My friend encourage me to open kopitiam with those hawkers food stall. I'm still planning on it to setup it like just sell drinks and rent out the stalls and another option is selling drink and own all the stall with hire people to cook. Thinking to invest for rm200k. If here got anyone running on this business will appreciate if you can give some opinion.

Be prepared for headaches and also lack of sleep. These comes with the territory. I don't know whether your venue will be a new housing area or an old area. If it is an old area, I am sure there are many others in the same area . Usually it will be a corner lot,hence a very high rental. Those stalls can be purchased second hand or new. How many stalls are you planning to set up and are they going to be divided into a morning and a night session (hence your lack of sleep). Operating all the stalls yourself is not a bad thing but then manning the stalls will obviously be Myanmarese. This in some way will deter alot of customers.

Coffee/Tea brewer is important. Very! Don't under estimate the importance of his role especially in the mornings where people usually take hot drinks. If you rent the stalls out, you have to specifically categorised their food. Fish ball means fish ball and not later one will say a few customers requested for pork balls and he starts selling it too. It happens too many times and it goes into arguments where you will be in the middle. Then there's a wanton mee seller selling clear soup noodle stealthily. I once operated a chicken /char siew rice and as in KL, curry mee seller have 'pak cham kai' as a condiment. Then he starts selling his chicken by the quarters and halfs. This all will alway go into arguments. Then the stalls will move into camps and there will be endless squabbles. It's part of chinese kopitiam.

Then you have to arrange food handling courses, vaccinations and workers. So, which part of town are you planning?

Thanks for reply. Still in planning and venue also haven't decided. Wanna collect the opinion from those are running this business and experience people like you. In my plan I will run the business in morning till afternoon not for nite shift. Will really plan for something really can earn for short time like those really famous chicken rice shop or pan mee shop they can finish by noon no need to open till nite unless your food really sucks. May be I will operate for few stall that I really confident that I can cook. The rest will rent out but with the term and condition the food must have some quality for me to attract for customer to the shop.

Usually in places like KL/PJ where rentals are high, you need to maximise opening hours so the rental to operating hours ratio becomes less. That's why in most coffeeshops, they have others to take over night shift or vice versa. Unless off course the property is your own or belongs to your parents. In KL/PJ to become famous is actually hard. Consensus here is, people tend to be a bit arrogant. When you serve something good, they always have others that are nicer I think to gain their loyalty is a better option. It means you have to become friends or try to pretend to be so that they will patronise you daily. Sad, but that's the way it is here. Customers here wants to be praised and look highly upon.

Usually, stall belonging to the owners are only one, usually their best like chicken/pork rice or chap fan or something of their speciality. If you have more than one, there won't be harmony among the stalls. Problem is when you enquire about drinks, (you will be the first person to approach the customers) and they start enquiring about food, you will, by instinct recommend yours first. This will in some way be unfair to other stalls. Just operate one or at least try to pretend your stall is only one even though you might be operating a few.

If you can prepare many dishes, why start a kopitiam. Why not a specialised store ( or 'chin mun tim' as they say here)? You capital outlay will be much lower and you don't need a corner shop lot for this. Corner lots in Mahkota Cheras is averagely 11K to 13K, Intermediete is 3K to 4K. An intermediete lot willdo. Just look at D'sara Uptown. They have a specialised nasi lemak store, a 'pan mian' specialised store, a specialised chicken rice store etc.etc. I can guarantee you this though through my experience. Handling 10 hawkers is HELL ! Each have different attitudes with each having different levels of rebelliousness. Most are not educated and most are also doing it as the last resort with nothing else to do.

Those stainless steel equipments dealer are also BIG SHARKS! When I started in KL, I tried chicken/roasted pork rice and I have my equipments. First few months I failed to get the required turnover so I decided to change to noodles. Yah! people always say, noodles is the best, low capital and high profits. That is if you sell more than 70 bowls a day. So, when I change to noodles I traded in my apollo oven, plates, stoves etc, One day I went back to the stainless steel guy and saw my apollo oven there and enquired how much is it selling? The boss was not in and the staff did not recognised me. For something that they bought at RM250 now they are selling RM1000. So, if you were to buy second hand equipments, this is a guideline to what level you can bargain with them.

bro since you are so experience of doing this business may be we can be partner. My doubt here still are the capital is it enough to run the business with rm200k included reno and new setup with equipments. I think I will more selective if wanna rent out the stall. If not same vision as mine I rather not rent it out as my vision not just to open a normal kopitiam. I would like to open like franchise with lot of branches. If our vision is same why not we be partner.

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Added on March 27, 2011, 8:13 pmI got 1 vision is open kopitiam to make more income then rather working as employee. If anybody have the same vision I don't see why not we be partner as long you can contribute and help to make profit to the business. I believe success not depend to 1 person only. Is like "Water Margin" all the warriors came from different place and different background but they have a same vision to upright justice thing for the people bully by the bad people.

This post has been edited by jimmyysk: Mar 27 2011, 08:13 PM

Thanks for the offer but I don't really have any more capital to splurge. I have decided to either work for someone or just semi retire to Cameron Highlands where it is not so hectic. I better slow down. Unless you want to share an outlet in Cameron, I might consider.

Sound like you are moving to retire. I don't mind to rent out the free stall for you if your food stall can attract customer to my shop. I will more concern on the drink as the major business for the kopitiam. Cameron may be too far and out of my plan. What kind of food you run before or can cook may be I willing to pay if you can teach? I'm frankly speaking not familiar with this business and currently working in computer line.

Kopitiam system is pretty simple but request a lot hard work, but some ppl able to skip the hard work and the shop still running well, anything is manageable just depend how u look at it and how well u understand the business model ......

rm 200k ain't big for kopitiam but good enough for everything, can't afford new ? take over some used kopitiam lor ......

Bro sound like you quite familiar what make you said not enough for rm200k to setup a kopitiam. Than how much do you think is enough?

If KL, rental and renovation can kill you ... worst, DBKL and MPPPJ will kill you too, cause they don't have guide line for you to follow (suck right) but no choice, this is their way ........

Although taking over kopitiams is the normal practice, I don't find it very favourable. Usually those who let go are the ones that have partially if not all destroyed the potential of the kopitiam. The initial operators would have failed else they won't let it go. Usually, the reasons can be unable to cope with workload, too much squabbles, too dirty, unable to control or retain good workers, fights after drinking and a lot many more reasons. Things that should be avoided in the first place. It is already hard to make the place a success and it is three times harder to correct one that has been tarnished. They are usually cheaper than setting up a new one.

Then again it all depends, if the location is good it may fail because of bad management and if you still feel it still can be rivived, you must closed it for a week and do minor renovations like painting and cleaning just to make sure potential customers knows a new management is taking over. Also you must be prepared for older stalls moving away because your new ways might not be to thier liking, like the use of water especially. I have seen som leave because the old owner allows the stall holder to use ice but the new ones don't. Then there are those who don't shut off the tap and the water flow wasting it. Then there are those who won't reprimand their staffs hygeine.

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Added on March 28, 2011, 12:11 pm Actually not fully retire but to escape from the competition here. I have came down here with a substantial amount of savings and hoped to add a bit more so I can go back to operate my own without partners. Then I failed miserably and exhaust the savings as well. That's why I don't have much confidence in hawking, maybe I doing it in the wrong places. My speciality is actually western food and also 'siew lap fan'. In the course of doing F&B I have also learned curry mee, prawn mee, lam mee or lor mee and 'sam kan chong'. I can do 'siew chow' and wanton mian but they are still not up to par yet, my own standards, off course.

Let me know if you are interested in learning but I must warn you though, cooking is an art first and vocation second. Just like art, if you are you are and if you are not you are not! I can prepare the same ingredients and condiments and show you step by step and yet yours and mine will definately differ.

This post has been edited by etigge: Apr 24 2011, 05:36 PM

I'm more prefer to setup new rather than take over from someone. I prefer more system and modern style not really like ah pak (uncle) those days just open and people come to eat without care about hygiene, shop environment and etc. I more like to have good environment, affordable price food, quality food, and good environment people will few comfortable when they come dine-in. Not like some shop go inside very crowded and surrounded by the stalls and feel very hot. I will like to have and alternative second floor where people can eat and few more comfortable with air-con. This is my plan and my view.

Then that's not your typical chinese kopitiam d. That's... a restaurant?

Cost will be higher, and you'll surely be passing on some of the costs to customers, thus increasing your price to be slightly higher than chinese kopitiam.

What's wrong with operating a typical chinese kopitiam? From the way I see it, it's quite profitable, customer turnover is high (ie: people fast fast eat d then go, then new crowd will come in, the cycle goes on), lower operating costs, and can attract people since food is cheap and rather straight forward.

You have to work equally hard anyway if you're to open a restaurant rather than kopitiam. So... why the preference?

I will operate like typical kopitiam but with more systematic and modern management. Please sharing your experience in operating such typical kopitiam as I got none experience.

Let's say there are people who are interested to learn your knowledge & experience. How & where do you plan to teach?

Hi SonnyCooL,

Do you mind to elobrate more on the "DBKL and MPPJ killing you" part? Are you saying that there are alot of undertable stuffs going on?

We can meet up and discuss about it. I can go over to their place and teach there.

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Added on March 30, 2011, 3:31 amFirst the company registration has to be done. Then license application which needs a sample drawing of the signboard, the shop's layout, photos of the shop interior and exterior, permisssion letter from landlord or the rental agreement, the location plan of the shop and in some local councils the latest quit rent receipt(photocopy). At least 2 fire extinguisher with Bomba certification hung on the wall visible.

This post has been edited by etigge: Mar 30 2011, 03:31 AM

If you are an educated person, you dun need a 'runner' to do the application & the needful stuff.
They have a booklet & you just follow the rules can already. No need under, over or on the table hanky panky.

Once you start the hanky panky stuff, these & other vultures will come knocking - sponsor this la and that la. Clubs, magazines, events dll!

Very true. Go the the Dewan Bandaran or Municipality get the forms and there will be a check list on the first page. Complete the check list and give them no excuses to slow you down. Ask very specificaly how long will it take. If they don't process it on time, go ahead and start operation. If they come checking, you have an excuse and harass the municipality office time to time. Hanky Pankies usually happens to chinese outlets. There's a SOP regarding this and most chinese don't follow this SOP.

This post has been edited by etigge: Mar 30 2011, 10:19 AM

I'm seriously interested in learning and I can cook a bit. Please PM me with the course fee and venue as I don't have place to cook. Please let know when are the convenient time to start. Good for me to learn before really going to open the kopitiam. I'n not so worry about the licensing as I got runner to do it. The main concern are more on the food preparation if I wanna to fully operate by my own.