other" like what you can see in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA2fqvNYdT4
Both channels uses the same 743.25MHz. And also, why Malaysia digital TV (MYTV Broadcasting) chooses to transmit on 682MHz for Gunung Pulai which ultimately will interfere SCTV on 679.25MHz (675.25-683.25MHz)? Aren't frequency are "first come first serve basis"? For sure SCTV uses the frequency first since long long ago, and then suddenly 682MHz appears and disrupt each other? Why MYTV want to do that? hmm.gif Did ever Malaysia and/or Indonesia government make noise on all these interference issues? Both parties can't find solutions for that? Wouldn't the viewers from either countries complain this interference issue to MCMC or Kemkominfo (Ministry of Communication and Information Technology Indonesia) since the interference take place? Or, nobody cares anymore because ASO will be done sooner or later anyway?

After Malaysia has done ASO, and both Malaysia and Singapore are going to use 700MHz band for either LTE/5G.
If by any chance, even after some planning like the tower location and transmit power limits being carried out for Malaysia/Singapore telcos deploying 700MHz band especially near or has line-of-sight towards Indonesia, the LTE/5G signals still somehow manage to interfere some Indonesian analogue channels, which are Batam TV, ANTV, RTV, Global TV, Trans 7, and iNews. Does Indonesia has rights to complain for interfering their selected analogue TV channels, even knowing that their ASO will be done sooner or later?

This post has been edited by joshhd: Jan 25 2019, 02:00 AM
joshhd
post Jan 25 2019, 11:42 PM

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The link you sent to me, about the DVB-T SFN one, It does mention about the distance between transmitters stuff, and I can only understand a little bit of it cuz it's too deep for me to understand lol... But I just want to know is, if the transmit power for 2 nearby transmitters are too strong, and SFN are used for the 2 towers to repeat same frequency, will it cause any reception issues?

You said that seeing black screens on analogue channels are connecting their TV using Starhub's cable point. You mean the analogue cable TV, Starhub Cable Point? Not the Starhub digital cable pay TV service, right? You mean Starhub completely switch off analogue cable TV as well, is it? The black screen is because they transmit black screen (dead air), or it's the TV itself showing black screen due to no signal?
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post Jan 25 2019, 11:46 PM

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So you're saying that Singapore DTT reception is still possible with very poor signals on 16QAM, while reception for 256QAM can become unstable or possibly not able to detect at all when signal is too poor? Why Singapore wants to use 16QAM? Cuz when you say easy reception especially with indoor antenna use those HDB and high rise buildings, another reason that comes my mind is, partly or possibly because they want to allow Northern Johorians to be able to receive Singapore channels easily even the antennas are installed high up like in Muar and the signal is still weak, as they know that they have lots of potential viewers from Johor as well, which ultimately can contribute to their viewership ratings? Well, Malaysian FTA stations now are sucks anyway and Johorians want higher quality programmes and more choices, so many would opt for Singapore channels... hmm.gif

Do you think Singapore DTT would continue transmits in 16QAM even after expected islandwide frequency retune exercise would be carried out after ASO has completed and negotiations on frequency use for all 3 countries? Do you think they would use this opportunity to reduce the use of multiplexes from the current 4 to 2 or 1, by increasing QAM to 64QAM or 256QAM? Cuz you got to take into the account that what if in the future, Mediacorp decided to provide 4K UHD channels via DTT, or even in the long run, transmit simulcast HD/UHD channels on all of their 7 channels? Will they have enough mux and bandwidth by fully utilise (fully "sandwich") all current 4 multiplexes they use now with 16QAM? If they increase the QAM, how does it gonna affect the signal reception in Northern Johor viewers?

How does the activation of Skudai and Pelangi repeaters partly solve Malaysia DTT reception issue for JB viewers? Picture freeze and sudden signal drop issue doesn't occur that often than before? No wonder I saw on Facebook that JB people complains that they can only receive Singapore DTT but Malaysia DTT can't. And duh, we all know that MYTV transmitters has no problem, the problem is the frequency they use... I can't imagine, how can they not care when it is interfering with other's frequency? Or the number of viewers is very little in the affected region till the point that they just don't want to care anymore?
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post Jan 30 2019, 01:45 AM

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QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Jan 26 2019, 07:55 AM)
Interference could happen if those transmitters using SFN is not planned well. It could significantly shrink the reception range of the transmitter due to co channel interference. Even with a well planned SFN network, some high power/gap filler transmitters may be needed to added into the network to improve overall reception to avoid some areas losing reception completely.

Those connecting their analogue TV to Starhub's cable point infrastructure are seeing just blank screens (dead air) transmitted by Starhub themselves (all but 2 channels on the system doesn't switch to blank screen, which was the 743.25Mhz Starhub Testcard and also the sport channel which has ended transmission on 28 December 2018, showing information screen regarding closure.) Starhub also plan to discontinue their digital cable TV services on 30 June 2019 as they move their customers off IPTV platforms and to retire their cable network.
Maybe, but back then when Channel U (analogue) was interfered by TV1 Gunung Ledang back on 2010, causing large scale interference to Channel U to many parts in Johor (including areas as far as Pontian and Pekan Nanas), causing viewer complaints to Channel U's Facebook page at that time. Channel U responded as they are a Singapore channel, they will not care about reception issues in Malaysia as it is out of their control. So any reception of Singaporean channels will be an bonus for Johor viewers. However, there were reports at the past describing man installing TV antennas in Muar as Singapore TV channels are quite popular there and some Johor Bahru based businesses (particularly theme parks like Legoland) do advertise on Mediacorp TV channels. Vasantham even organise events on Johor Bahru.

They may continue using 16 QAM modulation for an considerable future, unless they are going to start 4K/UHD transmission in the future. Even if UHD reception is available in the future, it will be niche for considerable time as it was hard to even switch over. This is the same for HD5 channel via DVB-T. Many who doesn't subscribe to pay TV remained using analouge TV, as the analogue channels can be received without any ghosting and snows via the cable point and DVB-T only carried 3 simulcast channels (Ch5 and HD5, Ch8, CNA). This resulted very few viewers are receiving the channels in DVB-T as there were no promotion on digital TV at that time.

Before the activation of these masts, the DTT transmission were only available from the Gunung Pulai mast only. Although I live in a location when the TV mast could be clearly seen, constant freezing of TV signal was frequently encountered. It wasn't until they activated those 2 masts who partly solve my problems, as those 2 are intended for indoor reception and is strategicly placed so that viewers live in these areas using outdoor antenna (whenever pointed to Gunung Pulai/Bukit Batok SG) could still receive better signal for Malaysia TV. There will be additional interference caused by Indosiar from Batam, as those transmitters has activated Channel 49/698MHz (MYTV MUX 2). Some in JB still can't receive local DTT via antenna (a big issue that must be resolved fast or it would cause negative perception to MYTV when analogue TV switches off), and the problem was caused by co channel issue caused by SCTV, as someone from Batam received stable signals from Malaysia DTT if SCTV happened to have problem on the transmitter.
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QUOTE
They may continue using 16 QAM modulation for an considerable future,
Thank you very much for all the explanation you've given in the past few days. I really really appreciate those information very much.

I wanna ask, do you know what is the FEC code rate used in Singapore DTT? Are all 4 mux having the same FEC code rate?
How about Malaysia's? What's the FEC used for Malaysia DTT?

Compare between 16QAM and 256QAM, besides able to transmit more bandwidth, how big is the difference in terms of signal reception?
Does it mean, let say now I'm a Singaporean, live in HDB, using indoor antenna to watch Singapore DTT channels and have 90% signal, thanks to 16QAM.
If one day, Singapore DTT uses 64QAM or 256QAM, how much does it affect the signal reading? Will I see a big drop of signal % reading? Or the reading did not drop, but the chance of not able to get 0 reading of BER is higher, or what? Could I even, completely lose signal as Singapore DTT transmits in 64 or 256QAM?

Another question... Is Indonesia DTT channels possible to receive in Johor or Singapore now? How's the reception? What are the frequencies, QAM and the FEC used? You have the channel list?

This post has been edited by joshhd: Jan 30 2019, 01:47 AM
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post Jan 30 2019, 01:55 AM

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Singapore DTT channels transmits from the frequency range within 538MHz to 586MHz with empty gaps in between. If Singapore's IMDA would have islandwide frequency retune exercise, like after 3 countries has decided which frequencies to be allocated for DTT after ASO and 700MHz refarm for mobile, could they consider this:

i) Increase from 16QAM to 64QAM (or 256QAM?), to squeeze in more HD channels per multiplex to reduce the number of multiplexes to be used, and possibly in the future (many many years from now), they could offer new UHD channels since they have more bandwidth as QAM increases?
ii) Instead of using 5xxMHz range frequencies, Singapore to use the lowest range in UHF frequency possible (474MHz, 482MHz, 490MHz, 498MHz) for DTT, to compensate the QAM increase which may affect easy signal reception and improving indoor reception, in contrasts with the current 5xxMHz range, it can somehow have better wall penetration for indoor reception. Therefore, the rest of total 25 x 8MHz channels which is from 506MHz-594MHz and 602MHz-698MHz range to be allocated for Malaysia and Indonesia DTT.

What do you think? Do you think this is somewhat practical? Why I think that way is because,

Singapore FTA channels: Programming are generally better in quality, so in my opinion, for them to make sure their channels have easy signal reception is a wise thing to do. And that could also mean, easier for Johor people to receive their channels easier too, which is a bonus for Johorians and a bonus for Mediacorp as their channel viewership ratings are "naturally" being contributed from country outside Singapore.

Malaysia FTA channels: Just ugh, still has lots of room for improvement. Currently already using 6xxMHz frequency, so hmmm, no comment la.

Indonesia FTA channels: Since reception are generally meant for Batam, the population there isn't very very dense and high rise buildings there are not as much as Johor Bahru and Singapore... So, for them to use slightly higher UHF frequencies (>506MHz or >602MHz ones) shall not be a huge problem for them, isn't it? After all, many of their analogue FTA channels are now on 7xxMHz range, so yeaahh....

----

If Singapore to have frequency retune exercise, how would they manage and reconfigure with the building's MATV system, or indoor signal repeater or something? Do they only repeat their 4 multiplexes of Singapore DTT, or they need not to do anything as its building signal repeater actually repeats all channels from 3 countries together (from 470-698MHz)?
joshhd
post Jan 31 2019, 10:45 PM

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Wahh... Your technical explanation really amused me this time (cuz I can't understand much lol). I wonder, are you working in that industry?
I mostly know pretty much the surface level of the technical stuff, but not into almost "engineer" level la... biggrin.gif

QUOTE
Malaysia's is 256QAM GI 19/256 COFDM (FFT) 32k FEC 2/3.
I did come across the 19/256, COFDM 32k thing, but I don't understand what does that mean. I only know higher QAM means more bandwidth (e.g. 256QAM) but at the same time, reception may become not as robust as lower QAM. (I wonder is this the same, compare with LTE vs LTE Advanced Pro vs Gigabit LTE? Cuz I know the QAM used are higher?)

What do you think about the technical parameters set by MYTV? Is it good, or poor? If compare with Singapore DTT ones, how different is it? Besides the QAM used...

QUOTE
Mediacorp can choose to use lesser multiplexes with higher QAM (reduction from 4 multiplexes to 2 multiplexes with more channels per multiplex while maintaining same quality) however the required transmitter power will be much higher.
Then why MYTV don't just use lower QAM and have 2-3 mux instead of 1, to reduce transmit power, and for them to save cost a bit? Or, MYTV prefers to use the spectral efficient way, rather than making reception robust?

QUOTE
If Singapore needed to do frequency retune exercise in the future, they may not allocate those multiplexes that close (538mhz,546mhz,554mhz .etc) as it may cause adjencent channel interference.
Adjacent channel interference?? Hmmm
QUOTE
527.25MHz (523.25-531.25MHz) - Channel U Analogue (ceased)
538.00MHz (534.00-542.00MHz) - Channel 5 (HD), Suria (HD)
543.25MHz (539.25-547.25MHz) - okto Analogue (ceased)
546.00MHz (542.00-550.00MHz) - EMPTY for Southern Johor, but it is myFreeview frequency for Northern Johor
554.00MHz (550.00-558.00MHz) - Channel 8 (HD), Vasantham (HD)
559.25MHz (555.25-563.25MHz) - Channel NewsAsia Analogue (ceased)
570.00MHz (566.00-574.00MHz) - Channel NewsAsia (HD), Channel U (SD), okto (HD)
578.00MHz (574.00-582.00MHz) - EMPTY for Digital?
586.00MHz (582.00-590.00MHz) - Channel U (HD)
How come Singapore DTT and analogue channels are squeezed together, without causing any reception issues to user? It is obvious that the frequency range of each channel "intersect" with the other analogue/digital channel's 8MHz range. Channels are from Singapore, so it shall be the same Bukit Batok transmitting tower. Wouldn't that cause adjacent frequency interference? While compare with analogue channels between Malaysia and Indonesia:
QUOTE
631.25MHz 41 - MNC TV
639.25MHz 42 - NTV7
647.25MHz 43 - RCTI
655.25MHz 44 - TV9
663.25MHz 45 - Trans TV
671.25MHz 46 - 8TV
The sequence is Indonesia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Malaysia,.... All frequencies are appears to be fully utilised. No adjacent frequency interference, as perhaps due to further distance away from 2 transmitters from the 2 countries, but what if viewers stay near between Johor and Batam border? Wouldn't they experience adjacent frequency interference that affects signal reception?

Anyhow, do you think Singapore will "volunteer to voice out" when discuss with the 3 countries during the discussion of frequency retune exercise being carried out together with 3 countries, saying that they want to use the lowest UHF frequency for their DTT, which will be 474MHz, 490MHz, 506MHz, 522MHz to achieve best signal reception possible?

If "skip" each channel like this, then how about 482MHz, 498MHz, 514MHz, 530MHz? Leave it vacant or what?

QUOTE
Also all wireless frequency plans has to be discussed and done between 3 countries, so that each country will get its own exclusive frequency (like those used for DTT,DAB,FM) and to avoid interference (Mobile phone services, Public services like Police, Fire and DTT,DAB,FM).
How irony. Look at the interference of TV1 vs RTV, and also myFreeview (Malaysia DTT) vs SCTV.
If properly done and discussed, how come interference like this can happen? Who should held responsible?

This post has been edited by joshhd: Jan 31 2019, 10:52 PM
joshhd
post Jan 31 2019, 10:55 PM

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QUOTE(work_tgr @ Jan 31 2019, 03:09 PM)
I gave up with MYTV as signal reception here in Sibu Sarawak is too weak and unsteady. I use satellite and TVbox(but government is going to ban it 🙄)
*
You aim at which satellite to watch what channels?
And btw, Malaysia FTA channels is sucks. It is considered normal for a Malaysian to not watch those channels.
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post Feb 1 2019, 03:29 PM

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QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Feb 1 2019, 12:45 AM)
After 1 month of notification regarding analogue closure, all analogue TV terrestial transmissions from Singapore had been stopped. Only snow can be seen on these frequencies. (this also means all co channel interference issues on analogue TV1, TV3 and MYTV MUX 1 from Gunung Ledang has ceased too)

SCTV was reappeared on TV screens in Johor Bahru, as Gunung Pulai DTT (and the whole of Southern Region too) is currently down.

Update : Both multiplexes (CH47/682MHz and CH49/698MHz) had since been recovered. SCTV from Batam (679.25MHz) is no longer receiveable.
*
2 Jan 2019 = Singapore Analogue TV ceased message appears. Starhub Analogue Cable Point went blackout (dead air, with black video and no audio, but signal is still there).
1 Feb 2019 = Singapore Analogue TV signals completely shuts off.

How about Starhub analogue cable point? Now still dead air, or no signal already?

Thank you for the update. thumbup.gif thumbup.gif
joshhd
post Feb 1 2019, 07:32 PM

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QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Feb 1 2019, 01:29 AM)
Just a guy who are quite interested on technical parameters, I do not work on the industry.

Power calculation is based on the calculations done on http://www.saschateichmann.de/dvb-t-hf.html

I think the usage of 256QAM may be okay for MYTV, especially if they wish/need to carry more services within one multiplex. As MYTV is currently carrying 4 HDTV + 8 SDTV + 6 Radio channels on their one and only multiplex, it is still much more efficient than analogue TV and Mediacorp's DTT despite the usage of 256QAM. It may be not so praticial for MYTV to use 16QAM or 64QAM instead, especially if they need to broadcast more services at reasonable quality, since they currently only have 3 frequencies allocated by MCMC for now. It is wise for Mediacorp to use 4 multiplexes on 16QAM rather than 2 multiplexes on 256QAM as Mediacorp dosen't have plans to provide additional TV services, or even extend broadcast hours for/make them fully 24/7 for their 4 remaining TV services which doesn't have 24/7 schedule.

Adjacent frequency interference can be an issue, especially if the used power is too high. I think that Mediacorp had done some protection between both analogue and digital TV terrestial transmissions when they plan DTT (which is now no longer required, the analogue transmitters had been all shut down).  Interference (from adjacent NTV7) could be sometimes seen on RCTI channel, sometimes as far at Batam as the transmitter power for NTV7 is much higher. Indonesian TV is usually transmitted in lower power than Malaysian TV, so Indonesian channels are unlikely be receivable in Malaysia side other than RCTI and SCTV (which the reception for both are no longer possible as RCTI is transmitting in lower power due to transmitter issues, while SCTV is "blocked" by interference by MYTV DTT.)

Very likely not, as Singapore has 12 exclusive channels to use. Malaysia (JB) and Indonesia (Batam) would only have 5 exclusive (after considering 700MHz clearance) and 6 shared channels. Those "skipped" channels would be likely vacant for other DTT services in the future (like UHDTV).

I would blame both Kominfo Indonesia and SKMM for the interference of TV1 vs RTV, and also myFreeview (Malaysia DTT) vs SCTV.
*
QUOTE
since they currently only have 3 frequencies allocated by MCMC for now......especially if they need to broadcast more services at reasonable quality,
Oh is it? So it is not MYTV themselves to decide what frequency they use?? And "reasonable quality"? Lol, is that why they use pretty low video/audio bitrate? Aren't they should use higher bitrate cuz it is an official DTT platform, where video/audio quality should be "the best" as it is the only way for viewer to enjoy digital quality (incl. HD quality) channels for free from channel provider, rather than just "good enough"... Just like Thailand and Singapore DTT.

QUOTE
I think that Mediacorp had done some protection between both analogue and digital TV terrestial transmissions when they plan DTT (which is now no longer required, the analogue transmitters had been all shut down).
With the analogue signals has completely switched off, what could Singapore do next on their existing DTT frequencies? I believe they can properly utilise entire 8MHz bandwidth for each mux now, as what I see, they don't fully utilise entire 8MHz bandwidth to prevent interference with their analogue channels. Do you think they will place more HD channel per mux, to reduce the number of mux used?

Such as, Channel U (HD) to replace existing Channel U (SD) on 570MHz, hence eliminating 586MHz that airs only Channel U (HD) now, so they can reduce 4 to 3 multiplexes, hence uses 1 multiplex less, lesser transmitting power, and eventually save cost?
Or, they could just leave it as it is, and don't bother?

I mean, really? Each 16QAM multiplex can only carry 2 HD channels max?

QUOTE
Singapore has 12 exclusive channels to use. Malaysia (JB) and Indonesia (Batam) would only have 5 exclusive (after considering 700MHz clearance) and 6 shared channels. Those "skipped" channels would be likely vacant for other DTT services in the future (like UHDTV).
Which are the 12 channels for Singapore? Got so many meh?

Actually, when 3 countries discuss on which frequencies to allocate, usually they will divide 470-790MHz (analogue) and 470-698MHz (digital) equally into 3 parts, or it depends on which country need more channels = more frequencies? Indonesia has more FTA channels, don't you think? Shouldn't they get allocated more frequencies/channels?

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