My friend encourage me to open kopitiam with those hawkers food stall. I'm still planning on it to setup it like just sell drinks and rent out the stalls and another option is selling drink and own all the stall with hire people to cook. Thinking to invest for rm200k. If here got anyone running on this business will appreciate if you can give some opinion.

Be prepared for headaches and also lack of sleep. These comes with the territory. I don't know whether your venue will be a new housing area or an old area. If it is an old area, I am sure there are many others in the same area . Usually it will be a corner lot,hence a very high rental. Those stalls can be purchased second hand or new. How many stalls are you planning to set up and are they going to be divided into a morning and a night session (hence your lack of sleep). Operating all the stalls yourself is not a bad thing but then manning the stalls will obviously be Myanmarese. This in some way will deter alot of customers.

Coffee/Tea brewer is important. Very! Don't under estimate the importance of his role especially in the mornings where people usually take hot drinks. If you rent the stalls out, you have to specifically categorised their food. Fish ball means fish ball and not later one will say a few customers requested for pork balls and he starts selling it too. It happens too many times and it goes into arguments where you will be in the middle. Then there's a wanton mee seller selling clear soup noodle stealthily. I once operated a chicken /char siew rice and as in KL, curry mee seller have 'pak cham kai' as a condiment. Then he starts selling his chicken by the quarters and halfs. This all will alway go into arguments. Then the stalls will move into camps and there will be endless squabbles. It's part of chinese kopitiam.

Then you have to arrange food handling courses, vaccinations and workers. So, which part of town are you planning?

Thanks for reply. Still in planning and venue also haven't decided. Wanna collect the opinion from those are running this business and experience people like you. In my plan I will run the business in morning till afternoon not for nite shift. Will really plan for something really can earn for short time like those really famous chicken rice shop or pan mee shop they can finish by noon no need to open till nite unless your food really sucks. May be I will operate for few stall that I really confident that I can cook. The rest will rent out but with the term and condition the food must have some quality for me to attract for customer to the shop.

Usually in places like KL/PJ where rentals are high, you need to maximise opening hours so the rental to operating hours ratio becomes less. That's why in most coffeeshops, they have others to take over night shift or vice versa. Unless off course the property is your own or belongs to your parents. In KL/PJ to become famous is actually hard. Consensus here is, people tend to be a bit arrogant. When you serve something good, they always have others that are nicer I think to gain their loyalty is a better option. It means you have to become friends or try to pretend to be so that they will patronise you daily. Sad, but that's the way it is here. Customers here wants to be praised and look highly upon.

Usually, stall belonging to the owners are only one, usually their best like chicken/pork rice or chap fan or something of their speciality. If you have more than one, there won't be harmony among the stalls. Problem is when you enquire about drinks, (you will be the first person to approach the customers) and they start enquiring about food, you will, by instinct recommend yours first. This will in some way be unfair to other stalls. Just operate one or at least try to pretend your stall is only one even though you might be operating a few.

If you can prepare many dishes, why start a kopitiam. Why not a specialised store ( or 'chin mun tim' as they say here)? You capital outlay will be much lower and you don't need a corner shop lot for this. Corner lots in Mahkota Cheras is averagely 11K to 13K, Intermediete is 3K to 4K. An intermediete lot willdo. Just look at D'sara Uptown. They have a specialised nasi lemak store, a 'pan mian' specialised store, a specialised chicken rice store etc.etc. I can guarantee you this though through my experience. Handling 10 hawkers is HELL ! Each have different attitudes with each having different levels of rebelliousness. Most are not educated and most are also doing it as the last resort with nothing else to do.

Those stainless steel equipments dealer are also BIG SHARKS! When I started in KL, I tried chicken/roasted pork rice and I have my equipments. First few months I failed to get the required turnover so I decided to change to noodles. Yah! people always say, noodles is the best, low capital and high profits. That is if you sell more than 70 bowls a day. So, when I change to noodles I traded in my apollo oven, plates, stoves etc, One day I went back to the stainless steel guy and saw my apollo oven there and enquired how much is it selling? The boss was not in and the staff did not recognised me. For something that they bought at RM250 now they are selling RM1000. So, if you were to buy second hand equipments, this is a guideline to what level you can bargain with them.

bro since you are so experience of doing this business may be we can be partner. My doubt here still are the capital is it enough to run the business with rm200k included reno and new setup with equipments. I think I will more selective if wanna rent out the stall. If not same vision as mine I rather not rent it out as my vision not just to open a normal kopitiam. I would like to open like franchise with lot of branches. If our vision is same why not we be partner.

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Added on March 27, 2011, 8:13 pmI got 1 vision is open kopitiam to make more income then rather working as employee. If anybody have the same vision I don't see why not we be partner as long you can contribute and help to make profit to the business. I believe success not depend to 1 person only. Is like "Water Margin" all the warriors came from different place and different background but they have a same vision to upright justice thing for the people bully by the bad people.

This post has been edited by jimmyysk: Mar 27 2011, 08:13 PM

Thanks for the offer but I don't really have any more capital to splurge. I have decided to either work for someone or just semi retire to Cameron Highlands where it is not so hectic. I better slow down. Unless you want to share an outlet in Cameron, I might consider.

Sound like you are moving to retire. I don't mind to rent out the free stall for you if your food stall can attract customer to my shop. I will more concern on the drink as the major business for the kopitiam. Cameron may be too far and out of my plan. What kind of food you run before or can cook may be I willing to pay if you can teach? I'm frankly speaking not familiar with this business and currently working in computer line.

Kopitiam system is pretty simple but request a lot hard work, but some ppl able to skip the hard work and the shop still running well, anything is manageable just depend how u look at it and how well u understand the business model ......

rm 200k ain't big for kopitiam but good enough for everything, can't afford new ? take over some used kopitiam lor ......

Bro sound like you quite familiar what make you said not enough for rm200k to setup a kopitiam. Than how much do you think is enough?

If KL, rental and renovation can kill you ... worst, DBKL and MPPPJ will kill you too, cause they don't have guide line for you to follow (suck right) but no choice, this is their way ........

Although taking over kopitiams is the normal practice, I don't find it very favourable. Usually those who let go are the ones that have partially if not all destroyed the potential of the kopitiam. The initial operators would have failed else they won't let it go. Usually, the reasons can be unable to cope with workload, too much squabbles, too dirty, unable to control or retain good workers, fights after drinking and a lot many more reasons. Things that should be avoided in the first place. It is already hard to make the place a success and it is three times harder to correct one that has been tarnished. They are usually cheaper than setting up a new one.

Then again it all depends, if the location is good it may fail because of bad management and if you still feel it still can be rivived, you must closed it for a week and do minor renovations like painting and cleaning just to make sure potential customers knows a new management is taking over. Also you must be prepared for older stalls moving away because your new ways might not be to thier liking, like the use of water especially. I have seen som leave because the old owner allows the stall holder to use ice but the new ones don't. Then there are those who don't shut off the tap and the water flow wasting it. Then there are those who won't reprimand their staffs hygeine.

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Added on March 28, 2011, 12:11 pm Actually not fully retire but to escape from the competition here. I have came down here with a substantial amount of savings and hoped to add a bit more so I can go back to operate my own without partners. Then I failed miserably and exhaust the savings as well. That's why I don't have much confidence in hawking, maybe I doing it in the wrong places. My speciality is actually western food and also 'siew lap fan'. In the course of doing F&B I have also learned curry mee, prawn mee, lam mee or lor mee and 'sam kan chong'. I can do 'siew chow' and wanton mian but they are still not up to par yet, my own standards, off course.

Let me know if you are interested in learning but I must warn you though, cooking is an art first and vocation second. Just like art, if you are you are and if you are not you are not! I can prepare the same ingredients and condiments and show you step by step and yet yours and mine will definately differ.

This post has been edited by etigge: Apr 24 2011, 05:36 PM

I'm more prefer to setup new rather than take over from someone. I prefer more system and modern style not really like ah pak (uncle) those days just open and people come to eat without care about hygiene, shop environment and etc. I more like to have good environment, affordable price food, quality food, and good environment people will few comfortable when they come dine-in. Not like some shop go inside very crowded and surrounded by the stalls and feel very hot. I will like to have and alternative second floor where people can eat and few more comfortable with air-con. This is my plan and my view.

Then that's not your typical chinese kopitiam d. That's... a restaurant?

Cost will be higher, and you'll surely be passing on some of the costs to customers, thus increasing your price to be slightly higher than chinese kopitiam.

What's wrong with operating a typical chinese kopitiam? From the way I see it, it's quite profitable, customer turnover is high (ie: people fast fast eat d then go, then new crowd will come in, the cycle goes on), lower operating costs, and can attract people since food is cheap and rather straight forward.

You have to work equally hard anyway if you're to open a restaurant rather than kopitiam. So... why the preference?

I will operate like typical kopitiam but with more systematic and modern management. Please sharing your experience in operating such typical kopitiam as I got none experience.

Let's say there are people who are interested to learn your knowledge & experience. How & where do you plan to teach?

Hi SonnyCooL,

Do you mind to elobrate more on the "DBKL and MPPJ killing you" part? Are you saying that there are alot of undertable stuffs going on?

We can meet up and discuss about it. I can go over to their place and teach there.

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Added on March 30, 2011, 3:31 amFirst the company registration has to be done. Then license application which needs a sample drawing of the signboard, the shop's layout, photos of the shop interior and exterior, permisssion letter from landlord or the rental agreement, the location plan of the shop and in some local councils the latest quit rent receipt(photocopy). At least 2 fire extinguisher with Bomba certification hung on the wall visible.

This post has been edited by etigge: Mar 30 2011, 03:31 AM

If you are an educated person, you dun need a 'runner' to do the application & the needful stuff.
They have a booklet & you just follow the rules can already. No need under, over or on the table hanky panky.

Once you start the hanky panky stuff, these & other vultures will come knocking - sponsor this la and that la. Clubs, magazines, events dll!

Very true. Go the the Dewan Bandaran or Municipality get the forms and there will be a check list on the first page. Complete the check list and give them no excuses to slow you down. Ask very specificaly how long will it take. If they don't process it on time, go ahead and start operation. If they come checking, you have an excuse and harass the municipality office time to time. Hanky Pankies usually happens to chinese outlets. There's a SOP regarding this and most chinese don't follow this SOP.

This post has been edited by etigge: Mar 30 2011, 10:19 AM

I'm seriously interested in learning and I can cook a bit. Please PM me with the course fee and venue as I don't have place to cook. Please let know when are the convenient time to start. Good for me to learn before really going to open the kopitiam. I'n not so worry about the licensing as I got runner to do it. The main concern are more on the food preparation if I wanna to fully operate by my own.

^
I think most people who are interested to start, don't have a proper or established venue to practise yet (assuming those who have actually started did at least this part of their homework already). That's why I'm wondering how are we gonna learn as well.

you dont have to have a state of the art facilities to learn how to cook, I am learning how to cook as well, since I stay in rented place and there is no kitchen facilities here(eat out everyday), so I bough a gas tong, a stove, few cooking equipments and thats it, I dont even have a fridge. and still these are some of the foods that I manage to cook.



there are still many more (30++) dishes that I manage to learn how to cook with simple equipments.

Worst case senario: learn in someone house's kitchen

Hey, bro don't waste your talent of cooking 30+ dishes may open mixed rice stall oledi. Are you interested to open up your own stall?

yeah I do plan to open up my own stall, still in consideration stage...

Very enterprising and wise to actually learn before starting. A start is better than no start. In commercial kitchens what type of food also depends on what type of heating appliances is needed. A normal stove can cook like those you are trying on. We were talking about roast pork, char siew and that takes different type of cooking technique. The marinating, the tenderising, which medium you want to use, charcoal fired or gas fires. Off course charcoal fired are the best tasting ones but will you be willing to sacrifice the extra effort needed to use that.

Then dishes like Char Koay Teow. Yes, we can learn and teach using normal kitchen stoves but the most important factor in a good CKT is the intense heat. It actually takes 2 minutes to fry a plate of CKT but you must be skilled to fry something in a flame that intense. When I see a hawker selling CKT frying with heat that I can't hear (high pressure stoves have whooshing sound), I will skip the CKT. If you intend to learn this, then it is worthwhile to buy the equipment and practice until it becomes second nature to you. You cannot start using such equipments on opening day or a few days before opening and then starts to fumble big time (I see this very commonly as they didn't anticipate the crowd) and spoils the quality of the food.

Even myself has experience this. I was a replacement for a restaurant and the restaurant uses a type of high presssured stove call 'cannon stove'. I know this stove but never uses them. I didn't do a good job because I kept slowing down the heat or taking the wok away from the stove while cooking as I was not use to those stoves. My point is, home kitchen is way way different from commercial cooking.

Do you know that even blanching noodle needs skill? It seems easy right, just take mee or beehon or kway teow, blanch it. Most hawker actually does it wrong but it does makes a difference if done correctly. This is why you see in some stalls, when the mother is blanching, it tasted differently when her son is blanching. This is especially true in wanton noodle but it does happened in other noodles.

Agree as what you said cause my mum make the Wonton noodle tasty than what I made at home.


Everyone are welcome to share your experience don't look down your own. Doesn't mean we must have experience wok in big big restaurant only can cook nice food. Small cook at home also can cook nice food. I believe more people can share here, we can gather and open our own kopitiam with successful result and long run in future not just limit to 1 shop it may be grow like mushroom this is what I wish and look for same idea people as me.

I use to work as cashier in a chinese take away shop while i was working in england...the chef cook our meal but for supper we cook ourself, so I got the chance to use the cannon stove..."wooofff wooooofff!!!!" the fire sound alone makes me scared..but after seeing the chef cook for few month...i know a little bit of dai chow skill also

I am a good observer

Talent in cook la don't waste it can earn penny if you really got plan. May be we can be partner who know.

I am in sabah tho...

well worse comes to worst if my plan to open here in sabah didnt work out...may be i will fly over there and we will work something out

When I was in the UK, I was learning to cook fried rice and noodles in Jap cum Chinese restaurant but not for long, changed job to fine dining open kitchen restaurant. Use high powered induction pula.

I know these wok stoves as well. You have to learn how to "tarik wok". Wok yang ditarik must not be noisy. If you tarik with loud "kiang kiang" sound whether the bottom of the wok hits the stove or your laddle ketuk ketuk the wok, you gonna get scolding from the head chef. Oh, I also learn to use the knee to control the fire.

This post has been edited by katopunk: Apr 1 2011, 12:51 AM

yeah the tarik skill is definitely fun skill to learn. still in england? how long did you stay there? work as legal or illegal?

Sounds fun right? Why shouldn't cooking be fun? Easiest way to practice 'tarik wok' , flipping the food is to place an empty plastic or melamine plate in the wok and start pulling and flipping until every pull, the plate must flip. The less pull you use to flip the plate, the better it is. As for the 'kiang kiang' sound , it depends. If you ask a street vendor to quiet down , they can never do it. I seen some who change wok every few months and sometimes you see their woks like being run over by a lorry. For those in the hotel and cafe, we have to learn to flick without the wok sitting on the stove support. So, it is quiet. Some cooks like to do some show, they like to display their 'fire skill' The customers will go 'waaaahh' but all this adds showmanship to a cook.

I must admire the olden day cooks. They never used woks with handles found so common nowadays. They always use cast iron woks which are heavy and at times 16 inches ones. They used folded newspapers to shield the heat on the wok's ear and they 'tarik' so fluidly.

Now like discussing skill before start up business. Interesting how I hope we can show it now like those days in the street lot of people surrounding in circle watching street kung fu acrobatic.

Good luck guys. Before I did thought of opening kopitiam but after considering long hours need to be spent on the shop and many headaches so decided to put my plan on hold. Still I believe kopitiam has the high margin and worth the time spent.

sorry to hijack your tread ya lol

but wished to know the budget required to open a very basic kopitiam.

other than chap fan, I just thought of trying to do mamak style kopitiam...something like SS2 murni...cooking a mixture of chinese and malay cuisine, roti canai, serve no pork, and have projector and screen for customers to watch footie and wrestling..

how much budget needed ah? kitchen equipment I can get by paying installment tho..2 partners working in the shop also..

initial capital

rental + deposit 10k
renovation 10k-15k
tables and chairs 5k
cookeries 2k
cost of raw food 3-5k

kitchen equipment 2k(monthly)

anything to add on?

I think you oledi calculated the amount rite and how come to KL to make big buck rather than at east coast. We can sit down and plan, more people can do big business. Just my 2 cent view.

I don't know about East Malaysia but if here, the renovation amount you planned is a bit short. First thing is plumbing and then wiring. You definately needs more fan points and lighting points. Maybe you have a friend or you can do yourself. Then tiling of the floor and the minimum 5 feet tiled walls. We take a 20' X 60' feet shop as example. That's 1200 sq.ft and plus another 600 sq.ft onto the walls, totalled up to 1800 sq. ft of tiling. Here the labour charges is RM3.50 to RM4 per sq.ft and even if we choose the cheapest left over tiles, let's say a bargain with mixing all colours, RM1.50 per sq. ft. That's RM9000 already. Your chap fan 'bain marie' will cost RM2000 second hand and another stall for mee goreng, another RM1,500. Then the 3 lobang stove cost about RM1000, another RM600 for the single lobang for your mee goreng. You might do a little painting after renovations, there's still the cost of the signboard, the menu to be displayed interior, a fruit juicer for fruit juice, a commercial rice cooker, a blender ( I am sure you are not going to use batu giling, ),even glasses cost RM2.50 each,100 of them is RM250, tea cups and saucer, etc etc and another thousand of little minute things that needs to be bought.

Initial stocking will go into the thousands, don't be suprised as everthing is zero. If you are selling beer and cigarettes then it is way way more.

I suggest you make those instalments in a one time thing. Buy cash on only what's needed. Compared to renovations their cost is lower. You buy equipments one after another when business is OK or better. 30 days comes very very fast when things are not going your way.

This post has been edited by etigge: Apr 1 2011, 04:09 PM

thanks for the feed back, as for start, every thing will be the most basic stuff, may be we wont put wall tiles first, and very basic lightings .( not so much on interior as we plan to have our main dining area out side wathing projectors) again, hows the rules and regulations regarding setting up tables outside premises? anyone knows? what if we set up tables on the parking space outside our shop? are we allow to do that? then if its raining how ?


what do you mean by "I suggest you make those instalments in a one time thing" ?
those chap fan/ nasi campur bain marie, roti canai station, water making station and other stand alone work and cooking station can be bought new by installment , better than fork out cash to buy 2nd hand stuff I think.

since its supposed to be halal so not selling any beers lol, but we do like the idea of selling beers, may in the future when we have different restaurant concept. labour charge wise we can get cheap because we hire those illlegal indons to do the job lol. painting we will do our self, wiring point we budget at less than 2k (no fancy lightings, just normal florescent lights and cheap ceiling fan), got friend open electrical appliances so can buy projector via installment as well.

KL is may rosy but for every successful restauranteur there are 100 of them paving the graveyard, as the chinese proverb says. We don't hear about them or see them but they are there. There are so many who did not plan properly, didn't forecasted well, started with no skilled and depending on others and hung in the end by them eventually. Even myself, failed a few times. Take a drive and visit those second hand stainless steel stall yards. Where did they get them? Bigs bucks means busy busy kopitiam, right, busy, busy kopitiam means ,many many workers. Many, many workers equals to big, big headache. Busy, busy also taxs the cook, the stalls, the coffee brewer heavily. The balance of nature is always there, nobody can change the equillibrium, no matter how good you are. When there is good, you bound to have bad. It is a matter of how do we handle the bad. Handle it well, then success is yours.

In small towns, it is a more laidback nature. Off course, meal times is still the main time but customers tend to flow in rather than pours in like here in KL. In places where there are factories and offices, only those well oiled operations can make it. When they have 150 seats, they make sure the workers can handle the 150 people at one time. I have witnessed so many understaffed restaurants failed to serve the guest. Once tempers fly, some workers even just walked off after getting a scolding. Temperament is also importnant, holding your cool. In small towns, the hours are longer, the variations of food is myriad (so we can hold on to the same customers twice or even thrice a day) but they are more relaxing.

Bigger doesn't mean better. I for one would rather earn steadily for a decade than to earn big bucks but 'can't tahan' for 2 years because too stressful and taxing. Understand food business, you are dealing with variations of personal taste as many as the numbers of customers you are serving.

regarding open at small town, the set back is that the crowd during the night( after 8pm) is very little, I currently staye in a small town, here its like a ghost town at night, while we want to maximize our operation time serving day till night. ofcourse it will be stressfull and tiring and taxing...but when we see lots of money coming in, hopw it will cover the tiredness lol..may be we will start to slow down, not so aggresive and bit relax.

This post has been edited by ah_suknat: Apr 1 2011, 04:33 PM

You must remember though, depending on area, wall tiles will be noted when licence is approved. You are just giving excuses for them to delay or harass. If you have a kitchen area, then it is more critical that you have to pave them. Sitting outside , actually they don't allow but most if not all use the belakang way. The enforcements makes more money during World Cup, go figure. They can't do much because most have already accepted bribes for many others around the area. So, they come, tell you so and you say, "lain kali, tak buat." Still, the next day you do it or until you catch their routine, you usually can or the others in the area (those that given bribes) will tell you that they are coming. Once in a while they will really put all your chairs and your tables onto their lorries and after writing a summon you can claim it back the next day.

I think you are over forecasting your sales, hence the numbers of equipments you are buying on instalments. Usually for a restaurant, we only break even if we are lucky for the first few months till a year. We only see profits after a year. There will so many things that still needed to be bought and updated. I would say, it is quite risky.

1. Before you start anything, you need to submit your renovation plan to local council for approval before you start renovating anything. If you start renovation without approval, they will stop all your site work. Then your headache begins.

2. Wall tiles are compulsory requirement. (that why they need you to submit your renovation plan)

3. Setting tables outside the premise requires approval from local council. However, you are required to pay monthly fees to the local council as the fees to rent the walkway by putting your tables and chairs outside.

More sharing are welcome.

Which do you think to be the priority in sequences?

1. Capital

2. Location for business

3. Cooking skill

4. Experience


5. None of above like me

my pick would be

1) location - as the general rule of thumb for all businesses, its location, location, location. good location as in high flow of traffic, near to your target market, car park availability, rental rates, etc etc
without good location, no matter how good your food is, people wont go there every single day. may be once a week or so.

2) Capital - you need money to start a business, other wise any one would have started one.

3) Experience - Experience can be learned, every one started and learn from zero, and even experience restaurateur makes mistakes, so its ok to make mistake. of course, some experience in F&B prior to throwing your hard earn cash in before starting your own restaurant will always be a good idea.

4) cooking skills - unless you have money to hire and keep the chef, you dont even have to learn how to cook, even if you know how to cook, you wont even have the time to cook as you need all you time to manage the business like purchashing, employee management, money management, marketing, etc etc. cooking and other labour job leave it to the employees to do.

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Added on April 1, 2011, 10:55 pmthanks for the reply yek, didnt know wall tiles are compulsory, but some kopitiam I also dont see they put up wall tiles
as long as they allowed us to set up tables outside, little payments are worth it

by the way, I saw an ads in mudah got people selling flat land in kundasang, you might want to check it out http://www.mudah.my/Tanah+CL+2+ekar+di+Kundasang-9150089.htm

This post has been edited by ah_suknat: Apr 1 2011, 10:55 PM

I am back to Malaysia. I was there on 2 years working holiday visa. I do not want to damage my reputation. So I came back to Malaysia upon my visa's expiry. I did not save up much when I was there. Just enough to clear off some of my debts when I got back.

I have been thinking much about setting up my own business since I came back from the UK. Even I have bought alot of cook books over there and shipped it back. Right now, I am all alone. I tend to procrastinate on the planning part. Of which I think I will need a friend partner to push each other to make the idea works.

On the capital part I think I will have some problem. It will not be enough. Do you think for a fresh startup business the bank will provide business loan facility to me? (Assume that I already have my business plan in hand with all the forecast, cash flow, estimated ROI and etc)

its good to hear atleast you have the initiative to learn how to cook.

unfortunately, I dont think you have a good chance to secure a loan, it will be hard, especially for start ups. you can still though, no harm done

Bank is smart if you got nothing to give them like mortgage your house or car they will definitely wouldn't approve loan for you. I had try to apply loan to setup business long time ago but unsuccessful. I believe if you got a wish they is a way. Me also know nothing about cook and got limited capital but still wish that can open a kopitiam cause so far this the business I can foresee still can make money and demanding. A lot of things still need to be concern like the foods whether people will like it or not, location or people who you are targeting come to eat, capital, etc. I still believe the capital will be the last option for me cause if you know how to cook a nice food no matter how bad your stall or shop or how far the place is people will still can find and eat. May be we need to gather those are really interested to setup a kopitiam to brainstorm exchange some idea and lastly we can open up a perfectly kopitiam with sharing capital. The only main concern here is the trust.

In a city like KL where money is the first priority (most kids were taught the importance of money, sadly) trust is not reliable. Sad to say also, most of them in food business because of the money they dream of making and making passion for food comes second is there are any passion at all. It's a sad fact but nobody can be blamed. In food business, where most expenses are not routinely the same as foodstuffs prices fluctuates like the share market. You have to have very very very very close trust to actually be a partner. Either that or evrything must be billed and suppliers known to all partners. That is a very exhausting criteria. Everytime when you down to the market, you ask a prawn seller for receipt, then a vege seller for a receipt then a towfoo seller for a receipt then it become so tedious to you and the seller it becomes a total bore! That's why, cafes and restaurants prefers suppliers even if the goods is a bit more expensive than the markets. Easier to audit and more reliable. Your suppler will make the trouble to find the goods even if there is a shortage

No matter how close anyone can be, in F&B there are no such things are no arguments. Even waiters in the restaurant with their own jobs will argue when it is busy. There are also no fixed scope of jobs. Dividing jobs is just a matter of saying but whent he crunch comes you still have to do other jobs as well, even dish washing. If you are one who 'kira' too much, I suggest doing it on your own. If not eventually the partnership will crack open and both will lose.

I also had a partner once, a dormant partner. I am the salary earning partner because I also manage and work as the chef. Both pump in money and got it operated. Everyday she will call and ask what's the sales and what's the profit? Then after deducting salaries and expenses, the profit was RM800, actually good as a start. She gets RM400 that month and I got RM2400, why? RM2000 was my salary as agreed. After another month, same thing and then suddenly it dawns to her that I am getting more than her while the partnership was equal. She forgets that she sits and call while I have to work 12 hours a day. After another month she says, she wants out!

I said I can't afford to buy her share and she suggested that I find someone or just 'tapow' the shop and sell off the equipments. Then you know what she did? She took the registration and took a loan from a moneylender. The payments exactlly like what I have promised her. She then ask the money lender to collect from the cafe daily. It makes me look like a 'pariah' with moneylenders hanging around daily. You know lah! morally inside you are so angry and you lose mood and finally I sold off the venture and settle the moneylender. I feel safer even if I lost my share of the venture. Anything can happen in partnerships. Like like husbands and wifes, it will turn real ugly if cracks starts to appear. Think again before joining as partners especially in food business. Even brothers goes to court fighting for the name the common father built like Him Heang biscuits in Penang.

I totally understand how you feel man, because I am facing the same partnership problem as well, worse is, the partnership is between me and my sister. except, I am the one who request to go out of the business and demand my share to be taken back, since she's my sister, I just take it slowly by slowly even though I need the money to run another business which is this kopitiam business. but what to do? I cant get loan from money lender and ask them to harrass my sister right?

eventhough there is confrontation, still I have a principal and I wont be such a bad person. usually, most of the time I am the pity one.

but still, I believe partnership can work, provided all partners trust each other and have faith in the business with the right attitude.

This post has been edited by ah_suknat: Apr 4 2011, 08:29 PM

wat is the ball park figure you are looking at?
Are you married? Is your spouse a Malaysian?

DarkNite,

I have yet to research on the suppliers (food, equipments, furniture and reno) and premise pricing. So I cannot give you a concrete answer. But I am guestimate the figure will go to about 150k or more. Oh yes, I am looking at something like this http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=11861...35444&aid=19186

And I am not married yet.

that is some high class coffee shop...normally I wont go inside

We are sharing more on Old style kopitiam with some normal reno not that modern. Got some hawkers stall selling food type. Anyone here would like to share about making the coffee? May need to look for some sifu know how to make good coffee if setup the business.

I think they mixed the coffee powder and also the tea powder. Good ones larr, off course. Normal ones, they just used from one same supplier. I learned from a Hainanese in Kuala Kangsar who was also an insurance agent. I have to buy a policy from him to make him teach me. I remembered he mixes 4 types of tea powder to get what he wants. One for the good taste, one for colour, another for density, the oomph! and another one dunno liao, forgot. Coffee is easier and Milo nowadays mixed with some cheaper cocoa powder or else cannot tahan the price. For 'ais tea' or 'ais coffee' not so critical but for hot drinks very critical to be consistent.

Like food coffee and tea also subjective. I like a shop here but the people around here says it not good. I went to their places of preference and I find their tea very bitter like "kip". So, one man food is another man's poison.